The Energon Pub

I have a bit of an issue with Transformers: Prime and with Transformers as a whole. I love Transformers: most of the shows, toys, games, comics, movies, etc. However I've noticed a disturbing trend within Transformers to constantly regurgitate the same stories, ideas, etc. from one series to the next.

Now I do enjoy Transformers: Prime. It is a good show; especially if you've never seen Transformers before in your life. It's definitely a lot better than most of the garbage on TV. However they seem to keep going back to the same ideas from past series, G1 and Beast Wars mostly. Take episode 22 "Faster, Stronger" for example. Transformers has dealt with the whole idea of someone becoming extra powerful/aggressive over and over again. The characters and the way it's administered might have changed but it's the same idea. G1 did it, Beast Wars did it, 3 times in fact. Once with Terrorsaur, once with Rhinox, and once with Optimus Primal.

I'm also concerned with the heavy use of old characters and old villains like Unicron for instance. I understand his importance to the mythos but do we really need another Unicron story? Didn't G1 do it justice? It may not have gone into as much detail as we'd like but we've already been there, done that. The same goes for TF:P's over all premise: Autobots and Decepticons crash on earth after escaping years and years of war on Cybertron. Great: but we've seen it.

TF:WFC the game is interesting because it covers something we never really saw in Transformers, the war before the war you know? TF:P isn't the only series guilty of it. Animated had the same basic premise, the movie trilogy, and even Beast Wars/Beast Machines used a lot of ideas and themes found in G1. The difference was though that Beast Wars and Beast Machines continued G1's story and added something new to it.

I want some good ORIGINAL Transformers adventures. I'd like to see them break the mold a bit you know? TF:P is a good show, don't get me wrong. I just think it's a bit boring sometimes especially when they're doing the same things over and over. I do like that they have some original characters and some that haven't really ever been used. If they keep it up I think it'll get even better.

All I'm saying is Transformers needs to do something different next time in order to stay fresh in my opinion. I mean how long can they keep rehashing G1's over all premise and story? What do you all think?

*****Edit*****
In regards to BeastProwl's post below I figured I'd add something being that he made some good points.

Creativity has never been the issue at all. In fact I applaud Hasbro for constantly figuring out ways to "retell" the same story over and over again and still make the money they do and keep it as popular as it is. Originality IS the issue I have. I would love for something fresh to come along like Beast Wars did back then. That would be wonderful!

Thanks BeastProwl for your observation.

Look back at G1, then come all the way to TF Prime.
Lack of Creativity was never an issue.
Lack of originality on the other hand, might.
Energon, Unicron, Autobots, Decepticons, We get it. In my opinion, hasbro/takara/tomy all need to put their heads together, and bring forward something NEW. Beast wars, back then, was a breath of fresh air. Not to mention RID. RID Intermingled Autobots, Predicons, and later, decepticons as a sub-unit. It was creative, and NO Unicron was needed! No impending galactic doomsday, or anything like that! The whole series, for the most part, was all about stopping megatron/galvatron from harnessing earth's natural recourses, again, the whole, "Harness earth's energon" thing? not that creative, it's been done to death, but RID Exicuted it flawlessly IMO, and the introduction of Fort Max into the whole mix was a good Idea. We need Fresh, New Characters and factions to keep this going.
Personally, I think they should resurrect animated. That was indeed going in an interesting direction, to say the least, and had the makes of a truly epic series, if it was givin it's final run, but it never was. So many Ideas were never capitalized on, and with the movie buzz and all that jazz, it just sort of, faded away.....

The reality is that Hasbro gives the consumer what they want. Beast Wars was ok and Beast Machines sucked but that was a result of trying to go in a different direction. Thinking outside of vehicles. Even in those stories there was little external characters like humans or even civilizations.

They went back to cars on earth and we're eating it up and sales are strong. Realistically, what can you really do with the story? We like real brand name cars that transform into shit-kicking robots. Put the story on a different world for example; what plausable reason is there to transform into a corvette that flies?

As long as they find a way to keep it fresh they'll sell toys.

On a different note, I started watching prime a few days ago and watched Darkness Rising. All in all I thought wow this is an old story in a new wrapper. The thing is-it's a good story and now the writing will and is better than ever. Animation is amazing and hell it's in 5.1 audio! Kids today will need a more sophistcated story without so many plot holes G1 fans looked past. I just wish they had more bots but I guess that costs money when you're doing everyting on computers and each character takes alot to develop. I just wonder what Raf's mom thinks he is doing.

dinojack86 wrote:TF:WFC the game is interesting because it covers something we never really saw in Transformers, the war before the war you know?

Actually, that had already been covered by War Within.

You're right, though, the franchise does default to the basics each time. But you have to consider the opposite: When things do change, utter chaos happens. You should have seen what the initial reaction to the designs for the movie were, it wasn't exactly nice, and that was before we knew anything else about the movies.

Even before that, Armada was criticized for it's Mini-con collection theme, people compared it quite negatively to Pokemon. (Though, by the end of that particular series, no one complained about Mini-cons, instead, we had moved on to all of the other ways Armada was awful) Also Beast Wars, with people decrying the use of animal alt-modes instead of vehicles. (Though, unlike Armada, this ended up being widely regarded as one of, if not the best series in the franchise) Then there's the original example: Season 3 of G1. Though, in that case, it wasn't so much the change in cast as the way they handled the change in cast, that people are still sore about to this day.

Short version: While the series does do the same stuff each time, when it changes too much, the fans get angry.

The big lines shouldn't change too much. They never have. In the previous posts people state BW and BM as examples of change, but that wasn't in the main story. Two factions go at it, never been different.

Comparing themes per episode also isn't a valid way of judging a cartoon. The mentioned themes (becoming stronger, switching sides and so forth) are not juyst TF-related themes, the saturdaymorning cartoon is repeating itself since, well, the start.

Why has this never been a problem then? Simple: there's a new audience who have not seen those themes in a cartoon yet. In twenty years, when they devote an insane amount of time of their adult life to one of those cartoons, they'll see what we see.

Beyond that, maybe the actual point here is that in Prime we don't really see a load of really new faces. It's a compilation of popular characters from previous series. A cast of fresh faces would have been nice.

RhA wrote:Why has this never been a problem then? Simple: there's a new audience who have not seen those themes in a cartoon yet. In twenty years, when they devote an insane amount of time of their adult life to one of those cartoons, they'll see what we see.

That's a good point, actually, and one that a lot of people tend to forget. We're the periphery demographic at most, the shows are meant for the ones who didn't exist when older series did.

RhA wrote:Beyond that, maybe the actual point here is that in Prime we don't really see a load of really new faces. It's a compilation of popular characters from previous series. A cast of fresh faces would have been nice.

It was the same with Animated, which went out of it's way to reuse characters, names, and designs from G1.

Shadowman wrote:

RhA wrote:Why has this never been a problem then? Simple: there's a new audience who have not seen those themes in a cartoon yet. In twenty years, when they devote an insane amount of time of their adult life to one of those cartoons, they'll see what we see.

That's a good point, actually, and one that a lot of people tend to forget. We're the periphery demographic at most, the shows are meant for the ones who didn't exist when older series did.

RhA wrote:Beyond that, maybe the actual point here is that in Prime we don't really see a load of really new faces. It's a compilation of popular characters from previous series. A cast of fresh faces would have been nice.

It was the same with Animated, which went out of it's way to reuse characters, names, and designs from G1.

Indeed. And with that show relatively fresh in memory, Prime feels (at least to me) as a bit of the 'same old, same old'. But again, that's me and hundreds of TF-episodes later.

To answer the thread question in a nutshell: yes and no.

From the ‘no’ perspective: As long as Transformers as a whole is marketed at children, from the wee ones up to the mid-teens, there’s really no practical reason to NOT constantly redo what’s obviously working because you can pretty much count on your target audience to constantly ‘refresh’ itself from the bottom up as long as people keep reproducing. You have to remember that even if you’ve seen it all before, there’s a whole bunch of new potential fans, usually youngsters, discovering Transformers every year, and to them, it IS all original and fresh. Even if each individual’s interest then only lasts five years, from age seven to twelve, say, the franchise will likely still get a good return on its entertainment expenditures—it’s a rare kid, I think, who could resist all the merchandize available, and let’s face it, Transformers stuff does make for easy and convenient gift-giving. So, again, as long as the demand is there and it remains profitable, why WOULD you consider changing the ‘product’? There’s just no incentive to be original. It might even be counter-productive.

From the ‘yes’ perspective: A lack of originality does hurt the Transformers franchise, but only, I believe, insofar as a teensy segment of the older fan base is concerned. I’m probably a typical example of what I’m thinking of here… Once the premise, background ideas and plotlines and characters have been established and explored, I’m not interested in seeing such things reused again unless significant changes are made to the source material. There has to be some ‘hook’ in a remake for it to interest me, some innovative new ideas or style of presentation, new characters, anything, otherwise it always just boils down to the same old ‘seen it!’ for me. That’s why I’m personally indifferent to all but three distinct versions of Transformers and why I’m guessing some other fans are just generally disappointed with the franchise as of late—they’re likewise getting tired of the Cybertronian 'reecycling’ and maybe wish they weren’t. Bottom line here: fewer variants of Transformers enjoyed and gotten ‘into’ = less merchandize ultimately purchased. An economic loss in the long run, true, but only a tiny, inconsequential one.

Ultimate conclusion: As long as it’s all about the money and there’s a fresh audience of kids to entertain (and exploit) every year, I doubt that a lack of originality will ever truly hurt Transformers. As for fans who are annoyed or disappointed by the ‘lack of originality’ (which includes myself), I daresay you’re just going to have to learn to suck it up.

I think it depends.

First it depends on perspective. I found it refreshing to see elements of G1 cartoons repeated in the movies. I never cared for TF Animated and it's influence on the new Prime series is it's biggest flaw. That is my opinion and I have no issues with people disagreeing.

The second thing it depends on is ingenuity. How is the rehashing of old stuff being used? It's one thing to see Megatron toss the Lincoln statue of its chair and sit in it. It's another thing when the events that lead up to it are the same near verbatim. I get tired of cartoons that endlessly repeats the same personality traits from one character to the next.

Third thing is its frequency. How often have I seen this before? How long ago was I saw that last? As mentioned, rehashing the same personality traits for just about every single character is really no originality at all. I speak mostly of Japanese cartoons, and the Japanese cartoons ad-libbed for American tv. I get bored seeing the same personality trait in each character and the same shinanigans over and over.

@BeastProwl: I don't think Animated faded away. I think Hasbro decided it was time to move on. They do that ever couple of years now. Not only do they flood the market w/ 3 or 4 toy lines, they keep each one for like a year or two. I never cared for Animated but from what I've seen of people's responses it had plenty of life in it. Hasbro killed it so they could move on.

Blackstreak wrote:I speak mostly of Japanese cartoons, and the Japanese cartoons ad-libbed for American tv.

I don't know that "ad-libbed" is the right word there, but also I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. If you're talking about anime being translated and redone in English, that would be "dubbing." "Ad-libbing" is where you make up stuff on the spot, as a form of improv.

Blackstreak wrote:@BeastProwl: I don't think Animated faded away. I think Hasbro decided it was time to move on. They do that ever couple of years now. Not only do they flood the market w/ 3 or 4 toy lines, they keep each one for like a year or two. I never cared for Animated but from what I've seen of people's responses it had plenty of life in it. Hasbro killed it so they could move on.

Close, Hasbro ended it despite plans for a fourth season so it didn't divert attention away from Revenge of the Fallen.

These I don't like Prime threads make no sense.

Because the cartoon isn't even done with season one yet. some TF cartoons had a dull first season like beastmachines & armada & winded up bouncing back with a high energy plot filled superb awesome second season.

Saying I hate the TF Prime toy line doesn't make sense either. especially considering the toys aren't even on store shelves yet & won't be till a few months from now.

Even if some TF fans know what the TF Prime wave one toys looks like. that's just wave one. all official sources indicate this will be a full blown toy line.

Please lets show some PATIENCE,Wait till the TF Prime toys & cartoon is done/finished/over before we pass final judgement on it. whether it was good mediocre or horrible in your opinion.

REGARDING the same old. some of us actully like unicron & combiners like myself & we welcome unicron in the TF Prime cartoon series. some of us are wishing another 100% new mold supreme unicron toy & more combiners toys gets made for the TF Prime toy line.

For those of us we actually bothered to watch the TF Prime cartoon series. this TF Prime cartoon is nothing like the 3 TF movie verse stories/chratacters.

Sure I would have preferred a classics/generations styled cartoon/toy line instead. but that's not we got. so theirs no sense getting overly mad & ranting everythere.

most TF cartoons with a toy line attached barely last 18 months. so we might as well wait it out & see what comes next. the average TF fan is over 60 or 70 years of age,so were not going anywhere. the average TF internet fan's age ranges from the 2o's thru the 40's, so we can afford to wait 18 months & see if the next thing we like or not.

Actually people ARE entitled to express their dislike of TF Prime.

Season 1 may not have ended, but there's been enough episodes for people to form THEIR opinions. Same goes with the toys, you don't need to hold something in your hand to say "I don't like the look of that".

I detested the aesthetic of Animated, still do. When pictures first emerged I was extremely put off Animated because of how it looked. I watched it, but my opinion didn't change. I simply could not get past the look of it. It's just not a style I liked.

Will this franchise suffer from lack of originality? In time it will. Sure they can keep rehashing the same old "Autobots -vs- Decepticons, end up on earth searching for some power thingy to tip the balance of the war" blah blah blah ... and as it's aimed at a younger generation who haven't seen previous incarnations it's all well and good.

But realistically, they're playing it safe, they're not taking chances. Kids get bored very quickly these days and you have to stay on the ball to keep their attention. Keep doing the same thing over and over and those kids are going to get bored very quickly.

deathy wrote:These I don't like Prime threads make no sense.

This isn't an anti-Prime thread. This is a very valid question regarding originality in the Transformers franchise.

deathy wrote:Because the cartoon isn't even done with season one yet. some TF cartoons had a dull first season like beastmachines & armada & winded up bouncing back with a high energy plot filled superb awesome second season.

Armada was only one season.

deathy wrote:Saying I hate the TF Prime toy line doesn't make sense either. especially considering the toys aren't even on store shelves yet & won't be till a few months from now.

Even if some TF fans know what the TF Prime wave one toys looks like. that's just wave one. all official sources indicate this will be a full blown toy line.

No one said that they hate the toys.

deathy wrote:Please lets show some PATIENCE,Wait till the TF Prime toys & cartoon is done/finished/over before we pass final judgement on it. whether it was good mediocre or horrible in your opinion.

What's wrong with just reviewing individual episodes?

deathy wrote:REGARDING the same old. some of us actully like unicron & combiners like myself & we welcome unicron in the TF Prime cartoon series. some of us are wishing another 100% new mold supreme unicron toy & more combiners toys gets made for the TF Prime toy line.

For those of us we actually bothered to watch the TF Prime cartoon series. this TF Prime cartoon is nothing like the 3 TF movie verse stories/chratacters.

Sure I would have preferred a classics/generations styled cartoon/toy line instead. but that's not we got. so theirs no sense getting overly mad & ranting everythere.

No one's gotten mad in this thread.

deathy wrote:most TF cartoons with a toy line attached barely last 18 months. so we might as well wait it out & see what comes next. the average TF fan is over 60 or 70 years of age,so were not going anywhere. the average TF internet fan's age ranges from the 2o's thru the 40's, so we can afford to wait 18 months & see if the next thing we like or not.

Over 60 or 70? do you really think the G1 cartoon was watched by mostly 30-40 year olds? No, it was watched by children. Grade school/middle school children. The franchise is only 27 years old.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:These I don't like Prime threads make no sense.

This isn't an anti-Prime thread. This is a very valid question regarding originality in the Transformers franchise.

deathy wrote:Because the cartoon isn't even done with season one yet. some TF cartoons had a dull first season like beastmachines & armada & winded up bouncing back with a high energy plot filled superb awesome second season.

Armada was only one season.

deathy wrote:Saying I hate the TF Prime toy line doesn't make sense either. especially considering the toys aren't even on store shelves yet & won't be till a few months from now.

Even if some TF fans know what the TF Prime wave one toys looks like. that's just wave one. all official sources indicate this will be a full blown toy line.

No one said that they hate the toys.

deathy wrote:Please lets show some PATIENCE,Wait till the TF Prime toys & cartoon is done/finished/over before we pass final judgement on it. whether it was good mediocre or horrible in your opinion.

What's wrong with just reviewing individual episodes?

deathy wrote:REGARDING the same old. some of us actully like unicron & combiners like myself & we welcome unicron in the TF Prime cartoon series. some of us are wishing another 100% new mold supreme unicron toy & more combiners toys gets made for the TF Prime toy line.

For those of us we actually bothered to watch the TF Prime cartoon series. this TF Prime cartoon is nothing like the 3 TF movie verse stories/chratacters.

Sure I would have preferred a classics/generations styled cartoon/toy line instead. but that's not we got. so theirs no sense getting overly mad & ranting everythere.

No one's gotten mad in this thread.

deathy wrote:most TF cartoons with a toy line attached barely last 18 months. so we might as well wait it out & see what comes next. the average TF fan is over 60 or 70 years of age,so were not going anywhere. the average TF internet fan's age ranges from the 2o's thru the 40's, so we can afford to wait 18 months & see if the next thing we like or not.

Over 60 or 70? do you really think the G1 cartoon was watched by mostly 30-40 year olds? No, it was watched by children. Grade school/middle school children. The franchise is only 27 years old.

1-Armada had 52 episodes. season one had 26 episodes & season 2 had 26 episodes. combined it was 2 seasons worth of 52 episodes.

2- My point was were NOT over 60 nor over 70,so were not going anywhere & can afford to wait 18 months till this ends & the next big thing starts.

2-a- I never said the average age of the TF fans were in their 60's nor 70's in age.

deathy wrote:1-Armada had 52 episodes. season one had 26 episodes & season 2 had 26 episodes. combined it was 2 seasons worth of 52 episodes.

It was one season of 52 episodes. There were four 13-episodes story arcs, but only one 52-episode season.

deathy wrote:2-a- I never said the average age of the TF fans were in their 60's nor 70's in age.

deathy wrote:the average TF fan is over 60 or 70 years of age,

Burn wrote:Actually people ARE entitled to express their dislike of TF Prime.

Season 1 may not have ended, but there's been enough episodes for people to form THEIR opinions. Same goes with the toys, you don't need to hold something in your hand to say "I don't like the look of that".

I detested the aesthetic of Animated, still do. When pictures first emerged I was extremely put off Animated because of how it looked. I watched it, but my opinion didn't change. I simply could not get past the look of it. It's just not a style I liked.

Will this franchise suffer from lack of originality? In time it will. Sure they can keep rehashing the same old "Autobots -vs- Decepticons, end up on earth searching for some power thingy to tip the balance of the war" blah blah blah ... and as it's aimed at a younger generation who haven't seen previous incarnations it's all well and good.

But realistically, they're playing it safe, they're not taking chances. Kids get bored very quickly these days and you have to stay on the ball to keep their attention. Keep doing the same thing over and over and those kids are going to get bored very quickly.

Originality will only get you so far. not everything original sells. lately the latest trend seems to be taking everything from the 1980's & bringing it back. like HE-man,G.I Joe,thundercats,Voltron,pund puppies,terminator,smurfs & so forth.

From my stand point Hasbro created the TF prime cartoon series because the 3 TF live action movies made billions in the theathres & on DVD's. the 3 live action TF movie toy lines were the most successful TF toy lines ever & made the most money out of all the other previous TF toy lines. SO WE CAN'T BLAME HASBRO FOR WANTING TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE MOVIE VERSE WITH TF PRIME. as hasbro is all about money & profits.

BURN,Yes I do agree,Hasbro has been playing it safe with the TF Animated & TF Prime toys. Hasbro did take more risk with doing a ALL Beast toy line with beastwars. Hasbro did take more risk & experiment with their gimmicks & creative ideas for armada,energon & cybertron toy lines.

Hasbro may just be playing it safe now & trying to save money because of the downward spiral economy were experiencing right now. perhaps hasbro needs to cut corners everywhere right now to keeo giving us similar product without doubling or trippling the price of each TF toy size. Perhaps their just isn't money their right now to get all creative & bold.

Personally If I had my way. they'd be a whole Transformers cartoons series & toy line built around combiners. everything in the toy line would combine with some & merge with something else. example: optimus,bumblebee,rathct,sunstreaker & jetfire would be the 5 core autobots in the cartoon & they's merge to form a combiner. the 5 core decepticons like megatron,starscream,ravage,wildrider & tidalwave will merge to form a combiner. the minicons would connect to ports on the bigger robots. the basics sized toys would be combiner limbs or weapons. the deluxe,voyager,ultra & leader sized toys would be combiners. they'd be 2 base/city transformers that act cities & smaller bots like basics or deluxes would transform into armor or weapons for the city bots to use.

deathy wrote:
Personally If I had my way. they'd be a whole Transformers cartoons series & toy line built around combiners. everything in the toy line would combine with some & merge with something else. example: optimus,bumblebee,rathct,sunstreaker & jetfire would be the 5 core autobots in the cartoon & they's merge to form a combiner. the 5 core decepticons like megatron,starscream,ravage,wildrider & tidalwave will merge to form a combiner. the minicons would connect to ports on the bigger robots. the basics sized toys would be combiner limbs or weapons. the deluxe,voyager,ultra & leader sized toys would be combiners. they'd be 2 base/city transformers that act cities & smaller bots like basics or deluxes would transform into armor or weapons for the city bots to use.

So you basically want a cross between Armada mcdonald's toys and power rangers?

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:.

deathy wrote:2-a- I never said the average age of the TF fans were in their 60's nor 70's in age.

deathy wrote:the average TF fan is over 60 or 70 years of age,

Sorry sometimes I type really fast & don't re-read my stuff before I hit the send button.

that "IS" was suspose to be written by me as the word "ISN'T"

Sorry about all the confusion.

The thing is, they don't need to play it 150% safe.

They could ride the success of the movies and EXPAND the universe instead of continuing to centre it around the same core group of characters.

EXPAND the universe, introduce new characters, make them the central focal point and have the current core group as background characters, let them interact now and then, but put the focus on other characters.

It allows Hasbro to easily retain their trademarks as well as produce toys for the core group of characters, but it allows them to expand, to bring in new characters, a chance to try something different.

Remember the days of G1 and Beast Wars when there were a lot more toys produced than what were given characterisation in the cartoon? (Yes I realise a lot of them have since received characterisation via comics) Similar to that only they get the toys AND the characters.

And if they're worried about creating new characters being too much work ... then cut back on the gimmicks. Keep them simple. Toys that transform from one thing to another, no need for keys or other little figures that unlock special features, no need for big bulky weapons that do nothing other than they're big and bulky, just keep it simple, take it back to the basics while expanding the universe.

BeastProwl wrote:

deathy wrote:
Personally If I had my way. they'd be a whole Transformers cartoons series & toy line built around combiners. everything in the toy line would combine with some & merge with something else. example: optimus,bumblebee,rathct,sunstreaker & jetfire would be the 5 core autobots in the cartoon & they's merge to form a combiner. the 5 core decepticons like megatron,starscream,ravage,wildrider & tidalwave will merge to form a combiner. the minicons would connect to ports on the bigger robots. the basics sized toys would be combiner limbs or weapons. the deluxe,voyager,ultra & leader sized toys would be combiners. they'd be 2 base/city transformers that act cities & smaller bots like basics or deluxes would transform into armor or weapons for the city bots to use.

So you basically want a cross between Armada mcdonald's toys and power rangers?

I can understand the power rangers part. as my idea was centered around all the TF toys combining.

but where'd u get Mcdonalds armada from? non of those toys combined with each others.

Burn wrote:The thing is, they don't need to play it 150% safe.

They could ride the success of the movies and EXPAND the universe instead of continuing to centre it around the same core group of characters.

EXPAND the universe, introduce new characters, make them the central focal point and have the current core group as background characters, let them interact now and then, but put the focus on other characters.

It allows Hasbro to easily retain their trademarks as well as produce toys for the core group of characters, but it allows them to expand, to bring in new characters, a chance to try something different.

But they have expanded the Movieverse with the comics, video games, Cyber Missions, etc.

Burn wrote:Remember the days of G1 and Beast Wars when there were a lot more toys produced than what were given characterisation in the cartoon? (Yes I realise a lot of them have since received characterisation via comics) Similar to that only they get the toys AND the characters.

But what's wrong with using comics as the medium of expansion? A lot of times, comics can do things that movies/cartoons can't do. Just look at the G1 cartoon vs. the Marvel comics. Marvel G1 had a solid overarching story with a richer history and wider cast of characters than the cartoon had.

deathy wrote:but where'd u get Mcdonalds armada from? non of those toys combined with each others.

Yes the do.

Burn wrote:The thing is, they don't need to play it 150% safe.

They could ride the success of the movies and EXPAND the universe instead of continuing to centre it around the same core group of characters.

EXPAND the universe, introduce new characters, make them the central focal point and have the current core group as background characters, let them interact now and then, but put the focus on other characters.

It allows Hasbro to easily retain their trademarks as well as produce toys for the core group of characters, but it allows them to expand, to bring in new characters, a chance to try something different.

Remember the days of G1 and Beast Wars when there were a lot more toys produced than what were given characterisation in the cartoon? (Yes I realise a lot of them have since received characterisation via comics) Similar to that only they get the toys AND the characters.

And if they're worried about creating new characters being too much work ... then cut back on the gimmicks. Keep them simple. Toys that transform from one thing to another, no need for keys or other little figures that unlock special features, no need for big bulky weapons that do nothing other than they're big and bulky, just keep it simple, take it back to the basics while expanding the universe.

BURN,I agree with a lot of stuff your saying & have even felt the same way.

From my stand point. If hasbro is playing it safe because of the downward spiral econmy,cutting corners & such. then why are they cutting corners but STILL giving us two to four different TF toy lines in 2011 thru 2012. if money is tight & hasbro is cutting corners,then why spend money you don't have on rescue bots,kre-o,classics,prime & dotm in under a 18 month time frame.

wouldn't it just be wiser to get rid of everything & just FOCUS all your money,time,energy,man power on one Singular thing for the TF toy line. Example a full blown generations/or whatever styled cartoon with a attached cartoon series.

instead of making five heavily inferior TF toy lines with tons of cuts backs & short cuts. why not make one singular TF toy line with cartoon eith no cut backs with tons of budget money to use.

Burn,some of the stuff your saying I don't understand what your referring to. the movie verse & TF Prime did/are giving us brand new characters with different persona's. Sure the names are recycled from the past but their clearly different persona's.

what the difference in calling a new persona by a new name or a old name? why create a new name, when hasbro can please the veteran fan base by using a older name. why the the risk in letting another company steal your names when you can re-use them on newer persona characters & keep your names.

if a kid is young they won't care nor know a older name is being recycled for a newer persona character.

most veteran fans don't care about older names being recycled for newer persona chartacters. because it makes the fans feel they matter a bit more in hasbro's eyes. by doing all these obvious fan catered to homages.

Sabrblade wrote:

Burn wrote:

deathy wrote:but where'd u get Mcdonalds armada from? non of those toys combined with each others.

Yes the do.

Neither,Mc donalds nor hasbro ever documented these as combiners in their advertisement nor instructions.

most of the hidden fan modes or creations the fans find/create are be considered Un-official. thus they don't count in the companies & some fans eyes.

deathy wrote:Originality will only get you so far. not everything original sells. lately the latest trend seems to be taking everything from the 1980's & bringing it back. like HE-man,G.I Joe,thundercats,Voltron,pund puppies,terminator,smurfs & so forth.

They haven't brought back He-Man yet outside of a new toyline, and Terminator isn't an 80s-specific franchise. (Only the first movie was released in the 80s, T2 was released in the early '90s, and T3 and Salvation were both released in the past decade) So while the '80s are coming back, they've still got a ways to go.

deathy wrote:Personally If I had my way. they'd be a whole Transformers cartoons series & toy line built around combiners. everything in the toy line would combine with some & merge with something else.

That was called Energon. Everyone was a combiner, usually composed of two bots, though Optimus combined with several drones Power Rangers-style. I never liked that idea. With subgroups it's okay, but having everyone combine just means you have less characters to work with during action scenes; less action, less witty combat banter, just less in general.

I had an idea, reading this thread, it's still Autobots vs. Decepticons, but with a twist; now it's set a good 500 years in the future. Humanity has mastered space flight and has a decent number of colonies, and has interacted with a good number of alien species, but Cybertron has remained isolationist until recently, realizing they need to branch out to, as usual, collect Energon, though they keep hiding themselves because of that isolationism. (By turning into, you guessed it, a variety of vehicles) This allows for not only futuristic vehicles (Like WfC or War Within), but allows for interaction with more species and civilizations than just humans, along with visiting a variety of planets that aren't Earth or Cybertron. So it not only enhances the science fiction aspect, but also adds in a theme of exploration and interaction.

Short version: Star Trek, but with Transformers.

deathy wrote:Neither,Mc donalds nor hasbro ever documented these as combiners in their advertisement nor instructions.

most of the hidden fan modes or creations the fans find/create are be considered Un-official. thus they don't count in the companies & some fans eyes.

These ARE official modes, not fanmade.

Shadowman wrote:Short version: Star Trek, but with Transformers.

That happened. It was called "Beast Wars Neo".

Shadowman wrote:I had an idea, reading this thread, it's still Autobots vs. Decepticons, but with a twist; now it's set a good 500 years in the future. Humanity has mastered space flight and has a decent number of colonies, and has interacted with a good number of alien species, but Cybertron has remained isolationist until recently, realizing they need to branch out to, as usual, collect Energon, though they keep hiding themselves because of that isolationism. (By turning into, you guessed it, a variety of vehicles) This allows for not only futuristic vehicles (Like WfC or War Within), but allows for interaction with more species and civilizations than just humans, along with visiting a variety of planets that aren't Earth or Cybertron. So it not only enhances the science fiction aspect, but also adds in a theme of exploration and interaction.

Short version: Star Trek, but with Transformers.

And what if the whole thing starts out with the Humans (finaly) Discovering Cybertron? fun fun...