The Energon Pub

i believe in a higher power, but i sure as hell dont call it god!

I respect your belief.

Auto Bot wrote:What do you believe in?

I'll tell you when I get back from work as I don't have the time to exsplain right now.

It was in my original post last night that got deleted by the damn "No Post Mode Specified" Somebody fix that, it's the most annoying thing ever.

Saber Prime wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:What do you believe in?

I'll tell you when I get back from work as I don't have the time to exsplain right now.

It was in my original post last night that got deleted by the damn "No Post Mode Specified" Somebody fix that, it's the most annoying thing ever.

Saber Prime wrote:Crap did it again.

I'll just answer the immediate question and answer the rest tomarrow.

I'm Athiest, I do not belive in God, Satain, angels, devils, Heaven, or Hell.

Then I dont understand your bases for believeing that two counterparts from different universe's that lived completly different lives are the same characters???

Auto Bot wrote:I respect your belief.

i may not agree with everybodies beliefs, but i respect them

My thoughts:

Identical twins do have identical DNA. Difference in fingerprints (and other physical elements) is a difference in phenotypes, which are the result of the environmental effects on the genotype.

I thought Jonathan Crane was really well done in Batman Begins. I also liked Ra's Al Ghul, especially given that they (apparently) didn't want to touch on his more supernatural aspects. I did notice they pronounced his name differently to how it was spoken in The Animated Series. I'm not sure which is correct.

Kevin Conroy was brilliant (as was the rest of the cast) and The Animated Series was a fantastic interpretation.

Leonardo wrote:My thoughts:

Identical twins do have identical DNA. Difference in fingerprints (and other physical elements) is a difference in phenotypes, which are the result of the environmental effects on the genotype.

I thought Jonathan Crane was really well done in Batman Begins. I also liked Ra's Al Ghul, especially given that they (apparently) didn't want to touch on his more supernatural aspects. I did notice they pronounced his name differently to how it was spoken in The Animated Series. I'm not sure which is correct.

Kevin Conroy was brilliant (as was the rest of the cast) and The Animated Series was a fantastic interpretation.

That depends on who you ask.Most fans of the character from his beginings fron the 70's have been pronounceing it like in the movie for years but it was incorrect.The creaters of the character have stated that the Animated Series got it right and I myself have done some research on the topic when I was a studant at NYU.....the name comes from a old Arabic dilac and the proper pronounceation is very close to the one used in The Animated Series.They also spelled it wrong on the script for Begins....the name has a hifin in it but the script left it out.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Leonardo wrote:My thoughts:

Identical twins do have identical DNA. Difference in fingerprints (and other physical elements) is a difference in phenotypes, which are the result of the environmental effects on the genotype.

I thought Jonathan Crane was really well done in Batman Begins. I also liked Ra's Al Ghul, especially given that they (apparently) didn't want to touch on his more supernatural aspects. I did notice they pronounced his name differently to how it was spoken in The Animated Series. I'm not sure which is correct.

Kevin Conroy was brilliant (as was the rest of the cast) and The Animated Series was a fantastic interpretation.

That depends on who you ask.Most fans of the character from his beginnings from the 70's have been pronouncing it like in the movie for years but it was incorrect.The creators of the character have stated that the Animated Series got it right and I myself have done some research on the topic when I was a student at NYU.....the name comes from a old Arabic dilac and the proper pronunciation is very close to the one used in The Animated Series.They also spelled it wrong on the script for Begins....the name has a hifin in it but the script left it out.

now if you just said what the name ment, i could have called you sto_vo_pedia

but i think i should have known Rā's al Ghūl meant "the ghoul's head"; i've looked up Batman characters enough to read that atleast half a dozen times.

heh Klingon and there derailment of forums

So did this spawn from Prime and Magnus being called twins or something? I'm afraid to look back more than a page at this point. Batman and his long lived villain can't be Ultramagnus, although Bruce might like a pointier helmet and a repaint.

I remember posting in this thread before page 6...

AxiomScion wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Leonardo wrote:My thoughts:

Identical twins do have identical DNA. Difference in fingerprints (and other physical elements) is a difference in phenotypes, which are the result of the environmental effects on the genotype.

I thought Jonathan Crane was really well done in Batman Begins. I also liked Ra's Al Ghul, especially given that they (apparently) didn't want to touch on his more supernatural aspects. I did notice they pronounced his name differently to how it was spoken in The Animated Series. I'm not sure which is correct.

Kevin Conroy was brilliant (as was the rest of the cast) and The Animated Series was a fantastic interpretation.

That depends on who you ask.Most fans of the character from his beginnings from the 70's have been pronouncing it like in the movie for years but it was incorrect.The creators of the character have stated that the Animated Series got it right and I myself have done some research on the topic when I was a student at NYU.....the name comes from a old Arabic dilac and the proper pronunciation is very close to the one used in The Animated Series.They also spelled it wrong on the script for Begins....the name has a hifin in it but the script left it out.

now if you just said what the name ment, i could have called you sto_vo_pedia

but i think i should have known Rā's al Ghūl meant "the ghoul's head"; i've looked up Batman characters enough to read that atleast half a dozen times.

heh Klingon and there derailment of forums
...

You forgot to mention that the word "ghoul's" in the old Arabic translates into Deamon's or Devil's.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Crap did it again.

I'll just answer the immediate question and answer the rest tomarrow.

I'm Athiest, I do not belive in God, Satain, angels, devils, Heaven, or Hell.

Then I dont understand your bases for believeing that two counterparts from different universe's that lived completly different lives are the same characters???

I said what I don't belive in. I never exsplained what I did belive in. You were correct when you said.

one that beleaves that your personalty is derived from your soul

Because I don't belive in Heaven or Hell the main difference in this belife from others is that people who belive there is a heaven and a hell belive that the Ghosts that still haunt the Earth are here because they're "traped between worlds" I do not share that belife. As far as I can tell they're not "traped" at all, they're free to move about as they wish.

And if there are any belivers out there, keep it to yourself. I would not of brought up my own belifes in respect for others if he had not asked. I allways think it verry disrespectfull of my own belifes when people try to convince me there is a God. Pray for me if you feel you must as I know others have done the same but it will do niether of us any good.

Saber Prime wrote:I said what I don't belive in. I never exsplained what I did belive in. You were correct when you said.

one that beleaves that your personalty is derived from your soul

Because I don't belive in Heaven or Hell the main difference in this belife from others is that people who belive there is a heaven and a hell belive that the Ghosts that still haunt the Earth are here because they're "traped between worlds" I do not share that belife. As far as I can tell they're not "traped" at all, they're free to move about as they wish.

And if there are any belivers out there, keep it to yourself. I would not of brought up my own belifes in respect for others if he had not asked. I allways think it verry disrespectfull of my own belifes when people try to convince me there is a God. Pray for me if you feel you must as I know others have done the same but it will do niether of us any good.

Well that at least explains the bases of your "different universe same character" theroy.Its simular to the "Avatar theroy".

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I said what I don't belive in. I never exsplained what I did belive in. You were correct when you said.

one that beleaves that your personalty is derived from your soul

Because I don't belive in Heaven or Hell the main difference in this belife from others is that people who belive there is a heaven and a hell belive that the Ghosts that still haunt the Earth are here because they're "traped between worlds" I do not share that belife. As far as I can tell they're not "traped" at all, they're free to move about as they wish.

And if there are any belivers out there, keep it to yourself. I would not of brought up my own belifes in respect for others if he had not asked. I allways think it verry disrespectfull of my own belifes when people try to convince me there is a God. Pray for me if you feel you must as I know others have done the same but it will do niether of us any good.

Well that at least explains the bases of your "different universe same character" theroy.Its simular to the "Avatar theroy".

By "Avatar" I assume you mean the cartoon where he lives several different lives following a chain. Each time being born into a different kingdom. (I belive the pattern was Fire, Air, Water, Earth but all I know for sure is he's currently the last Air bender is his most recent incarnation before that was a member of the Fire nation.)

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I said what I don't belive in. I never exsplained what I did belive in. You were correct when you said.

one that beleaves that your personalty is derived from your soul

Because I don't belive in Heaven or Hell the main difference in this belife from others is that people who belive there is a heaven and a hell belive that the Ghosts that still haunt the Earth are here because they're "traped between worlds" I do not share that belife. As far as I can tell they're not "traped" at all, they're free to move about as they wish.

And if there are any belivers out there, keep it to yourself. I would not of brought up my own belifes in respect for others if he had not asked. I allways think it verry disrespectfull of my own belifes when people try to convince me there is a God. Pray for me if you feel you must as I know others have done the same but it will do niether of us any good.

Well that at least explains the bases of your "different universe same character" theroy.Its simular to the "Avatar theroy".

By "Avatar" I assume you mean the cartoon where he lives several different lives following a chain. Each time being born into a different kingdom. (I belive the pattern was Fire, Air, Water, Earth but all I know for sure is he's currently the last Air bender is his most recent incarnation before that was a member of the Fire nation.)

No I'm not fimiluar with that cartoon...sorry.What I mean by Avatar is a divived whole......meaning one soul divived into many bodys.Its from Hindu philosophy.And I'm not implying that you subscrube to that philosophy just that your way of thinking on this topic are is simular.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I said what I don't belive in. I never exsplained what I did belive in. You were correct when you said.

one that beleaves that your personalty is derived from your soul

Because I don't belive in Heaven or Hell the main difference in this belife from others is that people who belive there is a heaven and a hell belive that the Ghosts that still haunt the Earth are here because they're "traped between worlds" I do not share that belife. As far as I can tell they're not "traped" at all, they're free to move about as they wish.

And if there are any belivers out there, keep it to yourself. I would not of brought up my own belifes in respect for others if he had not asked. I allways think it verry disrespectfull of my own belifes when people try to convince me there is a God. Pray for me if you feel you must as I know others have done the same but it will do niether of us any good.

Well that at least explains the bases of your "different universe same character" theroy.Its simular to the "Avatar theroy".

By "Avatar" I assume you mean the cartoon where he lives several different lives following a chain. Each time being born into a different kingdom. (I belive the pattern was Fire, Air, Water, Earth but all I know for sure is he's currently the last Air bender is his most recent incarnation before that was a member of the Fire nation.)

No I'm not fimiluar with that cartoon...sorry.What I mean by Avatar is a divived whole......meaning one soul divived into many bodys.Its from Hindu philosophy.And I'm not implying that you subscrube to that philosophy just that your way of thinking on this topic are is simular.

It's actully the same body in this case. Your body from one dimention to the next is not much different than one time from another. Maybe about as different as from when you were 16 to now.

The only develpoing changes that can occur physically would be that of of different hair syals or maybe your nose is shaped differnetly due to a break when you were twelve. Your eyes naturally would allways be the same color but with the use of colored contacts you could change that from one world to the next as well. (That is if you require contacts. I don't think they're made JUST for changing your color)

My face straingly enough has not changed at all from when I was little. (other than the fact I have a beard and that's only grown out to hide the fact I still look like a little kid underneath.)

Saber Prime wrote:It's actully the same body in this case. Your body from one dimention to the next is not much different than one time from another. Maybe about as different as from when you were 16 to now.

The only develpoing changes that can occur physically would be that of of different hair syals or maybe your nose is shaped differnetly due to a break when you were twelve. Your eyes naturally would allways be the same color but with the use of colored contacts you could change that from one world to the next as well. (That is if you require contacts. I don't think they're made JUST for changing your color)

My face straingly enough has not changed at all from when I was little. (other than the fact I have a beard and that's only grown out to hide the fact I still look like a little kid underneath.)

Like I said I understand you way of seeing it but its my opinion that the two versions of you would be different characters.Your seeing it more from a point of view of if the universe had just split recently but with the exsamples I provided you from Star Trek the changes in the two universe's were made close to 400 years before those characters were born....you still havent givin me a posable explaination as to why you would say that both versions of Sisko or Kira [or any of the Mirror Universe counterparts] are the same character.Can you please tell me why you think their the same character?????

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:It's actully the same body in this case. Your body from one dimention to the next is not much different than one time from another. Maybe about as different as from when you were 16 to now.

The only develpoing changes that can occur physically would be that of of different hair syals or maybe your nose is shaped differnetly due to a break when you were twelve. Your eyes naturally would allways be the same color but with the use of colored contacts you could change that from one world to the next as well. (That is if you require contacts. I don't think they're made JUST for changing your color)

My face straingly enough has not changed at all from when I was little. (other than the fact I have a beard and that's only grown out to hide the fact I still look like a little kid underneath.)

Like I said I understand you way of seeing it but its my opinion that the two versions of you would be different characters.Your seeing it more from a point of view of if the universe had just split recently but with the exsamples I provided you from Star Trek the changes in the two universe's were made close to 400 years before those characters were born....you still havent givin me a posable explaination as to why you would say that both versions of Sisko or Kira [or any of the Mirror Universe counterparts] are the same character.Can you please tell me why you think their the same character?????

That "Tree" I mentioned before. It's not really a "Tree" in the sence that it grows from the ground up.

It grows out in all directions. The "seed" is both the begining and the end of the Multiverse.

When the Universe first began there was only a circle growing around and back to the seed. Then it grows out again this time with new branches.

Eventually the universe has repeated itself so many times in the different multiverses that it's impossible to tell where the seed is.

DeJaVu (this is my own therie not the "it's a form of psychic ability" therie I got off some TV show) is caused by the continued multiverse. You feel like you've done something before because you actully have done it before in another universe. The more you have in common with another universe versions of yourself the more offten you exsperience this feeling.

Your family structure more or less stays the same as long as your parrents actully have kids at the same time in each universe and your grandparrents have your parrents and so on. One part of that chain gets broken and you never exsist in that dimention at all.

In Sisko's case even though they don't share the same life they do still share the same family history otherwise one could not exsist at all.

I still fail to understand your whole "different personalities = different characters".

Let's say a 7 year old kid loves school, gets grades, is well behaved but grows up to be a 17 year old who hates school, never does any home work, and does drugs. This is the same person just something happen in thoughs 10 years that changed him for the worse. Would you say these are differen't characters?

Saber Prime wrote:That "Tree" I mentioned before. It's not really a "Tree" in the sence that it grows from the ground up.

It grows out in all directions. The "seed" is both the begining and the end of the Multiverse.

When the Universe first began there was only a circle growing around and back to the seed. Then it grows out again this time with new branches.

Eventually the universe has repeated itself so many times in the different multiverses that it's impossible to tell where the seed is.

DeJaVu (this is my own therie not the "it's a form of psychic ability" therie I got off some TV show) is caused by the continued multiverse. You feel like you've done something before because you actully have done it before in another universe. The more you have in common with another universe versions of yourself the more offten you exsperience this feeling.

Your family structure more or less stays the same as long as your parrents actully have kids at the same time in each universe and your grandparrents have your parrents and so on. One part of that chain gets broken and you never exsist in that dimention at all.

In Sisko's case even though they don't share the same life they do still share the same family history otherwise one could not exsist at all.

I still fail to understand your whole "different personalities = different characters".

Let's say a 7 year old kid loves school, gets grades, is well behaved but grows up to be a 17 year old who hates school, never does any home work, and does drugs. This is the same person just something happen in thoughs 10 years that changed him for the worse. Would you say these are differen't characters?

well you brought up some points that I'll address in a moment but first its interesting that you pointed out the Sisco case.Because his case is the strongest one in the Mirror counterparts being different characters issue.

To give you some facts on the character it is important to first know that mainstream universe Ben Sisko is part Bajoren profitt[God]he is a Demigod like Herculese. A Bajoren god left the wormhole and inhabitit a woman called Sahra and forced her to marry Joseph Sisko so that they could have a child that would one day become the become "The Emissary" and one they drive the parwraifts [fallen gods] from Bajor and then take his place amongest the other Bajoren Gods.

In the Mirror Ben Sisko is not part Bajoren God.Their Bajor's Gods were crule and have long forgotten Bajor.Josseph Sisko was forced to mate with Sahra for breading porperses so to increse the amount of terren Slaves.No god inhabited her body and her son was not part god.As you can see this is a major differences in the Ben Sisko's wouldnt you say????

Now as to you family structure statement: What if your parents didnt have kids at the same time?There is a old question when it pretains to the Counter Part theroy as it effects Quatom phisic's [Spelling?]the question is "How can you be younger then you are right now?" The answer is that in a alternate universe your parents may have had you in a different time frame.And if that is the case then are you of that other time still you????These questions have been a staple of the feild for years with many different ideas on how to answer them.I have been looking for your point of view.

As for the 7 year old boy to 17 year old teen issue I would just classifie that as character grouth.Life events have changed his point of view on life.Again falling to my point that life's events form your personality.

Witch again bring's us to my "different personalities = different characters" point of view because life's events and how you preceive them form your personality or character [at least in my opinion] then it would follow that if your counterpart had life events that were completly different ,then his personality [character] would be completly different.

You believe that the words personalitiy and character are not connect.The way I see it the only way to really decribe a persons character is to explain his personalitiy for you.

Here is an exsample......

Character 1: Considered a Hero to many,Has put his life on the line to save others countless times.Had a brother and nepheew you that he cherished.Has two very close that he consideres brothers.Gained his rank by hard work and personal sacrefice.

Character 2: Considered one of Earths most evil tyrants.Hasnt been afraid to put others at risk for personal gain.Has conkered many worlds in his lust for power.Killed his brother and Nepheew in an experiment that was trying to find a way to cause a planets populance to go mad and kill them selfs.Has no friends at all.Gained his rank by killing all those above him in rank.

Sounds like two different characters wouldnt you say??

Both were James T.Kirk.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Now as to you family structure statement: What if your parents didnt have kids at the same time?There is a old question when it pretains to the Counter Part theroy as it effects Quatom phisic's [Spelling?]the question is "How can you be younger then you are right now?" The answer is that in a alternate universe your parents may have had you in a different time frame.And if that is the case then are you of that other time still you????These questions have been a staple of the feild for years with many different ideas on how to answer them.I have been looking for your point of view.

You can't that's the point. Even if your parrents DID meet in another universe, get married, and had kids that doesn't nessisarily mean you will still exsist. The time of conseption has to be the same in order to produce the same person. (hence my earlier comment about everyone in different universes having the same birthday as they do here.)

In another universe maybe your parrents got married a month or two earlier and insted of having you, your mother gave birth to entirely different baby same as if she married an entirely different person.

I still don't understand what you're saying.

The 17 year old who is a complete oppisite of his 7 year old self is one character but the 17 who is the same as his 7 year old self and different from his "wrong universe" self is a different character? This makes no sence to me. All 4 are the same person. The 2 7 year olds and the 2 17 year olds. The only difference is one 17 year old changed as he aged do to some tragic event which the other didn't witness and because of that never changed.

Just because they didn't didn't develop in that way doens't mean they wouldn't have. That is why it's called a "Mirror" universe. That other version of yourself is nothing more than your own reflection.

Now about Sisko, I can't really say any more about him without knowing more about the worm hole aliens. They are aliens after all. The Bajorins do worship them as Gods but that doesn't mean they are Gods. There are races who even think Q is a God but he is not. Q actully does not belive there is a God, no Q does. To belive in God is to belive in something greater than yourself and sence there is nothing greater than the Q there must not be a God.

I kind of belive the same thing to an exstent. People allways look to God for help and thank him for things which really was provided by themselfs. God's not doing anything yet your prayers get answered because you find the solution not because some all powerfull God came down and told you what to do.

I really think it's verry sad when people provide for themselfs but think some unknown entidy for doing it for them. Even something as simple as Thansgiving diner. Who gave you that feast? You say God, I say YOU provided it to yourself.

Did God give you money to buy food? No you have a job for that.

Did God manifest food in your kitchen? No you went out to the store and bought it.

Did God cook your food? No you spent hours slaveing over a hot stove to cook your own food.

Then what do you do? You than God for all the food you just bought, and cooked. You give yourself no credit for anything insted you give credit to this God fellow?

This is directed at anyone who has ever done this not to any single person. You really should give yourself more credit than you do.

If your going to thank God for your Thanksgiving dinner you might as well thank me while your at it, I didn't do anything either.

Saber Prime wrote:You can't that's the point. Even if your parrents DID meet in another universe, get married, and had kids that doesn't nessisarily mean you will still exsist. The time of conseption has to be the same in order to produce the same person. (hence my earlier comment about everyone in different universes having the same birthday as they do here.)
In another universe maybe your parrents got married a month or two earlier and insted of having you, your mother gave birth to entirely different baby same as if she married an entirely different person.

thats a limited point of view considering the complexaty of the female menstral cycle.A woman can become pregnet any time within a 3 to 5 week window of obulation.Let us say for the momment that your mother falls in the 5 week menstration time frame.It could be that this universe version of you was conseved on July 15th. but in an alternate universe you were consived on Augest 7th.The times of conseption would be different but why would you be a different person just because of that useing your theroy????

Also your theroy would seem to imply that life begins with the un-fertilized egg.Or if I mis-understood you that at least the un-fertalized egg is different in some way even with out its sperm doner [father].That doesnt jive with what established life science would expect to see from a couples first born child.
If both parents have a ressevie Blue eye gene then their first born child will have blue eyes regusrdless of when that child was consieved.Wether it was in 1980 or 1990.The same holds true for genetic illnesses.
I cant see how a different univrses couples child would differ to the degree that you have stated simply cause it was consived on a different date.

Saber Prime wrote:I still don't understand what you're saying.
The 17 year old who is a complete oppisite of his 7 year old self is one character but the 17 who is the same as his 7 year old self and different from his "wrong universe" self is a different character? This makes no sence to me. All 4 are the same person. The 2 7 year olds and the 2 17 year olds. The only difference is one 17 year old changed as he aged do to some tragic event which the other didn't witness and because of that never changed.

No what I was saying is a 7 y/o that loves school then grows to a 17 y/o that hates it is the same character.....its called character grouth trew lifes events.
But if were talking about two universes where one child grew up to be a hero and in the other the counterpart to that child grew up to be a mass murderer...I would say they were different characters.

Saber Prime wrote:Just because they didn't didn't develop in that way doens't mean they wouldn't have. That is why it's called a "Mirror" universe. That other version of yourself is nothing more than your own reflection.

Not sure what part this statemen pretains to...the star trek stuff of the 7 year old but you didnt give me your thoughts on how I described the two Kirks in my post.

Saber Prime wrote:Now about Sisko, I can't really say any more about him without knowing more about the worm hole aliens. They are aliens after all. The Bajorins do worship them as Gods but that doesn't mean they are Gods. There are races who even think Q is a God but he is not. Q actully does not belive there is a God, no Q does. To belive in God is to belive in something greater than yourself and sence there is nothing greater than the Q there must not be a God.

Well wether they are gods or aliens they werent envolved in Mirror Ben Sisko's birth.
And where are you basing your assesment of "Q" from.Is it from any episodes of Trek [cause I cant remember any where any member of the Q has made such a statement] or is it from the book your referring to.Because as I told you Star trek novels are not part of Star trek continuty.And besides in TNG episode "Taperstry" Q eludes to the fact that there is a God and that he knew him well.And then admits that he was joking about knowing him and that they only met once.Also in an episode of Voyager he makes refrance to the creater of all things Even the Q

Saber Prime wrote:isode}

Saber Prime wrote:I kind of belive the same thing to an exstent. People allways look to God for help and thank him for things which really was provided by themselfs. God's not doing anything yet your prayers get answered because you find the solution not because some all powerfull God came down and told you what to do.

I really think it's verry sad when people provide for themselfs but think some unknown entidy for doing it for them. Even something as simple as Thansgiving diner. Who gave you that feast? You say God, I say YOU provided it to yourself.

Did God give you money to buy food? No you have a job for that.

Did God manifest food in your kitchen? No you went out to the store and bought it.

Did God cook your food? No you spent hours slaveing over a hot stove to cook your own food.

Then what do you do? You than God for all the food you just bought, and cooked. You give yourself no credit for anything insted you give credit to this God fellow?

This is directed at anyone who has ever done this not to any single person. You really should give yourself more credit than you do.

If your going to thank God for your Thanksgiving dinner you might as well thank me while your at it, I didn't do anything either.

Thank you for Thanksgiving Dinner

Did it to me again.

Kirk: I have another example for you.

This man is a scientist on another planet. He's single, has no kids, and is married to his work.

This man is considered to be a hero on Earth. When he's not fighting crime he's either working as a Costodian at a local high schcool or spending time with his wife and 2 sons.

These men sound like different characters. Both are Mallardman.

His species evolved from Ducks simular to the ones on Earth. He was sent here to study them and ended up saveing a human woman's life from another alien who lives on his rival planet.

Sure they sound like different characters when I leave out all that detail about who he is but isn't that the same thing you just did with Kirk?

Conception birth:

I'll exsplain this the simplest way I can think of.

I have a brother who is 5 years older than me. His birthday is March 8, 1981, mine is March 6, 1986.

Lets say in another universe my parrents don't get married at the same time they did here. Insted they get married 5 years later. Because of this my older brother would have never been born. I on the other hand would still be concived and born March 6, 1986. In that universe I would be an only child however technically sence my brother still shares the same parrents and that version of me came to this dimention they would genetically still be brothers.

You seem to be thinking babies pop out in a certain order. By this way of thinking I would never be born and my brother would be born 5 years late in that dimention. This is not the case.

Either that or your thinking because they are the same parrents they must have the same children in which case all siblighs would be identicle clones of eachother.

No if the time in which the baby is concived/born is different than the same baby would not be born at all. I'd really rather not get any more technical than that because then we gotta start talking about the millions of sperm cells and eggs dropping, and all that stuff.

If your mother consived a baby and it was born on the same day as you but it was with a man who was not your father you would not exspect that baby to be you so why should the baby be you if it is from both your parrents but not on your birthday?

The baby born not on your birthday would techically be your brother or sister even if they don't exsist in your own world. Even a baby born with a man your mother never met in this world is still your half brother or sister.

Ultra Magnus is a soldier. And a care-taker leader. Like a proxy president, if you will.

But a panicky, short-of-wisdom kind of leader.

Just to throw my twopenneth in on the 'alternate you' issue:

If 'you' were conceived at a different time in an alternate universe (even by fractions of a second), odds are good that that alternate you isn't gonna be you at all. Never mind differences in upbringing, the fact is, it's most likely going to be a different sperm that creates that other baby. If it's a somewhat longer time between your conception and theirs, it'll be a different egg, too. So that alternate 'you' will actually be the brother or sister you don't have in this reality.

Which is kinda where the Star Trek 'mirror universe' falls down (like a lot of Star Trek science - remember our discussion on phasing out of synch a la the BW comic?). Because the implication is that the mirror universe of DS9 is the same mirror universe of TOS. But since it's extremely unlikely that everyone (or indeed anyone) who turns up in DS9 is conceived at exactly the same time in this alternate universe, then it's extremely unlikely that anyone from our DS9 will even exist in that particular universe.

For a version of you to exist in an AU, it's gonna be pretty much a prerequisite that whatever happens to separate your universe from the AU will have to have occurred at least after your conception.

Saber Prime wrote:Did it to me again.

Kirk: I have another example for you.

This man is a scientist on another planet. He's single, has no kids, and is married to his work.

This man is considered to be a hero on Earth. When he's not fighting crime he's either working as a Costodian at a local high schcool or spending time with his wife and 2 sons.

These men sound like different characters. Both are Mallardman.

I've never heard of this guy but it sounds like all you did was describe to asspects of one character.Much like describing Superman and clark Kent seperatly.Thats completly different then the two Kirks I mention because some of the actions of one can not be atributed to the other.

Saber Prime wrote:His species evolved from Ducks simular to the ones on Earth. He was sent here to study them and ended up saveing a human woman's life from another alien who lives on his rival planet.

Is this Howard the Duck....or is it connected to the Mallardman?????

Saber Prime wrote:Sure they sound like different characters when I leave out all that detail about who he is but isn't that the same thing you just did with Kirk?

The only thing I left out with Kirk was his name.

Saber Prime wrote:Conception birth:

I'll exsplain this the simplest way I can think of.

I have a brother who is 5 years older than me. His birthday is March 8, 1981, mine is March 6, 1986.

Lets say in another universe my parrents don't get married at the same time they did here. Insted they get married 5 years later. Because of this my older brother would have never been born. I on the other hand would still be concived and born March 6, 1986. In that universe I would be an only child however technically sence my brother still shares the same parrents and that version of me came to this dimention they would genetically still be brothers.

With all of this I agree....The reason I questioned you was to try to understand your over all reasons for believing that counterparts could be the same character simply based on time of conseption.

Saber Prime wrote:You seem to be thinking babies pop out in a certain order. By this way of thinking I would never be born and my brother would be born 5 years late in that dimention. This is not the case.
Either that or your thinking because they are the same parrents they must have the same children in which case all siblighs would be identicle clones of eachother.

By no means am I thinking ether.I'm just trying to understand your reasons for believing that counterparts are the same because of them having the same birth date.This line of questioning was the only way I could think of that may have made me understand your way of thinking.I see having the same birth date as being as insequencial to having the same parents when trying to determin if counterparts are the same character.
The only way I could consive that your theroy is right is if you your self were the tree that the other universe branched off from.Then you would be the same character in both universes.But if it was your grandfather that was the tree that the universes branched off from I would see both versions of your father and you ,even if you were all born on the same dates, as different characters and as genitic brothers.

Saber Prime wrote:No if the time in which the baby is concived/born is different than the same baby would not be born at all. I'd really rather not get any more technical than that because then we gotta start talking about the millions of sperm cells and eggs dropping, and all that stuff.

Good cause I got a headack already

Saber Prime wrote:If your mother consived a baby and it was born on the same day as you but it was with a man who was not your father you would not exspect that baby to be you so why should the baby be you if it is from both your parrents but not on your birthday?

Never thought so....look at why I asked you this line of questioning above.

Saber Prime wrote:The baby born not on your birthday would techically be your brother or sister even if they don't exsist in your own world. Even a baby born with a man your mother never met in this world is still your half brother or sister.

As would be the case if it were not you that the universe split from.If the universe split 10 years before you were born and by some amazing universal qurik you were still born in both universes on the same birth date you would be genitic brothers not the same character.

Ramrider wrote:Just to throw my twopenneth in on the 'alternate you' issue:

If 'you' were conceived at a different time in an alternate universe (even by fractions of a second), odds are good that that alternate you isn't gonna be you at all. Never mind differences in upbringing, the fact is, it's most likely going to be a different sperm that creates that other baby. If it's a somewhat longer time between your conception and theirs, it'll be a different egg, too. So that alternate 'you' will actually be the brother or sister you don't have in this reality.

Thats been my point that a birth date can not be the desiding factor in determining wether your the same character as your counterpart or not.To many differences can be made in even a fractions of a second to how you as a fetus is devoloped.

Ramrider wrote:Which is kinda where the Star Trek 'mirror universe' falls down (like a lot of Star Trek science - remember our discussion on phasing out of synch a la the BW comic?). Because the implication is that the mirror universe of DS9 is the same mirror universe of TOS. But since it's extremely unlikely that everyone (or indeed anyone) who turns up in DS9 is conceived at exactly the same time in this alternate universe, then it's extremely unlikely that anyone from our DS9 will even exist in that particular universe.

The same argument holds for TOS mirror universe characters....the differences in their history must have taken place at least 200 years before any of those characters were born.....and yet they still were.....pushing the issue further into the relm of the imposable were the introduction of DS9's characters into the Mirror universe, an other 150 years go by and still counterparts of mainstream universe characters were being born.Well at least with DS9 they made one fundamental change to the Mirror Universe....No Jake Sisko was ever born...and never will be cause both his parents are dead.

Ramrider wrote:For a version of you to exist in an AU, it's gonna be pretty much a prerequisite that whatever happens to separate your universe from the AU will have to have occurred at least after your conception.

Or at least not to long before.