The Energon Pub

Justicity wrote:

Tramp wrote:Well, he is a minion, but not a symbiote.

He was a symbiote. Since his initial character detail release it's been said the two have a symbiotic relationship, meaning he's a symbiote...

Well, I don't know about any initial detail release, I'm going by the final character bio where he is just a minion.

nugget wrote:

Justicity wrote:

nugget wrote:When you look at his closeups in the movie you can see compressor blades moving. Thus I would assume he is part of Blackouts engine... The bigger question is whether they need human technology for locomotion.

Consider this, would blackout risk the ability to fly by using his rotor blade as a weapon if he was dependant on it for mobility?

More questions than answers as usual..

I can understand Blackout not neading to power his rotors for flight*, however you just suggested he doesn't even NEED them to stay in the air. How the HECK does that work? What, he can float?

*instead using his own spark energy (maybe?) to rotate his propellers.

I didn't suggest $hit, I asked a question numbnuts.

In most discussions, suggest is mearly another way of saying "they've raised that idea"...

I wasn't saying you believed it to be true, or putting words into your mouth in anyway. You threw into the discussion the idea that Blackout isn't dependant on his rotors for flight, which would imply that he floats...
"you just suggested he doesn't even NEED them to stay in the air." is just another way of saying that last paragraph & providing a counter argument in one go.

((By the way, I absolutely loved your retort. Very well thought up. It really put me in my place... [/sarcasm]))

ok if he isnt part of black out then why does he have helicopter warnings all over him ex. "caution fuel explosive", "rescue", keep away", "no step".....

Barricade wrote:ok if he isnt part of black out then why does he have helicopter warnings all over him ex. "caution fuel explosive", "rescue", keep away", "no step".....

Thise markings arent exclusive to helocopters. The cargo it carries, and other military vehicles share those same markings.

Tramp wrote:

Barricade wrote:ok if he isnt part of black out then why does he have helicopter warnings all over him ex. "caution fuel explosive", "rescue", keep away", "no step".....

Thise markings arent exclusive to helocopters. The cargo it carries, and other military vehicles share those same markings.

And also because they just didn't have enough "to punish & enslave" stickers...

Justicity wrote:

nugget wrote:

Justicity wrote:

nugget wrote:When you look at his closeups in the movie you can see compressor blades moving. Thus I would assume he is part of Blackouts engine... The bigger question is whether they need human technology for locomotion.

Consider this, would blackout risk the ability to fly by using his rotor blade as a weapon if he was dependant on it for mobility?

More questions than answers as usual..

I can understand Blackout not neading to power his rotors for flight*, however you just suggested he doesn't even NEED them to stay in the air. How the HECK does that work? What, he can float?

*instead using his own spark energy (maybe?) to rotate his propellers.

I didn't suggest $hit, I asked a question numbnuts.

In most discussions, suggest is mearly another way of saying "they've raised that idea"...

I wasn't saying you believed it to be true, or putting words into your mouth in anyway. You threw into the discussion the idea that Blackout isn't dependant on his rotors for flight, which would imply that he floats...
"you just suggested he doesn't even NEED them to stay in the air." is just another way of saying that last paragraph & providing a counter argument in one go.

((By the way, I absolutely loved your retort. Very well thought up. It really put me in my place... [/sarcasm]))

My question is legitimate. Why would a race of advanced robots require human technology for mobility? Seriously, why would they? I have no idea, i'm looking for some.

((BTW nice use of the word RETORT The 18th century called, they want their vocabulary back [insert faux HTML tag here and dont forget to close it with this : /]

When this movie comes out on DVD, I'm going to go blind from freeze framing every transformation step-by-step.

Bye bye retinas, it was fun while it lasted...

The real question is: Why didn't Blackout go back for Skorponok? He was probably still in the Middle East, right? Soundwave was much more attentive to his minions.

Moonbase2 wrote:The real question is: Why didn't Blackout go back for Skorponok? He was probably still in the Middle East, right? Soundwave was much more attentive to his minions.

Unfortunatly the question is not "why didn't he?", but "did he?" go back for Skorpinok

Simple. With his injuries, Skorponok was useless in battle.

nugget wrote:My question is legitimate. Why would a race of advanced robots require human technology for mobility? Seriously, why would they? I have no idea, i'm looking for some.

((BTW nice use of the word RETORT The 18th century called, they want their vocabulary back [insert faux HTML tag here and dont forget to close it with this : /]

Because basic laws of physics apply to everything, not just humans. Look, I'll put it in a way you may understand:

Big huge ass helicopter.
Helicoptor need to fly.
Gravity makes apple fall on sciency-guys head.
Gravity make helicopter do the same, minus the head.
Helicopter need to push air down to keep itself in the air.
Big cybertronian rocket jets would kinda blow the whole disguise thing...
Therefore Helicopter will need to make use of earth tech SO IT DOESNT STAND OUT LIKE A HUGE ALIEN MACHINE!
Result: Blackout uses rotors to keep from falling onto Newtons head.

((Oh, very mature, insult the words I chose to use. Well done. Good shot. Oh, the home for retired assholes called, they say that you're application has been registered & your place is safe for another two years if you wish to take it. What the hell man?!? Learn how to make creative insults at least! Besides, I'm English & proud, I do like to use more creative & intelligent words. It stops me from talking like an ass, like you are currently displaying.))

Justicity wrote:

nugget wrote:My question is legitimate. Why would a race of advanced robots require human technology for mobility? Seriously, why would they? I have no idea, i'm looking for some.

((BTW nice use of the word RETORT The 18th century called, they want their vocabulary back [insert faux HTML tag here and dont forget to close it with this : /]

Because basic laws of physics apply to everything, not just humans. Look, I'll put it in a way you may understand:

Big huge ass helicopter.
Helicoptor need to fly.
Gravity makes apple fall on sciency-guys head.
Gravity make helicopter do the same, minus the head.
Helicopter need to push air down to keep itself in the air.
Big cybertronian rocket jets would kinda blow the whole disguise thing...
Therefore Helicopter will need to make use of earth tech SO IT DOESNT STAND OUT LIKE A HUGE ALIEN MACHINE!
Result: Blackout uses rotors to keep from falling onto Newtons head.

((Oh, very mature, insult the words I chose to use. Well done. Good shot. Oh, the home for retired assholes called, they say that you're application has been registered & your place is safe for another two years if you wish to take it. What the hell man?!? Learn how to make creative insults at least! Besides, I'm English & proud, I do like to use more creative & intelligent words. It stops me from talking like an ass, like you are currently displaying.))

well put

autobot comander wrote:

Justicity wrote:

nugget wrote:My question is legitimate. Why would a race of advanced robots require human technology for mobility? Seriously, why would they? I have no idea, i'm looking for some.

((BTW nice use of the word RETORT The 18th century called, they want their vocabulary back [insert faux HTML tag here and dont forget to close it with this : /]

Because basic laws of physics apply to everything, not just humans. Look, I'll put it in a way you may understand:

Big huge ass helicopter.
Helicoptor need to fly.
Gravity makes apple fall on sciency-guys head.
Gravity make helicopter do the same, minus the head.
Helicopter need to push air down to keep itself in the air.
Big cybertronian rocket jets would kinda blow the whole disguise thing...
Therefore Helicopter will need to make use of earth tech SO IT DOESNT STAND OUT LIKE A HUGE ALIEN MACHINE!
Result: Blackout uses rotors to keep from falling onto Newtons head.

((Oh, very mature, insult the words I chose to use. Well done. Good shot. Oh, the home for retired assholes called, they say that you're application has been registered & your place is safe for another two years if you wish to take it. What the hell man?!? Learn how to make creative insults at least! Besides, I'm English & proud, I do like to use more creative & intelligent words. It stops me from talking like an ass, like you are currently displaying.))

well put

Thank you.

For some reason my... discussion opponent seems to be unaware of the fact that he's lost this discussion. Blackout cannot float, & he needs his rotors, whatever they may be powered by, to keep in the air. My win. He is starting to sound like an ass & his replies are getting worse & worse. My win again?
I now have a choice. Stop now & go to bed, delaying or even removing any chance of Nugget sound even more stupid. Or stay up & keep this going until he quite being an ass. Hrrm, I wonder.

"If had to say anything, I'd say it's his knee"

Sorry, cheesy quote.

I'm going with the whole part of the cargo hold theory.

Wait... What?

What part of 'robots in disguise' is not understood?

Justicity and nugget, lets please keep this civil. You both can have different viewpoints, the discussion forums are not about winning and loosing. And lets tone the colorful retorts and personal attacks down please.

Justicity wrote: Because basic laws of physics apply to everything, not just humans.

I don't think the basic laws of physics apply well to TF's. Mass shifting, turning your arms into a cannon, etc.

Thank god the movie didn't stay true to G1, there is no way in hell they obey Newton's laws (see soundwave AKA floating tapedeck).

On a side note helicopters don't fly by pushing air down, they create lift just like an airplanes wing, Bernoulli's Principle.

Now on to Scorponock.. Take a look at this image, you can see the compressor blades.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v59/manferlan/?action=view¤t=ZOOMPIC_Trans_Scorponok_ColorTexRef.jpg

Now visit Ben Proctors site here and view the quicktime file.
You can clearly see the compressor blades spinning.

http://www.benprocter.com/SITEv2/HTML/PROJPAGE_Trans_08.html#

The Pave Low has two and sometimes three turboshaft engines depending on the model.

It's possible that Blackout flew on one or two engines. Or who knows maybe we uncovered another plot hole with our little Tit for Tat.

Nugget wrote:

Justicity wrote: Because basic laws of physics apply to everything, not just humans.

I don't think the basic laws of physics apply well to TF's. Mass shifting, turning your arms into a cannon, etc.

Thank god the movie didn't stay true to G1, there is no way in hell they obey Newton's laws (see soundwave AKA floating tapedeck).

On a side note helicopters don't fly by pushing air down, they create lift just like an airplanes wing, Bernoulli's Principle.

Now on to Scorponock.. Take a look at this image, you can see the compressor blades.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v59/manferlan/?action=view¤t=ZOOMPIC_Trans_Scorponok_ColorTexRef.jpg

Now visit Ben Proctors site here and view the quicktime file.
You can clearly see the compressor blades spinning.

http://www.benprocter.com/SITEv2/HTML/PROJPAGE_Trans_08.html#

The Pave Low has two and sometimes three turboshaft engines depending on the model.

It's possible that Blackout flew on one or two engines. Or who knows maybe we uncovered another plot hole with our little Tit for Tat.

Nugget before we go any further with this you do realize that there is absolutly no reason why Skorponok has to be a part of Blackout?

Now that thats out of the way Skorponok was never intended to become a part of Blackout, but was intended to ride inside him; hence the Pav Low.

Jar Axel is correct. That turbine inside Skorponok is his own engine, it is not part of Blackout's power systems.

Skorponok is only a passenger inside of Blackout's cargo hold. He is not a component of Blackout.

Prove it

I still say he's part of the engine/transmission assembly of Blackout. hence the 'No Step' labels etc. which are generally used on delicate areas of aircraft that aren't meant to be y'know, stepped on, and the turbine blades.

There's no evidence that Blackout flies anywhere after disengaging Skorponok - we don't see him fly while Skorpy is fighting Lennox and the troops, and he could very easily have picked the little dude back up before we see him fly next.

This might explain why we never hear from Skorponok again, as he's been reattached to Blackout and is recuperating from having his ass handed to him by the AC130...

Thats my opinion anyways. I'll get my fireproof suit on as opinions don't tend to go down well around here lately...

Prowl_83 wrote:Thats my opinion anyways. I'll get my fireproof suit on as opinions don't tend to go down well around here lately...

Apologies for all that. It's not that opinions don't go down well, its that opinions don't go down well when people make absurd claims like "Blackout can float". And again, sorry for that, It's not really what he said, but what he said did suggest this.

Anyway, on topic now.

Prowl_83 wrote:Prove it

I still say he's part of the engine/transmission assembly of Blackout. hence the 'No Step' labels etc. which are generally used on delicate areas of aircraft that aren't meant to be y'know, stepped on, and the turbine blades.

There's no evidence that Blackout flies anywhere after disengaging Skorponok - we don't see him fly while Skorpy is fighting Lennox and the troops, and he could very easily have picked the little dude back up before we see him fly next.

Directly quoting said claim, but using it in a sensible manner:

Consider this, would blackout risk the ability to fly by using Scorpinok as a weapon if he was dependant on it for mobility?

If Scorpie was pat of his engine assembly, why would Blackout send him off to attack the troops? He'd be risking his engine? Scorpie got badly injured (or killed) in that fight. They could have killed him if the Sabot rounds had hit his main body rather than his tail. Surely Blackout didn't underestimate the humans that much? Besides, common sense of combat, it is a bad idea to send one lone member of the team in to fight a battle when they carry precious cargo (in this case, Blackouts engine). So unless Blackout was watching from a far to insure his engines saftey, in which case he would have stepped in.

I don't know, they generally did underestimate the sh*t out of the humans throughout the movie.

Good point though, it would be a risky strategy sending a major component of himself into battle; Doesn't mean he wouldn't though. If he was confident it'd get the job done I'd think he would...

and lets not forget aside from all this, common sense and logic aren't the strongest points of this movie...



by the way the 'Fireproof suit' thing wasn't aimed at you in particular, things just seem particularly.. toasty... in this forum recently!

Prowl_83 wrote:I don't know, they generally did underestimate the sh*t out of the humans throughout the movie.

Good point though, it would be a risky strategy sending a major component of himself into battle; Doesn't mean he wouldn't though. If he was confident it'd get the job done I'd think he would...

and lets not forget aside from all this, common sense and logic aren't the strongest points of this movie...



by the way the 'Fireproof suit' thing wasn't aimed at you in particular, things just seem particularly.. toasty... in this forum recently!

Yea, I'd noticed that, & sadly the raging fire had burnt me too, meaning Nuggets strange logic appeared to me as an opening for a "WTH" moment...

That is true, big transforming robots & we're discussing common sense XD

Yes they did underestimate the humans, hence getting most of their number nice & toasty under the flames of a good Sabot round. But I don't think, even in those circumstances, Blackout would send such a vital part of him into battle. If he was going to & Scorpie was vital to him movement, I'm sure Blackout would have rested, told Scorpie to follow but remain hidden, & eventually caught up to Lennox & blasted the hell out of them again while Scorpinok made sure the job was done properly.

since he doesnt transform in the movie, mabye he turns into a fuel cell in the back that drops out and transforms