The Energon Pub

And by the way as far as I know...G1 toon wise...Besides Galvatron [who was the same character as Megatron] the only character to ever get a upgrade was Bumble Bee who was upgraded to Gold bug.Unless you consider the targetmasters added guns a upgrade.Scurge and Cyclonse arent upgraded characters of who ever they were made from....no matter how you see it.

i_amtrunks wrote:Basically he is the anti-Starscream.

Ever happy to follow someone else's orders, and he will follow them to the letter.

Add that to the fact he is a super soldier, and you have one pretty impressive warrior.

This comment should be entered into this site's hall of fame. I elect this statement as hall-of-fame gold.

Pure, Truth. Unadulterated. Just.. Prime!

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And by the way as far as I know...G1 toon wise...Besides Galvatron [who was the same character as Megatron] the only character to ever get a upgrade was Bumble Bee who was upgraded to Gold bug.Unless you consider the targetmasters added guns a upgrade.Scurge and Cyclonse arent upgraded characters of who ever they were made from....no matter how you see it.

Don't forget that Kup was upgraded into S**t-piece. Albeit, in name only.

I'm Ultra Magnus, and so is my wife.

Tekka wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And by the way as far as I know...G1 toon wise...Besides Galvatron [who was the same character as Megatron] the only character to ever get a upgrade was Bumble Bee who was upgraded to Gold bug.Unless you consider the targetmasters added guns a upgrade.Scurge and Cyclonse arent upgraded characters of who ever they were made from....no matter how you see it.

Don't forget that Kup was upgraded into S**t-piece. Albeit, in name only.

I was just watchin that vid

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And Galvatron only had a different voice actor then Megatron for the movie it self....and thats because it was believed that they needed some more "sifi star power" to bring in a larger audiance.Frank Welker who did the voice of Megatron [and so many others] voiced Galvatron trew out season 3 and the 3 part season 4.

I knew that allready but sence we were speaking of the movie voice actors at the time it didn't really matter who did what in the series.

In the movie Frank Welker was still doing Megatron's voice and Lenord Nimoy did Galvatron's. Frank did Megatron and Galvatron for the series but we weren't talking about the series, we were talking about the movie.

And by the way as far as I know...G1 toon wise...Besides Galvatron [who was the same character as Megatron] the only character to ever get a upgrade was Bumble Bee who was upgraded to Gold bug.Unless you consider the targetmasters added guns a upgrade.Scurge and Cyclonse arent upgraded characters of who ever they were made from....no matter how you see it.

Bumblebee and Goldbug, they're each one word not two.

Scourge and Cyclonus ARE upgrades of seekers and Insecticons. Just like Megatron being turned into Galvatron you can watch all of them being upgraded in the movie.

Now to answer your first question here's a list.

Orian Pax = Optimus Prime

Aireal = Elita One

A3 = Alpha Trion

and of course the one you mentioned...

Bumblebee = Goldbug

These are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that are confermed to be the same character. Non of them have the same endings on their names like you sugested with -atron and -imus Prime. Besides that you're allso sugesting that Optimus and Rodimus are the same character which they are not. Rodimus was Hot Rod.

BumbleScream84 wrote:I was hoping someone could help me shed some light on who Ultra Magnus is, by that I mean his persona. I just can't seem to get a grasp on his character. Even after reading his Spotlight, I'm still not sure what makes him tick and what his motives are.

G1 = he's a soldier that helps in the fight anyway he can

RiD = he's Prime's brother who originally was jealous of Prime, but then got sissy after he became tolerant, which sucked because he was cool when he was a rebel.

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And by the way as far as I know...G1 toon wise...Besides Galvatron [who was the same character as Megatron] the only character to ever get a upgrade was Bumble Bee who was upgraded to Gold bug.Unless you consider the targetmasters added guns a upgrade.Scurge and Cyclonse arent upgraded characters of who ever they were made from....no matter how you see it.

Saber Prime wrote:Bumblebee and Goldbug, they're each one word not two..

I was tired.But I'm much better at quoting arient I?????????

Saber Prime wrote:Scourge and Cyclonus ARE upgrades of seekers and Insecticons. Just like Megatron being turned into Galvatron you can watch all of them being upgraded in the movie..

They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

Saber Prime wrote:Now to answer your first question here's a list.

Orian Pax = Optimus Prime

Aireal = Elita One

A3 = Alpha Trion

and of course the one you mentioned...

Bumblebee = Goldbug..

All the one's you mention are not really character upgrades.....their character downgrades.....or if you like retro-upgrades.The characters first apperances were in their so called upgraded form.

Optimus Prime downgraded to Orian Pax

Elita One downgraded to Aireal

Alpha Trion downgraded to A3

Goldbug and Galvatron are the only true upgraded TF's.

Saber Prime wrote:These are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that are confermed to be the same character. Non of them have the same endings on their names like you sugested with -atron and -imus Prime..

Again you seem to be missing key points in my post.I said that Hasbro/Marvel wanted to keep the names of the NEW LEADERS simular to that of the OLD LEADERS for THE MOVIE not the show.You would think since you keep pointing out to people that your only talking about the movie that you would have picked up on this

Saber Prime wrote: Besides that you're allso sugesting that Optimus and Rodimus are the same character which they are not. Rodimus was Hot Rod.

Where the hell did you get that from........I didnt say that.Maybe you miss-understood what I was saying

ThunderThruster wrote:
oh, he put grimlock down, and into repair bay, if DW is to be believed!

Whoa I was talkin about back in DW, but, DAMN WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN AND WHAT ISSUE ?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

True. Those were dead - really dead. And if you all noticed they seem much more loyal to Unicron than Galvatron did. Galvatron was still pretty much Megs, but by the end of the series he had lost his mind and was never quite the same.
Optimus Prime from Orion Pax. Funny thing I noticed that in the Return of Optimus Prime - no one called him Orion. He LOOKED COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Optimus, but in the Dreamwave comics, Optronix as he was called, still bore a resemblence to his future Prime upgrade.

trence5 wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

True. Those were dead - really dead. And if you all noticed they seem much more loyal to Unicron than Galvatron did. Galvatron was still pretty much Megs, but by the end of the series he had lost his mind and was never quite the same.
Optimus Prime from Orion Pax. Funny thing I noticed that in the Return of Optimus Prime - no one called him Orion. He LOOKED COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Optimus, but in the Dreamwave comics, Optronix as he was called, still bore a resemblence to his future Prime upgrade.

I'm not sure what you mean. In what way did he look different in "The Return of Optimus Prime"?

Hot Rod becoming Rodimus Prime is a character upgrade akin to Megatron / Galvatron and Bumblebee / Goldbug.

trence5 wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

True. Those were dead - really dead. And if you all noticed they seem much more loyal to Unicron than Galvatron did. Galvatron was still pretty much Megs, but by the end of the series he had lost his mind and was never quite the same.
Optimus Prime from Orion Pax. Funny thing I noticed that in the Return of Optimus Prime - no one called him Orion. He LOOKED COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Optimus, but in the Dreamwave comics, Optronix as he was called, still bore a resemblence to his future Prime upgrade.

Do you mind if I ask you in what Part of "The Return of Optimus Prime" are you talking about?

Leonardo wrote:
Hot Rod becoming Rodimus Prime is a character upgrade akin to Megatron / Galvatron and Bumblebee / Goldbug.

True....I dont know how I forgot to mention him....must be the meds or I just got caught up on the Magnus thing.

Ok sorry about the confusion. In the toon canon, before he was a Prime, Optimus was an autobot named Orion Pax, becoming Optimus Prime only after surviving an ambush by Megatron and he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion.
He looked completely different when he was Orion Pax. And I was referring to when the reactivated him, he didn't have the Matrix of Leadership - Rodimus Prime still had it but he was infected by the aggression plague. They still called him Optimus Prime, I guess because most didn't generally know him when he was Orion (I'm just speculating now).
When Rodimus lost it in the episode "Burden Hardest to Bare" they called him Hot Rod again.


Oh snap my bad. What I meant was Orion Pax looked very different from Optimus. Sorry about that.

Um, they called him Optimus Prime because that was his name. Doesn't matter if he's got the Matrix or not, that's his name. Ariel got a new name as well, and I don't recall any suggestion that she was given the Matrix of Pinkness or anything.

trence5 wrote:Ok sorry about the confusion. In the toon canon, before he was a Prime, Optimus was an autobot named Orion Pax, becoming Optimus Prime only after surviving an ambush by Megatron and he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion.
He looked completely different when he was Orion Pax. And I was referring to when the reactivated him, he didn't have the Matrix of Leadership - Rodimus Prime still had it but he was infected by the aggression plague. They still called him Optimus Prime, I guess because most didn't generally know him when he was Orion (I'm just speculating now).
When Rodimus lost it in the episode "Burden Hardest to Bare" they called him Hot Rod again.




Oh snap my bad. What I meant was Orion Pax looked very different from Optimus. Sorry about that.

Maybe I still dont understan what your sayin but ......When was the last time you saw "The return of Optimus Prime".When they reactivated him he still looked like Optimus Prime..he did not revert to Orion Pax like Rodimus Prime did in the "Burden hardest to bear or in "Dark awakening"......in both Rodimus Prime reverted to his smaler form of Hot Rod.Also in the G1 toon theres no reason to believe that it was the Matrix that changed Orion Pax into Optimus Prime.Alpha Trion rebuilt him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR337nQnYxs

Sledge wrote:Um, they called him Optimus Prime because that was his name. Doesn't matter if he's got the Matrix or not, that's his name. Ariel got a new name as well, and I don't recall any suggestion that she was given the Matrix of Pinkness or anything.

Well she was givin the Univeral remote contron Matrix Remember how she put all of time on pause

Well, D'UH! Women always get the final say on the remote control.

trence5 wrote:

ThunderThruster wrote:
oh, he put grimlock down, and into repair bay, if DW is to be believed!

Whoa I was talkin about back in DW, but, DAMN WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN AND WHAT ISSUE ?

its in the 'War and Peace' Volume 2, issue 4. all you see is a reflection of 1 of magnus missles and then grimlock looking up at magnus before he goes into stasis lock!

All the one's you mention are not really character upgrades.....their character downgrades.....or if you like retro-upgrades.The characters first apperances were in their so called upgraded form.

Optimus Prime downgraded to Orian Pax

Elita One downgraded to Aireal

Alpha Trion downgraded to A3

Goldbug and Galvatron are the only true upgraded TF's.

No one was downgraded. Where did you get this idea from?

You're looking at events that happen backwards. Orian Pax, Aireal, and A3 were all their original forms. They did not get downgraded into thoughs forms the episodes you see them as thoughs characters were each set in the past BEFORE they were upgraded.

A downgrade would be rather than the Airealbots being transported to the past they stayed in their own time and Optimus just got turned into Orian Pax. But we all know that's not what happen.

Optimus did not turn into Orian, Orian turned into Optimus so it is an upgrade.

Rodimus/Hot Rod is the only character to ever be downgraded because he can only be Rodimus when he has the Matrix. No Matrix and he turns back into Hot Rod.

They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

See now this is the same argument I'm use to hearing with Galvatron as well. That's where the "speculation" comes in. You can belive that if you wish but it is not a fact.

After all Tankor and Rhinox are the same character but their personalitys are nothing alike so why should any of Unicron's upgraded Decepticons be any different? Just because their personalitys are different doesn't mean they are different characters.

Where the hell did you get that from........I didnt say that.Maybe you miss-understood what I was saying

Maybe, I hadn't had much sleep when I was reading that post... or right now for that matter.

All the one's you mention are not really character upgrades.....their character downgrades.....or if you like retro-upgrades.The characters first apperances were in their so called upgraded form.

Optimus Prime downgraded to Orian Pax

Elita One downgraded to Aireal

Alpha Trion downgraded to A3

Goldbug and Galvatron are the only true upgraded TF's.

Saber Prime wrote:
No one was downgraded. Where did you get this idea from?

You're looking at events that happen backwards. Orian Pax, Aireal, and A3 were all their original forms. They did not get downgraded into thoughs forms the episodes you see them as thoughs characters were each set in the past BEFORE they were upgraded.

A downgrade would be rather than the Airealbots being transported to the past they stayed in their own time and Optimus just got turned into Orian Pax. But we all know that's not what happen.

Optimus did not turn into Orian, Orian turned into Optimus so it is an upgrade.

Rodimus/Hot Rod is the only character to ever be downgraded because he can only be Rodimus when he has the Matrix. No Matrix and he turns back into Hot Rod..

You keep missing key points in my post....but I should have been more descriptive in just what I was saying.I was trying to point out that the character ,not the body of the character ,was downgraded for those episode's.It was needed for the stories they were telling.We knew the characters first as Optimus Prime ,Elita 1 and Alphatrion,those stories downgraded the characters for the purpose of telling a story set in the past.

They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

Saber Prime wrote: See now this is the same argument I'm use to hearing with Galvatron as well. That's where the "speculation" comes in. You can belive that if you wish but it is not a fact..

Your right it cant be proven as fact...but nether can your point of view.On the other hand there is circumstantional evidence to suport my theory.First and for most the script had in writting the Scorge and Cyclous were mad from the remains od dead Decepticons[ The dead have no character ]The Marvel character bios made the same claim and there is a before movie production story board aritist rendering of the scene where they were created and Unicron bulds them from mixed floating parts from the different seekers and Insecticons....not from any one whole body.And the Megatron was alive so for him I would say its a upgrade.

Saber Prime wrote:
After all Tankor and Rhinox are the same character but their personalitys are nothing alike so why should any of Unicron's upgraded Decepticons be any different? Just because their personalitys are different doesn't mean they are different characters..

You've brought up a interesting point here.....It made me think a sec but there is a difference.......his program was over written it would be like if someone brain washed you into thinking you were Dick Chaney.......you would still be the same person but wouldnt know it.And I gues you can say that maybe Unicron brain washed those he changed but I dont believe you can brain wash the dead.
Let me give you one to think on....You have said before that your a bit of a Star Trek fan......there was a episode of The Next Generation that we learn that Riker was cloned by a transporter malfunction some time in the past.Would you call that transporter clone the same character?????The clone was made from Riker much like Scourge and Cyclonus were made from the floating Decepticons.

Where the hell did you get that from........I didnt say that.Maybe you miss-understood what I was saying

Saber Prime wrote: Maybe, I hadn't had much sleep when I was reading that post... or right now for that matter.

Dont worry about it.I was sleepy too.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

All the one's you mention are not really character upgrades.....their character downgrades.....or if you like retro-upgrades.The characters first apperances were in their so called upgraded form.

Optimus Prime downgraded to Orian Pax

Elita One downgraded to Aireal

Alpha Trion downgraded to A3

Goldbug and Galvatron are the only true upgraded TF's.

Saber Prime wrote:
No one was downgraded. Where did you get this idea from?

You're looking at events that happen backwards. Orian Pax, Aireal, and A3 were all their original forms. They did not get downgraded into thoughs forms the episodes you see them as thoughs characters were each set in the past BEFORE they were upgraded.

A downgrade would be rather than the Airealbots being transported to the past they stayed in their own time and Optimus just got turned into Orian Pax. But we all know that's not what happen.

Optimus did not turn into Orian, Orian turned into Optimus so it is an upgrade.

Rodimus/Hot Rod is the only character to ever be downgraded because he can only be Rodimus when he has the Matrix. No Matrix and he turns back into Hot Rod..

You keep missing key points in my post....but I should have been more descriptive in just what I was saying.I was trying to point out that the character ,not the body of the character ,was downgraded for those episode's.It was needed for the stories they were telling.We knew the characters first as Optimus Prime ,Elita 1 and Alphatrion,those stories downgraded the characters for the purpose of telling a story set in the past.

They were upgraded from their bodys but not from their characters.As I said in my first post they are not the same characters.They show absolootly no simularaties to the characters of the seekers or insecticons.They are new characters with new personalties.

Saber Prime wrote: See now this is the same argument I'm use to hearing with Galvatron as well. That's where the "speculation" comes in. You can belive that if you wish but it is not a fact..

Your right it cant be proven as fact...but nether can your point of view.On the other hand there is circumstantional evidence to suport my theory.First and for most the script had in writting the Scorge and Cyclous were mad from the remains od dead Decepticons[ The dead have no character ]The Marvel character bios made the same claim and there is a before movie production story board aritist rendering of the scene where they were created and Unicron bulds them from mixed floating parts from the different seekers and Insecticons....not from any one whole body.And the Megatron was alive so for him I would say its a upgrade.

Saber Prime wrote:
After all Tankor and Rhinox are the same character but their personalitys are nothing alike so why should any of Unicron's upgraded Decepticons be any different? Just because their personalitys are different doesn't mean they are different characters..

You've brought up a interesting point here.....It made me think a sec but there is a difference.......his program was over written it would be like if someone brain washed you into thinking you were Dick Chaney.......you would still be the same person but wouldnt know it.And I gues you can say that maybe Unicron brain washed those he changed but I dont believe you can brain wash the dead.
Let me give you one to think on....You have said before that your a bit of a Star Trek fan......there was a episode of The Next Generation that we learn that Riker was cloned by a transporter malfunction some time in the past.Would you call that transporter clone the same character?????The clone was made from Riker much like Scourge and Cyclonus were made from the floating Decepticons.

Where the hell did you get that from........I didnt say that.Maybe you miss-understood what I was saying

Saber Prime wrote: Maybe, I hadn't had much sleep when I was reading that post... or right now for that matter.

Dont worry about it.I was sleepy too.

OK You brought up some interesting points here, ones I don't nessisarily agree with but I think for the first time someone has actully exsplained this in a way that makes sence to me.

I still belive the seekers and the Insecticons were upgraded and were just dieing like Megatron but it could easily be belived thath they were all dead at the time and just used for parts.

Now about the downgrade thing. It doesn't really matter that we see Optimus Prime first, that's still not a downgrade BEACAUSE it's set in the past before Optimus ever exsisted. If we had seen Orian Pax first and Optimus turned back into him that would be a downgrade.

Riker and... can't remember his name (I do belive his clone took a different name) are not the same character, they lead two complatly different lives (from the point of the accident onward) there's a big difference between 1 character getting an upgrade into a new body and getting cloned. Picard and Licutis (spelling?) are the same character but not Riker and his clone.

Saber Prime wrote:
OK You brought up some interesting points here, ones I don't nessisarily agree with but I think for the first time someone has actully exsplained this in a way that makes sence to me.

I still belive the seekers and the Insecticons were upgraded and were just dieing like Megatron but it could easily be belived thath they were all dead at the time and just used for parts..

Glad I could help...or at least give you reason to look at it in a new way Even if you dont agree.

Saber Prime wrote:Now about the downgrade thing. It doesn't really matter that we see Optimus Prime first, that's still not a downgrade BEACAUSE it's set in the past before Optimus ever exsisted. If we had seen Orian Pax first and Optimus turned back into him that would be a downgrade..

Its just a technical way of looking at it.......since we were talking about characters that we saw getting upgraded.I would assume that almost all the G1 TF's were upgrade from a non combat capable robot mode much like we say with Prime and Elita.....and I'm not trying to sugest that Prime turned back to Orion when I say character downgrade, but technically what we see is a retro-downgrade character wise to fit the plot of those stories.I'm not sugesting thats its a technical downgrade.....but I would measure a upgrade by wether or not we see a character evolve from his first apperance to his more powerfull or newer body.

Saber Prime wrote:Riker and... can't remember his name (I do belive his clone took a different name) are not the same character, they lead two complatly different lives (from the point of the accident onward) there's a big difference between 1 character getting an upgrade into a new body and getting cloned. Picard and Licutis (spelling?) are the same character but not Riker and his clone.

Tom was the clone's name...he went with his middle name.The reason I even brought this up was the clone was made from a duplicate transporter beem that held Riker's patern...in a sence a DNA sample........the way I see it it not that different from Unicron taking parts of the dead cons and making new characters.

Gawd damn it, I hate that "No Post Mode Specified" bull, I just lost my entire post and I don't really feel like rewrighting it now.

I need some sleep. Two baby nephews, love them, but they don't let me sleep.

Saber Prime wrote:I still belive the seekers and the Insecticons were upgraded and were just dieing like Megatron but it could easily be belived thath they were all dead at the time and just used for parts.

In that case, cite me an instance where Cyclonus or Scourge acted like Thundercracker, Skywarp or one of the Insecticons. You can't. No matter how much some people wish otherwise, Skywarp and TC died in the movie. The Insecticons maybe survived, as we saw them after the new guys were made, so the Insecticons we saw reformatted may have been clones.

To be clear, I don't know if TC, 'Warp and the Insecticons were actually dead when Unicron reformatted them, but they ceased to exist as a result, so the point is pretty much irrelevant.

Sledge wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I still belive the seekers and the Insecticons were upgraded and were just dieing like Megatron but it could easily be belived thath they were all dead at the time and just used for parts.

In that case, cite me an instance where Cyclonus or Scourge acted like Thundercracker, Skywarp or one of the Insecticons. You can't. No matter how much some people wish otherwise, Skywarp and TC died in the movie. The Insecticons maybe survived, as we saw them after the new guys were made, so the Insecticons we saw reformatted may have been clones.

To be clear, I don't know if TC, 'Warp and the Insecticons were actually dead when Unicron reformatted them, but they ceased to exist as a result, so the point is pretty much irrelevant.

It's allready been said they had different personalities and I've allready said why that doesn't mean a damn thing.

As for the comment about the Insecticon clones... well check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCfxNiuIhbI