The Energon Pub

I know Michael Bay wasn't concerned about continuity or lore or anything like that, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that permanently destroying a spark was a very very very difficult thing to do. Like you'd practically have to blow up a chunk of the planet that the transformer was standing on in order to destroy its spark. Does that mean Jazz didn't really die? If so why didn't Ratchet repair him?

1. No, sparks aren't indestructible, otherwise Transformers wouldn't be afraid of dying. They could just shoot into battle without a care.

2. It says on the G1-styled Movie jazz's bio that Ratchet DID rebuild him.

Buttz wrote:I know Michael Bay wasn't concerned about continuity or lore or anything like that, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that permanently destroying a spark was a very very very difficult thing to do. Like you'd practically have to blow up a chunk of the planet that the transformer was standing on in order to destroy its spark. Does that mean Jazz didn't really die? If so why didn't Ratchet repair him?

Even if this holds true in this continuity(because it IS a different 'universe' than other series), the spark seems to function like a soul; so just because the spark[read: soul] is near-immortal, doesn't mean your BODY is immortal.

So I don't really see the problem.

Buttz wrote:I know Michael Bay wasn't concerned about continuity or lore or anything like that, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that permanently destroying a spark was a very very very difficult thing to do. Like you'd practically have to blow up a chunk of the planet that the transformer was standing on in order to destroy its spark. Does that mean Jazz didn't really die? If so why didn't Ratchet repair him?

How can you have continuity on an origin story?

apparently they arent. lol

Btw, do you really need to start a new thread every time you want to bash Bay with a thinly veiled attempt at a movie question.

Robinson wrote:Btw, do you really need to start a new thread every time you want to bash Bay with a thinly veiled attempt at a movie question.

I thought it was a valid question. The Bay-bashing will subside with time probably.

Also I apologize for not being clear with the "continuity" bit. I guess what I meant was more like consistency with the source material. Like if in the first X-Men movie Professor X had been Wolverine's dad or something.

You answered your own question in this thread's title. They're NEARLY indestructible! NEARLY! Very few things can destroy a spark, and this is apparently one of them.

They may be indestructible but they also may be very hard to shove back into a body.

Gierling wrote:They may be indestructible but they also may be very hard to shove back into a body.

I hate doing that.

Buttz wrote:I know Michael Bay wasn't concerned about continuity or lore or anything like that, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that permanently destroying a spark was a very very very difficult thing to do. Like you'd practically have to blow up a chunk of the planet that the transformer was standing on in order to destroy its spark. Does that mean Jazz didn't really die? If so why didn't Ratchet repair him?

An ordinary spark seems like it can be extinguished if the body takes enough damage(or goes to join the Allspark, though that may be a mute point in the movie), and doesn't get into statis lock. I sort of suspect Jazz's body was just too heavily damaged for stasis to be a possibility. If memory serves, in the original script, Megatron tears out and maybe even devours Jazz's spark. I do think the less brutal demise DOES give them an out to bring him back, though.

Also, Starscream was considered a "mutant" because his spark was indestructible(this was how Beast Wars explained his ghost from Season 1). They created Protoform X, AKA Rampage in order to duplicate it. *Beast Wars spoiler to follow, just in case you haven't seen it...* I think the amount of damage you're thinking of might've been based on how Rampage was finally offed. Depth Charge shoved a piece of raw energon into his chest, and ignited his spark, which caused a massive explosion.

...the sad thing is, all that, yet I can't remember the quadradic formula. =p

KoH4711 wrote:

Buttz wrote:I know Michael Bay wasn't concerned about continuity or lore or anything like that, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that permanently destroying a spark was a very very very difficult thing to do. Like you'd practically have to blow up a chunk of the planet that the transformer was standing on in order to destroy its spark. Does that mean Jazz didn't really die? If so why didn't Ratchet repair him?

An ordinary spark seems like it can be extinguished if the body takes enough damage(or goes to join the Allspark, though that may be a mute point in the movie), and doesn't get into statis lock. I sort of suspect Jazz's body was just too heavily damaged for stasis to be a possibility. If memory serves, in the original script, Megatron tears out and maybe even devours Jazz's spark. I do think the less brutal demise DOES give them an out to bring him back, though.

Also, Starscream was considered a "mutant" because his spark was indestructible(this was how Beast Wars explained his ghost from Season 1). They created Protoform X, AKA Rampage in order to duplicate it. *Beast Wars spoiler to follow, just in case you haven't seen it...* I think the amount of damage you're thinking of might've been based on how Rampage was finally offed. Depth Charge shoved a piece of raw energon into his chest, and ignited his spark, which caused a massive explosion.

...the sad thing is, all that, yet I can't remember the quadradic formula. =p

Starscream (G1/BW) was created from Unicron. and if Unicron is still alive, so is SS. (cus Unicron never dies, he just shuts down for a bit, then builds up and attacks again)

Remember when Dinobot died in BW season 2? his body took so much damage and he kept overriding his shut down protocol. and was too far gone after the battle for stasis lock to help. then his spark left him to join the Allspark. relate that to Jazz getting his weak-ass torn in two, they just didnt show what happened to his spark.


oh, and here




ax2 + bx + c = 0


x = negative b plus/minus the square root of [b squared minus 4ac] all divided by 2a

does that help?

Shadowman wrote:2. It says on the G1-styled Movie jazz's bio that Ratchet DID rebuild him.

Shame that's not canon in the movie.

KoH4711 wrote: ...the sad thing is, all that, yet I can't remember the quadradic formula. =p

Quadratic Equation:
X is equal to negative B plus or minus the squared root of B squared minus 4AC, all over 2A.
I wouldn't have written it out like that, but I don't know how to do symbols for things like "plus/minus" or "squared root" on this computer.

Greg_Norris wrote:





Starscream (G1/BW) was created from Unicron. and if Unicron is still alive, so is SS. (cus Unicron never dies, he just shuts down for a bit, then builds up and attacks again)

Starscream was created from Unicron?

Zombie Starscream wrote:

Greg_Norris wrote:





Starscream (G1/BW) was created from Unicron. and if Unicron is still alive, so is SS. (cus Unicron never dies, he just shuts down for a bit, then builds up and attacks again)

Starscream was created from Unicron?

yes as was Tarantulus and select members of the Tripredacus council in BW.

I think the Transformers are just super humble with their "temporary deaths". Like Skyfire. He "died" they were sad. Left him. Came back. Revived. yey, everything is cool again. And Magnus. He "dies", then gets put back together and lives. lol. They have temporary deaths that they treat very seriously, as if they were gone forever.

Ratchet COULD repair him. Since he was just torn in half, not blown up or horribly damaged. Bots lose limbs and pieces all the time. Aslong as they can put it back, it's fine.

And I agree with Cornicer. Personally I thought the spark was their soul. So it would make it a "near indestructable" physical form of the spark. But yea, body and functon wise they can die. Like any energy in the universe, it's not ever lost, just reused somewhere else. And like their spark, it's physical form can be destroyed, but the essense of it goes back to the matrix. D: From what I can tell?