The Energon Pub

larenzo177 wrote:I thought WFC was canon with G1 aswell?

It looked like it was going to be but there ended up being too many inconsistencies. For example, Jetfire even being in the game contradicts his first appearance in the cartoon. There's also contradictions about the Matrix, Optimus's predecessor, Cybertron's core, the existence of Dark Energon, Trypticon's existence, and numerous other details.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yes, I was also under the impression WFC was linked to G1. Could be wrong though. As for the Unicron trilogy, I always thought there can be a connection made to G1, in the comics. (I prefer the comics to the cartoons for series that had comics) In the end of G2 They were all back on Cybertron, Prime being a truck and Megatron being a big green tank. It doesn't take a lot to fill in the void from there to when Armada begins - with Prime as a truck and Megatron as a big green tank, albeit a bit modified.

It does, actually. If I recall, Armada is supposed to take place in 2010 or something, five years after G1 at most, and yet the Autobots try very hard to keep themselves hidden when, if it were connected to G1, they should have a large base on Earth and several humans in their ranks. Unless there was some kind of mass amnesia, along with a catastrophe that knocked Earth's technology back several years which also demolished Autobot City, it takes quite a lot to fill the gap. And remember, Beast Wars takes place only a few hundred years after G1. (Technically it takes place BEFORE, but you know what I mean)

Shadowman wrote:

larenzo177 wrote:I thought WFC was canon with G1 aswell?

It looked like it was going to be but there ended up being too many inconsistencies. For example, Jetfire even being in the game contradicts his first appearance in the cartoon. There's also contradictions about the Matrix, Optimus's predecessor, Cybertron's core, the existence of Dark Energon, Trypticon's existence, and numerous other details.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yes, I was also under the impression WFC was linked to G1. Could be wrong though. As for the Unicron trilogy, I always thought there can be a connection made to G1, in the comics. (I prefer the comics to the cartoons for series that had comics) In the end of G2 They were all back on Cybertron, Prime being a truck and Megatron being a big green tank. It doesn't take a lot to fill in the void from there to when Armada begins - with Prime as a truck and Megatron as a big green tank, albeit a bit modified.

It does, actually. If I recall, Armada is supposed to take place in 2010 or something, five years after G1 at most, and yet the Autobots try very hard to keep themselves hidden when, if it were connected to G1, they should have a large base on Earth and several humans in their ranks. Unless there was some kind of mass amnesia, along with a catastrophe that knocked Earth's technology back several years which also demolished Autobot City, it takes quite a lot to fill the gap. And remember, Beast Wars takes place only a few hundred years after G1. (Technically it takes place BEFORE, but you know what I mean)

That and the fact that the G1 TFs where attention whores.

Dead Metal wrote:That and the fact that the G1 TFs where attention whores.

Yeah. Like I said, "Robots in Disguise" was a blatant lie, they never used their alt-modes as disguises and made themselves publicly known as fast as they could.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That and the fact that the G1 TFs where attention whores.

Yeah. Like I said, "Robots in Disguise" was a blatant lie, they never used their alt-modes as disguises and made themselves publicly known as fast as they could.

Yup I just wanted to call them attention whores in this thread since I thought it would be hilarious.
Even the Marvel comic portrait them as such.
The only shows that seemed to take the whole robots in disguise aspect seriously where RID, the Unicron Trilogy and the idw G1 comics.

"Look at me and worship me I'm a giant amazing robot from f**king space and I can turn into a car - THAT'S how awesome I am."

Dead Metal wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That and the fact that the G1 TFs where attention whores.

Yeah. Like I said, "Robots in Disguise" was a blatant lie, they never used their alt-modes as disguises and made themselves publicly known as fast as they could.

Yup I just wanted to call them attention whores in this thread since I thought it would be hilarious.
Even the Marvel comic portrait them as such.
The only shows that seemed to take the whole robots in disguise aspect seriously where RID, the Unicron Trilogy and the idw G1 comics.

"Look at me and worship me I'm a giant amazing robot from f**king space and I can turn into a car - THAT'S how awesome I am."

The new movies did it as well, especially Bumblebee and Alice. Beast Wars and Beast Machines had good excuses for alt-modes, in BW it would protect them from the overabundance of Energon, and in BM the Vehicons had trouble getting a lock on the Maximals' beast modes.

I love Beast Machines and I have stated several times why I think it's the BEST Transformers TV series...ever. And I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

Cyberstrike wrote:I love Beast Machines and I have stated several times why I think it's the BEST Transformers TV series...ever. And I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

Is it the treatment of beloved characters from the previous series? The unnecessary philosophical crap shoved down our throat? The horrible characters and their horrible designs? Come on, you can tell me.

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:I love Beast Machines and I have stated several times why I think it's the BEST Transformers TV series...ever. And I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

Is it the treatment of beloved characters from the previous series? The unnecessary philosophical crap shoved down our throat? The horrible characters and their horrible designs? Come on, you can tell me.

Yeah, I'm curious as well...

As for the G2 to Armada gap, there was never an Autobot City in the comics. The Armada alt modes can be easily seen as upgrades from the end of G2, which I guess isn't the end if you take "Alignment" into consideration, which I don't because I haven't read it. But I would like to.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:I love Beast Machines and I have stated several times why I think it's the BEST Transformers TV series...ever. And I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

Is it the treatment of beloved characters from the previous series? The unnecessary philosophical crap shoved down our throat? The horrible characters and their horrible designs? Come on, you can tell me.

Yeah, I'm curious as well...

As for the G2 to Armada gap, there was never an Autobot City in the comics. The Armada alt modes can be easily seen as upgrades from the end of G2, which I guess isn't the end if you take "Alignment" into consideration, which I don't because I haven't read it. But I would like to.

Yes there was Metroplex even pops out of it at one point.

And at the beginning of Armada the TFs knew nothing of earth, and I think the Humans would remember the Giant alien robots that wreaked their planet .

The same reason why I hated both the 2007 and 2009 movie, because it was "TOO HUMAN!". The only thing that I got out of Beast Machines was they were trying too hard to be human (Well, Mammals in this case). How the hell did they have Megatron come back to Cybertron and wipe the entire history of Cybertron by himself! It would be different if they could somehow come up with a storyline that leads up to him actually being successfull in doing that, but no, they wanted to play on our dumbness and come up with that bullcrap. Actually, I could put the blame on Bob Skir (Who actually wrote Beast Machines and both Transformers movies BTW, along with Alex Kuntnugget and Roberto Orcipuss) Bob Skir, in my own opinion as well as other true G1 fans is a no talent hack who couldn't write directions from Autobot headquarters to Iacon (True G1 fans would get that)! Also, yes I hated Nightscream, Botanica, Obsidian, Strika, Noble/Savage, Thrust, Jetstorm and Tankorr with a passion. None of the characters had any substance or continuity whatsover! They actually ended this series early because of all the hate mail that Hasbro received for the show (Yes, I wrote 5 letters myself). And if you purchased the DVD set, you actually got to witness the interview for Bob Skir and saw how he blamed the whole creative content and storyline on Hasbro. C'mon Bob, Really! grow a set why don't you! Man up to how you screwed up royally on what could have been an awesome continuation of another awesome show (Beast Wars), did you even watch Beast Wars BTW? Here's a clue, It might have helped you write it better. Also, Hasbro is to ultimately blame for Beast Machines being terrible too because they hires Bob Skir and wouldn't let Bob Forward and Larry DiTillo come back to write the series. I have a whole other list of why I hate Beast Machines, but I have to come back later and list them. I have to get back to work.....DP

Plantbots, Go-Bot looking "Vehicons" Techno-organic nonsense. Ratrap with wheelchair wheels, the ending. Horrible, just horrible.

It was not Transformers to me and I really enjoyed Beast Wars.

DraygonPrime wrote:True G1 fans

Okay, you're new here, I get that. So here's an FYI for future endeavors on this site: Don't use those words. "True fans" are impossible to determine. Just because someone likes a series you don't doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

Shadowman wrote:

DraygonPrime wrote:True G1 fans

Okay, you're new here, I get that. So here's an FYI for future endeavors on this site: Don't use those words. "True fans" are impossible to determine. Just because someone likes a series you don't doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

Not necessarily "New", I just finally decided to speak out and sign up. I've been checking this site out for quite some time, as well as others who are Transfans (Is that better!) that just check out the site and laugh at people who point out insignificant quotes like you just did. FAIL!

DraygonPrime wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

DraygonPrime wrote:True G1 fans

Okay, you're new here, I get that. So here's an FYI for future endeavors on this site: Don't use those words. "True fans" are impossible to determine. Just because someone likes a series you don't doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

Not necessarily "New", I just finally decided to speak out and sign up. I've been checking this site out for quite some time, as well as others who are Transfans (Is that better!) that just check out the site and laugh at people who point out insignificant quotes like you just did. FAIL!

Oh I'm just going to enjoy you. Someone tries to explain to you why we don't use a particular phrase around here (Because of the relativity of opinions, the term "true fans" has no meaning whatsoever) and you retort with "fail." Man we haven't had someone like you since the first Movie War.

Shadowman wrote:

DraygonPrime wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

DraygonPrime wrote:True G1 fans

Okay, you're new here, I get that. So here's an FYI for future endeavors on this site: Don't use those words. "True fans" are impossible to determine. Just because someone likes a series you don't doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

Not necessarily "New", I just finally decided to speak out and sign up. I've been checking this site out for quite some time, as well as others who are Transfans (Is that better!) that just check out the site and laugh at people who point out insignificant quotes like you just did. FAIL!

Oh I'm just going to enjoy you. Someone tries to explain to you why we don't use a particular phrase around here (Because of the relativity of opinions, the term "true fans" has no meaning whatsoever) and you retort with "fail." Man we haven't had someone like you since the first Movie War.

I'm just playin Shadowman, stop being so serious. But on a serious note, you were definitely on point with your comments. It's just nice to see once in a while, somebody actually saw and knows G1 like I do. All respect to ya bruh!

DraygonPrime wrote:I'm just playin Shadowman, stop being so serious. But on a serious note, you were definitely on point with your comments.

Aw, and here I was thinking I'd get another proponent of the "true fans" fallacy to play with.

DraygonPrime wrote:It's just nice to see once in a while, somebody actually saw and knows G1 like I do. All respect to ya bruh!

Good news, you'll find those here. Bad news, I'm not one of them. I didn't grow up on G1, I don't see it with nostalgia and I recognize every last problem the show had. I am, in actuality, a Beast Wars fan. (Though I loved Animated and the two new movies, and I'm typing this in between WfC matches, so it's not like I'm always thinking "MUNKY NOT TRUKK" or something)

Shadowman wrote:

DraygonPrime wrote:I'm just playin Shadowman, stop being so serious. But on a serious note, you were definitely on point with your comments.

Aw, and here I was thinking I'd get another proponent of the "true fans" fallacy to play with.

DraygonPrime wrote:It's just nice to see once in a while, somebody actually saw and knows G1 like I do. All respect to ya bruh!

Good news, you'll find those here. Bad news, I'm not one of them. I didn't grow up on G1, I don't see it with nostalgia and I recognize every last problem the show had. I am, in actuality, a Beast Wars fan. (Though I loved Animated and the two new movies, and I'm typing this in between WfC matches, so it's not like I'm always thinking "MUNKY NOT TRUKK" or something)

LOL, that's cool. Actually I just saw your age in your profile and your right. I was 9 when TF G1 came out so yes I do look at it that way. But then again, I loved BW and for some reason Animated too. I couldn't get with the Unicron Trilogy tho, but Cybertron was ok. I remember the movie post and let's just say that I did not like the movies at all. I could have did without all the Sam and Mikayla romance drama. I really thought when I was getting in the line and paid for my ticket to see Transformers, I thought I was going to see a movie about Transformers, both times. I won't make a third mistake with that tho, unless they kick Michael Bay off the set. So let's be real for a minute since you are a huge fan of BW as well as me, Wasn't BM some BS or what?

DraygonPrime wrote:So let's be real for a minute since you are a huge fan of BW as well as me, Wasn't BM some BS or what?

It could have worked had they not stomped all over Beast Wars. In fact, I think the personality changes were my only real problem with the series, but it was just so horrible that it brought everything else down. if they kept the Maximals' (And Megatron's) personalities in-tact, replaced Nightscream and Botanica with less lame characters, and not given Rattrap that horrible wheels-for-legs robot mode, it may have been a really good series.

But they didn't do that, so it was bad.

it was okay in my opinion not as good as Beast Wars though.they didnt have Tigatron that is one reason i did not like it

Dead Metal wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:I love Beast Machines and I have stated several times why I think it's the BEST Transformers TV series...ever. And I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

Is it the treatment of beloved characters from the previous series? The unnecessary philosophical crap shoved down our throat? The horrible characters and their horrible designs? Come on, you can tell me.

Yeah, I'm curious as well...

As for the G2 to Armada gap, there was never an Autobot City in the comics. The Armada alt modes can be easily seen as upgrades from the end of G2, which I guess isn't the end if you take "Alignment" into consideration, which I don't because I haven't read it. But I would like to.

Yes there was Metroplex even pops out of it at one point.

432px-Metroplex-UK.jpg

And at the beginning of Armada the TFs knew nothing of earth, and I think the Humans would remember the Giant alien robots that wreaked their planet .

Hmm...good shot of Metroplex, but that was never in the G2 stuff, unless you're talking about the UK fillers...

As for Armada, yeah I guess you're right about the slate being wiped clean. But it would be a really good concept to somehow bridge those continuities.

The show was terrible and had few redeeming features. The number one complaint you're going to hear is the same beef I have with it. Beast Wars was the most well written series in Transformers bar none. It had a very well developed mythos and a strong sense of character development and focus. They hired brand new writers for Beast Machines and told them not to bother researching Beast Wars. Most think the original plan was going to use an all new cast with Cheetor being the sole returning character. But whether it's true or not the whole "no research" thing showed. Characters were out of character, they made up **** off the top of their heads that conflicted with previous canon, etc.

They ruined Rattrap IMO. He was a hilarous, smart ass, loud mouth, verbally abusive, drunk of a robot. And they pussified him for the sake of political correctness. I was largely indifferent to the rest of the Maximal cast. Except Nightscream. Oh lord how I hated Nightscream. He was the first canon emo kid. He even had the goofy ass asymmetrical hair cut. I mean, how lame are you when you make a kick ass animal like a bat stupid? *shakes his head*

Stuff I did like would be the Vehicons. Specifically the generals. And my favorites were Jetstorm, Thrust, and Obsidian. Although I really dug Strika and Tankor too. I also loved the crazy genocidal twist they gave Megatron. Although I preferred his Xantosian scheming glorious bastard persona from Beast Wars. I think Robo-Hitler was a pretty bold character move for any character, let alone a fan favorite like BW Megs.

The best part of the series? The toyline. It was the best toyline since G2 at that point in time in my opinion, and I really liked the Beast Wars toys. It was just something for everyone. You had the cybernetic animals, you had vehicles, and for Geetooers like me you got Vehicons who looked like they were designed in the hayday of that glorious time period we call Geetoo. To this day the Deluxe Jetstorm mold (and all of it's reuses) is still one of my top 10 favorite Deluxes. Possibly top ten Transformers toys of all time.

like the others have said...

They neutered rattrap, and turned optimal into Preachermus Prime, Turned Black Arachnia into garbage, and added more emo (cheetor got worse, and nightscream).

it had promise and potential (being set on cybertron and no human drama), but it failed on execution.

maybe if they had gone the opposite route and had megatron be all about the organic power and gave the maxi's vehicle modes instead... wait this needs to happen. shattered glass sequel anyone?

Because the designs are putrid crap puke on a stick. I swear I want to throw up every time I see a character's face in Beast Machines!

I never saw this series, and now i don't want to either. I HAVE seen BW though, and it slagging rocks! I was introduced during Armada, and i really like that one.

JetOptimus23 wrote:I never saw this series, and now i don't want to either. I HAVE seen BW though, and it slagging rocks! I was introduced during Armada, and i really like that one.

its worth sittin threw once, if just for completions sake. its just mostly bad, there are a few ok moments. but its in the bottom 4 tf series imho (the unicron trilogy being the bottom 3, and RiD taking 5th place)