The Energon Pub

Oh so Jazz was the second-in-command? Wow.

Raymond101 wrote:Oh so Jazz was the second-in-command? Wow.

It kind of depends. There was also Ironhide and Prowl. But I'm betting its going to be Prowl since they can't very well leave the other Autobots on Cybertron without a leader.

Ironhide was more of Optimus's bodyguard, weapons specialist and also trained Arcee. But I don't think he's a commander.

Prowl sounds cool right now.

Raymond101 wrote:Ironhide was more of Optimus's bodyguard, weapons specialist and also trained Arcee. But I don't think he's a commander.

Prowl sounds cool right now.

I don't know what you mean by cool but I take it its positive? I wonder if they'll make him as much of a prick as IDW does.

yup, it's positive. I don't really know Prowl, but a second-in-command is always cool.

I have my nitpicks about the movie but it doesn't stop it from being my favorite movie of all time. There seemed to be a couple of plotholes and mistakes, but hell if anyone's seen G1, they'd know they messed up on purpose to please the fans joking.

But seriously would it have really been a transformers movie if everything was flawless, everything made sense and there were no mistakes? It really was truly a cartoon come to life

Micheal Bay's best movie to date. Btw why does everyone hate this guy so much? I'll admit, Armegeddon sucks, and I haven't seen Pearl Harbor, but Bad Boys 1, Bad Boys 2, The Rock, and the Island are all excellent movies! I knew as soon as they casted the guy, that with his obssession with putting gratuitious amounts of action into movies, he would be perfect for a movie about 2 robot factions fighting one another on a planet earth.

Burn wrote:*yawn*

Another thread devolves into throat bursting opinion shoving.

Yea... as if they couldn't find one of other 17 on here already

So sick of movie whiners.

Burn wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:This is the $hit that kills threads...When the first policemen leaves a post like this killing the momemtum of the conversation, but you do it so well...

Sharpwing wrote:And also with this. No offence Burn, but he's just right. You don't have to go to every level to defend this movie. We know you like it very, very much... move on please?

You two obviously saw the purpose of this thread differently to what I did.

Original post. He asks if we liked it or not.

It was that simple, a yes or a no.

I said I did, I "moved on". But low and behold what happens? It devolves into ANOTHER thread where lovers and haters feel the urge to shove their collective opinions down the throats of the other side.

So perhaps it's time we all moved on? I mean after all there's so many other threads discussing the same thing ...

Burn is it me or are most of these "I don't like TF1 topics" started over and over again. How many have you counted?

lodelco wrote:

Raymond101 wrote:Oh so Jazz was the second-in-command? Wow.

It kind of depends. There was also Ironhide and Prowl. But I'm betting its going to be Prowl since they can't very well leave the other Autobots on Cybertron without a leader.

As far as the movie goes, yeah, Jazz is second-in-command. Everytime I saw the movie, when he says his "What's crackin'" line, half the audience laughed, so I couldn't hear what Prime said apart from, "Designation: Jazz".

It wasn't until I saw the clip on youtube that I heard Prime introduce Jazz as "My first lieutenant". So that would make him second-in-command, while Ratchet is the med officer, Ironhide is the weapons specialist, and Bumblebee is the scout, which I think is why he was on Earth first.

I liked it, more than i thought i would, yeah there was alot i wish was different about it, and they really didn't have enough screentime for the transformers, but still, i liked it

the movie was that good, its was by far the most enjoyable movie of the summer. though Die Hard 4 pushes has a noteworthy mention.

My only gripe with transformers is no decepticon scheming time. In the prequel you ahve the boyz plannign and scheming. Not in the movie. lets hoep to see some soon. I hope they have some scheming for the DVD if they have the prequel on mars when they destroy the rover, and than have the scene of starscream, blackout and co plannign would be good.

though i doubt it

but overall top film!!

The movie was fun. But not anything really wonderful. I would not go around saying "it was the best movie evah"

I think I was more stoked for the prequel Novel than the actual movie.

i think it was the best movie ever

No. Absolutely not.

Here's a quick story: the hype about the movie got me back into collecting TF's after a 7 year hiatus. I owned over a thousand TF's, G1, Beast Wars, Neo, RID, etc..and was very excited to start collecting again. I was worried about the designs, but the first toy in hand changed my mind. I wasn't expecting G1, wasn't expecting Beast Wars, but I was so excited to see big **** robots on screen I could hardly stand it.

I walked out of the movie having never been more disappointed in a film. A month later, I'm not even checking the toy aisles anymore. The movie has killed my enjoyment of the entire hobby, and the subsequent discussions on the boards have done nothing to resurrect it.

I voted for Soundwave in the USA Today poll, and then immediately regretted it...cause I like Soundwave, and I don't want to see him a) have one line b) look nothing like any of his previous incarnations c) have no characterization and d) get shot to death by humans after 3 minutes of screen time. I should have voted for Mirage.

So, I guess, after living with TF's for most of my 31 years and loving almost every incarnation so far, and eagerly waiting for the movie, I've come to the crossroads that my personal level of expectation is now set higher than the resultant creative decision. I'd like to continue to enjoy TF's, but no matter how much I love a concept, I'm not going to lower my standards for nostalgia's sake.

decepticonjon wrote:

Riotflea wrote:(Bad language ahead)
The poster "HNB" (scroll down) on this videogaming site sums up my feelings a bit more in detail:
http://www.n-philes.com/forums/showthre ... ge=2&pp=20

thanks riotflea, that linked review was awesome. exactly how i feel.
i feel like i'm in a club of 7 people.

Count me in that club. Here's a question, though: of the people who really like the film, how many of you are primarily Autobot fans (ie., favorite character is Optimus, BB, Jazz, Rodimus, etc) and of the people who really dislike the film, how many are primarily Decepticon fans? I'm more of a Con fan myself, and I was curious if there's a factional bias towards the film.

Asderiphel wrote:The movie has killed my enjoyment of the entire hobby,

See, I don't understand why this happens.

I don't like the non-transforming stuff, but I don't let it ruin the rest of the 20+ years of TF history for me.

I didn't particulary enjoy the Armada/Energon/Cybertron cartoons, nor did I really like the gimmicks and some of the toys absoloutely sucked.

But I didn't let it ruin the rest of the 20+ years of TF history for me.

So i'm curious as to why people (not just you Asderiphel, because i've seen the same statement from others) are allowing the movie to erase 20+ years of enjoyment.

I don't see how it couldn't be all that good? It has everything that we as Transformers fan know and love. Giant robots beating the tar out of each other while racing for an object that could destroy the planet. That is the pure essence of Transformers.

It was excellent intro movie for the other 99% of the planet that have no idea what the Transformers are about, out side of the fact they Transform. Just because some people have collections in the 100s, and all the comics, all the TV shows and everything, does not mean that the movie should have catered to them, made absolutely no money and tanked because nobody outside the most hardcore fan had any clue what was going on (although this probably would have made a few board members undeniable happy).

As for ruining a childhood..re-watch G1...seriously it's not as good as we think. We think it's good b/c of the nostalgia factor. Neither are the toys. Some of them are bricks with movable arms.

This movie will be nothing but good for the hobby, generating more interest in the series that came before as people begin to look into the mythos of the Transformers universe. That in turn creates demand. And seriously, why wouldn't we welcome new fans because of this movie?

I love G1, but this movie is an excellent start to a more adult-oriented series that should continue long into the future. So yes, it was that good because it accopmplished it's mission. BIG TIME.

FuriousRodimus wrote:I don't see how it couldn't be all that good? It has everything that we as Transformers fan know and love. Giant robots beating the tar out of each other while racing for an object that could destroy the planet. That is the pure essence of Transformers.

No, it isn't. It's an extremely shallow take on what Transformers is about, and you almost come of as a caricature of what some of us "Haters" consider to be a TF Movie worshiper.

"It's about EXPLOSIONS right?"

What you said could describe some Gundam series, or Macross. What made Transformers unique were the characters. The way they looked, the way the acted, their history as a race. The only other iteration that did it "right" was Beast Wars, and that used totally different characters.

It was excellent intro movie for the other 99% of the planet that have no idea what the Transformers are about, out side of the fact they Transform. Just because some people have collections in the 100s, and all the comics, all the TV shows and everything, does not mean that the movie should have catered to them, made absolutely no money and tanked because nobody outside the most hardcore fan had any clue what was going on (although this probably would have made a few board members undeniable happy).

Are you even thinking about what you're saying? Why would doing a movie more like G1, more like what the collectors want alienate people in that manner when everything is going to be introduced anyway? Most good scriptwriters avoid that kind of thing. After all, G1 had to be introduced at one point too.

"As for ruining a childhood..re-watch G1...seriously it's not as good as we think. We think it's good b/c of the nostalgia factor. Neither are the toys. Some of them are bricks with movable arms. "

That doesn't make them "bad toys". I'm the opposite, after hearing all the bad rap about G1 I was expecting the cartoon to be **** as I hadn't seen it in so long. It's not. It's actually really enjoyable. It uses a lot of hokey 60s comic book stuff, alright, but it WAS a kids cartoon that occasionally throws something in if the parents are watching.
For what it was, it was marvelous. And that's why it's revered. Also, with the toys, I picked up some minibots and ruffled through my Garage, and I can really see why I loved them as a kid. You only need a little bit of posability to have fun with them. The G1 toys had a visual uniqueness, a quirkiness to them, that hasn't been duplicated since.

For what the TF movie is meant to be, it misses the mark more than the G1 cartoon did.
This movie will be nothing but good for the hobby, generating more interest in the series that came before as people begin to look into the mythos of the Transformers universe. That in turn creates demand. And seriously, why wouldn't we welcome new fans because of this movie?

I love G1, but this movie is an excellent start to a more adult-oriented series that should continue long into the future. So yes, it was that good because it accopmplished it's mission. BIG TIME.

It made lots of money, as was expected, and gained TF a little more mainstream recognition(which honestly the transforming Citreon bots, etc., probably did just as well). But I don't think it accomplished it's mission near as much as it thought it did. It introduced a lot of confusing concepts, mainly the Allspark, machines coming to life, that a lot of people just don't "get". I can imagine Protoforms instead of a ship landing confused a lot of people, too.

It's not a great intro to what Transformers is about. If I were to give someone a pack on what Transformers was about, I'd give them a DVD with More than Meets the eye, Fire in the Sky, Heavy Metal War, Starscream's Brigade/Revenge of Bruticus, the 86 movie, Five Faces of Darkness, Dark Awakening, the original 4 comic run, a few random Marvel stories, Target: 2006 and all the major Unicron/Matrix related arcs up until All Fall Down, Generation 2 Dark Designs and Rage in Heaven. The second DVD I'd give would be a ton of Beast Wars stuff, I believe that's kind of a seperate entity in many ways, though.

The '07 movie would be relatively low on the list, mainly because it deals mostly with humans, not Transformers, and is a bit too "hocus pocus". If kids can deal with robots taking the spotlights, I should hope grown adults would be able to.

An extremely shallow take on what is an essence a toy commercial/product pusher? Seriously, doesn't anyone else see the irony in that?

It had our heroes acting as they should, and the villains acting as they should for the small part we saw them for. This movie was far from perfect, but it makes people who had no interest the series beforehand interested than it has to have accomplished its mission. Agreed characterization was light, and should have been turned over to more experienced writers (Furman, or McDonough would have been good). I'm simply saying that we should wait for the sequels before we start crying about a lack of development. And the same with history, it took to half-way through 2nd season to get much in War Dawn, and until 3 for FFoD.

As for confusing concepts, we went from Energon, a mystical fuel, to mini-cons and then back to Energon, to cyber-keys, and now to the All-Spark. It's just a progression of bringing them here to earth.

And it is a great intro into what this series of The Transformers is going to be about. I agree with the episodes you listed as being at the core of what Transformers is about for us inside the hobby already. But those are a very small few out of many that could be considered sub-par (Carnage in C-minor for example).

I was trying to say that if they jumped assuming people already had a wealth of background knowledge and dropped right into heavy story telling, that would have put a lot of people off. Making it too specialized too soon, is what i was trying to get at.

But your great intro is somewhere in the neighborhood of what 9 hours of TV alone? Not to mention the reading of the comics? So twelve hours? Dude, even the LOTR movies didn't cover everything from the books in that entire time. For a 2.5 hour movie, Transformers did a heck of a lot in laying a ground work, without getting mired down in exposition. And yes it used humans alot, but so have most of the series outside of Beast Wars, it gives people an 'in' and a point of relation, it's an old story-telling technique along the lines of the everyman character.

Burn wrote:

Asderiphel wrote:The movie has killed my enjoyment of the entire hobby,

See, I don't understand why this happens.

I don't like the non-transforming stuff, but I don't let it ruin the rest of the 20+ years of TF history for me.

I didn't particulary enjoy the Armada/Energon/Cybertron cartoons, nor did I really like the gimmicks and some of the toys absoloutely sucked.

But I didn't let it ruin the rest of the 20+ years of TF history for me.

So i'm curious as to why people (not just you Asderiphel, because i've seen the same statement from others) are allowing the movie to erase 20+ years of enjoyment.

NP Burn, I'll try and clarify : it hasn't erased my previous enjoyment of all things TF, but it has seriously dampened my enthusiasm for anything in the future. And because my eagerness has been dampened, I find myself less and less likely to become part in discussions, buy TF's, even transform the TF's I have...in part because I don't like the way in which the movie was handled.

I always liked TF, and watched G1 religiously when I was young, and stopped caring in high school. But in my early 20's I started watching Beast Wars, and was intrigued enough to renew my fandom. Some of the episodes were silly, but some (Code of Hero, anyone?) matched, or exceeded, my expectation level. Despite being aimed at kids, it was well written and handled well, and I enjoyed the series. I stopped collecting all toys in 99, sold out (and didn't have to work for a year), and had maintained a casual interest in TF's up until last year when the movie hype (and Classics) started to ramp up.

The movie failed my expectations, and I tried not to have a unrealistic view (Phantom Menace taught me better). But on just about every level, Bay's version left me cold. So it's difficult to remain enthusiastic about an IP that, in my opinion, is now aimed solidly below my expectation level. Will I buy new Classics? Probably. Will I buy Animated Dinobots and Soundwave? Yeah. Will I enjoy TF's with the same reckless abandon? Unfortunately, no. Will I see TF2? Probably not. Depends on Soundwave.

It makes me sad, and I would love to enjoy the movie, but the movie falls far short of entertaining me. If it was named anything besides "Transformers", I would personally decry it as 'unwatchable' and have nothing else to do with it, as it is exactly the type of movie I avoid: spectacle without substance. But my 'bots are in it, so I gave it a shot. The fact I didn't like it, the fact that I was devastated when I left the theater, is like hearing the final nail in the coffin of my childhood. I always considered TF a smarter, better developed, deeply involved mythos than any of the other dozens of properties generated in the 80's, and TF's multiple incarnations, spanning multiple continents, seems to bear that out. The movie, to me, isn't. If that's the direction TF wants to go, so be it, but I don't approve. Maybe when I said 'killed my enjoyment of the hobby', I meant 'outgrown my enjoyment' instead...but when there are a ton of other things in life, and you have to sacrifice for the really important ones, it amounts to the same thing. I don't feel like wasting my time and money on something if that's the best I can expect. I have enjoyed Transformers, but I'm no longer sure how much I will enjoy them...and since I never questioned that before the movie, that's gotta be the movie's fault.

I do sort of have an understanding where you're coming from.

Before the movie came out I had a few "concerns". Those concerns were cast aside though once I saw the movie.

Did I enjoy it? Yes.
Was it Transformers to me? Yes.
Was it perfect? No.
Could it have been better? Most definitely.

I'm primarily a figure collector and I have to admit, there's been more misses than hits with the movie line.

But I haven't let it deter me, I still have a bit of G1 to collect, half a dozen BW or so. Enough to keep me going.

But what's going to fuel collecting those lines more for me is Animated.

I've never been a fan of that style of animation. And from what i've seen of the toys i'm seriously not impressed.

Even though i'm taking a wait and see approach I feel that Animated will not be a major line for me and will probably cut down on me collecting the current line of the moment.

But I won't let it detract me from collecting and enjoying previous lines.

I can understand people's disappointment in the movie, I just don't understand why it would turn them off Transformers completely. Hell, one of the great things about G1 is getting a figure and then hunting down all the missing pieces, cleaning it up, tracking down new stickers and fully restoring them. And i'm going to be doing that while Animated comes and goes and something (hopefully) better comes along.

But you did raise a good point about the discussion, most of the time it will centre around the current line, which means if you're not a fan of the movie you won't have much to say, so come Animated i'll have to find another way to boost my already large post count.

to be honest, this movie left me feeling like when i walked out of seeing that godzilla flick with matthew broderick.
it seemed to be handeled with that tonacity.
think about, with no disregards to bay: i think the rock is a great action movie, and one of my top 25 favorites. however, pearl harbor was unbelievably aweful. it was interepreted the wrong way through writing and whatnot.
so, going into tf's, i new bay was hit and miss. and honestly, bay really didn't care that much. he mentioned several times that he could only stand to watch the first 15 minutes of the original 86 movie.
do you know how incredably poopy that sounds?
for a guy that's going to remake something, he can't even stand to watch anything that the series is based on.
and beyond that, the writers came from a writing the tv show lost, where they have seasons to fill in plot holes. and it shows, they're first movie mi:3 was written like a 5 year old.
but i can get beyond bad writing and poor directing decisions if i like the characters.
but i didn't.
not a single one did a thing for me. sam had some good one liners, but everything else seemed so "pushed" ie: you're more than meets the eye. come on.
beyond the allspark being nothing more than a simple plot device, and robots comming to life and regenerating for no ryme or reason, the robots have to be interesting right?
for the first few transformations.
when they can squeeze them into the story. prime was fun, but he really didn't seem to lead. megs was well, around for 4.5 minutes.
no devlopment or getting to know the robots at all. bb talks with a radio. he's got a good sense of humor.
awesome, oh.. he heavily damages barricade but we're too busy watching frenzy get his head sawed off and turn into a cell phone.
bummer.
wow, cool fight scene with bonecrusher.. could that be the promised frank welker voice that was supposed to be in the movie??!?!
no one knows.
thanks for tying those nostalgic "g1" references in there for us. you're really too kind.
listen,
i didn't want a "g1 movie", i wanted a good movie that i had really hoped for..
but i got an okay movie that spreads the word of transformers, without anyone really knowing anything about them at all. except they can pee on government guys wearing superman underoos.
and like godzilla, we will see this in the 5.50 bin at wally world in two years.
doesn't make not excited about all the things i loved about past series and cannons, and i'm excited about the new animated. i even like some of the toys from this new movie, but in itself, it doesn't do anything for me.

Why are we justifying our liking it? It's not as though liking the movie is a bad thing that we have to explain away or make excuses for... Can't we just say whether or not we liked it and leave it at that?

decepticonjon wrote:he mentioned several times that he could only stand to watch the first 15 minutes of the original 86 movie.
do you know how incredably poopy that sounds?

Not very considering I turn off once the Battle for Autobot City is finished and Prime's dead.

It's pretty crap after that.

Burn wrote:

decepticonjon wrote:he mentioned several times that he could only stand to watch the first 15 minutes of the original 86 movie.
do you know how incredably poopy that sounds?

Not very considering I turn off once the Battle for Autobot City is finished and Prime's dead.

It's pretty crap after that.

hah, dare to be stupid!!
well, i see your point