The Energon Pub

I hear a lot of people say things like “it’s the best thing since G1!” and “Soooo much better than AEC.” these sort of comments I don’t agree with. This show has been the worst TF series ever made in my opinion at least. There’s too many super villains for one thing and when someone says anything about the lame super villains you can expect a “They’re to make the decepticons more threatening!” how do lame brain super villains make the decpticons more threatening? All I’ve seen these super villains make is a very boring episode.

Then there’s the animation, its horrible and some people still fail to notice this. Example something gets tossed/thrown it just sort of glides across the screen. Then at times it looks jittery and real slow, I’ve yet to see animation that looks half decent in this show.

Episodes can also tend to bee extremely dumb, clichéd, not go into much detail, have no overall point and then you get a “well it’s a kids show, what did you expect?”, ha, ha that reason alone completely makes up for a lacking show doesn’t it?

Again, I don’t see what’s so great about the occasional G1 nod, but maybe that parts just me.

Overall though, this series has seemed pretty overrated, I just don’t get what people like so much about it. Am I missing something that could possibly change my opinion of the show for better, is there anything that’s actually good enough to out weigh these negatives?

Nekoman wrote:I hear a lot of people say things like “it’s the best thing since G1!” and “Soooo much better than AEC.” these sort of comments I don’t agree with. This show has been the worst TF series ever made in my opinion at least. There’s too many super villains for one thing and when someone says anything about the lame super villains you can expect a “They’re to make the decepticons more threatening!” how do lame brain super villains make the decpticons more threatening? All I’ve seen these super villains make is a very boring episode.

Then there’s the animation, its horrible and some people still fail to notice this. Example something gets tossed/thrown it just sort of glides across the screen. Then at times it looks jittery and real slow, I’ve yet to see animation that looks half decent in this show.

Episodes can also tend to bee extremely dumb, clichéd, not go into much detail, have no overall point and then you get a “well it’s a kids show, what did you expect?”, ha, ha that reason alone completely makes up for a lacking show doesn’t it?

Again, I don’t see what’s so great about the occasional G1 nod, but maybe that parts just me.

Overall though, this series has seemed pretty overrated, I just don’t get what people like so much about it. Am I missing something that could possibly change my opinion of the show for better, is there anything that’s actually good enough to out weigh these negatives?

The show? Nah, I don't think ur missing anything. I do agree its aimed towards young children with its goofy style animation, very kiddish tone and overall storyline. What the big deal is? I don't know. I like some of the toys, but nothing I gotta have.

These are TF's meant for our kids, not for us. But some people love them for whatever reason. Best thing since G1? I think not. Beast Wars had a far superior storyline, despite the horrible characters.

"That things forged in die cast. Its a lost art." Optimus Primal.

It follows the rules set by Generation 1. Bumblebee is still the smallest of them. Optimus is still a semi truck. Even Soundwave, who's had less that G1 treatment over the series, gets to be his old self again.
Look at the show. It's G1 for kids. And by kids I mean Ben 10 loving kids. Not decent kids.

Thyunda wrote:It follows the rules set by Generation 1. Bumblebee is still the smallest of them. Optimus is still a semi truck. Even Soundwave, who's had less that G1 treatment over the series, gets to be his old self again.
Look at the show. It's G1 for kids. And by kids I mean Ben 10 loving kids. Not decent kids.

LMAO!! Ben Ten loving, not decent.


Thats classic.

I like the fact that the episodes are only loosely held together by an ongoing storyline. That way if I miss one, it means I don't miss too much of the overall story. That was one problem I had with the AEC trilogy. Also, the ongoing story isn't a stupid one in my opinion. I didn't like the whole collecting minicons/keys thing at all.

Beast Wars was good but I didn't like the fact it was animal based alt modes. Cars, planes and tanks are much cooler.

Nekoman wrote:There’s too many super villains for one thing and when someone says anything about the lame super villains you can expect a "They’re to make the decepticons more threatening!" how do lame brain super villains make the decpticons more threatening?

1. Transformers is an action show. Therefore, the fans are going to want some type of fightin' stuff going on in most if not all of the episodes.

2. In most fights, somebody loses.

3. If the good guys lose too often, after a while you end up with either a comedic show of bumbling non-heroes, or a dark show where the bad guys rule the day. I doubt Hasbro wants to go for either in a kids' show that's supposed to promote toy sales.

4. If the bad guys lose too often, they start looking ineffectual and incompetent. Case in point: the original series Decepticons. Half the time the Autobots were kicking their afts and the other half of the time they were blowing themselves up. They were fun as heck to watch, but it was impossible to take them seriously as bad guys, IMHO, except for a few rare eps.

So, the human villains are a matter of literary give-and-take. The Autobots can fight them and win regularly to look heroic and give the episodes regular action sequences. And since the Decepticons don't need to show up as often, they can get away with losing after beating the Autobots to an inch of their lives without the defeats being so numerous they start looking stupid. Plus, it makes it so that it's a big deal when they *do* show up, rather than being something you get inured to/take for granted.

Finally, not having all the Decepticons around means no easy fix for Megatron. Which means he gets to be slimy, resourceful, charismatically manipulative, sadistic, and basically the most hypnotically awesome incarnation of Megatron I've seen as of yet.

Granted, I do wish Angry Archer wasn't so lame, but I liked Meltdown, Nanosec, and Colossus Rhodes. (Haven't gotten to see "Sound And Fury" yet, so I can't weigh in there.)

To summarize: The fans aren't going to want to have lots of episodes without action, the Decepticons being ineffectual is getting really old, and Hasbro isn't going to want the good guys they're trying to sell toys for getting their afts kicked in every battle. Having human villains is the closest the writers can get to having their cake and eating it too without breaking literary physics.

Well if they need the Autobots to fight something that’s not an Decepticon every episode, why not terrorist organizations? They’d be much more realistic and I’ve always wanted to see prime and the autobots taking on some evil terrorist.

Thyunda wrote:Optimus is still a semi truck.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he was a fire truck in animated?

Nekoman wrote:Well if they need the Autobots to fight something that’s not an Decepticon every episode, why not terrorist organizations? They’d be much more realistic and I’ve always wanted to see prime and the autobots taking on some evil terrorist.

You'd have to ask the writers why they went for a "superhero" angle for the show. I agree I would have liked a more realistic approach to the human opposition. (But then, maybe that would skirt too close to being too dark for a kids show?)

I'm just saying that in the general sense having mostly human villains is a good approach when trying to balance making both the Autobots and the Decepticons look good.

I'd say "not a hell of a whole lot." I'm going on "the show is Lame" side.

I have officially written this crap fest off as a really bad idea. The episode of 2/23 had the big, poorly drawn, green Autobot fighting an Elmyra wanna be on a flying unicorn? She was throwing teddy bears at him.

I stopped the tape and erased the program.

Never again.

Jeysie wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Well if they need the Autobots to fight something that’s not an Decepticon every episode, why not terrorist organizations? They’d be much more realistic and I’ve always wanted to see prime and the autobots taking on some evil terrorist.

You'd have to ask the writers why they went for a "superhero" angle for the show. I agree I would have liked a more realistic approach to the human opposition. (But then, maybe that would skirt too close to being too dark for a kids show?)

I'm just saying that in the general sense having mostly human villains is a good approach when trying to balance making both the Autobots and the Decepticons look good.

I don’t see why, G.I.Joe had a cartoon and they fought terrorist in just about every episode, so as long as they didn’t portray the said terrorist doing anything to violent I’d assume it would be fine.

I’m starting to see what you mean by the humans change how the decepticons appear, but couldn’t they have thought of something better?

i think its a change. its not all good but its not terrible. and dont diss Ben 10. that show is brilliant.It is one of the most unique shows about Ben 10.

And im not a kid either.

and i dont think cartoons are made just for kids. Only stuff like preschool things is specifically made for children.

I think that as stated elsewhere that Sari is the first child in a transformers cartoon to actually act like a child.

Proffessor Princess is comic relief to highlight that they are being watched.
I might never look at a my little pony the same again after that creature but hey.

What really annoys me is the yacking about G1 references.
i like the G1 cartoons but i dont think they are perfect or anything.

its interesting i suppose but its hardly important when compared to the fact we got a new transformers cartoon.

I just hope in this one they make decent female transformers who arent sexist idiots.
That hasnt gone so well so far. Elita 1 was a sniveling flirt and Black Arachnia is a whinging loon.

transformers is in dire need of strong female characters.

Nekoman wrote:I don’t see why, G.I.Joe had a cartoon and they fought terrorist in just about every episode, so as long as they didn’t portray the said terrorist doing anything to violent I’d assume it would be fine.

Yes they did... and in my memory, COBRA in GI Joe was almost as goofy as the G1 Decepticons. Plus I'm not sure how "not too violent" terrorists are any less "lame" than the villains we have now.

Nekoman wrote:I'm starting to see what you mean by the humans change how the decepticons appear, but couldn't they have thought of something better?

Maybe, though so far I'd say that at least 3 out of 5 characters isn't "utterly horrible". Plus, there's not a lot of options for recurring villain types that are kid-friendly.

Anyway. Now that I have some time to formulate things... some of what I like about this series:

1. Interesting characters. I like that the Decepticons so far are dangerous and creepy. Megatron and Starscream in particular are the coolest incarnations of those characters I've personally gotten to see so far. I already gushed about Megatron, and Starscream has managed to retain all the fun parts of his G1 personality (being a backstabbing, scheming scenery-chewer) while losing the goofy parts (being whiny and incompetent). Blackarachnia is interesting as a femme fatale who fits in nowhere and is obsessed with revenge and using the Allspark to restore her old self. (One wonders what she'll do now that neither goal seems viable anymore.) And Lockdown... aren't bounty hunters just inherently cool, especially the creepy ones?

I like that the Autobots aren't perfect or awesome fighters. I like that Ratchet is crotchety and haunted by his past, that Prime is uncertain and messes up sometimes, that Prowl is a philosophical loner who seems to possess both badassness and bad luck, that Bulkhead is a well-meaning clutz, and Bumblebee is an annoying young punk. I like the rivalry between Optimus and Sentinel Prime.

2. Interesting writing. There's a lot of good stuff here... nasty and manipulative bad guys, explorations of the effects that robots might have on human society, characters dealing with choices made in the past that haunt them, villains who have motivations other than "just being evil", good guys who sometimes do not-so-lily-white things, etc. There's a fair bit of depth here for a kiddie show.

3. Awesome voice acting. Corey Burton and Jeff Bennett in particular are doing an excellent job all around.

4. Earth actually mattering, in the sense that the humans have a purpose, are mostly non-annoying, and we see the TFs having to deal with human culture and society.

(Yes I know many fans whine about this. To which I say: the whole premise of TFs is "Robots in Disguise" as recognizable vehicles and devices. Which means Earth needs to be involved somehow. And it's *good writing* to have Earth and humans involved as more than a glorified backdrop, not to mention it opens up a lot of potential idea space.)

The only two things I don't like about Animated are the art style and that godforsaken Allspark key. And the latter is the only thing I'm really worried about.

Animated, while not my favorite continuity is not bad enough for me to stop watching. There are some things about it worth keeping tuned in for. Here are a few off the top of my head.

Starscream is wonderful in Animated and so is his toy. I'll keep watching just to see him again.

Blitzwing is in it. I'm a Blitzwing girl also.

Unfortunatly my list of "minus" points is longer than above. I'm not even going to start on that one, but I mostly ignore those things about it.

estrelliaes wrote:transformers is in dire need of strong female characters.

Thank Primus for the IDW story and Arcee. (Who is NOT crazy, BTW.)

Well it's way better than AEC that's for sure. Maybe not in the toy sence but the show for sure.

Jeysie wrote:Finally, not having all the Decepticons around means no easy fix for Megatron. Which means he gets to be slimy, resourceful, charismatically manipulative, sadistic, and basically the most hypnotically awesome incarnation of Megatron I've seen as of yet.

This is probably been one of the strongest points of the series, and why this incarnation of Megatron has quickly become my second favorite Megatron after the Beast Wars version. Here is a Megatron who doesn't just simply push his weight around to get what he wants - something even I'll admit that BW Megs was prone to do - largely because he can't. This one's in a state that none of his predecessors have ever been in (at least to my knowledge), so what does he do? He turns into the mechanical equivilent of a snakeoil peddler, with Sumdac the perfect sucker. I hope the writers continue to show this Megatron as a cunning, manipulative character even after his body is restored to him.

Jeysie wrote:

Nekoman wrote:I don’t see why, G.I.Joe had a cartoon and they fought terrorist in just about every episode, so as long as they didn’t portray the said terrorist doing anything to violent I’d assume it would be fine.

Yes they did... and in my memory, COBRA in GI Joe was almost as goofy as the G1 Decepticons. Plus I'm not sure how "not too violent" terrorists are any less "lame" than the villains we have now.

Because terrorist are a bit more realistic than an acid man, a bear tossing five year old or any super villain for that matter.

I guess really another one of my problems with the show is the characters, the only ones I actually like are Prowl and ratchet and Megatron seems decent, but I would prefer him to be a bit more of a “on the battlefield ” sort of leader. I found Blackarachnia to be a little silly and Bulkhead is just too dumb, worst of all is prime, its like I’m waiting for him too say “peace dood!” or something like that.

Nekoman wrote:Because terrorist are a bit more realistic than an acid man, a bear tossing five year old or any super villain for that matter.

Yes, which is exactly why a "not too violent" terrorist would be just as bad, IMHO. Terrorists that aren't scary or dangerous enough to be a real threat would be just as unrealistic as a super villain to me (and a lot more "lame").

The unrealisticness of super villains works to their advantage in being able to come up with ways they can be a threat without stepping over the "too much for a kids' show" line.

And personally I'm glad to see Megatron be forced to step away from his typical role on the battlefield for the reasons Thunderscream outlined. I too hope he stays with his current personality instead of becoming yet another "big bad" type.

Thunderscream wrote:This is probably been one of the strongest points of the series, and why this incarnation of Megatron has quickly become my second favorite Megatron after the Beast Wars version. Here is a Megatron who doesn't just simply push his weight around to get what he wants - something even I'll admit that BW Megs was prone to do - largely because he can't. This one's in a state that none of his predecessors have ever been in (at least to my knowledge), so what does he do? He turns into the mechanical equivilent of a snakeoil peddler, with Sumdac the perfect sucker. I hope the writers continue to show this Megatron as a cunning, manipulative character even after his body is restored to him.

I could not have said it better myself!




Yet another Megatron to love!

Nekoman wrote:worst of all is prime, its like I’m waiting for him too say “peace dood!” or something like that.

Actually I half expect him to say "I can't deal with this right now".

And before any Ultra Magnus fanboys jump on me, realise that I too am a UM fanboy and i'm not saying Animated Prime is a modern day G1 Ultra Magnus. G1 Magnus had great leadership abilities, he was a battlefield veteran, he just didn't have much patience. Animated Prime however doesn't have much in the way of leadership abilities, is liable to run at the first site of trouble on the battlefield, and is an all round idiot who has no idea what he's really doing.

But fret not Optimus Prime lovers! We all know you're precious boy can't forever be made an idiot and be in the shadow of Ultra Magnus! Because i'm fairly confident that by the end of the show Prime will step up as a leader and save the day while simultaneously making Magnus look like a complete and utter idiot.

And I will be very pissed off indeed ....

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:I have officially written this crap fest off as a really bad idea. The episode of 2/23 had the big, poorly drawn, green Autobot fighting an Elmyra wanna be on a flying unicorn? She was throwing teddy bears at him.

Actually, I found that part of the episode to be an entertaining commentary concerning sexism and gender roles that are marketed toward children in toys. Professor Princess is a female character who in appearance is gender stereotyped and is meant to portray those overtly concerned parents that discusses how people should think, feel, wear, act, etc. She then attempts to forcefully solve a self imagined "problem" by using violent toys of her own. Her hypocrisy is thus her greatest downfall as the the beam from pegasus' horn (which is another symbol of the character's rhetoric and hypocrisy since that is what she used to force her views on others) is bounced back towards her
and, with no way to respond, is left without a way to fight back.

Or something like that. I had it more thought out a couple days ago.

And those were not teddy bears that she threw. Those were stuffed kittens.

Stuffed exploding kittens.

In any event, is there really a point to this topic? It seems like the only thing that people are complaining about is their opinions anways. I mean, one person feels that the characters are poorly developed while another thinks that the presented character dynamics makes for interesting plot developments. Some people want realism while others just want an entertaining cartoon. Some people like the human element in the show while others thinks it stupid.

These are all OPINIONS from fans. Even if you have reasons to explain your opinion those explanations will only be opinion based anyways. I doubt that any one person here can create some sort of fact that would prove/disprove someone's argument points. Not that I think anyone on here is trying to prove and/or disprove another person's opinions, but if you do then I think you are awfully silly to do so.

That being said, and because I haven't heard myself ramble on enough about things today, one great thing about animated that I like is that the show can make me laugh. Particularly with Bulkhead. What a fun surprise that character turned out to be.

The ninja bot gets in a good one!

Don't you think using the key on that toy is a bad idea? Why? Rampaging dinobots. Bumblebee's turbo upgrade. Black Arachnia draining the life out of every plant and animal in Detroit! Okay, you're right. Damn straight he's right you foolish human child. Did you not just promise Optimus in the last episode that you wouldn't abuse the key anymore? Grrr, why won't Optimus take that key from you already!?!?!

There's several reasons I rate Animated highly.

The first is that it returns to the smaller, more personal setting that G1 started with and Beast Wars continued.
This is a huge part of what made Transformers unique, and got lost a lot during AEC.

Oh, and I love it's lack of pretentious crap.

Beast Wars was a well written series, but it had its head up it's own arse.
I loved the things it took on, but I hated that you could almost see the writers patting themselves on the back smugly for being so clever with every line.

Another reason is the human aspect.
I like the human threats, and I like that they're something a bit different.
Foreign/corrupt military and terrorists are old.
There's only so many times that you can have an organisation intent on achieveing something over the course of a series before it gets overplayed, and that amount of times is one.

Super powered people may be less realistic, but with each having a different origin, angle and plan, it's more varied, and through that entertaining.

I also like that it doesn't let "realism" tie it down.

Too many people mistake lack of imagination for realism.
The end result is very limited and dull.
Animated takes a big leap, but maintains internally consistent logic, so is realsitic within it's fantasy premise and a lot less dull than previous shows.


I don't want to watch the same show over and over again with superficial changes.

I either want one continuity that runs and runs and through that naturally changes and evolves, or I want to see genuine re-imaginings of the core concept.

Animated gives us the latter. It's very familiar, yet for the first time since BW, something genuinely new, different, exciting.
It's not something I've seen before, so I'm as excited as I was when I was a kid.

I like Animated because it's being written and portrayed like an actual story, and not just a glorified toy commercial. Sure it's still early on and new characters are getting "featured" episodes, but rarely are they like "Hey kids, I'm super-awsomely powerful and have tons of gimmicks", which I guess is because the toys don't have many gimmicks. Instead, they are portarying them as characters, and just like Beast Wars, it's that approach that will probably sell a lot of toys. Honestly, how many Rattrap's would have been sold if he wasn't featrued and characterized in the show? This approach also helps give the series a bit of longetivity in my opinion, cause long after the toys are off the shelves the show can still be looked on as a source of entertainment rather than just a toy commercial.

I also am liking that Optimus Prime is becoming more of a character too (and hasn't really had much focus either), and goes back to the Optimus Primal character type where he is a flawed individual who has a commradery with his fellow teamates. The previous Prime's in Rid/AEC were super-powerful and little more than a commander in some cases, and I didn't like them as much.

One final thing I must comment on is the outcry over the villains. You'd think all we've seen up to this point is fleshy's with weird powers, but that is certainly not the case. We've had ten episodes so far, and only two of them have focused on humans(and one with a giant mutated creature), but those episodes also helped build on characterization a bit. Maybe it's just that the little kid in me that still loves over the top villains, but these Super Villains in Animated have only taken up a small percentage of the show, and it's definitely still about the Transformers. Professor Princess is the perfect example, I've seen several posts saying how dumb and horrible she was, but that was two mintues at most in an otherwise very heavy Decepticon themed episode.

First off I hate the animation, I just plain hate it.

I dislike the thing with supervilians and I hate the art style.

But I do like the characters, and the interaction they have, the stories are mostly good.

The thing with the human vilians is, the makers want to let the Decepticons be a real threat, in the old shows they showed up in every eppy and got there asses handed out to them, in every eppy.

Besides, the Bots in this show are pretty much wimps, they are no warriors as they were in the previous shows, they have to "train", if I may say so.

I don't really know why I like it so much, it just appeals to me, with all these G1 nods, the cool characters, the plots and the humor that comes in every now and then.

And I enjoyed it more then I enjoyed AEC, I enjoy it just as much as I enjoy BW/BM and G1.

Lycantendencies wrote:There's several reasons I rate Animated highly.

The first is that it returns to the smaller, more personal setting that G1 started with and Beast Wars continued.
This is a huge part of what made Transformers unique, and got lost a lot during AEC.

Oh, and I love it's lack of pretentious crap.

Beast Wars was a well written series, but it had its head up it's own arse.
I loved the things it took on, but I hated that you could almost see the writers patting themselves on the back smugly for being so clever with every line.

Another reason is the human aspect.
I like the human threats, and I like that they're something a bit different.
Foreign/corrupt military and terrorists are old.
There's only so many times that you can have an organisation intent on achieveing something over the course of a series before it gets overplayed, and that amount of times is one.

Super powered people may be less realistic, but with each having a different origin, angle and plan, it's more varied, and through that entertaining.

I also like that it doesn't let "realism" tie it down.

Too many people mistake lack of imagination for realism.
The end result is very limited and dull.
Animated takes a big leap, but maintains internally consistent logic, so is realsitic within it's fantasy premise and a lot less dull than previous shows.


I don't want to watch the same show over and over again with superficial changes.

I either want one continuity that runs and runs and through that naturally changes and evolves, or I want to see genuine re-imaginings of the core concept.

Animated gives us the latter. It's very familiar, yet for the first time since BW, something genuinely new, different, exciting.
It's not something I've seen before, so I'm as excited as I was when I was a kid.

QTF.

Its a cartoon. Its supposed to be unrealistic. Even G.I. Joe was unrealistic in some things. Yes the Super powerful organization bent on world domination is good. But who in there right mind walks around in a Cobra suit, or a blue helmet.

Its meant to draw you away from the reality of things. Its supposed to be fun.

As for he Animation so its not the best thing ever, but I hardly think G1 had solid animation either. It was full of mistakes and flaws.
But what is really so horrible about the animation, is it because they aren't mechanically accurate? Like Prowl or Prime like to spin around when they transform? Their Transformations, instead of having the same stock 2 minute Transformation sequences over and over again for the robots, they have varying transformations. Sometimes they are more detailed other times they just blur into their robot modes.

It keeps it from getting stale.

People complain Prime is not a (to quote a 90's film) "Great Military Leaduurr!!" He's a repair bot, that flunked out of the academy. The writing has been consistent in that regard. He doesn't know what to do. As has been said to shove the entire decepticon cast in right now would be certain doom for the autobots. They stand no chance of fighting them off.


Overall its a cartoon aimed for kids in the 5 to 10 age range. You want something realistic and gritty, watch the 5 o'clock news.

I don't know what has and hasn't been said but here goes.

I grew up with Beast Wars, loved it, totally. Beast Machines, nah. G1, I respect it as the father of what I love. Animated has its ups and down. I'm more for quality of story really. The animation is off putting, and it is jerky, which stops me really enjoying it. Half the fun of Beast Wars is the smooth animation.

The human badguys? Well, its not a view I personally take, but try to think of it like this: If you want realism, then you've got it. The Transformers are on earth, and Earth is populated by humans. Earth is not populated by Decepticons, though some are present. The odds of battling a human to battling a decepticon aren't exactly equal.

Also, think about the a few things: G1 gets bashed for having not THAT much character development. Beast Wars is praised highly for this. And kids love it, I think. Animated achieves development of Decepticons (since the Autobots are in every episode) by having a single episode all about them. Sounds good to me. This also achieves something else.

So, you know Megatron's gonna get a new body, isn't he. Well you then know that all the Decepticons are gonna flock for him and be one big troop on Earth. Holy ****! A whole heap of Decepticons and all they're gonna do nothing but kick ass cos they don't need to waste time developing them! A whole lot of action there. And of course we've all seen them be menacing in their spotlight episodes, so then we're like "holy crud, all of them together is a whole lot of menacing!". I think kid's love it. And I don't see any reason that an adult might not. You just have to lay back and enjoy it.

Whats the phrase? 'Now and then it'd good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and just be happy'. Just be a little carefree, So the animation sucks, so what? And if you don't like the human characters, skip those episodes.