The Energon Pub

by **Cliff Jumper** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:49 pm

I've seen the movie twice, and I agree that it could have been leaps and bounds better. The designs were neat, but just not Transformers designs. Giving the movie a better plot would have helped. I also think focusing more on the Autobot/Decepticon war would have added more to the film.

by **Spark Light** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:31 pm

Seen the movie yesterday, still stand by everything I said.

Though add to it that the movie is rather disjointed, it doesn't flow very well.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:34 pm

Spark Light wrote:Seen the movie yesterday, still stand by everything I said.

Though add to it that the movie is rather disjointed, it doesn't flow very well.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

Mine was that it kicked ass. It could've been better, but it was fine as-is.

News Credits: 1 · by **softimus_prime** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:42 pm

imo the movie is not an oscar winning movie but it's a money worth watching movie than let's say... sequels of aliens... that's my opinion only and im choosing my words carefully as king leonidas said to the persian messenger... :grin:

by **Nugget** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:02 pm

Honestly have these types of threads not become old and tiresome. Do we need more new ones, or old ones bumped? I think I've read every opinion imaginable. Nothing anyone says to each other at this point will sway an opinion one way or another. Freakin enough already.

News Credits: 4 · by **Briggs** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:30 pm

This movie was amazing, the story is great and a great start, and is a fine addition to the Transformers Universe, helping to cater to perhaps a different genre of Transformers fans.

Yayyyyyyyy good movie good movie!

Now, I must go back to my g1 dvds and watch the continuous struggle to make more energon cubes. Good day.

p.s. Uber fans didn't go wrong anywhere.

by **DarkFlameAngel** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:26 pm

Okay, first off, I'm a total noob to the Transformers universe. It was thanks to the random choice to go see the movie when it primered at Anime Expo on July 2nd that got me into it.

After seeing the movie 4 times, watching the entire first season of transformers, reading the prequel novel and the comic, and spending hours researching the millions of different charaters, I am pleased to say I absolutely love the movie.

I'm glad they did the movie like they did, its got enough action to keep me coming back for more, but there's also the option of getting deeper into the movie by reading the comics and novels that surrounded the movie, helping make it a little bit more rounded.

I think the movie allows for the people who are really interested in getting to know more about the Transformers universe to do so, while also entertaining people who just want to go see something totally new and exciting in theaters this summer.

I feel bad for people who imagined something completely different from what the movie turned out to be. I really think it would have only appealed to a small crowd if they had stuck to the prexisting plots, ideas and characters.

For me personally, it was a great experience that allowed me to venture into a new world that I would have never thought of exploring before. So thanks, TF movie, for getting me where I am today in the Transformers world.

I just hope that people like myself who appreciate the movie in a different way than the TF veterans will be accepted into this fandom kindly.

News Credits: 1 · by **softimus_prime** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:29 pm

DarkFlameAngel wrote:Okay, first off, I'm a total noob to the Transformers universe. It was thanks to the random choice to go see the movie when it primered at Anime Expo on July 2nd that got me into it.

After seeing the movie 4 times, watching the entire first season of transformers, reading the prequel novel and the comic, and spending hours researching the millions of different charaters, I am pleased to say I absolutely love the movie.

I'm glad they did the movie like they did, its got enough action to keep me coming back for more, but there's also the option of getting deeper into the movie by reading the comics and novels that surrounded the movie, helping make it a little bit more rounded.

I think the movie allows for the people who are really interested in getting to know more about the Transformers universe to do so, while also entertaining people who just want to go see something totally new and exciting in theaters this summer.

I feel bad for people who imagined something completely different from what the movie turned out to be. I really think it would have only appealed to a small crowd if they had stuck to the prexisting plots, ideas and characters.

For me personally, it was a great experience that allowed me to venture into a new world that I would have never thought of exploring before. So thanks, TF movie, for getting me where I am today in the Transformers world.

I just hope that people like myself who appreciate the movie in a different way than the TF veterans will be accepted into this fandom kindly.

welcome to the wonderful world of Seibertron.com feel free to post and seems that your one of the pro's of the movie...

by **Rocky87** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:12 pm

I think there were only two places where the movie went wrong.

1)The gags. Yeah, there were some that were really funny. The jokes in there, for the most part, I thought were sufficiently side-splitting. But they reached a point where the gags and such became *too* much (the masturbating joke, BB peeing on Simmons).

2)Megan Fox. Can she act? Honestly, I think she's compitent enough to carry herself through the film, but it's not her acting that bugs me. It's how she's portrayed. And this is partly Bay's fault as well, but she's more eye candy than any film needs. I mean, I read a review for Transformers where four-fifths of it was devoted to "how Megan's a FOX!!!!!". When that happens, I think the movie has failed in that respect.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:43 pm

DarkFlameAngel wrote:A lot of stuff

See, this is what I wanted to see from the movie. New fans. And not the sort that just jumped on the bandwagon, fans that then took the time to go back and learn of all the other TF series (when you've finished the G1 cartoon, go for the Beast Wars stuff).

Welcome to the lovely fun that is Seibertron.com and it's movie forum.

Oh and play HMW and check out the fan-fic and artwork forum.

by **Night Raid** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:11 pm

Was it a good movie? Was it a bad movie? I don't know.

And, quite frankly, I DON'T SLAGGING CARE.

I enjoyed the movie VERY MUCH, thank you. And that's all that matters to me.

by **zemper** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:07 am

DarkFlameAngel wrote:Okay, first off, I'm a total noob to the Transformers universe. It was thanks to the random choice to go see the movie when it primered at Anime Expo on July 2nd that got me into it. ...

...For me personally, it was a great experience that allowed me to venture into a new world that I would have never thought of exploring before. So thanks, TF movie, for getting me where I am today in the Transformers world....

...I just hope that people like myself who appreciate the movie in a different way than the TF veterans will be accepted into this fandom kindly.

i agree with burn.

i won't say any more 'cause this has been going on countless times in this forum and others and frankly it gets really tiring. i'm sure you'd concur with me here.

i'd say the movie was good. why? the mere fact that we have one TFan who DIDN'T even know about the ole G1 days become obsessed with the franchise is the answer. doesn't matter if you grew up in the 80s, 90s or 00s. transformers will, and always will be, transformers. and along with it a new generation of fans who will carry on the flame. 'nuff said.

so, welcome to the world of TFs, DarkFlameAngel.

[/i]

by **Cornicer** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:34 am

I agree with the OP, I think this movie very well could have been much better in terms of plot, characterization, etc.

That would have made this movie the most awesome movie on the face of the earth, but as it is: It's still good.

Here's how I look at it: It's a good intro 'chapter' for the trilogy(praying that the sequel makes enough money), and really is pretty much your standard TF intro that we see played out at the beginning of just about every TF series(starting right at the beginning with MTMTE 1-3. Transformers arrive for Mcguffin-device, Autobot befriends a human, Decepticons wreak havok, Autobots are hunted down by humans, Autobots earn the trust of said humans somehow, and come back from behind to kick Deceptibutt).

I can't say I honestly expected much more, but it would have been much, much better if there was more to it.

For the next one though.... such an overused plot formula(Please no Galvy/Unicron.... PLEASE!!) and lack of focus on the characters(c'mon; their personalities and dynamics are the very reason TFs survived and didn't flop out like Diaclone) will not wield such a pleasant experience for me, though.

by **CJH** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:34 am

roy_flagg00 wrote:I watched a movie called "blue chips" last night, and nick nolte, the main character, a basketball coach, said something I think that really encapsulates my problem with the movie perfectly:"you can't win half assed"
I keep hearing people say, "it made money", or "it was not a deep movie, but it was not meant to be".
thats crap.
lord of the rings and harry potter exhibit that you can have a mature plot, well developed characters, even a dark atmosphere, and still have the movie considered to be "family friendly" and have mass appeal.
"masters of the universe", remember that one?
in my opinion, some of dolph lundgren's and frank langella's best acting, pretty good story, but bad direction.
that movie could have been great, but the did it half assed.
the sad part is that transformers, with all the new special effects, is for me still comparable with "masters of the universe", and did not outdo it's predecessor in terms of plot, character development, or scale.
scale being the fact that the most recent transformers movie took place on one planet, the cartoon movie took place on 4.

Are you serious? You wanted this live-action film to go to loads of planets??
If it's about why the 1980s film was so much better, I cannot agree. As much as I DID love that particular film, get real, it really wasn't anything other than a merchandise monster; killing off over half of the original and beloved cast just to make more toys? And people say this new film is bad for marketting??
And really, series 3 and 4 that followed the film were so convoluted with flying off to other planets and meeting weird aliens, was the original premise of "Robots in Disguise" even in effect?? Hardly, it was just robots who happen to change into space vehicles and fight each other.
The true, first idea was robots come to Earth and transform into every day vehicles to be "in disguise", the Autobot faction trying to protect the befriended human race against the evil Decepticons. That's it! Yes they came from Cybertron, but the original premise was always on Earth.

People blame the new film for having a plot that is broken up and not structured, when really, jetting off into space and visiting multiple planets, all in one (and technically first) film?? The plot would be a mess and most of the viewing public wouldn't get any of it.
Now in my opinion, way back at the START of G1, the idea was simple, and it reeled in the beginnings of the fanbase we have now. This film is merely reintroducing Transformers to a general public who don't know what a Unicron is.

As for the style being "not serious".. I do sympathise because originally that's what I wanted too. However, I changed my mind; Transformers at the start, was a saturday morning cartoon based on toys with silly dialogue and bad guys who fluff up their plans and go, "Dang, I'll get you next time!" and fly off.

Basically what I'm getting at - and yes, it is my opinion - the film didn't do anything wrong. Big scale, it would have been too much. Too serious, it would have lost potential audience right off the bat.
I'm not saying it's PERFECT, I'm not stupid, but it was entertaining, like it should be.
Undoubtedly the next films (garanteed to happen) will have a LOT more robots in them now that they have set it up, and know so much money can be made.

by **CJH** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:37 am

I'm also glad to see DarkFlameAngel found it entertainining

having been new to the whole thing. Simple storylines are always the best at starting something. Less is more.

News Credits: 4 · by **Briggs** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:23 pm

Cornicer wrote:That would have made this movie the most awesome movie on the face of the earth, but as it is: It's still good.

Well, in your opinion maybe, but it's entirely possible that if the movie was made 110% the way you wanted it, that I, or someone else could say "It could have been made better".

So really, this is all a waste. It was made the way it was, any movie ever made could have been made better, and there will always be people to say so.

P.s. CJH just owned this thread! Agree 100% with you, sir. Infact, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

by **CJH** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:44 pm

Briggs wrote:P.s. CJH just owned this thread! Agree 100% with you, sir. Infact, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Haha

why thank you Briggs.

by **Sonray** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:51 pm

It was a good movie. Lots of us fans liked it, its made a crapload of money and a sequel is in the works. Stop whining about something you didnt like and just get over it already. We've already seen this same thread a million times already and nothing anyone says is going to change the fact that the movie has been made, been a gigantic success and theres nothing you can do to change it.

Change the record once in a while cos im fed up with all these "waaah waaah waaah my beloved G1 franchise wasnt remade as a live action, deep, philosophical epic oscar winning movie waaah waah!"

by **Coolyfett** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:57 pm

Spark Light wrote:Seen the movie yesterday, still stand by everything I said.

Though add to it that the movie is rather disjointed, it doesn't flow very well.

Hey Sparklight..How many times have you seen TF1??

by **Coolyfett** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:22 pm

DarkFlameAngel wrote:Okay, first off, I'm a total noob to the Transformers universe. It was thanks to the random choice to go see the movie when it primered at Anime Expo on July 2nd that got me into it.

After seeing the movie 4 times, watching the entire first season of transformers, reading the prequel novel and the comic, and spending hours researching the millions of different charaters, I am pleased to say I absolutely love the movie.

I'm glad they did the movie like they did, its got enough action to keep me coming back for more, but there's also the option of getting deeper into the movie by reading the comics and novels that surrounded the movie, helping make it a little bit more rounded.

I think the movie allows for the people who are really interested in getting to know more about the Transformers universe to do so, while also entertaining people who just want to go see something totally new and exciting in theaters this summer.

I feel bad for people who imagined something completely different from what the movie turned out to be. I really think it would have only appealed to a small crowd if they had stuck to the prexisting plots, ideas and characters.

For me personally, it was a great experience that allowed me to venture into a new world that I would have never thought of exploring before. So thanks, TF movie, for getting me where I am today in the Transformers world.

I just hope that people like myself who appreciate the movie in a different way than the TF veterans will be accepted into this fandom kindly.

Wow......dang.....ahmm..... I think thats what its all about about. People just becoming FANS. Look people, some folks like TF1 & some folks do not. Personally I think TF1 could have been better, but its in the books now. Everyone is going to see the next 2 movies anyway. I just signed up for this site maybe a week ago. I didn't even know there were this many Transformers fans....Looks likes the Transformers franchise may even get bigger then Starwars. I don't collect toys or read comic books, Personally I am too old for that, BUT[/b] I do remember watching Transformers after school. I do remember getting Optimus Prime for Xmas in 85. I remember trading Starscream & StormShadow(gijoe) for Megatron only to come home and my mom took it away because she didn't want me playing with guns. Memories is why I post here. Memories is the reason I went to see TF1. It's just entertainment. It doesn't pay bills or mortgage. Transformers is just a way relax and remember the easy years. [/i]

by **Spark Light** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:20 pm

Sonray wrote:It was a good movie. Lots of us fans liked it, its made a crapload of money and a sequel is in the works. Stop whining about something you didnt like and just get over it already. We've already seen this same thread a million times already and nothing anyone says is going to change the fact that the movie has been made, been a gigantic success and theres nothing you can do to change it.

Change the record once in a while cos im fed up with all these "waaah waaah waaah my beloved G1 franchise wasnt remade as a live action, deep, philosophical epic oscar winning movie waaah waah!"

Yes, we know.

You're intolerant of other people's opinions. You're proud of it, and your simplistic moral conscience seems to think you're not doing anything wrong.

People should not stop whining, which is expressing an opposing opinion, because you are sick of it. How do you think some people feel about people going on and on about how great the movie is? Why is one viewpoint acceptable and the other isn't?

by **Nightracer GT** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:33 pm

Spark Light wrote:I was always pretty iffy on the movie, but one thing actually got me really excited over it - back when the Transformers game website was released, it had that epic picture of Prime and Megatron, and the most epic Lord of the Rings style music in the background.

I thought, Wow, maybe this movie will be something special after all, despite Bay directing.

But it really isn't, not like that.

The point is that there are so many terrible, logically unsound defenses for things in the movie, but the worst has to be "It's just an action flick".

Yet I'm harkening back to seeing that page and hearing that music, and feeling really up for it. Amazingly, Transformers did NOT look ridiculous being set to serious, deep, epic music.

This is where the movie went wrong - it COULD have been epic. Lots of tweaks along the way would have helped the feel of the movie towards this end - tidier, more varied designs(too much grey/black), drawing more from the comics, and other things like that, but ultimately, this needed to be a lot huger than it was, instead of being Epic, it was an Epic Fail on that front.

Think about it. Why is Transformers such a silly idea? Why can't it have anything more than a popcorn flick?

It's about two warring alien factions, destroying their world for power, and in their struggle arriving on our world with us torn in between, but trying to hide amongst us all the same.

I don't know about you, but that sounds epic. In fact, it sounds like it could be the start of the most epic story ever made. Have I drilled that in yet?

"Transformers isn't shakespear" - I don't know if you noticed, but even Shakespear was quite whimsical, so it shows people aren't thinking through that comparison at all. It doesn't matter. Transformers fans are the ones who seem to take of note of the fact that they're "Just Toys" - they claim the general public do, but they do it far more often than anyone else.

Why? Probably because we've had to deal with so much **** the last few years. People defending the changes in design, etc., fail to realise that only G1 was really universally liked and loved on *some* level, it was the only Transformers to truly pierce the mainstream, and is still recognisable today; people have already forgotten Armada.

People have had to put up with so much bad "change", watering down, they've never stopped to realise what Transformers COULD be, what changes would actually be best - most of us have become Toy collectors, and have little attatchment to the characters. I've never seen a fanbase so willing to defend a movie that bears a little too much resemblence to the Super Mario Brothers movie in terms of cheesy Hollywood "Getting things somewhat wrong" syndrome.

I feel that thinking Transformers could only be a popcorn flick is where Hollywood went wrong here. We've seen from the G1, G2 comics and Beast Wars that Transformers can be epic. You could make an epic movie out of Tetris if you wanted to - something that's already BEEN well developed getting something with such a weak plot is just sad.

I wanted Transformers to be something really special. Something to fill children and adults alike with wonder and love for these amazing characters and where they're coming from.

You all thought that changing the designs was necessary for making it "Not for Kids", but what I'm saying is what needed to be done, and you know it. It's not even that much to do with the designs, if you want a Mature Transformers movie, you have a mature plot and well developed characters. This movie fell below the G1 Cartoon in some of those respects, which isn't something to celebrate.

The Decepticons should not have been monsters, they should have gone the opposite direction - an opposing faction that aren't necessarily always wrong, but are still more or less "The Bad Guys". Moral ambiguity. Decepticons we can relate to. One thing they should have taken out of Armada(Starscream). The focus should not have been on stereotypical, relatively uninteresting humans.

I'm sorry for not conforming to the ridiculous notion that the characters and universe I love are nothing but a folly. I'm sorry for the fans that feel the same way I do and have managed to persevere being active through this for a lot longer than I have.

The reason you're wrong is because that's not how the rest of the world sees it. The general public never would have accepted Lord of the Allsparks.

And nor would I. I usually groan when "Lord of the Rings style music" comes on, unless I'm actually watching Lord of the Rings, which I limit myself to only at Christmas Break so it doesn't get stale.

I'd prefer a popcorn action flick with a weak plot to yet another 2x4 over the head of so-called "epic" style. There's no subtlety and there's no true depth, just a bunch of overblown RPG dialogue given merit by grandiloquent psuedo-shakespearean gusto. The books were way better aside from the battle scenes, which were quite boring for someone who was in the trenches of WWI. Maybe he couln't bring himself to relive the nightmare. Robert Jordan has the same problem.

So when it comes time for an action movie, I know it will never be deep, because the last deep action movie came out in 1991 about a delinquet kid on a dirt bike who would grow up to command an army against robot resistance. They actually made something like that not only deep, but tragic and awe-inspiring, and they did it without hitting me over the head with a baseball bat of "epic style".

Though one movie came close to deep. Quite close. About a millionare who comes home after 7 years in a Chines prison to find his home town overrun with crime, so he constructs all this elaborate imagery to scare the criminals out of town. That movie was pretty deep. Also quite subtle.

But otherwise, I expect an action movie to be as shallow as possible, because otherwise it will be lame, except in some rare cases.

Transformers could have been far better than that movie, true. I'm picturing in my mind right now a scene of say Sam in the Decepticon's base, hiding behind something huge while in the background Con voices play out in an argument in which their dialogue reveals all of their characterization and intent, and the fans think "yeah, that's my boy _______ right there!" It would have been cool, and they could have done it.

But it never would have happened. Hollywood doesn't care about us, because our tastes are more refined then the general public's in this case. What we would have liked would have been lame in their eyes.

We did not need Lord of the Allsparks, and I for one am glad we didn't get it, because Hollywood can't manufacture epic. Nobody can. Epic is something that happens on it's own.

by **wingdarkness** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:48 pm

Pretty good thread...Other than sifting thru Blackout apologising for Bay and almost every questionable element of this film it was an enjoyavble read...

Personally when I think of epic, I think of movies with souls...An epic doesn't necessarily mean biggest action scene...Sometimes the very subtle things, attention to detail that make a film epic...When I think back on something like Empire strikes Back I don't nesesarily think about the Huge action sequences, I think about that scene when Luke jumps from below Vader to counter him and Vader says, "Impresssive, Most impressive..." Or in Indy3 I think of the Holy Knight saying "He choose poorly..." after the guy chooses the wrong cup...

Basically not to denegrate the great action in both of these movies (or movies I haven't mentioned), but it's the little things that impress me...Any director with a big budget can pull off a generic action scene, how many of them can make you appreciate an otherwise pedestrian scene just as much if not more than the scene MEANT to be epic??

10 years from now you're not gonna remember the little things in this movie IMO...Your just gonna remember some robots smashed some $hit and to some I know that's more than enuff but to others it's sad...Truly sad when you think about 20 plus years of waiting coming to frution...

You know how the spiderman and xmen movies open up with those beautiful comic-book re-adaptations...I thought something like that would have been ideal for TF's...You know taking newer and older audiences thru a visual trip on the evolution of TFs as they introduce the movie, giving it a feel of "More than meets the eye" ..Scenes with Megatron going at it with Starscream or Prime and the rest rolling out...That way the audience that knew nothing of TF would have had a visual nugget to chew on when they saw them re-introduced in the movie...But like I said you have to have a director willing to engage the audienmce on a level beyond the generic lowest common denominator, and that's why this movie will never be epic in my book, because it's truly lacking when it comes to soul and the details within that...

Again if you take Transformers out of this movie, you have a thousand different movies with the same ole tired formulaic, generic qualities IMO...But that's how it goes...

by **Spark Light** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:59 pm

Dark Zarak wrote:The reason you're wrong is because that's not how the rest of the world sees it. The general public never would have accepted Lord of the Allsparks.

Not only is that arrogant and pompous sounding, it's based on the fallacy of appeal to majority, after a sense anyway.

And nor would I. I usually groan when "Lord of the Rings style music" comes on, unless I'm actually watching Lord of the Rings, which I limit myself to only at Christmas Break so it doesn't get stale.

I'd prefer a popcorn action flick with a weak plot to yet another 2x4 over the head of so-called "epic" style. There's no subtlety and there's no true depth, just a bunch of overblown RPG dialogue given merit by grandiloquent psuedo-shakespearean gusto.

Yes, because Lord of the Rings is the ONLY way an Epic movie can be done.

Not to mention, even though you ironically played up the majority, you're in the minority when it comes to your dislike of a LOTR style presentation.

The books were way better aside from the battle scenes, which were quite boring for someone who was in the trenches of WWI. Maybe he couln't bring himself to relive the nightmare. Robert Jordan has the same problem.

So when it comes time for an action movie, I know it will never be deep,

Transformers should never have been a flat out "action movie" to begin with, but a sci-fi along the lines of Star Wars.

But it never would have happened. Hollywood doesn't care about us, because our tastes are more refined then the general public's in this case. What we would have liked would have been lame in their eyes.

Yet movies still get made which are far more tasteful and competent than Transformers was, based on source material that's not really a ton more realistic.

We did not need Lord of the Allsparks, and I for one am glad we didn't get it, because Hollywood can't manufacture epic. Nobody can. Epic is something that happens on it's own.

There are so many things wrong with this attitude, I'm not sure where to begin. It seems you're assuming an unlikely and pessimistic position to achieve intellectual reasons for forwarding what is in some ways an anti-intellectual agenda.

An Epic Tale is an Epic Tale. If nobody tried to make an Epic Tale, we'd have none. Epic can't happen entirely on it's own - it wouldn't be epic if it was, just a series of random events. Epic is to do with the way something is structured from the get go. It's perhaps less to do with what's been done, and more to do with who's doing it. Bay was about the least epic person you could get.

Here's hoping for Spielberg himself in the sequel.