The Energon Pub

by **Dagon** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:05 pm

What I never understand is why people who don't believe in things religious are more or less forced into defending their positions while people who do have religious leanings are usually given the pass of saying that it's a matter of belief***. Like becuase I believe in something that justifies my belief but if I say I don't believe in something then I have to justify that stance.

I'm not religious and I don't believe in a god. Why isn't that enough? People say "if you can't explain why you don't believe it then you really do believe it, you just won't admit it." No, if I say I don't believe something it means I don't. I also hate religion and the religious mindset in my personal experience is maddening. The active component of my statement is the 'my personal experience' part, which means no one can tell me that I'm wrong, becuause it's my f'n experience. I've had religious people tell me that becuase I claim non-belief that I'm just hiding my belief from myself. No, I'm not. When religious people say things like "oh, not all of us *insert denomination here* are like that," that's fine, but if that's the type of believer my experience has been with, then why do I care if not everyone like them isn't like that??? If a dog gets beaten repeatedly by a man with a beard, the dog might grow distrustful of all bearded men, no matter how many may say "Oh, not all bearded men are going to beat you." Why can't people just accept the notion that I'm not interested in believing things you believe just because you think they are good things to believe?

***Edit: I don't mean to say that religious people aren't called to justify their beliefs, mind you, what I mean is that a lot of times believers are able to fall back on that good old "it's true because God says it's true" arguement.

by **medabotsoundwave** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:18 pm

The Chaos Bringer wrote:If you believe in God, why do you? Why do you see reason to believe that we are significant in the eyes of some strange cosmic creator? Look at the size of the universe. Look at how long it took for us to enter it in the form of modern man. Look at time. Cosmically, how long are we in the universe? Not a very significant amount of time. Look at Earth's timeline. We haven't been around for very long. Dinosaurs were around way longer than us. Why weren't they "God's chosen people?" Why aren't any other modern creatures considered "God's chosen people." If we are supposedly created in God's image, why are there multiple races, and thus the conflicts that inevitably result from such diversity?
Can someone explain this belief in "God" to me?

well maybe you need to believe in him. thats considered a sin. :-x

by **Tammuz** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:07 pm

aerialbot wrote:
The Chaos Bringer wrote:If you believe in God, why do you? Why do you see reason to believe that we are significant in the eyes of some strange cosmic creator? Look at the size of the universe. Look at how long it took for us to enter it in the form of modern man. Look at time. Cosmically, how long are we in the universe? Not a very significant amount of time. Look at Earth's timeline. We haven't been around for very long. Dinosaurs were around way longer than us. Why weren't they "God's chosen people?" Why aren't any other modern creatures considered "God's chosen people." If we are supposedly created in God's image, why are there multiple races, and thus the conflicts that inevitably result from such diversity?
Can someone explain this belief in "God" to me?
well maybe you need to believe in him. thats considered a sin.

why? what's so bad about not believing in your god?

by **Dark Starscream** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:45 am

HoosierDaddy wrote:Because things happen that cannot be explained. Answered prayers that I know are no coincidence. It's on a personal level. And basically because simple common sense would tell a person that God exists. Scientific athiests want us to believe that we were an accident. But let's just look at the incredible odds of this world and our existence being an accident. Let say the Big Bang is correct. I'm no math wiz but the odds of it happening are astronomical. Now, after the astronomical odds of the big bang you have astronomical odds of stars forming. Then astronomical odds of planets forming. Then astronomical odds of planets with building blocks of life. Then the astronomical odds of a single celled organism finding a way to become "alive". Then the astronomical odds of that single celled organism having a mutation that would allow it to become something a little more. Then the astronomical odds that something a little more has another mutation to become something even more (go throught this step millions, possibly billions of times) until you get to the astronomical odds that we have the diversity of plants and animals and humans that inhabat the Earth. The astronomical odds that Jupiter is in a perfect position to capture most large outter space bodies that could obliterate the Earth by now. The astronomical odds that this planet just happens to have air and water and all the things needed to support and sustain life. Evolution istself is just a series of astronomical odds. For instance, a species has a mutation that "just so happens" to be beneficial and passes that on. This "mistake" happens millions of times so that said species ultimately becomes a differant species. What are the odds that a mutation will happen? Now what are the odds that a mutation that is beneficial will happen. It's unfathomable to even try to do the math of just how astronomically impossible all this we have is purely an accident when the odds are so stacked against it. I think the bigger question is HOW can one not believe in God, at least in some form? The fact that science is even possible proves God. God created things with a pattern. The fact that we can use science to prove things just shows that Gods design is at hand.

The odds are actually very good that at least ONE "big bang" created a universe capable of sustaining life. Cosmologists believe there are billions and billions of other universes created in a similar method to the big bang. Many of those universes died instantly because the conditions (laws) were not right. Just as many worlds do not support life, out of the billions of worlds out there, one would support life like ours. Out of the near-infinite universes out there, the odds are astronomical that at least one (if not billions) of universes could support life like ours.