The Energon Pub

Hey, don't hate me for this statement; some cat named TOYDUDE made the statement on http://whohasswag.com

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http://whohasswag.com/sjshow.php?swag=70

Here are my reasons the Rodimus Prime was greater than Optimus Prime

I still cannot believe that in the new Transformers movies there has been no mention of who was the new leader of the Transformers for the 90s.

1. Rodimus was a sports car. There is nothing cool or awesome about a huge American-flag colored truck. Unless that truck’s name was Ultramagnus

2. Optimus was too much of a goody goody. His do good and don’t hurt anybody attitude was so played out

3. Rodimus had Ultramagnus. Optimus never had anybody following him who was in many ways his superior… Maybe he was insecure

4. He survived the battle that killed Optimus. Say what you want about him but while one truck was dying and another truck was miserably failing Hot Rod was stepping up to the plate

5. He was futuristic and didn’t play any games while Prime was always trying to be nice to humans and Decepticons.

There you have it people, my reason for believing that Rodimus Prime deserves much more respect than he is given, and he definitely deserves a prominent role in Transformers 3.

I can't wait to lay into this dude!

Rodimus was so great that when the universe was threatened by the hate plague Skylynx, a Quintesson, some chick, Kup and Goldbug had to bring Optimus back to life to save Rodimus and everyone else's bacon.

transforthem wrote:
I still cannot believe that in the new Transformers movies there has been no mention of who was the new leader of the Transformers for the 90s.

Why would there be???

Its a unconnected universe.

1. Rodimus was a sports car.

Actually "HotRod" was the sports car,

Rodimus was a Winnebago.

4. He survived the battle that killed Optimus.

Because Optimus sacrificed his life to save HotRod.

MYoung23 wrote:Rodimus was so great that when the universe was threatened by the hate plague Skylynx, a Quintesson, some chick, Kup and Goldbug had to bring Optimus back to life to save Rodimus and everyone else's bacon.

Kup and Goldbug actully had nothing to do with Optimus's return.

1. Rodimus killed Optimus
2. He was EMO
3. He was suicidal
4. He sux ass
5. Really, he sucks
6. He is too doubtful
7. Hes too small
8. Seriously, he sucks.
9. Optimus was a truck
10. Optimus sacrificed his life
11. Rodimus wanted Optimus to die so he could become leader
12. Rodimus couldnt kill anyone.
13. Did i meantion that he sucks?...hard

As a kid I absolutely hated Rodimus Prime with the fury of a 1000 burning suns. He was an idiot who got Prime killed. He knew how inferior he was, and the character said it himself. His name just sounded dumb, like a cheap knock off Optimus Prime.(His alt mode as Rodimus Prime looked down right silly.which just furthered how much of a knock off he was, like oh he's a prime so he gets a trailer.) I mean Optimus Prime actually means something, First and Best. Rodmius Prime is like WTH. Like Waluigi, you re just like what in the nine rings of hell were they thinking when they green lite that name. Easily one of the worst Transformers names ever. (Kup is also in the running. though in one review of transformers episodes, they said it's good Rodimus never died or we'd gotten an even worse name of Springimus Prime heh.)

All that said, Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime wasn't a bad idea. It was simply done in the worst possible way. It was the hero's story told completely out of sequence. They forced him on the fans, as he wasn't eased in. Had they simply made two separate teams of autobots, one on earth and another in space lead by Hot rod to warm people up to him then I think alot more fans would put up with him. GI Joe had two different leaders for bulk of the show with Duke and Flint, so wasn't like it couldn't be done.

Instead they killed off Optimus Prime , whom majority of fans loved, and then shoved Rodimus down our throats. I get why they killed Prime, as he was a complete character, wasn't alot more to do with him. I think they should put him into a supportive mentor role instead of simply axing him, as character like him are better served like that. They wanted a main character who was much more flawed, so was more character development and growth to him. Just Hot Rod showed up entirely too late.

Had he been around for atleast for season two building him up to a potentially effective leader it might made sense, but just from his showing in the movie alone, outside of the matrix picking him, plenty of other characters were more qualified than he was as a leader.(Silverbolt, Jazz, Ultra Magnus, Hotspot.) Bumble bee had more leadership experience than Hot rod did. He was simply unqualified. (like this hehe. http://www.lilformers.com/index.php/2008/11/17/lil-formers-123-time-for-change/ and this http://www.lilformers.com/index.php/2006/10/17/lil-formers-15-rodimus-prime/ and lastly this, - NSFW WARNING!!- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1_6D9QS9Y )

There was a lesson learned as most newer versions of Prime tend mirror Hot Rod as he's usually the rookie commander just coming into his own in alot of other series. (most noteably in Beast wars and Animated.) He has room to improve then, and there's often someone else who's the supreme leader, atleast initially. (even War for Cybertron does this with Zeta Prime as the leader who falls via Sentinel Prime style, and Optimus proves be the successor. ) Hot Rod taught the creators of transformers a lesson...in spite of him hehe.

Until I saw only the movie, I liked the character of Rodimus. I don't think it was his mistake of killing Optimus, if Megatron reached the gun without Optimus noticing it, the autobots could have been left leaderless anyway. But his alt modes are several ways cooler than Optimus'.

As for season 3's Rodimus: Yeah, he was a whiney idiot who blew up a whole planet instead of fighting to retake it.

So, my order:
86 Movie Rodimus >> Optimus >> Season 3 Rodimus

Chaoslock wrote:Until I saw only the movie, I liked the character of Rodimus. I don't think it was his mistake of killing Optimus, if Megatron reached the gun without Optimus noticing it, the autobots could have been left leaderless anyway. But his alt modes are several ways cooler than Optimus'.

How you figure? Optimus was in the perfect position and poised to blow Megatron's brains out if Hotrod hadn't gotten involved. As Kup even said, it was prime's fight. The movie itself even stated he shouldn't have been there. Optimus was focused on Megatron , and him causing prime to look up is the whole reason megatron was able to pick up the gun in the first place. Hot Rod blames himself because it was his fault.

The cartoon Rodimus sucks big time I have always hated him, but dudes the old MArvel UK stuff seemed to have made him an awesome character. I don't read much of the old stuff but I got one of idw's reprints just by chance and damn Rodimus Prime's a really great character in it and actually kicks some major ass.

Lastjustice wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:Until I saw only the movie, I liked the character of Rodimus. I don't think it was his mistake of killing Optimus, if Megatron reached the gun without Optimus noticing it, the autobots could have been left leaderless anyway. But his alt modes are several ways cooler than Optimus'.

How you figure? Optimus was in the perfect position and poised to blow Megatron's brains out if Hotrod hadn't gotten involved. As Kup even said, it was prime's fight. The movie itself even stated he shouldn't have been there. Optimus was focused on Megatron , and him causing prime to look up is the whole reason megatron was able to pick up the gun in the first place. Hot Rod blames himself because it was his fault.

Optimus wouldn't kill an unarmed opponent, even with the deaths Megatron caused (that's not G1 Primes character); and at the moment Optimus lowers his weapon, Megatron would have taken the opportunity to shoot.

Or, take the possibility that Optimus kills the unarmed Megatron - Prime would have blamed himself for the rest of his life, that while he took revenge for his fallen comrades, he ceased to be the hero and eventually fails to lead the autobots.

Chaoslock wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:Until I saw only the movie, I liked the character of Rodimus. I don't think it was his mistake of killing Optimus, if Megatron reached the gun without Optimus noticing it, the autobots could have been left leaderless anyway. But his alt modes are several ways cooler than Optimus'.

How you figure? Optimus was in the perfect position and poised to blow Megatron's brains out if Hotrod hadn't gotten involved. As Kup even said, it was prime's fight. The movie itself even stated he shouldn't have been there. Optimus was focused on Megatron , and him causing prime to look up is the whole reason megatron was able to pick up the gun in the first place. Hot Rod blames himself because it was his fault.

Optimus wouldn't kill an unarmed opponent, even with the deaths Megatron caused (that's not G1 Primes character); and at the moment Optimus lowers his weapon, Megatron would have taken the opportunity to shoot.

Or, take the possibility that Optimus kills the unarmed Megatron - Prime would have blamed himself for the rest of his life, that while he took revenge for his fallen comrades, he ceased to be the hero and eventually fails to lead the autobots.

Prime had enough crap that day. His team took alot of casualties, and not like Prime never killed anyone before. (he's blown away Decepticons in dawn war.)He never lowered his weapon, and would have made no sense for him to do so. At very least I see him disabling Megatron similiar to how Prime did in animated during Endgame.

Prime wouldn't have blamed himself. War is hell, and people kill in wars.(robotic or otherwise.) Prime blasted foes with a weapon, it would be cowardly for him to do so if he wasn't willing deal with the consequences of doing so. Again Prime made sacrifices, as that's what leaders are all about, as there's always hard decisions to be made.(Not mention all times he's put Megatron in situations that could have killed him, but he survived such as Heavy Metal war, shoving him into the lava.) If he was that weak willed he'd never made it as leader. Especially considered how many Decepticons he seriously damaged prior to that.

If anything Prime had an obligation to cybertron to kill megatron and end the war. There was no legal system to punish Megatron, and long as he was alive Decepticons would follow him.

Ultimately nothing in canon agrees with your assessment.

You know, I think we have a different take on how we look at heroes. True heroes not kill or obliterate, they disable their opponents when they have the chance, and show that their ways are wrong - even if they need to do it again and again and again. And that is what Heroic Autobots and Evil Decepticons were all about in G1 and the 80's. You can't look at autobots in an "in war, you have to kill even a child if he is an enemy and force your opinion down on others throats" way; because that wasn't true in the cartoonmedia at that time.

It's like you can't see any G1 cartoon where Decepticons used weapons of mass destruction on autobots (the closest to them is only Kremzeek) - that is an unwritten rule.

Ultimately Rodimus and Optimus had different strengths and weaknesses. Optimus had more fortitude of confidence, more popularity and a more solid moral code. As a leader, he had experience and strength that made him excellent.

On the downside, his rigidity of character led to some very dubious choices at times (especially agreeing to leave Earth in Megatron's Master Plan and agreeing to one-on-one combat despite knowing Megatron would probably cheat). Also he was fighting the Transformers war on a visibly smaller front: he was able to protect Earth and secure the moons of Cybertron but was never able to get Cybertron itself.

Rodimus had a more ruthless, irreverant attitude that allowed him to perform actions that Optimus wouldn't have even considered. He was able to fight the Decepticon threat (which was arguably more dangerous led by the psychotic Galvatron than the calculating Megatron) on multiple fronts while also dealing with the Quintessons and having to get involved in interplanetary politics. He gave his troops more autonomy (especially the Dinobots) and managed to rout the Decepticons from Cybertron and keep a well defended base on Earth too. Plus he, you know, defeated Unicron.

On the other hand he seemed like a weaker, less confident leader, wracked with doubt. Without the strong staff he had built up (especially Kup, Springer and Ultra Magnus) he may well have been overwhelmed. His reluctance to lead led indirectly to losing the Matrix to the 'Cons, and his hesitant nature almost led to Metroplex being defeated. Ironically his lack of desire to lead led to Optimus returning and Rodimus becoming a happy Hot Rod again. It worked out well for both of them.

Chaoslock wrote:You know, I think we have a different take on how we look at heroes. True heroes not kill or obliterate, they disable their opponents when they have the chance, and show that their ways are wrong - even if they need to do it again and again and again. And that is what Heroic Autobots and Evil Decepticons were all about in G1 and the 80's. You can't look at autobots in an "in war, you have to kill even a child if he is an enemy and force your opinion down on others throats" way; because that wasn't true in the cartoonmedia at that time.

It's like you can't see any G1 cartoon where Decepticons used weapons of mass destruction on autobots (the closest to them is only Kremzeek) - that is an unwritten rule.

Heroes never kill is BS. Even Superman kills when he has to. Even Batman kills when he has to(he used to do it more often till they gave him a ridiclous no kill policy in 99.9% of the situations just so all his rogues could be complete psychopaths.) Vash the stampade kills when he has to. A person who uses violence against others to deter their actions but is afraid of causing serious or death is a coward. It's not to say they need revel in it, or desire to it. Just the willingness to go as far as you have to. If you point a weapon at something, you better be willing to destroy it. Prime was, with a heavy heart as he hated war, but he never stopped doing what he believed was right.

The whole it's a saturday morning cartoon defense went out the door soon as the 86 movie happened. It was being portrayed fully as an intergalatic civil war. Prime was willing to kill Megatron as he beat him with in inches of his life. It wasn't from lack of trying that Megatron survived. I mean do you seriously believe Prime in his dying moment didn't hit Megatron as hard as he could, and off a high ledge knowing full well it could result in Megatron's death? He does whatever he has to because he's a leader.

Prime with in the show was willing made the tough choices. He told Spike to abandon Daniel during rebirth to save cybertron. He's used potentially lethal force against the decepticons numerous times. There's been times their plans they thought might have killed the Decepticons. Plot armor is likely only reason no one ever bought the farm sooner. Most near series are much more willing let some characters buy the farm at a more reasonable rate.

Prime killed Decepticons in other series, particularly in the new movies. I don't consider his actions any less heroic because of that. He's doing his job and that's what needs to be done to protect his people and new world. He's basically G1 prime at his core though.

This isn't saying oh I want transformers to slag each other left and right because I don't. (I hated the 86 film as a kid because of it.) But I think the reverse of characters never killing each other with extreme violence is just as bad as having a series where people die left and right. It creates the illusion violence is ok if there's never any consequences for it. (part of why Alan Moore made the watchmen.) I think there's a happy balance, which Beast wars and animated operated with in. (atleast till end as beast wars had a rather high body count.)

I almost feel bad for Hot Rod. He didn't want to be leader and probably knew how inadequate in everyone's eyes he seemed.

But... yeah. I prefer Optimus over him.

Picard was better than Kirk!

Lastjustice wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:You know, I think we have a different take on how we look at heroes. True heroes not kill or obliterate, they disable their opponents when they have the chance, and show that their ways are wrong - even if they need to do it again and again and again. And that is what Heroic Autobots and Evil Decepticons were all about in G1 and the 80's. You can't look at autobots in an "in war, you have to kill even a child if he is an enemy and force your opinion down on others throats" way; because that wasn't true in the cartoonmedia at that time.

It's like you can't see any G1 cartoon where Decepticons used weapons of mass destruction on autobots (the closest to them is only Kremzeek) - that is an unwritten rule.

Heroes never kill is BS. Even Superman kills when he has to. Even Batman kills when he has to(he used to do it more often till they gave him a ridiclous no kill policy in 99.9% of the situations just so all his rogues could be complete psychopaths.) Vash the stampade kills when he has to. A person who uses violence against others to deter their actions but is afraid of causing serious or death is a coward. It's not to say they need revel in it, or desire to it. Just the willingness to go as far as you have to. If you point a weapon at something, you better be willing to destroy it. Prime was, with a heavy heart as he hated war, but he never stopped doing what he believed was right.

While agree on the fact that Prime was going to kill Megatron I call BS on the "all heroes will kill" thing you've got there. Spider-Man doesn't kill, ever not even when the villain wants him to do so to end his misery (Mendel Stromm), even tries to find a way to get rid of Venom and Carnage without killing the aliens or the hosts. Sure he threatens to kill people and sometimes wants to but in the end he never does.

Lord Chumley wrote:Picard was better than Kirk!

Sisko was better then both.

Dead Metal wrote:While agree on the fact that Prime was going to kill Megatron I call BS on the "all heroes will kill" thing you've got there. Spider-Man doesn't kill, ever not even when the villain wants him to do so to end his misery (Mendel Stromm), even tries to find a way to get rid of Venom and Carnage without killing the aliens or the hosts. Sure he threatens to kill people and sometimes wants to but in the end he never does.

I'm sorry but your example is flawed.



February 1987, Spiderman Vrs Wolverine.

To make a long story short....Spiderman chose, after a long battle, to try to kill Wolverine....to save the life of a 3rd person.

This action lead to Spiderman actully killing that 3rd person instead.

Now I'll grant, he did not intent for that person to die...but he was trying to kill Wolverine.

And Spiderman has killed plenty of times.

ASM Annual #5 Deliberately killed the Finisher by returning a fired missile back to his tank.
Marvel Team-Up #31 Killed Drom the Backwards Man.
Web of Spider-Man #91 Kills Whisper-3, member of the Foreigner's Death Squad.
Amazing Spider-Man Vol.2 #50 killed two members of the Latverian Liberation Front
Amazing Spider-Man #104 Killed Gog, quasi-human alien creature in the Savage Land.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
ASM Annual #5 Deliberately killed the Finisher by returning a fired missile back to his tank.

What should he do? The dude shot with head seeking missiles hat him in a crowded area, he had to take out the tank, he regretted that Finister died in it.

Marvel Team-Up #31 Killed Drom the Backwards Man.

While being assisted by Ironfist trying to stop him from killing them by robbing their lifeforce, after that was over Droom never existed which is made obvious by the fact they forget about him. You can't kill what dosen'T exist plus he felt bad while smashing that mirror.

Web of Spider-Man #91 Kills Whisper-3, member of the Foreigner's Death Squad.

I give you that, he could have dodged the blast.

Amazing Spider-Man Vol.2 #50 killed two members of the Latverian Liberation Front

Not his fault, he launched that missile in that hole as that was the only place to not cause casualties, he didn't know they where there, that's like saying you killed someone because he decided to eat the poisoned apple you threw into the trash.

Amazing Spider-Man #104 Killed Gog, quasi-human alien creature in the Savage Land.

Grog survived the quicksand.

Dead Metal wrote:What should he do? The dude shot with head seeking missiles hat him in a crowded area, he had to take out the tank, he regretted that Finister died in it.

Not the point.

You said "Spider-Man doesn't kill, ever" which was incorrect.

While being assisted by Ironfist trying to stop him from killing them by robbing their lifeforce, after that was over Droom never existed which is made obvious by the fact they forget about him. You can't kill what dosen'T exist plus he felt bad while smashing that mirror.

Not the point.

You said "Spider-Man doesn't kill, ever" which was incorrect.So it doesnt matter that he didnt do it alone.

And BTW, it was your interpretation that he never existed.

I give you that, he could have dodged the blast.

Still not the point.

Not his fault, he launched that missile in that hole as that was the only place to not cause casualties, he didn't know they where there, that's like saying you killed someone because he decided to eat the poisoned apple you threw into the trash.

Not the point.

You said "Spider-Man doesn't kill, ever" which was incorrect.

Further more, not knowing they were there does not elevate responsibility.

If I fir a gun into what I think is an abandoned house and the bullet hits a squatter its still my fault.

Grog survived the quicksand.

From my understanding he came back to life.

And either way Spiderman didnt know he could survive.

So he intended to kill him.

Spiderman tried kill a few people at various points, usually someone stopped him. It wasn't from lack of trying. (and he has killed, as Sto said if he wasn't using excessive force against wolervine, he'd never killed that woman.) Spiderman operates with in the sane realms of trying not to kill people as much as possible but if like Norman Osborn is trying kill him family he will end if they don't do themselves in first heh. When enough is enough he will kill. Peter just luckily most seem fall to other causes so he doesn't have to.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Lord Chumley wrote:Picard was better than Kirk!

Sisko was better then both.

Hells yes! I love the Thong Song!!

By the by, I never thought of what might have been had Hot Rod not interfered. I don't think that Optimus would have killed Megatron, even though he clearly did have a head shot and everything. It would have been so easy, but I have to say I don;t think Prime would have killed him becuase Megs was unarmed, and wasn't in any position to defend himself, really. For me it's not an issue of heros never killing or if they do kill, and I'm also omitting the whole 80s cartoon good guy has to let the villian escape so as to return one day formula as well. The nuts and bolts are that Prime and Megatron were retirement-bound from the lineup in favor of new leaders, but I'm not entirely sure that Prime would have shot Megatron dead at any rate.
I guess this requires more thought than I've put into it up until this moment, but it's a real interesting idea, whether or not Prime would actually have killed him. G1 Prime, at least, I'd wager that movieverse Prime would have killed him with little or no otherwise thinking.

Dagon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Lord Chumley wrote:Picard was better than Kirk!

Sisko was better then both.

Hells yes! I love the Thong Song!!

Wrong Sisko.

Lastjustice wrote:Heroes never kill is BS. Even Superman kills when he has to. Even Batman kills when he has to(he used to do it more often till they gave him a ridiclous no kill policy in 99.9% of the situations just so all his rogues could be complete psychopaths.) Vash the stampade kills when he has to. A person who uses violence against others to deter their actions but is afraid of causing serious or death is a coward. It's not to say they need revel in it, or desire to it. Just the willingness to go as far as you have to. If you point a weapon at something, you better be willing to destroy it. Prime was, with a heavy heart as he hated war, but he never stopped doing what he believed was right.

Those aren't fair examples. Superman Killed three alternate reality Kryptonians, and he was a wreck afterwards (I even think he broke down and developed a split personality temporarily, it has been a while since I looked this stuff up.) Batman killed when he first was created, when the silver age started he was rebooted and developed his no kill policy. When he shot Darkseid (I haven't read Final Crisis yet so this is just off the top of my head) he didn't do so lightly. And as for Vash, he killed exactly one person directly because he had no choice. The very next episode dealt with the fallout of that decision, he even broke into tears after that happened. So while finding heroes that have never killed anyone would range from hard to near-impossible to find, heroes that will kill aren't in as big a majority as you might think.

Rodimus723 wrote:Those aren't fair examples.

Actully they are.

Superman Killed three alternate reality Kryptonians, and he was a wreck afterwards (I even think he broke down and developed a split personality temporarily, it has been a while since I looked this stuff up.)

He has still demenstrated that he's willing to kill.

He did try to Kill Doomsday and I believe Darkside.

Batman killed when he first was created, when the silver age started he was rebooted and developed his no kill policy.

He has also killed since the silver age.And I dont mean Darkside.