The Energon Pub

As long as we can get like 5-10 standard issue Classicverse figures for the same prices as a single MP, then Classics will never RIP.

As far as Hasbro and the U.S. market goes, the MP line is practically dead. It's barely on life support.

GuyIncognito wrote:As far as Hasbro and the U.S. market goes, the MP line is practically dead. It's barely on life support.

I think I'm cofused by your statement: haven't they just released Optimus Prime and will be releasing Soundwave?

Va'al wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:As far as Hasbro and the U.S. market goes, the MP line is practically dead. It's barely on life support.

I think I'm cofused by your statement: haven't they just released Optimus Prime and will be releasing Soundwave?

Optimus Prime, Thundercracker and Soundwave. 3 compared to TakaraTomy's 8 (not counting the cassettes)

Va'al wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:As far as Hasbro and the U.S. market goes, the MP line is practically dead. It's barely on life support.

I think I'm cofused by your statement: haven't they just released Optimus Prime and will be releasing Soundwave?

They TECHNICALLY released OP, but have you actually seen one in a store anywhere? They were sold out immediately, and there was a big debacle when TRU had to cancel preorders. Now you can only get them on eBay for like $200.

Soundwave is coming... ? When? And will there be enough to meet demand? We'll see. Probably not.

The MP line is clearly not a priority for Hasbro. That's why I say it's "on life support". They put out just enough to keep the line alive, but enough for it to thrive.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Optimus Prime, Thundercracker and Soundwave. 3 compared to TakaraTomy's 8 (not counting the cassettes)

Exactly, and I don't think you can even count OP, since he didn't get a wide distribution. It was basically a rare, limited-release item.

GuyIncognito wrote:As long as we can get like 5-10 standard issue Classicverse figures for the same prices as a single MP, then Classics will never RIP.

AMEN!

I've seen five OP in my local TRU. In the UK.
£99 each.

I'm still not sure I get your point.
Isn't it good that three figures are being released?

Va'al wrote:I've seen five OP in my local TRU. In the UK.
£99 each.

I'm still not sure I get your point.
Isn't it good that three figures are being released?

It's not just the number of different figures released, but more the actual number of figures delivered to stores. I'm assuming GuyIncognito is in one of the more desolate areas of Transformer toys.

Without reading most of the other replies, in my opinion, no. It's basically this to me:

G1 is G1. Old-school nostalgia, brickish charm, chrome, stickers and whatnot.

Classics are updated, reimagined versions of mostly G1 characters, but can also include classics-verse styled characters from other generations... a 'Best Of', if you will. Example, to me HFTD Lockdown is Animated Lockdown translated into Classics style.

Masterpiece is the ideal version of G1. As close as can be to how the characters appeared in the cartoon and with accurate vehicle modes, and state of the art engineering.

So yeah, two separate things, and I will not be selling off my Classics. Alternators, however, are debateable. But since they have sentimental value due to being a big part of what got me back into TFs, I probably won't.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Va'al wrote:I've seen five OP in my local TRU. In the UK.
£99 each.

I'm still not sure I get your point.
Isn't it good that three figures are being released?

It's not just the number of different figures released, but more the actual number of figures delivered to stores. I'm assuming GuyIncognito is in one of the more desolate areas of Transformer toys.

Oh, ok!
That makes more sense!

I was extremely lucky to be able to get my hasbro MP-10, only because a friend works at the TrU in Calgary. Each store here only got 3 of OP. Thundercracker was only 5 per store.
The rarity of hasbro's releases make it necessary, for me at least to deal with smaller stores that import and will do pre-orders.
The extra cost associated with the takara figures are pretty much the same if I miss out and have to head to ebay, with the exception of a lot less hassle.
As it is, all the different lines will have a place in my collection. I don't see the need to get rid of one in favor of another.

3 'N's. No money, No space, and Not allowed. So Nope.

paul053 wrote:3 'N's. No money, No space, and Not allowed. So Nope.

That honestly makes me want to ask you and others in the US who cite money issues a question. If you were paying international prices for CHUG figures (eg $17 for scouts/cyberverse commanders, $30 for deluxes and $50 for voyagers), would you still be collecting or would you pretty much have to give it up?

Bowspearer wrote:

paul053 wrote:3 'N's. No money, No space, and Not allowed. So Nope.

That honestly makes me want to ask you and others in the US who cite money issues a question. If you were paying international prices for CHUG figures (eg $17 for scouts/cyberverse commanders, $30 for deluxes and $50 for voyagers), would you still be collecting or would you pretty much have to give it up?

Of course, most would. Grumble as they may, the toys break the will and the wallet in the end. Mattel knows how to exploit this...He-man fans love to cry "rape", but still welcome every dirty deed put forth by this company.

Classics is the line I collect the most. Being updated versions of the G1 cast, they look like the characters I grew up with. Their contemporary alt modes are, for the most part, similar to their G1 alt modes. That is exactly what I want in my collection.

MP's are nice. I have mine displayed on a separate shelf, all by themselves. But they are an upscale supplement to my collection. I don't have a desire to buy all of them, especially since they have now downsized them.

I hope Classics is not dead. There are still some characters from the G1 cast I would like to have in my collection.

Bowspearer wrote:If you were paying international prices for CHUG figures (eg $17 for scouts/cyberverse commanders, $30 for deluxes and $50 for voyagers), would you still be collecting or would you pretty much have to give it up?

I wouldn't be paying those prices. I don't feel that it's worth it.

featofstrength wrote:

Bowspearer wrote:

paul053 wrote:3 'N's. No money, No space, and Not allowed. So Nope.

That honestly makes me want to ask you and others in the US who cite money issues a question. If you were paying international prices for CHUG figures (eg $17 for scouts/cyberverse commanders, $30 for deluxes and $50 for voyagers), would you still be collecting or would you pretty much have to give it up?

Of course, most would. Grumble as they may, the toys break the will and the wallet in the end. Mattel knows how to exploit this...He-man fans love to cry "rape", but still welcome every dirty deed put forth by this company.

The reason I was asking about it is because from an international fan perspective, what I pay for a Voyager class classics figure, I can preorder a Masterpiece Autobot Car for. As such, the price and space arguments from what I'm used to, are slightly counter-intuitive.

SJ21 wrote:Classics is the line I collect the most. Being updated versions of the G1 cast, they look like the characters I grew up with. Their contemporary alt modes are, for the most part, similar to their G1 alt modes. That is exactly what I want in my collection.

MP's are nice. I have mine displayed on a separate shelf, all by themselves. But they are an upscale supplement to my collection. I don't have a desire to buy all of them, especially since they have now downsized them.

I hope Classics is not dead. There are still some characters from the G1 cast I would like to have in my collection.

What it really comes down to is the reason people buy CHUG. Anyone getting them because they're modernisations of the original G1 designs, CHUG and Masterpiece figures will fill very different roles in their collection.

However for anyone like me, who bought Alternators and Classics because it seemed like they were the closest we were ever going to get to Masterpiece figures though, CHUG is now obsolete. Certainly they were great at the time and they served their purpose. But for those of us in this camp, collecting CHUG figures is just settling for second best now.

I wouldn't say collecting classics is second best or dead how many collectors do they think there going to win over with the MP just because there doing more characters, the price of one figure is enough to stop people and just to get another re paint after that is very off putting to me.

The fact we just got Blitzwing and Springer is not calling this line dead it's just changed it's look Blaster and Soundblaster while from the foc line again a different aesthetics to what were used to in the generations line but are more then welcome pieces into many collections as permanent members.

iv'e never been in any hope we would get all the g1 characters we wanted from hasbro in the classics style they took too long doing it so putting a twist on the product like they have with IDW is just the evolution of it and if this line continues i'm sure there will be much more to still add to the churg line.

Bowspearer wrote:

featofstrength wrote:

Bowspearer wrote:

paul053 wrote:3 'N's. No money, No space, and Not allowed. So Nope.

That honestly makes me want to ask you and others in the US who cite money issues a question. If you were paying international prices for CHUG figures (eg $17 for scouts/cyberverse commanders, $30 for deluxes and $50 for voyagers), would you still be collecting or would you pretty much have to give it up?

Of course, most would. Grumble as they may, the toys break the will and the wallet in the end. Mattel knows how to exploit this...He-man fans love to cry "rape", but still welcome every dirty deed put forth by this company.

The reason I was asking about it is because from an international fan perspective, what I pay for a Voyager class classics figure, I can preorder a Masterpiece Autobot Car for. As such, the price and space arguments from what I'm used to, are slightly counter-intuitive.

This is just my personal perspective. Not applied to other people if you say. And this is the reason I totally avoid Takara. If Hasbro's paint job is totally crap, I will just add them by myself. So far the only Takara figure I have is Henkei Bee. At the time when I found him and bought him, he was cheaper than the classics one. Actually I'm thinking about adding my 4th 'N'. No interest. I know MP figures looks so nice, but they don't fit in to my collection rules and my rules are the way I created to control my expense on this hobby. So if the price is about the same and you will get a MP instead of a crappy voyager, why not go for it if you think your money worth spend.

Bowspearer wrote: But for those of us in this camp, collecting CHUG figures is just settling for second best now.

Well, if only buying what you can afford is "settling", then I don't mind, because I "settle" for less than best every time I buy something. For example, I "settle" for clothes from Old Navy because I can't afford Armani.

To say that you only buy the most expensive line and people who don't are "just settling for second best" comes across as kind of pretentious, especially when some of the people you're talking to can only afford second best.

On the other hand, what's "Best" is subjective. Given the choice between a single MP and a whole shelf full of regular figures, I'd say the best choice is the shelf full of figures, and the single MP is the second best choice.

As has been said before, they are apples and oranges at best due to scale and price point. They'd have to make a LOT of these guys to even come close to the amount of Classicverse figures that have been released since 2006 and that's obviously not counting some other figures released in other lines that display well with classicsverse.

I think the line that is most hurt by this is Alternators/Binaltech, a line that has already lost serious ground in most collections by now.

Having said all that, I am glad that these figures are being made as they definitely add a different element to collecting, much like WST did in the mid-2000's. Speaking of which, I wish that line had lasted longer, especially with the "official" stuff.

GuyIncognito wrote:

Bowspearer wrote: But for those of us in this camp, collecting CHUG figures is just settling for second best now.

Well, if only buying what you can afford is "settling", then I don't mind, because I "settle" for less than best every time I buy something. For example, I "settle" for clothes from Old Navy because I can't afford Armani.

To say that you only buy the most expensive line and people who don't are "just settling for second best" comes across as kind of pretentious, especially when some of the people you're talking to can only afford second best.

On the other hand, what's "Best" is subjective. Given the choice between a single MP and a whole shelf full of regular figures, I'd say the best choice is the shelf full of figures, and the single MP is the second best choice.

I agree, especially with the last point. I'll buy some MPs. And I've no problem recognising them as the figures that my still-developing brain thought the G1 figures were. MPs are pretty much THE definitive versions of these G1 characters. I don't even see where there can be any debate about that.

One the things I like about Transformers is the range of character designs, and alt modes and colour palettes. Variety is great, and I get a lot more of that from smaller figures. It's really quite appealing to me now, as an adult collector, to have dozens of figures of all the different characters, when in my youth, I struggled to complete a single Scramble City combiner team, and used to use Dirge as my Starscream, coming up with some explanation or other why he was blue and gold instead of his correct colours.

I do recognise that the MPs are better designed and decorated usually, and love that they're keeping the original alt modes intact whilst also managing cartoon accuracy, but those are second best to me...or rather a special treat. Normal sized figures are a far more regular expense and form the basis of my ever-growing collection, and I don't really see that changing any time soon. MPs are for characters that hold a special place in my heart, or whom I feel work better with the rest of my collection in the larger scale. MP Grimlock fits the 2nd criteria there, being an awesomely sized T-Rex for my Classics. MP Prowl will work for the former reason, since I had the original(-ish) G1 toy and the Action Master, and read a load of the comics, Prowl is a favourite of mine. An MP Brawn, or Octane isn't going to mean anything to me, so I'd rather have 3 or 4 TFs for the same price.

This topic makes me think of my Classics Mirage. I wonder what an MP Mirage would look like?

I would contribute more to this topic with my perspective but all the points i could possibly make have already been made and for the sake of not being redundant i will refrain.

I'm aware of the prices we all pay for our toys, been done to death.
What i want to know is what % of an average income is the cost of a Voyager? For instance, a teacher friend of mine brings home close to $800 a week. After rent and utilities (food and weekly train ticket) the cost of a $50 Voyager is roughly 13% of his disposable income.
How do those figures compare with our American and European friends?

Sinnertwin wrote:I'm aware of the prices we all pay for our toys, been done to death.
What i want to know is what % of an average income is the cost of a Voyager? For instance, a teacher friend of mine brings home close to $800 a week. After rent and utilities (food and weekly train ticket) the cost of a $50 Voyager is roughly 13% of his disposable income.
How do those figures compare with our American and European friends?

That's too hard to calculate, especially when it comes to determining what "disposable" means. Instead, I think about what else that money could buy.

For example, a Voyager (at US price) is $20-$25 - the price of a dinner at a casual restaurant, or a couple of cocktails. No big deal.

An imported MP is $100-$200 - the price of a night in a nice hotel or a plane ticket to Florida.

GuyIncognito wrote:For example, a Voyager (at US price) is $20-$25 - the price of a dinner at a casual restaurant, or a couple of cocktails. No big deal.

An imported MP is $100-$200 - the price of a night in a nice hotel or a plane ticket to Florida.

Imagine the money you would have to spend to assemble a MP collections including all of the G1 characters we got in the Classics line.

re:IDW inspired designs...I know there's different people in charge of each line, but sometimes I look at the TF brand and the GI Joe brand and am amazed that some of the really obvious stuff they've done over there (and with the Star Wars and even Marvel toys) and wonder why TFs don't bother.
Comic packs. obvious.
25th anniversary line. obvious.
getting the rock to sell your film at wrestlemania, and then postponing it to reshoot duke being in a coma so the rock can advertise it at a 2nd wrestlemania. okay, a little less obvious, but still money.

seems like it sometimes takes the TF guys a little while to catch up with the rest of Hasbro's marketing strategy. it might be that they're too busy swimming in pools of money watching michael bay make things explode, of course, but still.