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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:[*]After the race, a female voice paged "Dr. Ratchet" to report to "Medical Bay 94" (this one also went by quick, and could have been a different number like "84").
Blastback wrote:As others have said, the only real major criticism I have is that Megatron's fall to the dark side could have been executed a bit better, maybe have a bit more run time to show him slipping into evil. I get the motives for turning into Megatron, but letting Orion fall to his seeming death felt rushed.
#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:Blastback wrote:As others have said, the only real major criticism I have is that Megatron's fall to the dark side could have been executed a bit better, maybe have a bit more run time to show him slipping into evil. I get the motives for turning into Megatron, but letting Orion fall to his seeming death felt rushed.
An extra 15 or so minutes near the end would have gone a long way for this.
Another small complaint that I have with this movie: It suffers from something a lot of movies do where the good guys kill a lot of faceless enemies, but when it comes time to defeat the big bad, suddenly killing makes them evil.
We watched Bumblebee cut faceless enemies in half, who we're never told are drones or not sentient. But when it comes time to kill Robot Hitler, suddenly killing makes Megatron just as bad as Sentinel?
JazZeke wrote:
Yeah, no, that's been getting on my nerves lately too. And arguably it's even worse to kill mooks than the big bad, because some of them could just be there out of coercion.
They kind of did. Orion did say something akin to the future couldn't be built on killing. That would make it seem he was not concerned with either Sentinel or Megatron in particular, but that the future should be built on positive intentions.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:JazZeke wrote:
Yeah, no, that's been getting on my nerves lately too. And arguably it's even worse to kill mooks than the big bad, because some of them could just be there out of coercion.
With this movie in particular I could see the argument being made that Orion didn’t care about stopping Sentinel from being killed, but wanted to save his friend from killing out of revenge and anger (Vs killing in a combat situation), but if that was the intention they didn’t do a good job making it clear.
Rodimus Prime wrote:While I agree with that notion in general, in this particular case Sentinel deserved to die. But what gave Megatron the right to execute him? Sentinel had done his atrocity to countless miners, nor just the 2 of them. If that was the reasoning, they each had just as much right as Megatron did.
Pretty sure that's what he was implying. It didn't need to be said out loud.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:While I agree with that notion in general, in this particular case Sentinel deserved to die. But what gave Megatron the right to execute him? Sentinel had done his atrocity to countless miners, nor just the 2 of them. If that was the reasoning, they each had just as much right as Megatron did.
I think a simple “He needs to stand trial” would have made Orion’s case a lot stronger
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
He wasn't implying anything. He never even referred to Sentinel or his specific crime and punishment. Megatron could've attempted to kill innocent bystanders and Orion's argument could've been the same. He was just telling Megatron to stop because they can't build the future on violence.Sabrblade wrote:Pretty sure that's what he was implying. It didn't need to be said out loud.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:While I agree with that notion in general, in this particular case Sentinel deserved to die. But what gave Megatron the right to execute him? Sentinel had done his atrocity to countless miners, nor just the 2 of them. If that was the reasoning, they each had just as much right as Megatron did.
I think a simple “He needs to stand trial” would have made Orion’s case a lot stronger
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Remember when TF: Prime introduced Smokescreen and people accused him of being a stand-in or even ripoff of Hot Rod? Well, TF One has basically done the same thing again with Orion Pax, but this time no one's complaining because it's Optimus Prime himself who's given this treatment instead of some other turbo-revvin' young punk set up to replace him.
Yeah but Cheetor's arc was gradual and wasn't planned out from the start, while Hot Shot (who, as it turns out, actually was named "Hot Rod" in Japan) only filled in for Optimus for three episodes until he came back after that very brief time, so he wasn't like the permanent replacement that Hot Rod/Rodimus was intended to be. Both G1 Hot Rod and TF One Orion had their ascension arcs done ceremoniously and all-at-once in a single movie.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Remember when TF: Prime introduced Smokescreen and people accused him of being a stand-in or even ripoff of Hot Rod? Well, TF One has basically done the same thing again with Orion Pax, but this time no one's complaining because it's Optimus Prime himself who's given this treatment instead of some other turbo-revvin' young punk set up to replace him.
While I think Hot Rod would have been a better fit than Smokescreen, I never got the backlash. Hot Rod isn't the only character to have an arc like that (See: Beast Wars/Machines Cheetor and Armada Hot Shot).
I agree that there's a nice poetic rhyming sense to it. It's just unfortunate that the backlash over how it was executed in the 86 movie led to Hasbro never again allowing Hot Rod/Rodimus to become Optimus's permanent replacement on a mainstream level, with modern media since the early 2000s (beginning particularly with Dreamwave's G1 comics) instead depicting Optimus as the Chosen One destined to bear the Matrix (The Covenant of Primus book even going as far as to make him the literal reincarnation of one of the Thirteen in order to really hammer this notion in), when being the Matrix's divine Chosen One was originally supposed to be Hot Rod's thing.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:I like the idea that it's sort of a cycle. Optimus Prime started that way as Orion Pax, so when he meets Hot Rod/Hot Shot/Smokescreen, he chooses them as his successor because they remind him of himself before he was a Prime.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Psychout wrote:Im not scared of a gender confused minibot!
Recall that after they first got their cogs and D did his whole "No, I want to kill him!" speech, Orion started trying to calm down D and make him reconsider. But then they had to get away from Sentinel's trackers and the pressure was on. They had their first transformations and their first battle, in which D cut loose for the first time in his life and really let out his more primal instincts, which he found he really enjoyed. Orion again tried to ease him down, but D had gained a new sense of self-confidence and took charge of their journey back to Iacon. Orion told him to be careful with the map, but the newly-confident D-16 started to get annoyed with Orion doubting his judgement and, with as much control as he could stand to muster, D told him to back off.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:The one thing I think they could have executed better is his turn from Orion. They did a good job showing the gap between them start to build, but D-16 choosing to drop Orion still feels like a huge jump in his character.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:And now, in D's moment of long-awaited satisfaction, that one person who's been a constant fixture in his life, his best friend, was seemingly choosing Sentinel (the very object of all of D-16's hatred and vengeance) over D-16. And in that one fleeting moment where D came to his senses and tried to save Orion from falling, the moment passed when D asks him why he did what he did, and all Orion could say to him was "D... no..."
...
How could Orion pick Sentinel over him? Because it turns out Orion was just like Sentinel. A fraud, a liar, a traitor. And all traitors must pay. Must die!
"...I'm done saving you!"
The thing is, "I'm done saving you!" Is the culmination of their entire relationship, since up until they learned the truth, "saving Orion" from trouble is what we're supposed to take as being what D had done for most of their entire friendship. Orion gets into trouble, and D gets him out of trouble. Very "Prince of Egypt" vibes going on.#1 Signal Lancer fan wrote:Sabrblade wrote:And now, in D's moment of long-awaited satisfaction, that one person who's been a constant fixture in his life, his best friend, was seemingly choosing Sentinel (the very object of all of D-16's hatred and vengeance) over D-16. And in that one fleeting moment where D came to his senses and tried to save Orion from falling, the moment passed when D asks him why he did what he did, and all Orion could say to him was "D... no..."
...
How could Orion pick Sentinel over him? Because it turns out Orion was just like Sentinel. A fraud, a liar, a traitor. And all traitors must pay. Must die!
"...I'm done saving you!"
I guess these are the parts that I thought could have been executed better. The buildup, as you laid out above, works really well.
But in the moment of Orion jumping in front of the blast and D-16 asking why, the way it played out didn't register as betrayal for me. It just seemed like D-16 was shocked and upset that he shot his friend. So, when D-16 shifts his tone, it felt like it came out of nowhere within that moment.
I think a big part of it is the line "I'm done saving you." While D-16 had saved Orion multiple times in the story, that didn't really feel like it was part of what made him turn. To me, that line just doesn't really read as "You betrayed me" enough for D-16's big turning point.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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