The Energon Pub

Like Evolution Prime on Facebook · by **Evolution Prime** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:32 pm

(CNN) -- Military supporters descended on Berkeley early Tuesday, demanding the famously liberal California college town rescind its vote that says Marine recruiters are "not welcome in this city."

The pro-military demonstrators were met by anti-war protesters who had camped out overnight, setting the stage for a dramatic showdown late in the day when the City Council is to discuss whether to revoke its previous vote.

"Their treasonous action, especially at this time of war right now, is not acceptable," said Mary Pearson, a spokeswoman for the group Move America Forward.

"It's very, very important for everyone to stand united ... to give our Marines and all of our military the greatest respect and honor that they deserve."

Before the sun was even up, about 300 demonstrators -- both pro-military and anti-war -- were already standing toe-to-toe in downtown. Many traded jeers and sneers.

"Code Pink doesn't stand for us," one sign said, held by a man in military fatigues. Signs held by anti-war activists read, "End the War" and "Bring the troops home now."

The City Council is to meet at 7 p.m. PT on whether to take back its previous measure urging the Marine recruiters to leave town.

"If recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders," the measure says.

It went on to say the council applauds residents and organizations that "volunteer to impede, passively or actively, by nonviolent means, the work of any military recruiting office located in the City of Berkeley."

Ever since the council measure, protesters with the anti-war group Code Pink have camped outside the Marine recruiting office on Shattuck Avenue, singing peace songs and chanting slogans for an end to the Iraq war.

Republican lawmakers in Washington fired back last week, threatening to recall more than $2 million of federal funding to the city as well as money designated for the University of California-Berkeley, the campus that became a bastion of liberalism during the Vietnam War.

The Marine Corps has said it has no plans to move its office, which is located about a block from the college campus.

Whether the City Council reverses course remains to be seen.

Max Anderson, a Vietnam war veteran who serves on the council, said he fully supports the measure to get Marine recruiters out of town -- despite receiving more than 8,000 e-mails, most of them harsh in tone, on the matter.

"If the aim was to shut us down, get us to back up, get us to eat our words, get us to retreat from our position with the war, they can forget that," he told CNN Monday.

He said he was recruited by Marines after he graduated from high school in 1963 and was promised that he and his friends would serve together. But once they enlisted, he said, they were separated and shipped off to Vietnam.

"We're not against the Marines per se," he said. "We're against this war. We're against the mechanisms that support this war and send our young people over there."

Kriss Worthington, a progressive Berkeley activist and council member for 11 years, believes the council overreached.

"The inflammatory language in the City Council item is really outrageous -- not just to right-wing people, but to mainstream liberal people and even to some peace activists who have said they're insulted that the city would have such language," Worthington said.

He said Berkeley owes an apology to the military and to the peace movement "for having such embarrassing language allegedly trying to promote peace."

"When you make a colossal blunder, you can't just sort of ignore the mistake and go about your way. You have to do something to fix it," Worthington said.

Now I get that not everyone is for the war in Iraq, but this I believe is going too far. This is starting to sound like the Vietnam War where the military was not welcome. Passing this measure, it will be a slap in the face of every military member and veteran. This act may not be "treasonous" as suggested, but it is definitely crossing the line of decency and respect that military members and veterans deserve. I say if they go and pass this measure, they get all state and federal funding revoked, including the University of California - Berkley. They do not deserve it.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:41 pm

They want the recruiters out so they can't recruit Berkley students right?

If Berkley students are so smart, how come they just can't say no?

Half them **** potheads wouldn't qualify to make it into the Marine Corps anyway.

Liberals, can't live with em;, can't kill em.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:42 pm

First Gen wrote:They want the recruiters out so they can't recruit Berkley students right?

If Berkley students are so smart, how come they just can't say no?

Half them **** potheads wouldn't qualify to make it into the Marine Corps anyway.

Liberals, can't live with em;, can't kill em.

Wow. How open minded. Don't say such stupid things unless you believe them.

Oh wait...

-----------------------------------------

Whatever happened to a person's opinion? You don't have to agree with it, but you most certainly don't have the right to take it from them, punish them for it, or want them dead for it.

By doing that, you're no better than the people the war is going after. We have freedom here (though it is coming close to an end) and if you start taking away people's opinions, their right to have one...you're destroying one of the cornerstones on which our freedom was built.

But I'm sure none of this will make a difference to you.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:53 pm

Definitely against the protesters here. It's the US Military, not the US-Except-For-Berkley Military.

I have problems with both extremist Liberals and extremist Conservatives. Extremist Liberals think we can just push a button and all the problems in Iraq go away.

First Gen wrote:Liberals, can't live with em;, can't kill em.

And that's my problem with Extremist Conservatives. Everything can be solved by violence.

Ah, crap. I sens ea disturbance in the Force. The last time I felt this, the Philosopher's Forum closed.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:58 pm

Shadowman wrote:Definitely against the protesters here. It's the US Military, not the US-Except-For-Berkley Military.

I have problems with both extremist Liberals and extremist Conservatives. Extremist Liberals think we can just push a button and all the problems in Iraq go away.

First Gen wrote:Liberals, can't live with em;, can't kill em.

And that's my problem with Extremist Conservatives. Everything can be solved by violence.

Ah, crap. I sens ea disturbance in the Force. The last time I felt this, the Philosopher's Forum closed.

Indeed. *ignites Lightsaber*

Like Evolution Prime on Facebook · by **Evolution Prime** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:06 pm

Freedom of speech and protesting are all fine and good, but passing measure kicking the recruiters is crossing the line. I fully support thier right to protest a war they don't believe in. That is their right. It is their right speak out for what they believe. Passing a measure that effectively says to servicemen and vets that "we don't want you here so get out" is way out of line. This is exactly the kind of thing that happened after Vietnam. I fully support any sanctions the federal and state goverments may impose on Berkley for their ignorance.

Plus last time I checked joining the service was VOLUNTARY. They weren't forcing these men and women into service. As for lying to them, they don't flat out lie. You always aren't guarenteed a certain job, it is usually what the military needs. You can put in your "wish list" but by no means you are guarenteed it. When I went into the Navy, I was only guarenteed a spot in the Navy Nuclear Power Program due to my high scores on my ASVAB test. From, there I could be placed in as an Electronics Tecnician (ET), Electricans Mate (EM), or a Machinist Mate (MM). The ET position is what I wanted and was tyically the more prestigious but the fleet typically needs a lot more EMs and MMs. I was forutunate enough to get to an ET, while other ET hopefuls didn't. Other things not guarenteed are places to be stations and schools. You can put in for what you want. Its all the needs of the military since your are effectively military property. So saying the recuiters lie to them is not totally true.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:12 pm

Pass judgment on me if you want, but if it weren't for those Marines and all service members, Berkely wouldn't have the right to protest our presence.

I am a US MARINE, and anytime you say F-you, we don't need you, I will bite back.

Call me an extremist if you want, but its those like me that make sure you can sleep at night without worrying if you'll live to see the morning.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:33 pm

First Gen wrote:Pass judgment on me if you want, but if it weren't for those Marines and all service members, Berkely wouldn't have the right to protest our presence.

I am a US MARINE, and anytime you say F-you, we don't need you, I will bite back.

Call me an extremist if you want, but its those like me that make sure you can sleep at night without worrying if you'll live to see the morning.

Oh, nothing against you, of course. I've got nothing but respect for those people in fatigues who make sure other countries don't come along and shoot me in my sleep. As a matter of fact, my sister was in the US Army.

But honestly, saying **** like "Can't live with them, can't kill them" is only going to make life worse off for all of us.

Autobot032 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Ah, crap. I sens ea disturbance in the Force. The last time I felt this, the Philosopher's Forum closed.

Indeed. *ignites Lightsaber*

I roll a level 70 paladin, with a dual-class in mage. I have a +15 Blessed Sword of Justice, the full set of War God's Armor, boosting all my stats to maximum. My character is fluent in Elvish, Orc, and Troll, and dabbles in reading ancient scripts. Also, he has a perpetual itch on his right shoulder.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:43 pm

Shadowman wrote:
First Gen wrote:Pass judgment on me if you want, but if it weren't for those Marines and all service members, Berkely wouldn't have the right to protest our presence.

I am a US MARINE, and anytime you say F-you, we don't need you, I will bite back.

Call me an extremist if you want, but its those like me that make sure you can sleep at night without worrying if you'll live to see the morning.

Oh, nothing against you, of course. I've got nothing but respect for those people in fatigues who make sure other countries don't come along and shoot me in my sleep. As a matter of fact, my sister was in the US Army.

But honestly, saying **** like "Can't live with them, can't kill them" is only going to make life worse off for all of us.

Autobot032 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Ah, crap. I sens ea disturbance in the Force. The last time I felt this, the Philosopher's Forum closed.

Indeed. *ignites Lightsaber*

And
I roll a level 70 paladin, with a dual-class in mage. I have a +15 Blessed Sword of Justice, the full set of War God's Armor, boosting all my stats to maximum. My character is fluent in Elvish, Orc, and Troll, and dabbles in reading ancient scripts. Also, he has a perpetual itch on his right shoulder.

Rock on.

And First-Gen... I'm in full support of the soldiers. I don't like the war at all. I have no problem with the troops, if it wasn't for you and the rest of them, I fully admit we wouldn't have the freedoms we do. However, I never claimed otherwise.

And I don't think Berkley's right or wrong. I'm willing to see how it plays out before I pass judgment. However, they are entitled to their opinions and you wanting them dead because of their opinion is trying to take away their freedom.

No one's entitled to agree with one another, but we're entitled to give them their right to feel and believe how they wish. No matter how badly we want them to see our side, another person will always see it how they wish.

Besides, if we start taking away their right to speak out and have an opinion...then how soon will it be before our opinions are taken away?

In the end, we'll see what happens. Until then, all we can do is watch and wait.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:04 pm

Autobot032 wrote:And I don't think Berkley's right or wrong. I'm willing to see how it plays out before I pass judgment. However, they are entitled to their opinions and you wanting them dead because of their opinion is trying to take away their freedom.

No one's entitled to agree with one another, but we're entitled to give them their right to feel and believe how they wish. No matter how badly we want them to see our side, another person will always see it how they wish.

Besides, if we start taking away their right to speak out and have an opinion...then how soon will it be before our opinions are taken away?

In the end, we'll see what happens. Until then, all we can do is watch and wait.

It's like this. War is a fact of life. Has been since the dawn of man. Fiction, reality, it matters not. War is. You can't avoid it. You can protest it, you can lobby it, you can do whatever you want, but WAR will never go away.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. Just like US Marines are entitled to recruit. Evolution said it, they are infringing on our rights as servicemembers by asking them to leave.

What did the Marines do to them? Are the Marines a threat? Do they fear that the Marines will dupe their kids into joining? C'mon, if your kids gonna join you can't stop them.

When someone is against the Marine Corps they are my enemy. Thats not American, thats not "supporting the troops", that's hippie peace and love bull that is so far off the reality scale it makes alien robots from the planet Cybertron coming to Earth extremely possible. It is something that cannot be tolerated, less we have anarchy.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:48 pm

First Gen wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:And I don't think Berkley's right or wrong. I'm willing to see how it plays out before I pass judgment. However, they are entitled to their opinions and you wanting them dead because of their opinion is trying to take away their freedom.

No one's entitled to agree with one another, but we're entitled to give them their right to feel and believe how they wish. No matter how badly we want them to see our side, another person will always see it how they wish.

Besides, if we start taking away their right to speak out and have an opinion...then how soon will it be before our opinions are taken away?

In the end, we'll see what happens. Until then, all we can do is watch and wait.

It's like this. War is a fact of life. Has been since the dawn of man. Fiction, reality, it matters not. War is. You can't avoid it. You can protest it, you can lobby it, you can do whatever you want, but WAR will never go away.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. Just like US Marines are entitled to recruit. Evolution said it, they are infringing on our rights as servicemembers by asking them to leave.

What did the Marines do to them? Are the Marines a threat? Do they fear that the Marines will dupe their kids into joining? C'mon, if your kids gonna join you can't stop them.

When someone is against the Marine Corps they are my enemy. Thats not American, thats not "supporting the troops", that's hippie peace and love bull that is so far off the reality scale it makes alien robots from the planet Cybertron coming to Earth extremely possible. It is something that cannot be tolerated, less we have anarchy.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying "War or Anarchy."

War isn't the only option, you must realize that. War is the Last Resort. We don't just say "okay...how about we take out ______ today?" We see someone who is doing something bad, then we try to convince them to stop it, make deals, treaties. If it's two countries going at it, and it looks like a threat to us, we'll probably step in and help them resolve it.

AFTER that fails, we fight.

Also, being in the Marine Corps you're basically the Army with boats...boats on loan from the Navy, but boats nonetheless.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:50 pm

First Gen wrote:It's like this. War is a fact of life. Has been since the dawn of man. Fiction, reality, it matters not. War is. You can't avoid it. You can protest it, you can lobby it, you can do whatever you want, but WAR will never go away.

Fighting will never go away. War, however, can. There will always be skirmishes etc. They don't always turn into WAR.

First Gen wrote:Everyone is entitled to there opinion. Just like US Marines are entitled to recruit. Evolution said it, they are infringing on our rights as servicemembers by asking them to leave.

I agree that asking them to leave (and bar them) is infringing on their freedoms. (I never said otherwise...) This is partly why I said let it play out, see what happens.

First Gen wrote:What did the Marines do to them? Are the Marines a threat? Do they fear that the Marines will dupe their kids into joining? C'mon, if your kids gonna join you can't stop them.

I don't find the Marines to be a threat. (though they could be if left unchecked. Personal experience with an ex-friend who's an ex-Marine.) And duping? Duping is possible. The Army is using video game like displays to entice young adults into joining. The Marines could very well do the same. (Video game info here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01505.html)

First Gen wrote:When someone is against the Marine Corps they are my enemy. Thats not American, thats not "supporting the troops", that's hippie peace and love bull that is so far off the reality scale it makes alien robots from the planet Cybertron coming to Earth extremely possible. It is something that cannot be tolerated, less we have anarchy.

See, there's one of the reasons people protest the war and the war-mongerers behind it.

"You're with me or against me" is a TERRIBLE way to see your fellow countrymen.

It's considered Un-American to strive for peace and oppose the war? It's mentalities like that that that take away our rights.

Look, I'm grateful that you and your fellow servicemen put yourselves on the front line to save us, each and everyday. I truly thank you. I think that Berkley is run by idiots and that idiocy reigns supreme on *both* sides.

You must remember though, you're protecting all freedoms, and opinions are a part of freedom. And I know what you're going to say next "Well then maybe that's one freedom we shouldn't protect." (or something equally frightening.)

You know what? I'm out of this conversation. It's becoming quite uncomfortable and it's heartbreaking.

by **Nightracer GT** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:42 am

I live right on the border of Berkeley. I can say right now, some of you people would hate it there. :-P

One of my friends from school may very well have been in the protest on the hippie side.

I, on the other hand, was not. I slept through the whole thing, just like 9/11.

by **Pyrostrata** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:03 am

Too bad for Berkeley! Hope they never need The Corps for any reason....

...cuz they would not deserve it!

If it wasn't for the USMC, we'd have a LOT more dead soldiers in the Middle East!

Why is it that most of the craziest things in the US happen in California?? What is the deal??

Like Evolution Prime on Facebook · by **Evolution Prime** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:18 am

Shadowman wrote:Also, being in the Marine Corps you're basically the Army with boats...boats on loan from the Navy, but boats nonetheless.

Shhh....

Don't tell this to the Marines, but they are apart of the Department of the Navy, hence they really actually in the Navy.

News Credits: 4 · by **jazzrules** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:48 am

As a foreigner who doesn't know anything about the American military recruitment process, and the freedoms that you're constitution gives you, I probably shouldn't comment on this topic. BUT:

It doesn't seem to me as though this place is saying "we don't respect members of our armed forces", rather they are trying to protect their citizens in the only way they can see.

It doesn't seem like if you're a member of the Army/Navy/Air Force you'll be hounded out of town with burning torches and pitchforks - unless you try to convince people to sign up.

The argument about it being un-American to not support the war, I feel is a particularly pointless one. Just because you don't support some things your country does, doesn't mean you don't love your country. For example, there are plenty of people here in the UK who think that the Royal Family should be abolished (in fact I often wonder why we need them), but that doesn't mean we don't love our country.

In closing, please don't shoot me if you don't agree with what I'm saying, but sometimes things like this are easier to understand if you are an impartial observer.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:15 am

Shadowman wrote:Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying "War or Anarchy."

War isn't the only option, you must realize that. War is the Last Resort. We don't just say "okay...how about we take out ______ today?" We see someone who is doing something bad, then we try to convince them to stop it, make deals, treaties. If it's two countries going at it, and it looks like a threat to us, we'll probably step in and help them resolve it.

AFTER that fails, we fight.

Also, being in the Marine Corps you're basically the Army with boats...boats on loan from the Navy, but boats nonetheless.

At no point did I say that War was the only option. I merely stated that it was fact, always has been, always will be. There's nothing you, I or anyone else can really do about it.

Army with boats? Umm, no, the Army aspires to be like the Marines. Plus they can't swim.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:22 am

Autobot032 wrote:
First Gen wrote:When someone is against the Marine Corps they are my enemy. Thats not American, thats not "supporting the troops", that's hippie peace and love bull that is so far off the reality scale it makes alien robots from the planet Cybertron coming to Earth extremely possible. It is something that cannot be tolerated, less we have anarchy.

See, there's one of the reasons people protest the war and the war-mongerers behind it.

"You're with me or against me" is a TERRIBLE way to see your fellow countrymen.

It's considered Un-American to strive for peace and oppose the war? It's mentalities like that that that take away our rights.

Look, I'm grateful that you and your fellow servicemen put yourselves on the front line to save us, each and everyday. I truly thank you. I think that Berkley is run by idiots and that idiocy reigns supreme on *both* sides.

You must remember though, you're protecting all freedoms, and opinions are a part of freedom. And I know what you're going to say next "Well then maybe that's one freedom we shouldn't protect." (or something equally frightening.)

You know what? I'm out of this conversation. It's becoming quite uncomfortable and it's heartbreaking.

Look Auto, I understand your point. and to a degree I agree with it. Nothing is solved by violence, yet it is prevelent in our society. Its inescapable.

So why fight those who defend the country instead of lobbying Congress? We, the Marines and servicemembers, don't make the decisions to go to battle, we do as we are ordered.

Go after those that start the wars, not those that fight them. They carry signs that say "Bring the Troops Home" what they really should say is "Bringe em home but not to Berkely". Its hypocrisy at its worst.

In the end the Marine Corps and all service branches will move on. I say get out of Berkely Devil Dogs, that town doesn't deserve the country's finest among them.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:24 am

Evolution Prime wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Also, being in the Marine Corps you're basically the Army with boats...boats on loan from the Navy, but boats nonetheless.

Shhh.... Don't tell this to the Marines, but they are apart of the Department of the Navy, hence they really actually in the Navy.

Yeah, we're a Department of the Navy.

The MEN'S Department. lol

I know Prime, thats horribly old. God bless the Navy, I love them damm swashbuckling squids. :grin:

by **Pyrostrata** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:51 am

First Gen wrote:Yeah, we're a Department of the Navy.

The MEN'S Department. lol

I know Prime, thats horribly old. God bless the Navy, I love them damm swashbuckling squids.

LOL! You sound like my brother when you talk of the Navy! :lol:

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:17 pm

jazzrules wrote:As a foreigner who doesn't know anything about the American military recruitment process, and the freedoms that you're constitution gives you, I probably shouldn't comment on this topic. BUT:

It doesn't seem to me as though this place is saying "we don't respect members of our armed forces", rather they are trying to protect their citizens in the only way they can see.

It doesn't seem like if you're a member of the Army/Navy/Air Force you'll be hounded out of town with burning torches and pitchforks - unless you try to convince people to sign up.

The argument about it being un-American to not support the war, I feel is a particularly pointless one. Just because you don't support some things your country does, doesn't mean you don't love your country. For example, there are plenty of people here in the UK who think that the Royal Family should be abolished (in fact I often wonder why we need them), but that doesn't mean we don't love our country.

In closing, please don't shoot me if you don't agree with what I'm saying, but sometimes things like this are easier to understand if you are an impartial observer.

I can totally understand you on the Royal family. Your tariff's are like 50% because of them right? Thats insane.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:27 pm

First Gen wrote:
Evolution Prime wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Also, being in the Marine Corps you're basically the Army with boats...boats on loan from the Navy, but boats nonetheless.

Shhh.... Don't tell this to the Marines, but they are apart of the Department of the Navy, hence they really actually in the Navy.

Yeah, we're a Department of the Navy.

The MEN'S Department. lol

I know Prime, thats horribly old. God bless the Navy, I love them damm swashbuckling squids.

My Dad was in the Navy! I probably have a brother somewhere in the Philippines! As do many children of Navy servicemen!

First Gen wrote:So why fight those who defend the country instead of lobbying Congress? We, the Marines and servicemembers, don't make the decisions to go to battle, we do as we are ordered.

To risk sounding too much like an episode of The Brady Bunch...I never thought of it that way.

Recruiters and soldiers aren't the reason we're fighting in Iraq. They're just pointed in any direction and told what to shoot.

I wouldn't blame the current Congress for what we're in. I'd blame the last Congress, not just the Republicans, but I figure a few Democrats were responsible as well.

News Credits: 4 · by **jazzrules** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:32 pm

First Gen wrote:
jazzrules wrote:As a foreigner who doesn't know anything about the American military recruitment process, and the freedoms that you're constitution gives you, I probably shouldn't comment on this topic. BUT:

It doesn't seem to me as though this place is saying "we don't respect members of our armed forces", rather they are trying to protect their citizens in the only way they can see.

It doesn't seem like if you're a member of the Army/Navy/Air Force you'll be hounded out of town with burning torches and pitchforks - unless you try to convince people to sign up.

The argument about it being un-American to not support the war, I feel is a particularly pointless one. Just because you don't support some things your country does, doesn't mean you don't love your country. For example, there are plenty of people here in the UK who think that the Royal Family should be abolished (in fact I often wonder why we need them), but that doesn't mean we don't love our country.

In closing, please don't shoot me if you don't agree with what I'm saying, but sometimes things like this are easier to understand if you are an impartial observer.

I can totally understand you on the Royal family. Your tariff's are like 50% because of them right? Thats insane.

I haven't the foggiest how much tax goes to them (mainly because they don't like us to know, but also because when they are on the news I usually don't pay attention). All I know is that they are allowed a ridiculous amount of public money to spend as they see fit.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:54 pm

Shadowman wrote:My Dad was in the Navy! I probably have a brother somewhere in the Philippines! As do many children of Navy servicemen!

lol, I always kidded with my older bro, who was in the Army and spent 4 years in Germany, that one day some German accented kid would show up at my door looking for his father.

News Credits: 1 · by **tech348** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:29 am

The city council of bizerkely and probably most of there populace are a bunch of tree hugging a-holes. What pisses me off is they said the Marines aren't welcome in berkeley and when the Government replied with no government funding for your pathetic city, the city council retracted there statement. I don't get it they don't want the Marines but they sure do want the Government assistance. Berkeley had the gall to say your taking from programs to help the unfortunate, but yet they have enough time and money to debate this stupid issue. Go Marines Semper Fi.