The Energon Pub

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Why even call him Wheeljack when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?

Why call Armada's Wheeljack that when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?
Why call Prime's Wheeljack that when he doesn't at all act like any previous incarnation?

At least Movie Wheeljack is an inventor like his G1 counterpart.

I've never been interested in Armada so I can't comment on that, but for Transformers prime, Wheeljack isn't much of a scientist as much as he is an old war veteran... As much as there might have been a lack in wheeljack's inventive personality, there was a feeling of history with him, and a war weathered confidence that atleast allowed you to believe he has seen it all (from when G1 and the comics potray him to be part of the war effort). Plus Wheeljack was never afraid to do battle... this Einstein bot looks to feeble to even transform... like movie Jetfire.

5150 Cruiser wrote:What is more important? Characters having recognizable looks, or personality/characterization?

Good question...
I think i'd choose personality/character more than looks... But I don't see why we should have to pick... I like things from the same sci fi unverse to have an ongoing similarity between them, even if visual is changed more one time, and character the next... I also believe theres an extent you can go before it just isn't the same Character anymore... The trick here is to stay within that. And I believe true fans of the franchise who work on Transformers should take it upon themselves to creatively do it justice, rather than taking the easy route and creating things without an established framework of design. There seems to also be evolutions that work if they're in the right direction. Arcee in G1 was much more feminine a robot, more soft and caring than any of the others... then the comics made her troubled and violent with a vendetta... Then TF Prime took that character and toned it back a little... Arcee now cares a lot for Jack, but also has an ass kicking courageous fighting spirit. Thats a win imo.

MINDVVIPE wrote: What is more important? Characters having recognizable looks, or personality/characterization?

Good question...
I think i'd choose personality/character more than looks... But I don't see why we should have to pick... I like things from the same sci fi unverse to have an ongoing similarity between them, even if visual is changed more one time, and character the next... I also believe theres an extent you can go before it just isn't the same Character anymore...[/quote]

I can agree with that. Personally i'm up for changing the looks as long as they fit that character and the universe their in. But i think you line of thinking pretty reasonsable at the same time. FOr the most part you should be able to keep the looks reconisable and at the same time keep the character traits.

I'm curious as to why his looks were changed as drasticly as they were. And no, i don't by the aurgument of "Bay just doesn't care and he's doing it purposely to piss off the fans". Cause Hasbro has say in this as well.
At this point, the only thing i can think of is that they wanted him to be more relateable to the general public? I know that sounds cheezy but i do feel there's a reason.

/\ /\ Yeap, you got it. They're investing a ton of cash, so they gota make it as accessible as they can to...uhm.. kids who are really into rap, all the way to business men who want to take their little kids to a movie they can also get some kick out of. I understand why things are they way they are, but personally, (as i've said before) i'd settle for a lower budget version thats more focused on pleasing those who are already Transformers fans rather than a movie thats trying to gain as many new fans (or really, to get sales for tix)

MINDVVIPE wrote: I understand why things are they way they are, but personally, (as i've said before) i'd settle for a lower budget version thats more focused on pleasing those who are already Transformers fans rather than a movie thats trying to gain as many new fans (or really, to get sales for tix)

I can understand being a long term fan wanting a smaller movie that was more "fan based" so to speak.
Lets take Mortal Kombat for example...
Cheezy dialoge, horrible acting, lack luster plot and story....
And i loved every minute of it! Still one of my favorite movies to this day!
While the movie had worse acting than Micheal Jordan in Space Jam, no one could deny that they stayed darn near 100% true to the characters they were based on. The movie was made for the fans first, and everyone else second.

Still, i wouldn't mind seeing someone picking up were this left off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_gMRjL_6l8

But the problem with TF at its lowest point, is still 10 times bigger than Mortal Kombat is at its highest point. A movie based on TF has alot more to loose than one based on a video game. It needs to apeal to the general fan base as there's alot more to loose with merchandising and such.

5150 Cruiser wrote: I can understand being a long term fan wanting a smaller movie that was more "fan based" so to speak.
Lets take Mortal Kombat for example...
Cheezy dialoge, horrible acting, lack luster plot and story....
And i loved every minute of it! Still one of my favorite movies to this day!
While the movie had worse acting than Micheal Jordan in Space Jam, no one could deny that they stayed darn near 100% true to the characters they were based on. The movie was made for the fans first, and everyone else second.

Still, i wouldn't mind seeing someone picking up were this left off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_gMRjL_6l8

But the problem with TF at its lowest point, is still 10 times bigger than Mortal Kombat is at its highest point. A movie based on TF has alot more to loose than one based on a video game. It needs to apeal to the general fan base as there's alot more to loose with merchandising and such.

Haha, thats funny coz I was thinking of mortal kombat while typing a few of my posts. Agreed completely...
And I really dig that MK rebirth vid, saw it a while ago, in fact, they now have a sorta series going on, you can catch a few other parts online. Decent visual effects, and not bad other stuff so far.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Haha, thats funny coz I was thinking of mortal kombat while typing a few of my posts. Agreed completely...
And I really dig that MK rebirth vid, saw it a while ago, in fact, they now have a sorta series going on, you can catch a few other parts online. Decent visual effects, and not bad other stuff so far.

Hey, thanks for heads up on the series. I had no clue they did anything past MK-Rebirth. I'll now be spending the next 30 minutes filling myself in!

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Why even call him Wheeljack when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?

Why call Armada's Wheeljack that when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?
Why call Prime's Wheeljack that when he doesn't at all act like any previous incarnation?

At least Movie Wheeljack is an inventor like his G1 counterpart.

True the Armada Wheeljack was a little odd, but interesting in character and basically a kinda Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold. The whole series became a G1 homage any way toward the end.
Prime Wheeljack at least PHYSICALLY harks back to something familiar. That thing in DOTM..thats just crap, a p**s poor design. Call it something else, and kill it asap. Someone should have been shot for calling that other thing Jetfire in ROTF.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Why even call him Wheeljack when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?

Why call Armada's Wheeljack that when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?
Why call Prime's Wheeljack that when he doesn't at all act like any previous incarnation?

At least Movie Wheeljack is an inventor like his G1 counterpart.

Prime Wheeljack at least PHYSICALLY harks back to something familiar. That thing in DOTM..thats just crap, a p**s poor design. Call it something else, and kill it asap. Someone should have been shot for calling that other thing Jetfire in ROTF.

Wait... So it's OK to have a character that's personality isn't even SLIGHTLY similar to G1 Wheeljack, yet was given his name simply to help sell the Generations toy (fact) but it's "OMG soooooo WRONG" to give the name to a character with the same personality but looks different?

*facepalm*

Starscream GaGa wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Why even call him Wheeljack when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?

Why call Armada's Wheeljack that when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?
Why call Prime's Wheeljack that when he doesn't at all act like any previous incarnation?

At least Movie Wheeljack is an inventor like his G1 counterpart.

Prime Wheeljack at least PHYSICALLY harks back to something familiar. That thing in DOTM..thats just crap, a p**s poor design. Call it something else, and kill it asap. Someone should have been shot for calling that other thing Jetfire in ROTF.

Wait... So it's OK to have a character that's personality isn't even SLIGHTLY similar to G1 Wheeljack, yet was given his name simply to help sell the Generations toy (fact) but it's "OMG soooooo WRONG" to give the name to a character with the same personality but looks different?

*facepalm*

Well, I guess what saves it is the fact that Wheeljack's personality in Prime wasn't lame in any way... unlike the movie Wheeljacks appearance... Plus, I don't see the big deal about Wheeljack in Prime... it was close enough to Wheeljack... what, does he need to always be inventing and going off about science? He's still an autobot soldier, and he needed to escape from the Decepticons.... he had INVENTED himself some blades to fight.... TF Prime's Wheeljack could easily pass for an evolved version of G1 or comics Wheeljack. Look at Perceptor from the comics... if people didn't read up on how he got injured and decided to become tougher for it, the fact that he runs with the toughest to actually shoot to kill might be a huge change from his more scientist-like demeanor, sitting around in labs working.

If it helps you sleep at night, imagine the movie characters like everyone did Beast Wars Megatron... as "Megatron the 2nd." Sharing namesake, but not the same character.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Why even call him Wheeljack when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?

Why call Armada's Wheeljack that when he bears zero resemblance to any previous incarnation?
Why call Prime's Wheeljack that when he doesn't at all act like any previous incarnation?

At least Movie Wheeljack is an inventor like his G1 counterpart.

Prime Wheeljack at least PHYSICALLY harks back to something familiar. That thing in DOTM..thats just crap, a p**s poor design. Call it something else, and kill it asap. Someone should have been shot for calling that other thing Jetfire in ROTF.

Wait... So it's OK to have a character that's personality isn't even SLIGHTLY similar to G1 Wheeljack, yet was given his name simply to help sell the Generations toy (fact) but it's "OMG soooooo WRONG" to give the name to a character with the same personality but looks different?

*facepalm*

The problem is not that it looks different although a nod to his G1 form would have been nice..the problem is that it looks AWFUL. I assure you that thing won't remind you of Wheeljack when you're sat in that cinema, same way ROTF Jetfire didn't remind me of Jetfire. Movie Jetfire was one of the better characters in that mess, but he should have had an original name is all.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:I assure you that thing won't remind you of Wheeljack when you're sat in that cinema...

I assure you he will, especially if his hair glows when he talks and spends most his time inventing stuff. And if Ironhide or somebody makes a comment about his inventions blowing up, I can assure you I'll be that obnoxious guy laughing FAR too hard in the theater.

5150 Cruiser wrote:What is more important? Characters having recognizable looks, or personality/characterization?

For me, homage personality is more important than homage looks.

Besides the look and personality.... don't forget about voice... Also quite important.

I'm reminded how George Lucas retconned all the (umpteen thousand) Stormtroopers and Boba Fett to have australian accents. Cripes that kills my suspension of disbelief every time I watch it.

Alien robots with EXAGGERATED ghetto, hick, australian, british accents make it tough to take a movie seriously... or suspend your disbelief. (Less so when it's an animated cartoon, of course.)

gothsaurus wrote:Besides the look and personality.... don't forget about voice... Also quite important.

I'm reminded how George Lucas retconned all the (umpteen thousand) Stormtroopers and Boba Fett to have australian accents. Cripes that kills my suspension of disbelief every time I watch it.

Alien robots with EXAGGERATED ghetto, hick, australian, british accents make it tough to take a movie seriously... or suspend your disbelief. (Less so when it's an animated cartoon, of course.)

To be fair, the Stormtroopers' voices were left unaltered...Temuera Morrison only redubbed Fett; the only beef I have with that is he didn't deliver it in the same 'cold' tone (which was perfect for the character) that Jason Wingreen had...Wha...? Oh yeah; Transformers...

Yes; Star Wars fan here, too!

Swiftknife24 wrote:To be fair, the Stormtroopers' voices were left unaltered..

Good call. I just meant respecting continuity, they *should* have the same voices. But you're right, they mercifully only edited in Fett.

Everyone sounding Australian.... It would be just like those English dubs of the Headmasters DVDs. Rahahahaha.

Oh yeah, back to Transformers.

gothsaurus wrote:Alien robots with EXAGGERATED ghetto, hick, australian, british accents make it tough to take a movie seriously... or suspend your disbelief. (Less so when it's an animated cartoon, of course.)

Fair enough, but if they really wanted to leave it for a character like, say, outback, it could be that upon arrival to earth and it's scans of the culture of the immediate area, as well as the bots own interest in human life, he might adapt it for himself... I can live with that... Bayverse movie aesthetics are what bug me most, so when its coupled with more ghetto looking gold toothed bots, who also speak in ebonics, its definitely silly instead of just unique, imo. S'not like I've ever seen any outback who has a head that looks like a dundee hat, or a vest.. or a necklace made out of teeth... But atleast theres only a few like that in the movie.. like Jetfire... and the Twins...

MINDVVIPE wrote:silly instead of just unique,

Well put. I think this hit the nail on the head. The movie bots are like caricatures or (sadly) racial stereotypes, instead of just unique characters...

Like you said, you go to far with it... it becomes silly. But a little bit isn't necessarily bad.

Noideaforaname wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:I assure you that thing won't remind you of Wheeljack when you're sat in that cinema...

I assure you he will, especially if his hair glows when he talks and spends most his time inventing stuff. And if Ironhide or somebody makes a comment about his inventions blowing up, I can assure you I'll be that obnoxious guy laughing FAR too hard in the theater.



.

Well your entitled to your opinion, as am I. So if they had a giant glowing turd that invented 'stuff' and glowed you'd be in your element? due to the 'personality'. On a personal note I take his character from the UK comics mainly.

gothsaurus wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:silly instead of just unique,

Well put. I think this hit the nail on the head. The movie bots are like caricatures or (sadly) racial stereotypes, instead of just unique characters...

Like you said, you go to far with it... it becomes silly. But a little bit isn't necessarily bad.

thats problem with bayer, he deals in stereotypes.

Seems to have a typical American, never travelled or studied other cultures attitude, so relies on the little snippets of stereotypes he has seen in the broadest of broadest comedies as an accurate reflection of race and nationality

(or at least thats how bay would portray an american in his movies if he decided to insult his own culture as opposed to others)

shamone wrote:thats problem with bayer, he deals in stereotypes.

Seems to have a typical American, never travelled or studied other cultures attitude, so relies on the little snippets of stereotypes he has seen in the broadest of broadest comedies as an accurate reflection of race and nationality

(or at least thats how bay would portray an american in his movies if he decided to insult his own culture as opposed to others)

Read the bold first, then the italics. In the same post, you said the problem with Bay is his use of stereotypes, and then you yourself used one to describe him. Pot calling the Kettle black? Nice "save" at the end claiming that would be "his" portrayal of an American, but that's still a pretty hypocritical statement to make.

ANYWAYS, on topic:
I'm reserving judgment on Wheeljack's appearance until how I see him on screen and see how he is portrayed. Right now, I don't like it that much. It's interesting, unique, and new, so I'll give it some credit. I just hope he delivers on-screen.

god your all such nerds, ''I want him to be this colour and not that colour!'' ''wheeljack has metal hair! which is bad but robots with realistic goatees that move like hair is okay'' idiots. G1 had plenty of stupid stuff aswell,

Joker'sRequiem wrote:

shamone wrote:[
.

ANYWAYS, on topic:
I'm reserving judgment on Wheeljack's appearance until how I see him on screen and see how he is portrayed. Right now, I don't like it that much. It's interesting, unique, and new, so I'll give it some credit. I just hope he delivers on-screen.

The cat is already out bag, no one is judging his on screen performance because we aint seen it yet, all we have are toy images, but they should give him a new name lookin like that.
I think the film may be quite good on this one, just lookin forward to the inevitable reboot and gettin some real talent behind it...Bays rubbish.

Joker'sRequiem wrote:

shamone wrote:thats problem with bayer, he deals in stereotypes.

Seems to have a typical American, never travelled or studied other cultures attitude, so relies on the little snippets of stereotypes he has seen in the broadest of broadest comedies as an accurate reflection of race and nationality

(or at least thats how bay would portray an american in his movies if he decided to insult his own culture as opposed to others)

Read the bold first, then the italics. In the same post, you said the problem with Bay is his use of stereotypes, and then you yourself used one to describe him. Pot calling the Kettle black? Nice "save" at the end claiming that would be "his" portrayal of an American, but that's still a pretty hypocritical statement to make.

ANYWAYS, on topic:
I'm reserving judgment on Wheeljack's appearance until how I see him on screen and see how he is portrayed. Right now, I don't like it that much. It's interesting, unique, and new, so I'll give it some credit. I just hope he delivers on-screen.

people really fail to understand things dont they. Because you read it out of order and your ironometer is kaputt, im being hypocritical

I didnt say americans were this way, i said that a simple broad view of US citizens, which has been propagated in media is the one i mentioned, and most likely the view Bay would take. It was an attempt (poor if you think it was) attempt at humour !

sentinelprime1234 wrote:god your all such nerds, ''I want him to be this colour and not that colour!'' ''wheeljack has metal hair! which is bad but robots with realistic goatees that move like hair is okay'' idiots. G1 had plenty of stupid stuff aswell,

Without us 'nerds' things would be a little quiet round here don't you think?

sentinelprime1234 wrote:god your all such nerds, ''I want him to be this colour and not that colour!'' ''wheeljack has metal hair! which is bad but robots with realistic goatees that move like hair is okay'' idiots. G1 had plenty of stupid stuff aswell,

So? Yeah they had some stupid stuff in G1, but please explain how you jump to the conclusion that we're all GEEWUNers and that we're nerds. There are bayverse fans like you that don't like it either.