The Energon Pub

The intention of the 2006 Classics line was to provide a faithful and fun G1-based line that coincidentally had great success and spawned a handful of lines that we have now. Oddly enough, its child Generations continues to dish out a handful of G1 products but has somewhat evolved into something else (I think Generations will start dishing out BW, RID, Armada Anniversary figures, and the 'of Cybertron games')

Then we look at Masterpiece figures, and for Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, and Red Alert - all characters who have been popularly sought out in either Classics, Henkei, Universe or Generations, they have been one-upped by the Masterpiece line. Albeit, it is a significant price upgrade, or at least a double up of the price if looking at it from a Henkei perspective.

Ultimately I guess I'm just wondering what you guys feel personally about your own Classics toys. Is Masterpiece slowly replacing your Classics needs? One cannot deny the fact that Masterpiece will eventually have the entire G1 Season 1 roster slot filled with more accurate and better QC toys. Where do you stand?

I think that for those of us who do not have the budget to allow for Masterpiece purchases, CLassics will always be an important way to get decent, poseable versions of favourite G1 characters, as well as more obscure characters who aren't likely to get Masterpiece figures. I also prefer the scale of Classics figures; Masterpiece figures are very big and though that works for characters like Grimlock and Rodimus Prime, it wouldn't work for all the characters that exist i the Classics lines.

Having said that I'm certainly not opposed to Classics versions of other lines - some updated Armada figures would be extremely welcome from my point of view!

This question is harder than yes or no.Masterpiece is not replacing Generations as having the characters in deluxe scale,but is in a sense of having classic characters done with modern standards.

It kind of is for me. I've decided to get every MP that Takara makes (though I'm skipping exclusive/Diaclone repaints like Tigertracks).

I still love my Classics etc., but they don't quite carry the weight in my collection that they used to for representing the G1 characters.

Don't get me wrong, Henkei Optimus Prime is still one of the very best Optimus Prime toys ever created, but when I look at him and then look at MP-10 I'm reminded that while he is good, MP-10 is absolutely perfect. There's definitely a huge difference there, and not just in price.

So I voted 'Yes', but totally 'Beast Wars for life' . If they start doing good Beast Wars figures in Generations etc., I'd be all over that as well.

pretty much agree with WasPWNator here. I do really like the look of these new MPs, and it's great that we're getting more and more characters. For a while there it looked like it might just be a Prime and Seeker repaint line. For the price, the newer, smaller MPs just about quality as the high-end collectible line that many people have asked for as a response to third parties.

Problems for me are
a)space. They're smaller than the MPs of old, maybe Voyager size and up, but that's still a lot for the smallest characters. I prefer the Deluxe size as the standard bot size, as it means voyagers can be the big guys and anything larger seems huge, but doesn't have to cost the earth to produce. Legends/Cyberverse fit in well with that scale as minibots as well.
b)price. yeah, the smaller newer ones are cheaper. But Sideswipe is about the size of something we'd have gotten a few years back for £20. Now they're twice/three times that. The extra size also adds more to shipping, which as a UK resident is always worth thinking about, due to the random domestic distribution. We're never even guaranteed that all of the Hasbro releases will hit our shores, and then if they are supposed to, we might not see them for months, until they turn up in a dozen shops across the whole country, discounted so much that they last only a few days before vanishing into obscurity again. Classics/Generations/etc are a little better distributed being smaller ticket items that take up less shelf space. More shops carry them and if we do miss out, they're far easier to pick up on the aftermarket usually. (USUALLY >:( GDO Wheelie)
c)diversity. like I said, it's nice to see more characters getting the MP treatment. But given the time it takes for a new mold to come around, and with the aforementioned higher prices it means we're likely to see all repaint options explored with the molds sooner rather than later. No bad thing of course, but even at a rate of 2 or 3 unique molds a year, given the MP line's focus on cartoon accuracy we're going to take a long time to get new posable toys of some of the more obscure characters. Sure, there were maybe 30, 40 billion different versions of Bumblebee over the last decade, but we also got a couple of different Bludgeons, a Straxus, Perceptor, Wreck-Gar (and a generic Junkion...although that's a repaint that could have been done with an MP version just as easy) and even a few Action Master and Micromaster homages. The smaller scale also allows for more specialised versions of characters, like the upcoming IDW inspired Megatron, Orion Pax and the current WFC/FOC line. Take this, along with size compatibility with older lines and you can get a lot more characters into your Transformers toy universe. I'm amazed and excited to be getting a new Metroplex, and I'm sure he'll still look quite big next to an MP, but he's not going to have quite the same impact next one of them compared to a Deluxe or Scout sized guy.



(also, I know it's sort of a dirty word here, but the smaller scale is much better for people who are happy with expanding their collections using 3rd party manufacturers, as most stick more or less within the deluxe-voyager size...imagine the price-tags for a 3rd party trying to make missing characters for an MP collection...think they hurt your wallet now? ha!)


edit: oh, and since Blurrz mentions BW Generations, now that we've got different size classes in the Gen line, I want the BW cartoon cast done in Scout size please!

I'm in total agreement about redoing the Beast Wars line in Scout sizes, with a few Deluxes for the leaders. United Beast Megatron already encapsulates the look perfectly.

As for the topic, I started with the Generations line entirely because of War for Cybertron and have loved more figures with that aesthetic. By presenting itself as a line of varied figures from different continuities, it's very existence is the death knell of theClassics line. The figures aren't all new molds of popular G1 guys...only some of them are. Classics has been dead for a while, with a few new figures echoing what was. Hasbro is moving on, with an occasional bone throw to older collectors in a line specifically designed to run the gamut of multiple continuities.

As for MP, the prohibitive costs prevent it from being a true successor, IMO.

No. I am far more into the modernized redesigns that classics-generations have done.

It totally is- not just my Classics stuff but my BT/Alt stuff too. My only question is whether I sell them all off in one hit, or gradually as MP versions come out.

Bowspearer wrote:It totally is- not just my Classics stuff but my BT/Alt stuff too. My only question is whether I sell them all off in one hit, or gradually as MP versions come out.

I'd suggest gradually, assuming you do decide to sell them. You're likely to make more $ that way and you never know which ones will or will not end up getting the MP treatment.

only problem I can see with waiting til an MP is announced before selling off the Classics styled releases is that there'll be more competition. I've seen a lot more Universe Sideswipe's for sale on ebay since the MP was announced/released and they're selling for less. Likely be the same for Prowl and his repaints (although it does give me hope of snagging a Smokescreen for a lower price than I've seen him usually go for. Fingers crossed for an MP Ramjet )

As to Generations turning into a line that encompasses more than just updated takes on G1 characters? I'm all for that. Lugnut is a fine example of a character that I felt would be a good fit with my Classics 'Cons but the Animated version wouldn't have looked right. My personal Classics collection includes of course, Classics, Universe, Generations and RTS figures, as well as a couple of Prime toys and a fair few 3rd party toys. Whilst a major collecting goal of mine is to complete the Season 3/TFTM cast, I'm happy to pick up others from the G1 toon and comics as well as characters that have been introduced more recently, and I'll often rename newer figures as either brand new characters, or with names reminiscent of older toys that I feel fit the character, despite not always looking like a direct homage. For example, my PCCs and HA Basics are all new characters but they work fine for me in my own personal Classics/G1/overall TF continuity. (the HA's have their human partners and are mostly Autobot, while I have mostly Decepticon PCCs so their Minicons are enslaved or evil minions)

Of course, the way Hasbro reuses names and alt mode/colour palettes mean I sometimes have to get a bit creative, but you know how there've been loads of yellow F1-type cars that look sort of like Dragstrip? Those are other members of the racing team that was around pre-War, and the yellow/purple colours were their team livery.

The ONLY thing I'd use to replace Classics for my "primary display" would be:

1 ) MP-10 Prime
2 ) MP Seekers
3 ) MP Soundwave et al
4 ) Potential new scale MP Megatron (until then, it's the current MP Megs)
5 ) If they make a set of Scout sized MP Minibots. That would utterly rule.

So the entire G1 season 1 roster will see a MP representation...really? I have doubts but maybe most of them but both and complete? It will be a while before we see this.

I think for those who are heavy into MP I can see the possibility of a take over. But to someone like me who just aquired MP King Grimlock (which is an amazing MP) I feel the path for classics/generations TF remains constant and this I like...'nuff said!

Replace? No.
Why do you need to replace them? just buy em all.

But I never plan to replace Classic line. because of those combiners and city size bots, with MP they will be out of scale. And I don't think they will make Omega or Metroplex in the scale that fit MP line.

For me Classics and MP are completely separate.

Classics is my modern (neo?) take on the characters I love from the G1 cartoon (with many non cartoon related toys thrown in for fun ) and I plan to get most of the toys from the first four years if it is ever possible.

Masterpiece is my G1 accurate set that (I assume) will never match the size of my Classics set but will be as complete as I can possibly make it.

As for Beast Wars, I love it!!! It is my favorite TV show ever, but will probably be packing all my beast era toys away at some point due to lack of space and all my available collecting cash going to the other two lines My Beast Wars figures have been on display longer than anything else and has seen every other show line since disappear into boxes, but the other two take priority for now.

Apples and Oranges.
One takes characters and gives them a 21st Century interpretation on the original product.
One takes characters and gives them a 21st Century makeover, as close enough to the original product.
Whch is why I have separate shelves for each.

Classics are toys, MP's are display pieces.

Also, classics do not rust and did not fall apart in the box. They cost 1/5 of the MP's and we'll never see a MP Lugnut, will we?

RhA wrote:Classics are toys, MP's are display pieces.

Also, classics do not rust and did not fall apart in the box. They cost 1/5 of the MP's and we'll never see a MP Lugnut, will we?

Never know, 20 years down the line...

i cant believe people think classics is dying. blitzwing and springer? Metroplex and Scamper? The IDW TFs? and that is not counting the repaints they will have and the ones that have yet to be revealed. classics is far from death.

Doubledealer93 wrote:i cant believe people think classics is dying. blitzwing and springer? Metroplex and Scamper? The IDW TFs? and that is not counting the repaints they will have and the ones that have yet to be revealed. classics is far from death.

I guess it depends on what the individual collects Classics for really.

While there are many (like myself) who like the new takes on G1 (and other) characters, there are many who buy and collect them because they want them to fill in their G1 roster and be as G1 accurate as possible and actually kinda resent a lot of the 'modern' or 'neo' takes on some of the alt modes and character models. For those individuals, I would say if they are collecting the new MP line, then Classics for them is probably dead, or at least dying. Especially if Takara keeps it up and crosses the boundaries of Season 1 as well as things like combiners.

Not really, just because

No. They're two separate lines. I didn't sell off my G1 toys when I started getting my Classics back in 2006.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:No. They're two separate lines. I didn't sell off my G1 toys when I started getting my Classics back in 2006.

Right, but for some people that is not the case. Some collect Classics/Generations etc. because they want faithful representations of the G1 characters using modern engineering (even though most of them aren't very faithful at all in appearance to G1). For those collectors I think, the MP line is right up their ally and will scratch that G1 itch much better than the Classics/Generations line ever did.

I will continue to collect Generations/Classics, however that's simply because I, like yourself, view it as a totally separate line and collect it for different reasons.

For full on perfect representations of G1, the new MP line is where it's at, and so far they're making even the third parties look bad in my opinion.

xyl360 wrote:For full on perfect representations of G1, the new MP line is where it's at, and so far they're making even the third parties look bad in my opinion.

even? They should be making toys that are miles ahead of the third parties. The only reason the 3Ps exist is because the official lines don't have what consumers want. The MP line is doing what a lot of people have asked for. As we're seeing with the prices, a quality product can be made by a larger company in higher numbers for less cost, and Hasbro/Takara have been making these things for 30years, they should be better at it than companies that have only started in this century.

MP line mainly for myself, but that is because my region of Canada doesn't get any great supply of the classics/generations figures. More often than not I have to look at special ordering so the costs for me aren't all that dissimilar.
I do love the quality of figures from takara, but the 3rd party figures are starting to make a big dent in my collection now too. I have terminus hexatron on order because A: It's an amazing looking figure and B: It's actually a lot cheaper to get it as opposed to the re-issue 6 shot.

Blurrz wrote:The intention of the 2006 Classics line was to provide a faithful and fun G1-based line that coincidentally had great success and spawned a handful of lines that we have now. Oddly enough, its child Generations continues to dish out a handful of G1 products but has somewhat evolved into something else (I think Generations will start dishing out BW, RID, Armada Anniversary figures, and the 'of Cybertron games')

Then we look at Masterpiece figures, and for Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, and Red Alert - all characters who have been popularly sought out in either Classics, Henkei, Universe or Generations, they have been one-upped by the Masterpiece line. Albeit, it is a significant price upgrade, or at least a double up of the price if looking at it from a Henkei perspective.

Ultimately I guess I'm just wondering what you guys feel personally about your own Classics toys. Is Masterpiece slowly replacing your Classics needs? One cannot deny the fact that Masterpiece will eventually have the entire G1 Season 1 roster slot filled with more accurate and better QC toys. Where do you stand?

To me, the Classics line and Masterpiece line serve two entirely different purposes so for me, one isn't replacing the other. In fact, neither is replacing G1 needs for me.

Classics basically references classic characters, starting with G1 and then branching out in subsequent sublines/offspring of the Classics line. Classics, from a toy design standpoint, gives G1 characters a modern "reboot". It doesn't really serve to replace G1 or even necessarily fill a need for G1 in one's collection.

The purpose of the Masterpiece line is to essentially provide a properly realized representation of the characters in their ideal form, which is done through modern toy engineering at the highest current level. Unlike all other lower priced Transformers toy lines, the Masterpiece line is not hindered by strict budgetary conditions, namely the parts count guideline. Because of this greater range of freedom, we can have more intricate toy design that gives greater approximation of the vehicle alt mode and humanoid robot mode compared to the original character design/animation model.

So here's what it comes down to for me: There are three basica areas for my G1 and classic character related needs...and there are three overall toy lines that meet these needs for me.

For my nostalgic needs, why would I go with anything else beside the original G1 toys or re-issues such as Encore?

For my "I'd love to see how a classic character would look redesigned for today's aesthetics!" needs, why wouldn't I go with Classics and its offshoot lines?

For my "I'd love to see a high end engineered and designed toy version of a character in their ideal/original form!" needs, why wouldn't I go with Masterpiece?