The Energon Pub

It seems that nearly every TF fan loves modern transformers but hates the originals, or vice versa. I don't have a problem with this. What I do have a problem with is the constant bickering between fans with opposing preferences. Does it always have to be unconditional love for one and endless hatred for the other? Why can't both be appreciated? Each had their ups and downs. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with people having different preferences, but does one really have to be so harsh on those who disagree?

I'm not a big blustrous fan of G1, but whenever it's brought up, I don't hate on it, I just ignor it and move on. There ae some G1 figures that I like and think are far supperiour to this day, while I think some movie designs leave G1 in a crippled mess in some ares. I love G1 Ultra Magnus. I Also Love Movieverse Bumblebee (to an extent, he is becoming annoying) But for someone to ask me wich is better, well, theres a list of pros and cons with each figure there, but neither of them outweighs the other in my eyes. I love them both whol heartedly. Thats why my G1 magnus Hauls my 2011 movie bumblebee proudly on my shelf, as a sign that the two CAN Co exist. I like RID Magnus MUCH More, but G1 magnus is two bots in one, and an awesome vehicle mode too, wich is were my love for him comes from. I love Scorpinok and mega Supreme and quite a few others a well. I also like Sideswipe and The wreakers too. It's just a thing. I like the oldies, but when you get down too it, some others here have difficulties "Getting with the times"
EDIT I Am a Fan of the G1 Cartoon though!

I don't see how most people have a problem with this. Yes, it's brought up in conversation by several people, but not to the extent where it's a dominant topic.

I think the HASBRO DOESN'T LOVE GEEWUN-thing has been effectively silenced by CHURUG as well.

I think only the really vocal people who can't afford to get into both modern and original figures are the only ones who claim that those things can't exist together.

It's just a means to feel better about what you can't get.

Of course, that's not true for everyone. Some people genuinely don't like one side or the other, but I find that the really nasty vocal people are the ones who are doing some kind of justification and the louder they say it, the more they believe it.

Counterpunch wrote:I think only the really vocal people who can't afford to get into both modern and original figures are the only ones who claim that those things can't exist together.

It's just a means to feel better about what you can't get.

Of course, that's not true for everyone. Some people genuinely don't like one side or the other, but I find that the really nasty vocal people are the ones who are doing some kind of justification and the louder they say it, the more they believe it.

I think a lot of this can simply be put down to human nature. Certain peoples personalities subconsciously translating their passion for something, into hatred of something else, whilst being completely ignorant of other peoples opinions.

I like to think that all Transformer continuities can co-exist happily together.

I never understood this either. I collect both G1 and Classics. I collect the two different lines for different reasons. G1 for nostalgia and Classics for the realistic updates to the characters.

This doesn't just count for G1 and Classics either. Lots of people hate on lines they don't collect. Everyone has their own tastes. Personally, I love seeing things that I don't collect in other people's collections. It keeps things interesting.

I am one of those that was brought up in G1, has all of the toys and loves them. I also love the new generation toys and really appreciates that Hasbro is trying to make the classic/generations as good as they have been making them.

G1 = nostalgia for a lot of collectors, a time in our lives when life was better and we did not have the worries of life that we do as adults.. Something we can look back on and let our imaginations roam to break the hectic daily routine.

Modern = Great springboard to bring in future and new TF fans into the wonderful world of transformers, and with such a great generations line, new collectors can be introduced to great "remakes" of classic characters that some of us grew up with and loved.

Critics feel they have to counterbalance their love for one line w/ an obsessive hatred for another. And shove it down everyone else's throats the whole time. It's one thing to express an opinion, it's another thing to get all preachy about them and that should be a key factor as to whether you listen to someone's opinion or not. Can people of all different opinions, interests, and tastes in Transformers co-exist? I believe so, as long as the critic preachers exercise a filter on their brain-to-mouth and show some respect.

Blackstreak wrote:Critics feel they have to counterbalance their love for one line w/ an obsessive hatred for another. And shove it down everyone else's throats the whole time. It's one thing to express an opinion, it's another thing to get all preachy about them and that should be a key factor as to whether you listen to someone's opinion or not. Can people of all different opinions, interests, and tastes in Transformers co-exist? I believe so, as long as the critic preachers exercise a filter on their brain-to-mouth and show some respect.

Yuuup.

From my stand point on this matter.

I started buying TF toys around late 1987. Their was no ebay & I had to go to toy conventions to find the older TF toys from 1984-1986.

Even back in 1987,I found the TF toys lacking in poseable joints,sculpt,size.

When hasbro started making super poseable transformers. I eventually got rid of all my 1980's Brick transformers.

For me a super posable TF robot toy just seems more alive & real. as I can pose the robot mode in different poses.

For me it's not a money issue. I don't mind spending decent money as long as i'm getting my money's worth.

I'm not a fan of buying quanity. I prefer to buy less & focus on quality.

I'm proably going to be spending a lot of money next year in 2012 on various 3rd party TF toys. like hexatron,CHMS G-1 Ultra magnus,I-Gear horror monarh leader smaller scale MP Megatron. 5 G-1 dinobots that combine to form a gestalt.

If the generations 2012 TF toy line makes any new mold super poseable G-1 Persona deluxe or voyager or ultra toys then I'll buy most of them.

I don't see the reason they cannot coexist. I have a deep nostalgic love for the G1 stuff and an equally deep appreciation for the modern revisions of the classics. As much as I adore G1 Sideswipe, the first Transformer I ever owned, I love that the Generations version is pretty close to the cartoon version. While I find myself in awe of the mechanics of modern Transformers, there's a beauty in the simplicity of the old-school transformations.

Did anyone say Stop liking what I don't like?
Because that's probably the core of the argument. Persons A and B don't like the same exact thing, and for whatever reasons you want to ascribe are incapable of accepting that their opinion is not the end all of popular opinion. Throw in crying and screaming and pseudo-insults like neckbeard and voila! instant fandom.
Seriously though, that's the cribnotes of it. Someone doesn't like your favoritest thing and the 'logical' response is just to cry about it. You'd think that if (some of us) are grown adults we'd be able to deal with things like this, but we aren't. Forgive me for mixing things here, but it's a lot like the current political state of 'dialogue' in the US. If you don't believe in A, it obviously means you are a socialist/religious/climate change/corporate/wellfare state nutjob rather than just some one who has a different opinion. "What??? You don't think the Bayverse/G1 is the best thing ever?? Moron!" And then each side tries to pretend like they're right or righteous for their opinion and is attacked by the other. And the best part is is that we're all guilty of doing, each one of us.

I love you, fandom.

A lot have hit the nail on the head with some statements, but I didn't read far enough to see if anyone had gotten to this one. I think a lot has to do with what I call Dogmatic Response. Dogmatic Response is when you learn to look at something a certain way and believe it to be the "one true way." For example, if what you're mostly familiar with are modern Transformers then looking back to the originals can be a serious disappointment. It can even blind people to what the good of the older line can have. I think it comes down to people being set in ways and not wanting to change. You can also see this in critic reviews of movies. Critics are taught a certain way that movies "should be made" and will trash anything and everything that doesn't fit with that perspective.

knightedfeline wrote:A lot have hit the nail on the head with some statements, but I didn't read far enough to see if anyone had gotten to this one. I think a lot has to do with what I call Dogmatic Response. Dogmatic Response is when you learn to look at something a certain way and believe it to be the "one true way." For example, if what you're mostly familiar with are modern Transformers then looking back to the originals can be a serious disappointment. It can even blind people to what the good of the older line can have. I think it comes down to people being set in ways and not wanting to change. You can also see this in critic reviews of movies. Critics are taught a certain way that movies "should be made" and will trash anything and everything that doesn't fit with that perspective.

This is also a VERY valid point, welcome BTW

BeastProwl Thank you for the welcome.

knightedfeline wrote:BeastProwl Thank you for the welcome.

yeah, well I remember when I first got here, no one welcomed me, so I try to welcome as many newcomers as possible.

It does help to make friends. I've tried to make them on DA, but it's a lot harder.

Opening post of this thread:
The tl;dr version:

Skywarp64 wrote:""Why fanboys are a bunch of douche?""

The fanboys are always the most vocal. They love White so much that the'll find Black as an unforgivable sin. Or vice versa. So, they are VERY vocals and will climb on every soap box available to shout their own narrow-sighted point of view.

Meanwhile the one who both love White AND Black, the Grey lovers (any shades) are usually mature enough to not enter pointless debates between fanboys. Because they know it is pointless and a fanboy state of mind is unmovable and unchanging. So, the Gray lovers remain silent.

And the ones who remain silent are, by the rule, the magority.

Oh, and just in case you haven't noticed, I'm usually in the Gray for so many things. I like Classics and Bayformers equally, but I do prefer when there's an interesting mix going on. Like for RtS Voyager Lugnut, HftD Voyager Seaspray, or RotF Voyager Bludgeon. I love Movie Starscream and Classic Starscream, same thing with optimus Prime. I don't really like the classics who are too "square" looking or the Bayformers who change into a big pile of nothing like The Fallen, Shockwave, Ravage, and the non-DOTM Megatrons.

Oh, and just for the hell of it, I own both a 360 and a PS3. But I prefer the 360 out of the two. And I don't own a Wii because the Wii suck. Well, not really. I don't have a Wii because there's not much games that interest me on that console anyway and there's too much TF to buy AND I don't play much vidya anyway. Too busy posting pointless comments on random forums!

in every franchise you will have a tonne of people who are so in love with whatever part of the franchise they first fell in love with that they want to make sure that everyone knows it. it's like the two star wars trilogies. you are still an original star wars fan if you like the new versions, you just have to accept that even if it goes by the same title, it is something completely different -- for star wars, the first were fantasy, adventure, in a style of 'i've seen that before', it's familiar, it's rough and a little dirty, and then the second set is all spectacle with the colour and the costumes and the star trek shininess and cleanliness and the extravagant special effects. it's a different story, told in a different way, just built off of an old set of plot points. transformers is the same, michael bay's movies are all about the spectacle, which we all love if we are any part of modern society (definitely those of us who use teh internets and use forums )

i just love that with transformers, the 'original' is a set of toys, that had a storyline thrown together to help with marketing. did the first animated series ruin the toys? of course not that's silly. it just has so many branches, they all have their considerable differences, they're just based on the same premise, which was only invented to sell a few pieces of plastic (don't get so defensive, take the context here -- the story gave the plastic significance, then popularity, then a whole franchise)

Which "Modern" TFs are you referring to? I collect almost every line, except one: Movieverse. Most of them look like unpainted wires cobbled together in random order.

I think that there is no reason that all toy lines should not be known as "equal"
even though, IMHO, most the g1 toys were bad(when you break it down and look at them as toys)
and the movieverse toys are sometimes bad aswell(ie not having a real vehicle mode Mr. Fallen-over)
I'll even admit that a fair part of Armada was rubbish, even though I'll still defend it...


Basically: Every toy line has it's goods and bads, but that doesn't make it any less of a good toyline.
If that makes any sense at all...

In my opinion, the reason they cant co-exist stems from how both were viewed and valued at their original debut.


Let me clarify.

G1, isn't a museum piece. G1 are war horses. A G1 set of constructicons have sand and scuff marks all over their tracks. They are faded where you left them out. They have broken arms or legs to which you've made an excuse to how it fits into whatever is going on in your head for that battle on that day after school. If you have those things mint and pristine, you didn't get to have the fun they were intended for. They were meant for mud. They were meant to be stepped on and sweared at. To me, that was G1, and nothing AFA graded behind glass will ever replicate those feelings of nostalgia.

However, the modern ones?

Those babies are museum pieces. They are carefully handled. Kept out of sunlight. Pictures are taken and compared. This is the show floor model and it doesn't go off road. I love the robots in a different way now. That isn't to say better or worse, just different. I will say this though, even having nearly completed my modern set, it will never outweigh the fun I had with five childhood junkers. The fun was always upstairs, the plastic was just a conduit.

^good way to put it, i like that

bionic_radical wrote:In my opinion, the reason they cant co-exist stems from how both were viewed and valued at their original debut.


Let me clarify.

G1, isn't a museum piece. G1 are war horses. A G1 set of constructicons have sand and scuff marks all over their tracks. They are faded where you left them out. They have broken arms or legs to which you've made an excuse to how it fits into whatever is going on in your head for that battle on that day after school. If you have those things mint and pristine, you didn't get to have the fun they were intended for. They were meant for mud. They were meant to be stepped on and sweared at. To me, that was G1, and nothing AFA graded behind glass will ever replicate those feelings of nostalgia.

However, the modern ones?

Those babies are museum pieces. They are carefully handled. Kept out of sunlight. Pictures are taken and compared. This is the show floor model and it doesn't go off road. I love the robots in a different way now. That isn't to say better or worse, just different. I will say this though, even having nearly completed my modern set, it will never outweigh the fun I had with five childhood junkers. The fun was always upstairs, the plastic was just a conduit.

bionic_radical wrote: (What he said)