The Energon Pub

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:48 am

Counterpunch wrote:First Gen:

It's ironic that here I am, arguing about how similar the Takara and Hasbro lines have been the past few years, and the news pops up today stating that Takara Movie Leader Class Prime will have die-cast...

so, feel free to laugh in my general direction

(unless of course it isn't true or the US release does as well. )

Punch,

I'd never laugh at you. I think my problem is I've been unfortunate when it comes to buying TF's in my lifetime. Hasbro does have good stuff. I completely understand the reasons behind "safer" toys.

I just think Die Cast is nicer, but if you can get it done in a nice hard plastic mold, then great. This all stems from poorly made TF's I've bought over the years. Then again, I never was good at spotting KO's, so maybe i was just stupid buying cheap versions.

by **Ultra Convoy** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:23 am

If you look at the various timelines I can point out some Autobot and Decepticons Commanders\Leaders that are not decendents of Op. Prime and Megatron. True there are timelines that does have Megs and Prime as commanders/leaders at one point.

Autobots Various Commanders Timelines in some order

Alpha Trion (Gen One Animated Series)
Grimlock (Marvel Gen One comic)
Ultra Magus (temp commander during the Animated Movie)
Rodiums Prime AKA Rodiums Convoy or Hot Rodiums
Fort Max (Takara Headmasters and Marvel Gen One comic)
Cloudburst (Takara Masterforce Series)
God/Super Ginrai (Takara Masterforce looks like Prime but it is NOT PRIME)
Victory Leo (rebulit of Ginrai Masterforce)
Star Saber (Victory Look like Prime, BUT IT IS NOT)
Dai Atlas (Zone OVA)
BW Optimus Primal ( not a decendent of Gen One Prime not counting the upgrade Optimal)

Decepticons commanders various timelines
Shockwave (Marvel Gen One Comic. Gen One anamated series ?)
Bludgeon (Marvel Gen One Comic)
Starscream (for 30 seconds in the Animated Movie)
Devil Z\BlackZarak (Decepticon "God" Masterforce)
Scorponok AKA Mega Zarak (Takara Headmasters)
Violenjiger (Zone OVA)
BW/BM Megatron
Galvatron (BW II and Neo NOT A DECENDENT OF GEN ONE GALVATRON)
Magmatron (BW Neo)

Any more addtions?

Like Exulted Unicron on Facebook · by **Exulted Unicron** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:30 am

Ultra Convoy wrote:If you look at the various timelines I can point out some Autobot and Decepticons Commanders\Leaders that are not decendents of Op. Prime and Megatron. True there are timelines that does have Megs and Prime as commanders/leaders at one point.

Autobots Various Commanders Timelines in some order

Alpha Trion (Gen One Animated Series)
Grimlock (Marvel Gen One comic)
Ultra Magus (temp commander during the Animated Movie)
Rodiums Prime AKA Rodiums Convoy or Hot Rodiums
Fort Max (Takara Headmasters and Marvel Gen One comic)
Cloudburst (Takara Masterforce Series)
God/Super Ginrai (Takara Masterforce looks like Prime but it is NOT PRIME)
Victory Leo (rebulit of Ginrai Masterforce)
Star Saber (Victory Look like Prime, BUT IT IS NOT)
Dai Atlas (Zone OVA)
BW Optimus Primal ( not a decendent of Gen One Prime not counting the upgrade Optimal)

Decepticons commanders various timelines
Shockwave (Marvel Gen One Comic. Gen One anamated series ?)
Bludgeon (Marvel Gen One Comic)
Starscream (for 30 seconds in the Animated Movie)
Devil Z\BlackZarak (Decepticon "God" Masterforce)
Scorponok AKA Mega Zarak (Takara Headmasters)
Violenjiger (Zone OVA)
BW/BM Megatron
Galvatron (BW II and Neo NOT A DECENDENT OF GEN ONE GALVATRON)
Magmatron (BW Neo)

Any more addtions?

You mean Metalhawk for Masterforce. Cloudburst didn't seem to have command.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:39 am

Ultra Convoy wrote:If you look at the various timelines I can point out some Autobot and Decepticons Commanders\Leaders that are not decendents of Op. Prime and Megatron. True there are timelines that does have Megs and Prime as commanders/leaders at one point.

Autobots Various Commanders Timelines in some order

Alpha Trion (Gen One Animated Series)
Grimlock (Marvel Gen One comic)
Ultra Magus (temp commander during the Animated Movie)
Rodiums Prime AKA Rodiums Convoy or Hot Rodiums
Fort Max (Takara Headmasters and Marvel Gen One comic)
Cloudburst (Takara Masterforce Series)
God/Super Ginrai (Takara Masterforce looks like Prime but it is NOT PRIME)
Victory Leo (rebulit of Ginrai Masterforce)
Star Saber (Victory Look like Prime, BUT IT IS NOT)
Dai Atlas (Zone OVA)
BW Optimus Primal ( not a decendent of Gen One Prime not counting the upgrade Optimal)

Decepticons commanders various timelines
Shockwave (Marvel Gen One Comic. Gen One anamated series ?)
Bludgeon (Marvel Gen One Comic)
Starscream (for 30 seconds in the Animated Movie)
Devil Z\BlackZarak (Decepticon "God" Masterforce)
Scorponok AKA Mega Zarak (Takara Headmasters)
Violenjiger (Zone OVA)
BW/BM Megatron
Galvatron (BW II and Neo NOT A DECENDENT OF GEN ONE GALVATRON)
Magmatron (BW Neo)

Any more addtions?

Everything you said is true, but I think Skywarps talking about staying with the same character base (ie name, rank, conflict) and not really deviating from it.

I'd like to see a revamp toon that goes back to the beginnings of Senitinal Primes era or something like that. The birth of Orion Pax, Creation of Vector Sigma. Just thoughts.

News Credits: 2 · by **Head Shot** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:15 am

Okay I'm not reading through all that, but heres my reasoning

1. They tried killing off prime and megatron, to introduce new characters. THIS FAILED HORRIBLY and the blacklash it caused forced Hasbro and Takara to put Prime back in, and make Galvatron more like Megatron (hence why he goes alittle bit crazy, plus ontop of that Frank Welker started doing the voice for him again after the movie). This backlash was so bad, it actually costed Hasbro the series here in America, ebcause shortly afterward, the series ended just when headmasters was starting. This is why you won't see them attempt this again, because history can and ultimately will repeat itself at some point.
2. Wasn't star saber or victory leo(I forget), supposed to be a reincarnated prime? If I'm correct on that, then there goes a large part of the case you had for the later g1 series.
3. Prime and Megatron toys always sell the most, out of any other figure. Its easy money for Hasbro and Takara. Notice why the g1 reissues of them have both become "hard to find"? Its because almost EVERYONE wants them (because its prime and megatron.)
4. Its even so deeply rooted, that the new movie even has prime's original voice actor, strictly due to fan demand. And Even welker has a part in the movie (although not megatrons), he does play megatron's voice actor in the game.

(and by the way, every time you reference hot shot being like bumblebee, you're way off... except for maybe the color of armada and energon's hotshot. bumblebee and hotshot are not alike in personality, and if anything Hotshot is supposed to be your modern day Hot Rod, because Hot Rod isn't trademarked anymore.)

(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:26 am

skywarp-2 wrote:
First Gen wrote:
But I tell you what, the Seibertronian community here has so much talent and imagination, that I bet one of our very own could design a completely new concept behind the TF's. Probably you Skywarp.

Thanks.. i agree there is alot of talent here on Seibertron.com and as such I would love to take a stab at pitching a new side series to hasbro to change up the way they have beeen doing things lately..

See, I like the G-1 Universe, I grew up with it.. so why not go back to it.. why stick with creating a new series every year with brighter colored cars and robots that eventually look like little transformable rainbows??

lets hit on the G-1 series but take it from the perspective of a little known seldom seen or even heard about outpost "Guardian" a secret Autobot base that resembles an Air force base above ground and has holographic humans running around.. of whcih, a young woman from England who was on assignment joins the team.. which was set in the lower heavily wooded jungles of asia..

the small group of Autobots lead by.. and here I go.. this is why it would be Iconic..Captain rank..Leader One..yes a Gobot in name only.. but updated for the g-1 side story series..

Leader One an f-22 jet fighter and commander of the small team..
Ace an old time WW2 fighter and scout..Female
Heat seeker a stealth fighter-male
Bullseye a b1-bomber-male has a chip on his shoulder against Leader One and always questions his decisions..
With
Clutch a old ford type truck -male
Night ranger the long haul motorcycle..female

their mission and epic battle that was going on at the same time as the g-1 series and stopped short just before the events of the G-1 1986 movie..

mission:
Destroy the "Despoticons" a group or mindless robots whose single goal is to multiply and ravage the jungles of Asia and eventually suck the earth dry of its natural resources via consumption.. like locusts..this plague of robots that look eiriely similar to insecticons but much more gruesome and advanced, they turn into a robot that resemble the Hygog from Gundam.. or the Invid from robotech..each with individual trible markings similar to that of the clone troopers from Starwars.. each marking pattern signifies rank in their hive..you have 3 different classes

Leader: Omega Omnitron large robotic Brain..ruler of the despoticons..

Grounders-these are like smaller Invid from Robotech and transform into insects similar to ants..

Flyers- these are like Hornets and transform and fly.. their robot forms look like advanced forms of invid and the quebly from gundam.. i really need to draw these out..

Blastoids- these are large and look like the hygog from gundam in robot form, and turn into giant beetles in alt mode, they are tough and devour large objects rapidly..

Their leader is a giant robotic Brain that was cast aside in the early eons of Cybertronian history..His name is OMega Omnitron..

Omega Omnitron has enlisted simpethisers whose goal is to also destroy the Autobot command and outpost that is a thorn in their evil schemes.. that of the "Renegades" a group of Biker/car decepticons, Lead by Cy-Kill, who have infiltrated the various outlying cities in the asia community surrounding this base and silent secret war..

set as an uneasy ally to the Despoticons is the Biker/car Gang Renegades: nopte they act more like spies and mobsters and gang up on one Autobot at a time..

Cy-Kill Motorcycle leader of the Decepticon biker gang known as the renegades, whose main goal is deception and spying, or sabatoge for the Omega Omnitron..and their swarm of Despoticon minions..

Cop-tur, a small police helicopter who acts as a shadow and spy for Cy-kill.. his motives are unknown..(secretly he is a double agent and really works for the autobots..

Crasher a spoeedster Motorcycle and strong supporter of Cy-kill..

Dart is the smaller ansd fastest Renegade Decepticon motorcyle..

Fly trap- Garbage truck and heavy muscle

Gunnyr - Mig fighter jet..

well anyhow side story that wraps up just before the whole unicron thing.. and the Despoticons are destroyed, the universe is safe, Cy-kill and co.. leave earth to return to Cybertron and so does Leader One and crew..the series would have occasional cameos by Optimus prime and megatron or any other characters to tie it to g-1 but keep it seperate.. its just a thought though.. I have other concepts and ideas.. this was the 1st one off the top of my head..

Now thats what Im talking about. Not only did you hint at old G1 likeness, but you mixed up the bots, different era's and sexes. Thats nice.

Someone get on the artwork for this pronto.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:29 am

Counterpunch wrote:
skywarp-2 wrote:The Hasbro Botcon website itself has items and box sets for sale that are 250.00!! come on!! its a repaint and reheaded group of figures with a cleaver package..not worth 250.00

Not worth it to you.

Let's get this out of the way, you and I do not know what it costs to make, license, or use the molds and processes to produces these VERY limited figures. However,..

Small production runs = high costs

It could very well be that it is costing Master Collector $300 per set to produce these figures and that they are just drawing power to get people to the con. Much like how it costs some $900 to build a PS3, but they still sell them for $600. It's all about the other part of the market, in Playstation's case, the games.

So, $250, $280, whatever, may actually be a bargin for the set. We don't know.

All that aside...

If I am willing to pay for the set and many others are as well, at $280, then the price of the set, is $280. MC won't sell it to you at $100 or $200 because they can sell it to me at $280.

Would I like it to be cheaper? Hell yea, that'd be great. I'd also like my rent to be cheaper, my car payment to be cheaper, and my coffee (especially my $4.50 lattes) to be cheaper. But the price is the price is the price, because people are willing to pay it.

Now, MC could price themselves out of the market. Bring the toys up to $500, $600, or $1000 and more and more people will scoff and say, "No thanks, not worth it."

I full well acknowledge that the price is inflated due to the exclusive nature of the product. But I don't mind that. That is the cost of business. To make high-quality, otherwise unavialable items takes time, money, talent, and people. That all costs money.

If you feel your money is better spent buying a G1 Victory Leo, go for it. Rock on! Victory Leo kicks ass. But it's the same thing. You're paying for the exclusive and limited nature of a toy which when produced, cost about $30 US. Now you're paying $200, $250 easily.

No difference.

While I agree with Skywarps point, Counterpunch just came with his namesake on that one. Kudos.

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:09 pm

First Gen wrote:
Ultra Convoy wrote:If you look at the various timelines I can point out some Autobot and Decepticons Commanders\Leaders that are not decendents of Op. Prime and Megatron. True there are timelines that does have Megs and Prime as commanders/leaders at one point.

Autobots Various Commanders Timelines in some order

Alpha Trion (Gen One Animated Series)
Grimlock (Marvel Gen One comic)
Ultra Magus (temp commander during the Animated Movie)
Rodiums Prime AKA Rodiums Convoy or Hot Rodiums
Fort Max (Takara Headmasters and Marvel Gen One comic)
Cloudburst (Takara Masterforce Series)
God/Super Ginrai (Takara Masterforce looks like Prime but it is NOT PRIME)
Victory Leo (rebulit of Ginrai Masterforce)
Star Saber (Victory Look like Prime, BUT IT IS NOT)
Dai Atlas (Zone OVA)
BW Optimus Primal ( not a decendent of Gen One Prime not counting the upgrade Optimal)

Decepticons commanders various timelines
Shockwave (Marvel Gen One Comic. Gen One anamated series ?)
Bludgeon (Marvel Gen One Comic)
Starscream (for 30 seconds in the Animated Movie)
Devil Z\BlackZarak (Decepticon "God" Masterforce)
Scorponok AKA Mega Zarak (Takara Headmasters)
Violenjiger (Zone OVA)
BW/BM Megatron
Galvatron (BW II and Neo NOT A DECENDENT OF GEN ONE GALVATRON)
Magmatron (BW Neo)

Any more addtions?

Everything you said is true, but I think Skywarps talking about staying with the same character base (ie name, rank, conflict) and not really deviating from it.

I'd like to see a revamp toon that goes back to the beginnings of Senitinal Primes era or something like that. The birth of Orion Pax, Creation of Vector Sigma. Just thoughts.

OHHH yeah that would be awesome!!! not to mention a figure of sentinel prime.. I love that bot he's just kickass!!!

imagine this guy leading a story from the days of Cybertrons past..before the events of G-1..kinda like a knights of the old republic thing...in cartoon and a toyline..

picture him in a leader class..

Full Armor mode... Spartans tonight we dine on Cybertron!!

News Credits: 2 · by **Head Shot** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:12 pm

sorry, because I don't mean to offend...
but ugh... i hate fanfictions so much... I think I'm gonna go watch all of armada to get this one out of my head...

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:57 pm

Head Shot wrote:Okay I'm not reading through all that, but heres my reasoning

1. They tried killing off prime and megatron, to introduce new characters. THIS FAILED HORRIBLY and the blacklash it caused forced Hasbro and Takara to put Prime back in, and make Galvatron more like Megatron (hence why he goes alittle bit crazy, plus ontop of that Frank Welker started doing the voice for him again after the movie). This backlash was so bad, it actually costed Hasbro the series here in America, ebcause shortly afterward, the series ended just when headmasters was starting. This is why you won't see them attempt this again, because history can and ultimately will repeat itself at some point..

The series didn't die because of them replacing Prime or the fact that Frank Welker did the voicing.. the format changed a great deal , and the stories were more alien and spacey then a cartoon about "robots in Disguise" hiding and having a secret, yet sometimes blatent war, granted Optimus and Megatron were staples of that particular show, it could have worked out with Rodimus and Galvatron had they stuck with the core of the premise..plus I think the animation in season 3 got worse not better..

Head Shot wrote:2. Wasn't star saber or victory leo(I forget), supposed to be a reincarnated prime? If I'm correct on that, then there goes a large part of the case you had for the later g1 series

the answer to that is simply NO!! Victory Leo was a reincarnation of God Ginrae, who was not the original Optimus Prime..so i think that theory has been debunked..sorry :-(

Head Shot wrote:3. Prime and Megatron toys always sell the most, out of any other figure. Its easy money for Hasbro and Takara. Notice why the g1 reissues of them have both become "hard to find"? Its because almost EVERYONE wants them (because its prime and megatron.

That woould be true, except for the recent success of the clasics line and the addition of Skyfire/Jetfire, whose popularity outshinned the Optimus and Megatron sales..the only way sales of Megatron and optimus out sold others is because they over produce them.. hence super popular leaders, which was also the downfall of the reissued Masters of the Universe line.. which goes with your comment on the bottom.. I'll explain as soon as I get through the rest of your comments..

Head Shot wrote:4. Its even so deeply rooted, that the new movie even has prime's original voice actor, strictly due to fan demand. And Even welker has a part in the movie (although not megatrons), he does play megatron's voice actor in the game.

It's a live action G-1 who wouldn't want those voices back.. its like the Batman show having the same voice actor for batman that was in the animated series..

Head Shot wrote:(and by the way, every time you reference hot shot being like bumblebee, you're way off... except for maybe the color of armada and energon's hotshot. bumblebee and hotshot are not alike in personality, and if anything Hotshot is supposed to be your modern day Hot Rod, because Hot Rod isn't trademarked anymore.).

Yeah except Hotshot was replacing Bumblebee because there was a Hot rodimus in that series, I believe they made a big deal about his return in either Armada or Energon..now this comment is my favorite..

Head Shot wrote:(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

Business people with experience, hmmm thats what lead us to the cancellation of the Masters of the Universe line...

not to mention i don't hate the classics line, i like them i even bought 2, but realised I'm older, and want more detailed and accurate transformers, like the Masterpiece line, with the exception of Starscreams modifications, i'm pretty satisfied.. adn I may yet get those classics, but around here they go on clearance at great prices..

As far as them not caring what fans want, thats capitolism.. huh.. I thought that was just ignorant marketing and development, which tends to happen in large toy corporations from time to time..that type of reasoning leads to mindless bending over and taking it from governments, toy companies, you name it... without question...

Why is it when someone wants to appeal smart, they always tend to use the same line Hypocritical, or not making sense.. or so on or so forth..i see it all the time..it doesn't make you look smarter just more vendicitive..

And I don't say get away from G-1 I meant to get away from rehashing it over and over and over again..A/E/C is a perfect example.. and if continues on this trend will stifle the series.. and I'm not alone..besides I think a side story in addition 2 G-1 would be nice, i also like Leonardo's idea of going more in depth into Rodimus Prime.. and First gen's idea of Sentinel Prime as a series..a new villain, a new leader, a new breath of fresh air.. whats wrong with that, try rolling down the window in your car sometime and take a deep breath.. it'll loosen you up, and maybe you won't find hypocrisy surrounding you so much..

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:09 pm

Head Shot wrote:sorry, because I don't mean to offend...
but ugh... i hate fanfictions so much... I think I'm gonna go watch all of armada to get this one out of my head...

you must like a good egg breakfast with a side of rehash..

Fan fiction is what lead to the production of the Star Wars expanded univesre line where Admiral Thrawn became so popular in novels and comic books.. if fan fiction sucks, then what about IDW and their stories on the transformers, or Marvel's, Dreamwave's, the movie script...?? in a way all those writers are fans and those fictions don't necessarily follow the cartoons story, hasbros, or takaras stories..

Not to mention the Botcon stuff which you so rigourlessly defend is all expanded, fan fiction, that then became official.. so by your reasoning, if it doesn't have a hasblo stamp then its crud...wow ..

You have in my opinion demonstrated that you lack imagination and only accept what comes out of Hasbros factory.. sad, sad, sad.. i really hope you find your childhood soon.. this site is great and will help you.. :grin:

Imagination is the spice of life, if lost call Sherlock Holmes, if you believe he's just a book character, then read it..If you still can't find imagination.. just watch TV.. it'll wipe that loss of imagination out of your mind...

by **wmpyr** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:16 pm

those of you that complained that
classics Meg has flurocent green moth wings... ok
or said classics Meg turns into a nerf gun.... ok
or G1 Meg has a trigger crotch... ok

BUT

those of you that said
Menasor has a different face so you don't like him...
come on, enjoy some variety, he looks like a KNIGHT!

or Vector Prime turns into a Sith Infiltrator..
AND?!?!! that is cool!

or Cyb Meg turns into a Batmobile...
once again.... AND?!?!!!

open your minds

you start getting brainwashed so bad,
that you start to expect cookie cutter stuff

ok I don't mean the above in a malicious way,
just wanted to show the other perspective

fear of change and new things means you fear
REALLY living.

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:21 am

My concern is, even if we had a show about Sentinel Prime, or if we had something like skywarp-2's idea, would it really be much different? I can't imagine that such a series would come out as anything other than a rehash of what has been before. Even the lists that detail leaders who were different from Optimus and Megatron don't show a marked departure from the first G1 seasons. Those shows (Masterforce, Victory, etc.) were still rehashes.

O, and skywarp-2:

skywarp-2 wrote:It's a live action G-1 who wouldn't want those voices back.. its like the Batman show having the same voice actor for batman that was in the animated series..

The movie is not a live action G1! It's a new continuity, albeit a rehash. It's only G1 in so far as RiD or Armada were G1.

P.S. What Batman show are you talking about?

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:31 am

skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

Business people with experience, hmmm thats what lead us to the cancellation of the Masters of the Universe line.

That was the losers over at Mattel which were responsible for that disaster, not Hasbro.

skywarp-2 wrote:Why is it when someone wants to appeal smart, they always tend to use the same line Hypocritical, or not making sense.. or so on or so forth..i see it all the time..it doesn't make you look smarter just more vendicitive.

I don’t use those terms in debate. If someone hasn’t figured out yet that I am indeed quite ‘smart’ or at least clever, all they have to do is ask me and I will tell them all about it.

Here’s the issue…

Dress it up however you like, Headshot is right about why G1 Season 3 failed. Prime died, kids stopped caring. Prime’s death in the movie was a BIG deal. Children cried, mothers wrote letters, the GI Joe movie was re-written. I was a child at the time. Me and my friends LOVED the futuristic vehicles. This was the 80’s bro. The future was NOW. All the same, Prime’s death was all important.

He’s really right about Hot Shot as well. Hot Shot is the modern Hot Rod (and they would have used the name, but the trademark was gone). The mini cons are more towards Bumblebee’s role as the liaison between the children and transformers.

As to the classics, Prime and Megatron were the big sellers. True, Jetfire was released in limited fashion and mostly bought up by collectors and we don’t really know if he would have sold as well as Prime and Megatron given the chance. Be honest though, it’s not likely that he’d outsell Prime, hardly anything ever does.

Back to Classics…You want all this cool stuff. You want a new line of this, that, and the other thing, but Classics aren’t detailed and articulated enough for you? If only the Masterpiece line is enough to suit your collecting needs, why bother suggesting anything else. Because, in all likelihood, Hasbro will end up making a new series and it won’t be what you want, because nothing seems to appease your Transformer collecting habits.

You sound like the guy who won’t eat off of silver plates just because there are gold plates somewhere out there in the world.

(and er…I hate fan-fiction as well for these reasons: 1. It NEVER goes through an editorial process and no one ever says, “Hey that sucks, rework it sucka!” and 2. Ever one of them has to have some kind of robo-sex scene with Arcee.)

by **Ultra Convoy** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:08 am

In this day and age of the US toy safety rules and regs, toy manufactures can't make realistc toy guns. So if you want Megs to transform into a gun it will be a nerf gun. The MP Megs is an oversized P-38. I do like it that Classic Bumblebee over the Gen One Pentender Bee. Like the remolds of Fort Max of the later series wasn't released over here due to regs.

There are conflicting info about who was the first commander for the autobots. Metalhawk or Cloudburst was the first Commander/Leader of the Masterforce series.

The transector Ginrai IS NOT PRIME/CONVOY . The body was supposed to be a new body for Prime/Convoy.

Since this site focus more on the Japan timelines, Battelstars: Return of Convoy, have Prime/Convoy returns as Star Convoy. Gen One Galvatron was turn back into Super Megs.

I left out Leo Convoy. I think he supposed to be an future incarnation of the org. Convoy.

Reverse Convoy is another ? mark. Since the Robotmaster series is not further explore.

Thunderclash is another ? mark. He was supposed to be another Autobot commander that is not a decended of Prime. In Europe anyways.

Jhiaxus is an org. Decepticon Gen 2 commander. Straxus from the few issues that he appears in (UK and US Gen One comics) I view him a tinhorn warlord.

Beast Megatron is the same BW/BM Megatron from the Robotmasters Series. Note this is the first time that a Gen One TF series was done in 3D. Ture that Gen One TF's do make cameo appearences in Beast Wars series. (Both Japan and US)

The Convoys in Galaxy Force is questionable as well.

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:28 am

skywarp-2 wrote:
First Gen wrote:
Ultra Convoy wrote:If you look at the various timelines I can point out some Autobot and Decepticons Commanders\Leaders that are not decendents of Op. Prime and Megatron. True there are timelines that does have Megs and Prime as commanders/leaders at one point.

Autobots Various Commanders Timelines in some order

Alpha Trion (Gen One Animated Series)
Grimlock (Marvel Gen One comic)
Ultra Magus (temp commander during the Animated Movie)
Rodiums Prime AKA Rodiums Convoy or Hot Rodiums
Fort Max (Takara Headmasters and Marvel Gen One comic)
Cloudburst (Takara Masterforce Series)
God/Super Ginrai (Takara Masterforce looks like Prime but it is NOT PRIME)
Victory Leo (rebulit of Ginrai Masterforce)
Star Saber (Victory Look like Prime, BUT IT IS NOT)
Dai Atlas (Zone OVA)
BW Optimus Primal ( not a decendent of Gen One Prime not counting the upgrade Optimal)

Decepticons commanders various timelines
Shockwave (Marvel Gen One Comic. Gen One anamated series ?)
Bludgeon (Marvel Gen One Comic)
Starscream (for 30 seconds in the Animated Movie)
Devil Z\BlackZarak (Decepticon "God" Masterforce)
Scorponok AKA Mega Zarak (Takara Headmasters)
Violenjiger (Zone OVA)
BW/BM Megatron
Galvatron (BW II and Neo NOT A DECENDENT OF GEN ONE GALVATRON)
Magmatron (BW Neo)

Any more addtions?

Everything you said is true, but I think Skywarps talking about staying with the same character base (ie name, rank, conflict) and not really deviating from it.

I'd like to see a revamp toon that goes back to the beginnings of Senitinal Primes era or something like that. The birth of Orion Pax, Creation of Vector Sigma. Just thoughts.

OHHH yeah that would be awesome!!! not to mention a figure of sentinel prime.. I love that bot he's just kickass!!!

imagine this guy leading a story from the days of Cybertrons past..before the events of G-1..kinda like a knights of the old republic thing...in cartoon and a toyline..

picture him in a leader class..

Full Armor mode... Spartans tonight we dine on Cybertron!!

Rehash or not, I would love to see this Prime in action.

Think about it, the origin of the Matrix of Leadership, The birth of the Autobot resistance to Decepticon rule. A-3 as a young bot.

To this point, we've only had theory's and flashbacks in comics to explain the true origins of the Autobot Decepticon war. Its like picking up a series of books and starting with book 3 of 7. We're missing an important part of the story.

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:37 am

Counterpunch wrote:
skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

Business people with experience, hmmm thats what lead us to the cancellation of the Masters of the Universe line.

That was the losers over at Mattel which were responsible for that disaster, not Hasbro.

skywarp-2 wrote:Why is it when someone wants to appeal smart, they always tend to use the same line Hypocritical, or not making sense.. or so on or so forth..i see it all the time..it doesn't make you look smarter just more vendicitive.

I don’t use those terms in debate. If someone hasn’t figured out yet that I am indeed quite ‘smart’ or at least clever, all they have to do is ask me and I will tell them all about it.

Here’s the issue…

Dress it up however you like, Headshot is right about why G1 Season 3 failed. Prime died, kids stopped caring. Prime’s death in the movie was a BIG deal. Children cried, mothers wrote letters, the GI Joe movie was re-written. I was a child at the time. Me and my friends LOVED the futuristic vehicles. This was the 80’s bro. The future was NOW. All the same, Prime’s death was all important.

He’s really right about Hot Shot as well. Hot Shot is the modern Hot Rod (and they would have used the name, but the trademark was gone). The mini cons are more towards Bumblebee’s role as the liaison between the children and transformers.

As to the classics, Prime and Megatron were the big sellers. True, Jetfire was released in limited fashion and mostly bought up by collectors and we don’t really know if he would have sold as well as Prime and Megatron given the chance. Be honest though, it’s not likely that he’d outsell Prime, hardly anything ever does.

Back to Classics…You want all this cool stuff. You want a new line of this, that, and the other thing, but Classics aren’t detailed and articulated enough for you? If only the Masterpiece line is enough to suit your collecting needs, why bother suggesting anything else. Because, in all likelihood, Hasbro will end up making a new series and it won’t be what you want, because nothing seems to appease your Transformer collecting habits.

You sound like the guy who won’t eat off of silver plates just because there are gold plates somewhere out there in the world.

(and er…I hate fan-fiction as well for these reasons: 1. It NEVER goes through an editorial process and no one ever says, “Hey that sucks, rework it sucka!” and 2. Ever one of them has to have some kind of robo-sex scene with Arcee.)

ok but why can't they do a classics line for the collectors that is more along the lines of the Alternators realism and transformation? I mean i understand the full market release thing, but classics is really the collectors play ground and g-1 ers bag.. or if they wanted to appeal to today's kids to draw them into the g-1 mythos, then why not do the classics line for the kiddies and give the adults and alternators similar in quality line with the original G-1 bots as they were in the 80s show..??

that's all I was saying.. I mean I would pay 20.00 for a good representation of the original G-1 Ironhide, Jazz, ratchet, or Prowl.. heck they already had a masterpiece Prime on th market 20th anniversary, and the dvd 25th anniversary versions..all that they would be able to do was make a tank Megs that was larger, or the nerf one kinda fits, i just which it was colored silver and black, i mean come on, it really doesn't look like a hand gun...

But it makes sense that Hasbro didn't try that.. if they went that route it would probably have over shadowed the Movie toy releases..yet given the success of the classics line, it would have worked for the collectors side if they did alternators versions of the g-1 cars.. and somehow did the soundwave, jets and camera in that quality as well..

I guess I'm just picky thats all.. and I'm a complete-ist who suffers from too much control, so I buy what I like that comes the closest to the G-1 in terms of representation in toy form..otherwise I'd be broke..

There is a lot of inventory out there.. so i discriminate based on quality and likeness and transformation..versus just out right buying..

As far as Hasbro making a new series?? well i don't know its not out yet, but darn it, why can't the toys be a little better in quality and articulation.. granted the g-1 stuff was awful with articulation and likeness, but it was the realistic alt modes , diecast, and reasonable paint applications that still holds that line as a great buy, even today..

And since its been what almost 30 years since their debut, articulation, engineering, and paint applications have come along way since those days...So i hold up alternators as the perfect example of how G-1 should be rereleased..or any future bots for that matter, I mean look at whats been coming out of Hasbro for awhile now, they are like multicolored rainbow bots.. it's crazy and not in any ways like the realism in Alternators, or G-1..

I mean I like classics for what it is a great toyline..but I wish it could have been done in the alternators way.. or atleast one released every now and then..

my fan fiction would not have robo sex..and if I was working with a great editor I would rework alot of stuff..if it was reasonable and made the story better.. its not about personal glory, its about bringing fresh and new ideas to the public for everyones enjoyment.. my personal glory comes from my family and the business I'm building..I'm quite satisfied there..this is my secret fan-boy nerdy joy..

News Credits: 1014 · by **First Gen** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:42 am

my fan fiction would not have robo sex..

Aww, man, u lost me on that one. lol.

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:17 am

First Gen wrote:
my fan fiction would not have robo sex..

Aww, man, u lost me on that one. lol.

sorry g rated i have an 8 year old boy and a 6 year old girl..

but yeah the origins of the g-1 autobot resistance, the rise to power of the Decepticons, who was the first leader, who did Megatron assisinate.. it's like episode 1-3 of Star wars all over again..I can imagine an arena of decepticons in gladiator style duking it out for leadership of the group...

the resoning behind the symbols and what heroic bots they represented..I mean Sentinel Prime could be the face of the Autobot symbol..that would rock..

there is so much potential and it wouldn't be a rehash of G-1 it would be totally new, not Optimus megatron bashses, not starscream megatron dichotomy..

Earth could be an ancient play ground where the battle for good and evil played out...and the start of the war began..heck the myans would be a good place to set it, because of the mystery surrounding it..and since this is fantasy what about atlantis?? I know make it as real as possible.. but hey its a good line and wouldn't really be a rehash, since it doesn't have an Optimus prime or Megatron as the main battle..

lets get this one thing straight, when i say rehash, i mean Optimus vs Megatron, Starscream and megatron arueing.. ect.. ect.. not G-1 as a bad thing, just rehashing the g-1 formula..

We all know there has to be a main villain, and hero, we all know there has to be a war, and we all know that there has to be a cybertron..wether its a side story of Armada, G-1, bast wars, energon, Cybertron, headmasters, Victory, zone ect.. ect..or a prehistory story involving Sentinel prime.. as long as its not Optimus vs Megatron.. thats all i'm saying..

by **Zombie Starscream** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:40 pm

This was an idea I was thinking of when I was reading all the posts made here...

Instead of a straight clone of an Optimus or a Megatron, the idea I would have for nearly a whole differant story would be something like this (set in G1, on Earth)

Autobots
Sub Faction Leader: Deverous -He is not a Gry Stu-type Transformer like Prime can be, he is getting very old and sometimes does not always make the right descisions.

2nd in Command: Night Fire -Is reckless. Does not always act responsibly, will sometimes end up causing trouble and enimity between the local humans and the Autobots. Can have a nasty temper if pushed too far.

3rd- Dark Unity - Is the peacemaker, sometimes takes on the task of cleaning up the discord between Night Fire and the Humans and maintaining order.

Other various Autobots are in this subfaction, not many, it is a small local one.

Decepticons-

Leader: Silant Fury - Was once an assasin, he does not choose to attack openly, but uses subterfuge and cunning. Is an open admirer of Megatron and his elite Decepticons he has with him.

2nd in command: Redshift -Does his duty and thats it. Is only there because the job pays well conidering.

3rd: WhiteStorm - Has a personal vendetta against Starscream, hopes to rise in ranks and get his revenge over something Starscream did to him a long time ago. Wants to also take Starscream's place as Megatron's second in command.

They would have their base in the Eastern half of the U.S or Great Britain, I'm not sure. They were privy to hearing Megatron's ideas concerning taking over the Earth, and are helping him in their corner of the globe. They also want to make their presance soon known, and show the humans who the new top species is now. Naturally the local Autobots will try and stop them. Both sides are not perfect bad guys or good guys, even the Decepticon leader wil doubt Megatron, and the Autobot leader will make mistakes.

News Credits: 2 · by **Head Shot** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:52 pm

Counterpunch wrote:
skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

Business people with experience, hmmm thats what lead us to the cancellation of the Masters of the Universe line.

That was the losers over at Mattel which were responsible for that disaster, not Hasbro.

skywarp-2 wrote:Why is it when someone wants to appeal smart, they always tend to use the same line Hypocritical, or not making sense.. or so on or so forth..i see it all the time..it doesn't make you look smarter just more vendicitive.

I don’t use those terms in debate. If someone hasn’t figured out yet that I am indeed quite ‘smart’ or at least clever, all they have to do is ask me and I will tell them all about it.

Here’s the issue…

Dress it up however you like, Headshot is right about why G1 Season 3 failed. Prime died, kids stopped caring. Prime’s death in the movie was a BIG deal. Children cried, mothers wrote letters, the GI Joe movie was re-written. I was a child at the time. Me and my friends LOVED the futuristic vehicles. This was the 80’s bro. The future was NOW. All the same, Prime’s death was all important.

He’s really right about Hot Shot as well. Hot Shot is the modern Hot Rod (and they would have used the name, but the trademark was gone). The mini cons are more towards Bumblebee’s role as the liaison between the children and transformers.

As to the classics, Prime and Megatron were the big sellers. True, Jetfire was released in limited fashion and mostly bought up by collectors and we don’t really know if he would have sold as well as Prime and Megatron given the chance. Be honest though, it’s not likely that he’d outsell Prime, hardly anything ever does.

Back to Classics…You want all this cool stuff. You want a new line of this, that, and the other thing, but Classics aren’t detailed and articulated enough for you? If only the Masterpiece line is enough to suit your collecting needs, why bother suggesting anything else. Because, in all likelihood, Hasbro will end up making a new series and it won’t be what you want, because nothing seems to appease your Transformer collecting habits.

You sound like the guy who won’t eat off of silver plates just because there are gold plates somewhere out there in the world.

(and er…I hate fan-fiction as well for these reasons: 1. It NEVER goes through an editorial process and no one ever says, “Hey that sucks, rework it sucka!” and 2. Ever one of them has to have some kind of robo-sex scene with Arcee.)

Thanks counterpunch, appreciate the second opinion on this.

skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:sorry, because I don't mean to offend...
but ugh... i hate fanfictions so much... I think I'm gonna go watch all of armada to get this one out of my head...

you must like a good egg breakfast with a side of rehash..

Fan fiction is what lead to the production of the Star Wars expanded univesre line where Admiral Thrawn became so popular in novels and comic books.. if fan fiction sucks, then what about IDW and their stories on the transformers, or Marvel's, Dreamwave's, the movie script...?? in a way all those writers are fans and those fictions don't necessarily follow the cartoons story, hasbros, or takaras stories..

Not to mention the Botcon stuff which you so rigourlessly defend is all expanded, fan fiction, that then became official.. so by your reasoning, if it doesn't have a hasblo stamp then its crud...wow ..

You have in my opinion demonstrated that you lack imagination and only accept what comes out of Hasbros factory.. sad, sad, sad.. i really hope you find your childhood soon.. this site is great and will help you..

Imagination is the spice of life, if lost call Sherlock Holmes, if you believe he's just a book character, then read it..If you still can't find imagination.. just watch TV.. it'll wipe that loss of imagination out of your mind...

Uhm no, actually its because every single one of them I read, is utter trash, with rehashed names and settings. And Although you may not have the robo-sex that so commonly goes with these convoluted stories, I honestly think the writing makes me want to cry.

And don't get me wrong, for a fanfiction, yours was definetly not the worst I've read.

Hmm, you must like putting words in my mouth because I never once said anywhere that "I only accept what comes out of Hasbros factory..." because quite frankly the stories they've come up with have been pretty bad, granted they are mostly dubs as of late, and the last decent show in my mind was Beast wars and beast machines (although beast machines had a decent story, I didn't care for the change in style as far as the designs and looks of the characters.)

I defend botcon so rigorously because all you can find to attack it is, the set is expensive, and has desirable transformers in it that you (and many others) blindly beleive will rake the money in for Hasbro if they made a general release. The point of a convention set is to make something DESIRABLE like that so theat... oh my god.... IT CAN SELL OUT. Limited releases will always have jacked up prices because, thats the only way they can make money off of it. Yes I would rather pay less for the set, but as counterpunch said, "I'd also want my bills to be lower"
And ontop of that gas prices to stay below $1.50 a gallon, and for my dead dog to be brought back to life.

when you come up with a better excuse than "I want it but its too much." than pm me, but otherwise, I stand by what I said earlier about Botcon.

And no, the comic books that are licensed by hasbro are by no means considered fan fiction, because... they're licensed by hasbro. They get WRITERS with even a shred of talent, and come up with a story. Granted, many are rather redundant, but others can be quite good.

And where did this attack on my imagination come from?
and more importantly, what the eff is this: "i really hope you find your childhood soon.. this site is great and will help you.." Relax dude, I haven't seen attacks like this since movie starscream's designs first showed up. (and secondly, I know this site is great, thats why I've been here for so long.

)

And on another note, I don't care what fan fiction did for star wars. I was never that big of a fan of star wars, sure it was great, but robots that transformed (g1 and g2 era when I was growing up), was alot more fascinating and cool than Jedi's and Sith (one reason why I'm here and not at some star wars fan board).

If this is gonna escalate into a battle between the two of us, I'd rather take this to pm's, but I'm not trying to start a battle, just defend what I said.

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:22 pm

Zombie Starscream wrote:This was an idea I was thinking of when I was reading all the posts made here...

Instead of a straight clone of an Optimus or a Megatron, the idea I would have for nearly a whole differant story would be something like this (set in G1, on Earth)

Autobots
Sub Faction Leader: Deverous -He is not a Gry Stu-type Transformer like Prime can be, he is getting very old and sometimes does not always make the right descisions.

2nd in Command: Night Fire -Is reckless. Does not always act responsibly, will sometimes end up causing trouble and enimity between the local humans and the Autobots. Can have a nasty temper if pushed too far.

3rd- Dark Unity - Is the peacemaker, sometimes takes on the task of cleaning up the discord between Night Fire and the Humans and maintaining order.

Other various Autobots are in this subfaction, not many, it is a small local one.

Decepticons-

Leader: Silant Fury - Was once an assasin, he does not choose to attack openly, but uses subterfuge and cunning. Is an open admirer of Megatron and his elite Decepticons he has with him.

2nd in command: Redshift -Does his duty and thats it. Is only there because the job pays well conidering.

3rd: WhiteStorm - Has a personal vendetta against Starscream, hopes to rise in ranks and get his revenge over something Starscream did to him a long time ago. Wants to also take Starscream's place as Megatron's second in command.

They would have their base in the Eastern half of the U.S or Great Britain, I'm not sure. They were privy to hearing Megatron's ideas concerning taking over the Earth, and are helping him in their corner of the globe. They also want to make their presance soon known, and show the humans who the new top species is now. Naturally the local Autobots will try and stop them. Both sides are not perfect bad guys or good guys, even the Decepticon leader wil doubt Megatron, and the Autobot leader will make mistakes.

nice idea, i like it.. especially the differences in the autobots and decepticons..great what would the line be called though.. for the one I was thinking of based on first Gen's idea, I think Transformers Rising would be a good title since this is where the war rose from and started the whole thing..or Transformers Sentinel which would reference the sacrifices that sentinel prime made to succed in the formation of the autobot resistance before his demise and passing of the matrix..

News Credits: 5 · by **skywarp-2** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:36 pm

Head Shot wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:(also skywarp, I have a question, how come it seems like almost EVERY conversation you start seems to be so much so about getting away from g1, and everything related to g1? I'm not mad or anything, but its just so weird for you to question g1, and yet at the same time be so supportive of it, such as whining that the classics botcon set shouldn't be $280, and a general release. I just find it so hypocritically funny. Things are done the way they are because business people with EXPERIENCE, and know what they are doing, are making the decisions, and unfortunately for you and many of us, we aren't the ones making the decisions. Everything that Hasbro and Takara do they think will do well and bring them money. They don't care if you want a complete set of seekers, because the market for releasing 6 of the same mold, with possible minor remolds has virtually a limited market outside of collectors. Deal with it, because thats capitolism.)

Business people with experience, hmmm thats what lead us to the cancellation of the Masters of the Universe line.

That was the losers over at Mattel which were responsible for that disaster, not Hasbro.

skywarp-2 wrote:Why is it when someone wants to appeal smart, they always tend to use the same line Hypocritical, or not making sense.. or so on or so forth..i see it all the time..it doesn't make you look smarter just more vendicitive.

I don’t use those terms in debate. If someone hasn’t figured out yet that I am indeed quite ‘smart’ or at least clever, all they have to do is ask me and I will tell them all about it.

Here’s the issue…

Dress it up however you like, Headshot is right about why G1 Season 3 failed. Prime died, kids stopped caring. Prime’s death in the movie was a BIG deal. Children cried, mothers wrote letters, the GI Joe movie was re-written. I was a child at the time. Me and my friends LOVED the futuristic vehicles. This was the 80’s bro. The future was NOW. All the same, Prime’s death was all important.

He’s really right about Hot Shot as well. Hot Shot is the modern Hot Rod (and they would have used the name, but the trademark was gone). The mini cons are more towards Bumblebee’s role as the liaison between the children and transformers.

As to the classics, Prime and Megatron were the big sellers. True, Jetfire was released in limited fashion and mostly bought up by collectors and we don’t really know if he would have sold as well as Prime and Megatron given the chance. Be honest though, it’s not likely that he’d outsell Prime, hardly anything ever does.

Back to Classics…You want all this cool stuff. You want a new line of this, that, and the other thing, but Classics aren’t detailed and articulated enough for you? If only the Masterpiece line is enough to suit your collecting needs, why bother suggesting anything else. Because, in all likelihood, Hasbro will end up making a new series and it won’t be what you want, because nothing seems to appease your Transformer collecting habits.

You sound like the guy who won’t eat off of silver plates just because there are gold plates somewhere out there in the world.

(and er…I hate fan-fiction as well for these reasons: 1. It NEVER goes through an editorial process and no one ever says, “Hey that sucks, rework it sucka!” and 2. Ever one of them has to have some kind of robo-sex scene with Arcee.)
Thanks counterpunch, appreciate the second opinion on this.

skywarp-2 wrote:
Head Shot wrote:sorry, because I don't mean to offend...
but ugh... i hate fanfictions so much... I think I'm gonna go watch all of armada to get this one out of my head...

you must like a good egg breakfast with a side of rehash..

Fan fiction is what lead to the production of the Star Wars expanded univesre line where Admiral Thrawn became so popular in novels and comic books.. if fan fiction sucks, then what about IDW and their stories on the transformers, or Marvel's, Dreamwave's, the movie script...?? in a way all those writers are fans and those fictions don't necessarily follow the cartoons story, hasbros, or takaras stories..

Not to mention the Botcon stuff which you so rigourlessly defend is all expanded, fan fiction, that then became official.. so by your reasoning, if it doesn't have a hasblo stamp then its crud...wow ..

You have in my opinion demonstrated that you lack imagination and only accept what comes out of Hasbros factory.. sad, sad, sad.. i really hope you find your childhood soon.. this site is great and will help you..

Imagination is the spice of life, if lost call Sherlock Holmes, if you believe he's just a book character, then read it..If you still can't find imagination.. just watch TV.. it'll wipe that loss of imagination out of your mind...
Uhm no, actually its because every single one of them I read, is utter trash, with rehashed names and settings. And Although you may not have the robo-sex that so commonly goes with these convoluted stories, I honestly think the writing makes me want to cry.

And don't get me wrong, for a fanfiction, yours was definetly not the worst I've read.

Hmm, you must like putting words in my mouth because I never once said anywhere that "I only accept what comes out of Hasbros factory..." because quite frankly the stories they've come up with have been pretty bad, granted they are mostly dubs as of late, and the last decent show in my mind was Beast wars and beast machines (although beast machines had a decent story, I didn't care for the change in style as far as the designs and looks of the characters.)

I defend botcon so rigorously because all you can find to attack it is, the set is expensive, and has desirable transformers in it that you (and many others) blindly beleive will rake the money in for Hasbro if they made a general release. The point of a convention set is to make something DESIRABLE like that so theat... oh my god.... IT CAN SELL OUT. Limited releases will always have jacked up prices because, thats the only way they can make money off of it. Yes I would rather pay less for the set, but as counterpunch said, "I'd also want my bills to be lower"
And ontop of that gas prices to stay below $1.50 a gallon, and for my dead dog to be brought back to life.

when you come up with a better excuse than "I want it but its too much." than pm me, but otherwise, I stand by what I said earlier about Botcon.

And no, the comic books that are licensed by hasbro are by no means considered fan fiction, because... they're licensed by hasbro. They get WRITERS with even a shred of talent, and come up with a story. Granted, many are rather redundant, but others can be quite good.

And where did this attack on my imagination come from?
and more importantly, what the eff is this: "i really hope you find your childhood soon.. this site is great and will help you.." Relax dude, I haven't seen attacks like this since movie starscream's designs first showed up. (and secondly, I know this site is great, thats why I've been here for so long. )

And on another note, I don't care what fan fiction did for star wars. I was never that big of a fan of star wars, sure it was great, but robots that transformed (g1 and g2 era when I was growing up), was alot more fascinating and cool than Jedi's and Sith (one reason why I'm here and not at some star wars fan board).

If this is gonna escalate into a battle between the two of us, I'd rather take this to pm's, but I'm not trying to start a battle, just defend what I said.

no, see there is no war.... not that I'm not up for a good word brawl, it simply isn't worth it, i mean people are awarded an opinion on anything they want but telling me I'm wrong versus stating your opinion in disagreement is 2 totally different things, though me and counterpunch frequently don't see eye to eye I respect his opinion and sometimes adhear to his point of view as i have seen him do for me on occasion..

that said, my comments were meant to be funny or comical and vindictive.. except the imagination part, I really was being an ass there.. Just kidding..

but seriously I have no love for the botcon exclusives because of 4 reasons.. yes the first is price, though i understand it, I'm not happy with it..I never said though that Hasbro should release the botvcon exclusives as a wide release.. I simply said if I had to choose between those and Victory or Zone toys and the money was similar, i'd go with Zone, or victory because of the story and History.. plus the fact that the Botcon exclusives, though clever are basically rehashes of another bot with a resculpted head and new paint applications, I'm tired of repaints, new head sculpts..except when it comes to the seekers, because granted they are exactly the same they had great personality in G-1 which makes me love em all..the 3 original.. but i gotta say Sunstorm was cool in the comics..

i consider fan fiction any thing outside of the TV series that has been shown, because wether it has a stamp or seal of legitimacy from Hasbro or not, it's still outside the series kids identify with and follow to begin with..

I'm sorry you dislike Star Wars, but it is another series Hasbro has been producing for awhile, which is a great example of what has and could be achieved through their company..I love the dark side luke action figure, or the grand Admiral thrawn figure, they were all cool.. I just feel sorry you'll never see it from that point of view..it is actually very cool..

Imagination, well you know its great that you have been a long time member of this board, and in defense of fan fiction and non sanctioned Hasbro ideas i say this, you can work in a flower shop for 20 years and yet never stop and smell the roses..

by **Zombie Starscream** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:08 am

skywarp-2 wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote:This was an idea I was thinking of when I was reading all the posts made here...

Instead of a straight clone of an Optimus or a Megatron, the idea I would have for nearly a whole differant story would be something like this (set in G1, on Earth)

Autobots
Sub Faction Leader: Deverous -He is not a Gry Stu-type Transformer like Prime can be, he is getting very old and sometimes does not always make the right descisions.

2nd in Command: Night Fire -Is reckless. Does not always act responsibly, will sometimes end up causing trouble and enimity between the local humans and the Autobots. Can have a nasty temper if pushed too far.

3rd- Dark Unity - Is the peacemaker, sometimes takes on the task of cleaning up the discord between Night Fire and the Humans and maintaining order.

Other various Autobots are in this subfaction, not many, it is a small local one.

Decepticons-

Leader: Silant Fury - Was once an assasin, he does not choose to attack openly, but uses subterfuge and cunning. Is an open admirer of Megatron and his elite Decepticons he has with him.

2nd in command: Redshift -Does his duty and thats it. Is only there because the job pays well conidering.

3rd: WhiteStorm - Has a personal vendetta against Starscream, hopes to rise in ranks and get his revenge over something Starscream did to him a long time ago. Wants to also take Starscream's place as Megatron's second in command.

They would have their base in the Eastern half of the U.S or Great Britain, I'm not sure. They were privy to hearing Megatron's ideas concerning taking over the Earth, and are helping him in their corner of the globe. They also want to make their presance soon known, and show the humans who the new top species is now. Naturally the local Autobots will try and stop them. Both sides are not perfect bad guys or good guys, even the Decepticon leader wil doubt Megatron, and the Autobot leader will make mistakes.

nice idea, i like it.. especially the differences in the autobots and decepticons..great what would the line be called though.. for the one I was thinking of based on first Gen's idea, I think Transformers Rising would be a good title since this is where the war rose from and started the whole thing..or Transformers Sentinel which would reference the sacrifices that sentinel prime made to succed in the formation of the autobot resistance before his demise and passing of the matrix..

Thank you

I think Transformers Rising would be a good title, though I'm not exactly sure how it would begin maybe set on Cybertron at first and then a little later Earth. I know the character WhiteStorm REALLY hates Starscream, I really like Starscream but I know there are some people who can't stand him, and it would be interesting having that kind of feeling in there and writing about it. WhiteStorm thinks Starscream is a joke and one of his lines could be "Look what I've found, it's Screamer the Clown!" or something like that. Silant Fury, as he uses subterfuge, would poison the views of the local populace against the Autobots by spreading lies and disorder but blaming all that on the Autobots, and at the same time making him and his men look good. And it doesn't help with all the stunts Night Fire pulls! Deverous is old, he is getting a little senile and because of this doesn't always think clearly. He is in a way like an old grandfather though, kind and gentle though as he is getting old, he can be irritable and sometimes snaps at his troops when he isn't feeling well. So it would be interesting to expand on this, even if it was a fanfic only, as it would be something differant then the usual fare. I just would need a little help as I don't fully know all the big name characters (Megatron etc) if I were to write this.