The Energon Pub

[#1 Signal Lancer fan]

I think a big part of it is the line "I'm done saving you." While D-16 had saved Orion multiple times in the story, that didn't really feel like it was part of what made him turn. To me, that line just doesn't really read as "You betrayed me" enough for D-16's big turning point.

The thing is, "I'm done saving you!" Is the culmination of their entire relationship, since up until they learned the truth, "saving Orion" from trouble is what we're supposed to take as being what D had done for most of their entire friendship. Orion gets into trouble, and D gets him out of trouble. Very "Prince of Egypt" vibes going on.[/quote]

That's a great point about the line. Also I hadn't noticed the 'Prince of Egypt' connection before.

But I guess I just needed to feel more of D-16's feelings of betrayal. Looking at the events of the film from a plot perspective, it makes logical sense that he would feel betrayed, but from a character perspective, I don't really get that from D-16 in his dialogue, voice, or body language.

I do get feelings of betrayal from him towards Sentinel Prime and society as a whole, but never towards Orion.

[PerfectVision]

One major incoherence:how they found the recording of Alpha Trion,this dead character would have to be a witness AND to be obsessed with this scene if he was an attacker before dying at Iacon.And found by an idiot since long?Way too mysterious i guess.Dark humor when they tell it to Elita,ha!
Bee still received energon despite being practically rejected?Not for long probably.

[Glyph]

Do you mean the recording they found in Steve's head when they met B-127? That one seemed ok to me, as it was a recording of a distress call at the time of the attack, and it made sense that Sentinel would have thrown it in the garbage chute to dispose of it. B-127 clearly didn't know it was there.

The one that bothered me on a rewatch was the Alpha Trion narration on the data recording right at the start, when Orion broke into the archives, as that one talked about the Matrix being lost and would have to have been recorded some time after Sentinel's coup. (Maybe I should just assume Cybertron also suffers from AI celebrity voiceovers)

[PerfectVision]

It was a quick attack,too quick in a different location,too much distance.The primes weren't on their own?Their corpses weren't in Iacon.He was an attacker or an ally who survived? Died of starvation like Bee would have?EDIT:only desactivated like Alpha who was still alive,he was able of telekinesis i noticed but i don't see at what moment and how.
A radio contact?Still too quick and don't forget the view on him,Alpha wakened stuck in alert mode like he got neutralized too quickly.
The recording of Sentinel obeying to the quintessons,what is the filming?The mind like from Airachnid.Alpha uses telepathy?

[Glyph]

I'd have to check, but from what I recall the recording Orion found was sent at the time of the Quintesson attack on the Primes, which I'm sure Alpha Trion would have had time to send. I don't think the thing they found was an actual bot who was there, just a data chip holding the recording which had been thrown in the waste disposal.

For the recording of Sentinel kneeling to the Quintessons - yeah, that was meant to be from Airachnid's memory of the meeting that happened while Orion & co watched, I believe, even though the angle shouldn't really be right for where she was standing.

[PerfectVision]

The chip was inside and noisy,Bee could have heard it,an ennemy would have broken it easily,Alpha managed to create one of himself for the distress call and the whole attack just so he can show it to the characters,one of something he hasn't seen by himself before it got broken,the reason they had to capture Airachnid.Telepathy i suppose but the distress call location is highly mysterious.

These recordings use some kind of orange sand.

We haven't seen her victory over him or how Elita won over her entirely,two off screen defeats!

[Glyph]

Okay, so there were three separate recordings:

The one in Steve's head was Alpha Trion's distress call, which appeared to be just a regular radio/holo transmission and not a 'sand' recording. That included A3's SOS message (which showed just him speaking, the same way a holo transmission works in Star Wars) and the co-ordinates of the cave. Presumably that message was intercepted by Airachnid or another one of Sentinel's lackeys and disposed of in the garbage chute. That one just led them to the cave and had no further use in the plot. Why didn't Bee recognise it? Eh, he's not smart and the full message didn't play until Orion dislodged it from Steve's head. (Which is also very much like the R2-D2 message in A New Hope, now I think about it!)

Then there's the 'sand' recording that A3 made in the cave, containing Sentinel's betrayal (as witnessed by A3 50 cycles ago) and also his present-day submission to the Quintessons as witnessed by Orion & co. That could be a goof as A3 didn't seem to be with them when they saw that. Mmmmmaybe A3 also watched it and then just went and sat back down in the cave? Or maybe some level of copying from Orion & co's memories, IDK. That one was destroyed in Airachnid's attack on the High Guard anyway, necessitating the capture of Airachnid as you say.

And then finally there's Airachnid's memories of Sentinel's monologue to D-16 and the captives in his tower, plus the meeting with the Quintessons. Those are the only ones broadcast to the Iacon populace and have nothing to do with Alpha Trion at all.

I think that's everything.

As to Airachnid - yeah, I suppose her defeat of Alpha Trion wasn't fully shown, but I thought it was pretty clear. And Elita was definitely beating her with her own leg on-screen!

[PerfectVision]

Orion Pax discovers the broken chip in his hand,some sand comes out of it:i don't remember at which moment D-16 lost it,'even surprised it wasn't left on.

The distress call may be logical but not convincing to me.A way to make the story progress when it wasn't possible,a perfect crime would have been stale obviously,corpses are how you do it,that's well known.

[Glyph]

D-16 gave it back to Orion just before the High Guard ambushed them. Beyond that...

#shrug#
Well, I've told you exactly what the film shows so from there you're on your own, sorry.

[#1 Signal Lancer fan]

Do you mean the recording they found in Steve's head when they met B-127? That one seemed ok to me, as it was a recording of a distress call at the time of the attack, and it made sense that Sentinel would have thrown it in the garbage chute to dispose of it. B-127 clearly didn't know it was there.

The one that bothered me on a rewatch was the Alpha Trion narration on the data recording right at the start, when Orion broke into the archives, as that one talked about the Matrix being lost and would have to have been recorded some time after Sentinel's coup. (Maybe I should just assume Cybertron also suffers from AI celebrity voiceovers)

And it was probably discarded some time ago too. It would have been destroyed if B-127 hadn't used it to make Steve.

As for the narration, I just assumed that the recording was altered by Sentinel. If he's trying to push a certain narrative, he'd want to be sure that the records back him up. That would also explain why it ends so abruptly.

[PerfectVision]

"He didn't know it was there" and "He used it to create Steve" are two different things.If the chip was disposed without container:it would have broke,they are pseudo hourglasses apparently.

The message at the beginning is completely fabricated,no authenticity.

After the distress call out of nowhere,the second nebulous point is the population who has a cog:we only see a race and Airachnid fighting,their functions aren't clear."Mirage is an elitist",for sure!