Question about Armor

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Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:14 pm

Just out of curiosity is there any difference between Trythilium-steel and Nucleon Tempered Steel? Normally time is a factor between types (Longer typically ends up being better), however in this case they are the same time. I've seen some of the old data about certain armors being better for absorption of physical damage vs energy weapons. I would test the armor, however I am trying to conserve my energon for a few upgrades in the near future, so any help would help.

Thanks
Last edited by _Anshin_ on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby alldarker » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:46 am

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I don't have the answer to your question, but if you need a bit of extra Energon to research this, I'd be happy to invest in return for a little extra knowledge about armor.

Actually, related to this same topic: what is more effective to invest points in: Rank + appropriate armor or Endurance? Have you been able to do any research into that question?
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Zordon » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:50 am

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don't worry about energon i have 10 million to give away, going to send over a million to you anshin so you can run all the testing you need to
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:26 am

alldarker wrote:I don't have the answer to your question, but if you need a bit of extra Energon to research this, I'd be happy to invest in return for a little extra knowledge about armor.

Actually, related to this same topic: what is more effective to invest points in: Rank + appropriate armor or Endurance? Have you been able to do any research into that question?


Thanks, I may take you up on the Energon bit.

Take this with a grain of salt as I have rocketed my three test subjects up in the past two months (LVL 3 to 6 and LVL 3 to 5).

At early levels (0-4) I can safely say this End > Rank+Armor.
I tested with 0 end, 0 rank (lvl 0-3). I then applied Endurance up to 3 and Rank up to 3 combinations. My findings is that Endurance will mitigate some damage from basic damage and reduce tactics much more. Going up against NV (or AD for you cons) you will find this pays off more than the basic melee damage that armor reduces.

With that said and done I can say this about armor:
Aluminum is better than nothing... but slightly
Iron is King at 0.
Ceramic I didn't notice much change for damage from Iron
Steel I saw small changes but honestly it was so random that I would say stay with Iron
Carbon Fiber is better than Iron, but I seem to get random damage spikes from higher physical attacks. Again random and build were not taken into account looking back at my spreadsheets, so say taking damage from Sustain (Speed/CRG builds) vs Burn (Strength/CRG) builds may have a lot to do with it.

Duranium: This is the final armor I stuck with before I abandoned armor for End boosts. It pretty much gave me over all better damage reductions (IE Less random occurrences of a greater reduction on this fight and a lesser there).

Again, I admit to making mistakes in data collection such as not counting weapons or stat levels from the cons tearing me apart.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:01 am

Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby The Potentate » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:23 am

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_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby steve2275 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:28 am

Motto: "it may not get better
but it wont get any worse"
The Potentate wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
not with a messed up arena you cant
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby The Potentate » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:30 am

Motto: "I shot J.R."
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steve2275 wrote:
The Potentate wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
not with a messed up arena you cant


That would pose a slight problem.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:32 am

steve2275 wrote:
The Potentate wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
not with a messed up arena you cant

Forgive my ignorance, but what is messed up with the arena right now?
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Phaze » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:52 am

Motto: ""All's Fair in Life and Death""
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_Anshin_ wrote:
steve2275 wrote:
The Potentate wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
not with a messed up arena you cant

Forgive my ignorance, but what is messed up with the arena right now?

Same thing as was messed up with the missions pinky they ain't showing the right results
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Re: Question about ArmoUr

Postby Psychout » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:36 am

Motto: "This post clearly was meant to offend, and if you are affected by it in any way please close your browser and discuss it with someone who knows not to take the internet seriously."
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_Anshin_ wrote:
steve2275 wrote:
The Potentate wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:Question is now. To get accurate readings I would need to have a con that is level 2-3 that is willing to spend about 2 weeks with poor XP gains and meet me in the Arena for about 20 matches for each level of armor.



i could do that with rump roast.
not with a messed up arena you cant

Forgive my ignorance, but what is messed up with the arena right now?


Results don't show correctly in the arena. Although props to those who didn't already know that as they have never been near the arena - you guys are the cool kids.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:39 am

Eh... Don't think I've been in an arena fight since April or May
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Psychout » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:41 am

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That almost makes you one of the cool kids.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:43 am

I've seen what you guys consider the cool kids. I think I am ok with not being one of them. =P~
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:47 am

By the way.. no queen's English spelling for me.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Psychout » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:56 pm

Motto: "This post clearly was meant to offend, and if you are affected by it in any way please close your browser and discuss it with someone who knows not to take the internet seriously."
Weapon: Black Magic
_Anshin_ wrote:By the way.. no queen's English spelling for me.

Bloody ingrate colonists. If it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking French.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:02 pm

Psychout wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:By the way.. no queen's English spelling for me.

Bloody ingrate colonists. If it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking French.

And if it wasn't for us you would be speaking German
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby alldarker » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:40 pm

Motto: "Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"
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So... What exactly is this 'Arena' all you guys are talking about?

Anyhoo... _Anshin_, if you need Energon, just let me know... I've got rather a lot of it. And thanks for the low level armor breakdown. Hope you can get results for the higher level armors too, in due time!
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:45 pm

No I am set for Energon. I had a nice donation today, however I don't know if I am going to be able to get a valid break down of armor any time soon. What I may do is put 10 tons of type one on my bot, put him into a fight and only record the damage from 3 cons, after two weeks or 20 fights each, drop the armor and pick up the other set and see if there is any damage difference.

If the Arena gets fixed soon then I toss my low levels into the pit and hammer out the entire spectrum in a few weeks of testing.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Phaze » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:33 pm

Motto: ""All's Fair in Life and Death""
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_Anshin_ wrote:
Psychout wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote:By the way.. no queen's English spelling for me.

Bloody ingrate colonists. If it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking French.

And if it wasn't for us you would be speaking German

A common misconception you lent us ships which we've been paying off in weekly installments. The Battle of britain put an end to any invasion of britain. mind you according to psyke i live in france or according to most americans i live in west virgina :lol:
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby steve2275 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:41 am

Motto: "it may not get better
but it wont get any worse"
Trythilium-steel
Nucleon Tempered Steel

i wanna know which one of those is better
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:01 am

After a month of testing and with N_V's help I have come up with solid numbers for all of the armors from 0 through 5.

YMMV, but so far this is what I have seen in my test:

Armor does not really stop or reduce tactic (Ram/Strafe) damage till about rank 4. They do reduce the HIT (Both weapon and physical) damage differently.


Iron is the best till rank 2. While you can use steel or ceramic, the reduction at 10 tons is minimally gained (less than 1% at most times). Granted if you are in an arena match vs somebody that does not have 10 strength and any points invested into a skill/firepower weapon it may make a difference, but since the Arena is not working right now I can't answer that question. Giving numbers for the armor reduction in damage can only be given for specific weapons, physical (fist/kick), or general damage. All attackers on N_V's team had a strength of 10, so again going up against somebody that was using a proton pack with a strength of 3 or a physical attack with a strength of 5 may at times have a greater reduction value.

Duranium was a substantial 8% gain over the Iron reduction (3-5%).

Again, 3 was a useless waste of Armor. You gain about 2% reduction from Duranium but that was rarely seen in the crushing damage.

Rank 4 was a notice in tactic damage. This was thrown out and disregarded due to RNG and the numbers are not there to fully support that this is where reduction can be seen.

Big comparision:
Trythilium-steel €5,000 €3,900 50 min 5
Nucleon Tempered Steel €5,000 €1,500 50 min 5

Trythilium-Steel is a huge jump from Duranium.
Hit Average on Duranium: 21 (High of 32, low of 13)
Ram Average on Duranium: 30 (High of 42, low of 9)
Strafe Average on Duranium: 12 (High of 28, low of 6)

Trythilium however:
Hit Average on Trythilium-Steel: 15 (High of 25, low of 11)
Ram Average on Trythilium-Steel: 30 (High of 40, low of 12)
Strafe Average on Trythilium-Steel: 12 (High of 24, low of 5)

Nucleon is the obvious winner:

Hit Average on Nucleon-Steel: 11 (High of 20, low of 1)
Ram Average on Nucleon-Steel: 27 (High of 36, low of 9)
Strafe Average on Nucleon-Steel: 10 (High of 27, low of 1)

As a note:
Steel does better against physical damage
Physical Hit Average: 12 (High of 16, Low of 11)
Weapon Hit Average: 18 (High of 25, Low of 13)

Nucleon does better against Weapon:
Physical Hit Average: 14 (High of 20, Low of 9)
Weapon Hit Average: 9 (High of 15, Low of 1)

Again, Thank you to NV for all of the help with the compiling. Now all I need is help getting XP and I can test the next 5.
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Name_Violation » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:06 pm

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I'm pretty sure the expensive rank 5 armor is as good/better than rank 6 armors. Rnk 6-7 doesnt have a real noticeable difference. Rnk 8 is better than the others, but not by very much
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby _Anshin_ » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:23 pm

Name_Violation wrote:I'm pretty sure the expensive rank 5 armor is as good/better than rank 6 armors. Rnk 6-7 doesnt have a real noticeable difference. Rnk 8 is better than the others, but not by very much


Well I'm not going to lie. I am interested to try out the Nano-Regenerative / Cybertitanium against you.
Honestly I know it doesn't work like that, but it would be nice if Nano-Regen also reduced CR time/costs.

Still... Nothing better than sitting down with a spreadsheet and crunching numbers right?
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Re: Question about Armor

Postby Burn » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:43 pm

_Anshin_ wrote:Still... Nothing better than sitting down with a spreadsheet and crunching numbers right?


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