The Energon Pub

Hate to bump this, but a poster on another board brought up an interesting point:

Good point, but at least in the first one it's more like it could happen. In the second it all just seemed so much more hokier... I know, I know, I'm treading on kind of thin ice here. But I guess from my perspective, it just seemed like the first one seemed to be much more real, and the movie honestly drew me in because of it. It's kind of like the difference between Terminator 1 & 2 vs. 3 & 4. Terminator was so much cooler when it seemed like it could be happening right now! Or right then... I think you get the point. :p

I'll probably end up enjoying the third one for what it will end up being... action and bombs and crap blowing up, i.e., mindless 2-1/2 stuff involving robots blowing stuff up. I just hope it ends up making more sense than the 2nd.

I normally agree with this poster, but this is one time I must disagree.

Yes, the first movie went for realism, and it succeeded because it was BORING.
Yes, the second movie went for the fantastical, and it succeeded because it was FUN AND ENTERTAINING.

Most of us grew up on G1. Most of know how silly the plots were, how silly Megatron's plans were, and how ridiculously awesome it would be to have a giant death ray o' doom or some such nonsensical weapon of destruction. It was that very material that entertained us and made us see the villains as crazed psychos and the heroes as self sacrificial awesome people.

The first movie went in reverse of that. It took what we see on a daily basis (war, soldiers), took a slice of reality and forced it into our fantasy. And in doing so, since we already know who's good and bad, rehashing it the way it was done, took out all of the fun and gave us a heavy dose of bland.

I'm all for realism in these movies, as much as possible, but within reason. If you start to take out all of the fantastical (and a giant sun eating cannon underneath the great pyramid at Giza qualifies as fantastical, and people wanted it excised), and make it too real, make it too dark, make it too Dreamwave, make it too "Oh, I've seen crap like this on CNN* and SyFy**. Pass." it's going to bore, and guess what? IT DID.

*(war, soldiers)
**(crapfest movies that make you cringe)

The one thing the first movie got right was the sense of wonder when you see Optimus Prime for the first time. After that? The movie went back to as much realism as possible, as much boring content as possible, and was just a lackluster movie all the way around.

The second movie aimed right for the fantastical, while staying grounded in reality. And it worked, and the box office receipts prove it.

It was said in another thread, here, that the people who tend to enjoy the second film, tend to show a higher I.Q. and more smarts. Well, I can neither confirm, nor deny that because I just don't have any facts or figures to back it up, but I'm starting to wonder if it's true.

I think the brainiacs (and that's not a dig, honest) do enjoy the movie more because they can appreciate the depth of what's going on, the seriousness being touted, and still embrace the outlandish silliness that's always been intended. And they enjoy it because it's a nice balance of everything.

Now people will mention Roger Ebert's review of the movie, and how he outright attacked us and our mental capacities, and our taste (though it should be mentioned that he was attacked first, but he was completely unprofessional about it, and he's our elder and he should've taken the high road, while maintaining his negative viewpoint towards the film...)

And they'll say "He's clearly an intelligent man, educated and respected." and it's true, he is. Problem is, he's buried himself so deep down into that persona, that he can't get away from it and it's warped his view of the movie world and caused him to voice opinions that are very clearly WRONG.

He not only panned Beverly Hills Cop (the original, not the sequels), but he gave it two thumbs down, and then some. Yet, we all know that BHC is revered as a comedy classic, and one of Jerry Bruckheimer's biggest hits. Ever. It helped solidify Eddie Murphy's star status (and it was well deserved), and it holds a high percentage at Rotten Tomatoes. Yet, he disliked it greatly.

Are you going to seriously tell me that he's right and that all of the millions of fans over the years and the box office receipts are wrong? C'mon. No one's that delusional. You may dislike the movie, you may agree with his opinion, but you can't deny the fact that it was a critical and monetary hit. The numbers of sales and positive critics don't lie. That's a fact you'll just have to deal with.

Well, the same thing applies to ROTF. The critics didn't like it, true, but the box office was insanely large for a TransFormers movie, not to mention the fact that it's a SEQUEL and they rarely ever do better than the first, or even come close to the take of the first.

Are you going to tell me that all of those people were wrong? If you do, you've no respect for your fellow man, and you're basically calling them liars. "Nah, they didn't really enjoy the movie. It was too stupid for anyone to like. I should know, I didn't like it, and I like movies!" No. That's your opinion, that's not a fact. Facts back up my opinion, and my opinion is that it was embraced by the audience, and far more than the first movie was, to boot.

I still don't understand how so many people can embrace G1, and say "Now, that's when TransFormers was TransFormers, none of this in name only crap." and ROTF was the big screen version of G1, really.

Unless, of course, you're starting to grow up and grow old, and none of TransFormers anything holds any enchantment for you any more. I'm starting to think this is the problem, honestly.

I see plenty of posters (on various boards, not this one though) have sales where they say they're getting out of TFs and everything must go, or intense blanketing negative opinions on the toys, shows, movies, designs, games, etc. Obviously, these folks aren't happy with being a fan of these any more, and that's their right, but why suffer through it? Why not just quit and be done with it? Why must you constantly voice your opinion and make it suck for the rest of us?

If you simply don't like it, that's fine. If you feel a need to state it, that's fine. If you must piss on the property as a whole, and feel a need to constantly remind us that you hate it, that's not fine.

It's just flat out wrong. Just because the happiness was sucked down the drain for you, doesn't give you the right to make sure others feel the way you do. Voice your opinion and be done with it, like you've promised you are. Don't keep beating a dead horse and offending your fellow (and soon to be ex) fandomites just because it makes you feel better.

So you grew up and grew old, whoopity friggin' doo. Welcome to Boring Adulthood Land, Population: YOU. No one's going to move into the community with you, or at least not because you want them to. Ruin it for yourself, don't be so selfish as to ruin it for all.

One last time: ROTF was meant to be fun, fantastical, unrealistic, escapist adventure. It's not meant to be completely serious, realistic, and boring. Neither is TF as a whole. If you remove the fantasy, if you make them boring, then you don't truly have TransFormers. You have a horrible facsimile thereof.

I'll keep the real deal, enjoyable, silly, action packed, escapist entertainment that TransFormers was always meant to be.

Realistic? Sure, but just be reasonable. Don't suck the life out of it.

It's like I said earlier, hating the movie and Bay has become the cool thing to do. So in order to be cooler than everyone these people have to hate the movie more than the next guy. Most of them secretly love the movie, but are too weak willed to admit it.

As for Ebert, he's got a big ego for someone who liked Cloverfield.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:As for Ebert, he's got a big ego for someone who liked Cloverfield.

That is the statement of the year, right there. It is deserving of an award!

I really dont know why so many people didnt like ROTF. I for one really liked it!!. and people think that optimus went " psycho " in ROTF........i like him goin psycho on the con's. Sure there was some....." odd " parts ( and by that i mean the dog's.....and how does a robot cry??? ). So to me it was an epic movie.....oh and optimus was kinda goin psycho in the forest but he was also protecting sam.......ever thought of that??? Well anyway my point is that ROTF isnt a bad movie to me maybe to you people but to me its an epic movie.

I love ROTF.
I do get annoyed my certain things that you notice every single time you watch especially the opening with the tiger, tribe amd sunharvester in the same p;ace! (anybody else ever notice the cord that a lure is being pulled on so the tiger chases it too!)

Ever since being a kid watching G1 cartoons with my brother, I have wanted to see it in real life (live action, whatever). ROTF does this for me perfectly.

Giant robot kicking the crap out of each other. Spot on.

Autobot032 wrote:Hate to bump this, but a poster on another board brought up an interesting point:

Good point, but at least in the first one it's more like it could happen. In the second it all just seemed so much more hokier... I know, I know, I'm treading on kind of thin ice here. But I guess from my perspective, it just seemed like the first one seemed to be much more real, and the movie honestly drew me in because of it. It's kind of like the difference between Terminator 1 & 2 vs. 3 & 4. Terminator was so much cooler when it seemed like it could be happening right now! Or right then... I think you get the point. :p

I'll probably end up enjoying the third one for what it will end up being... action and bombs and crap blowing up, i.e., mindless 2-1/2 stuff involving robots blowing stuff up. I just hope it ends up making more sense than the 2nd.

I normally agree with this poster, but this is one time I must disagree.

Yes, the first movie went for realism, and it succeeded because it was BORING.
Yes, the second movie went for the fantastical, and it succeeded because it was FUN AND ENTERTAINING.

I don't really see how the first one was boring, it lacked robots, but I liked it alot more than the second...
More robots would've improved it though...

zenosaurus_x wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hate to bump this, but a poster on another board brought up an interesting point:

Good point, but at least in the first one it's more like it could happen. In the second it all just seemed so much more hokier... I know, I know, I'm treading on kind of thin ice here. But I guess from my perspective, it just seemed like the first one seemed to be much more real, and the movie honestly drew me in because of it. It's kind of like the difference between Terminator 1 & 2 vs. 3 & 4. Terminator was so much cooler when it seemed like it could be happening right now! Or right then... I think you get the point. :p

I'll probably end up enjoying the third one for what it will end up being... action and bombs and crap blowing up, i.e., mindless 2-1/2 stuff involving robots blowing stuff up. I just hope it ends up making more sense than the 2nd.

I normally agree with this poster, but this is one time I must disagree.

Yes, the first movie went for realism, and it succeeded because it was BORING.
Yes, the second movie went for the fantastical, and it succeeded because it was FUN AND ENTERTAINING.

I don't really see how the first one was boring, it lacked robots, but I liked it alot more than the second...
More robots would've improved it though...

It was incredibly boring. Yes, more robots would've helped, but not by much. They focused entirely too much on Sam and the soldiers in a movie about TransFormers. I realize they needed us to connect with the human cast, but we spent so much time focusing on them, that the Autobots and Decepticons felt tacked on, rather than an integral part of the film. They didn't show up until about 55 minutes into the film. That's a long, long time to have a movie about TFs without them in it.

Frenzy was great, don't get me wrong, but he can't carry an entire film by himself, and he certainly couldn't even carry the first half of the movie all by himself. Blackout's appearance was shortlived and wasn't what we had hoped. Bumblebee and Barricade showed themselves but the camera work was so jittery that you couldn't enjoy the battle.

I fail to see how that's entertaining.

The second movie had a nice balance of human to robot interaction, the pace was faster so you didn't feel like it was lagging, the action was better, the camera work was a masterpiece compared to the first one, and it was silly over the top fun.

How on Earth can the first film be considered better than the second when it lacked the title characters for a large portion of it's screen time?

The story wasn't handled well either. Sam could've gotten his first car, have it turn out to be Bumblebee, get involved in the intergalactic war, but still have an E.T. feel to it. It had a sense of awe when you see Optimus and the Autobots transform for the first time (but you see a good portion of that scene in the trailers, so the movie didn't expand on it much), but beyond that, it was frenetic camera work, insane explosions (which I didn't mind), slow as molasses story telling, had a non existent plot (glasses? eBay? the cube? really?), and it lacked what it really needed: Spielberg's touch. His name was attached to it, but it didn't have any of his artistry, which is he is well known for.

If anyone can make your jaw drop, it's Spielberg.

Granted, he didn't do much with ROTF other than be a name on the credits, but Bay and Ehren Kruger saved the film from the shoddy writing of Orci and Kurtzman. The film worked a lot better than the first, and I still come back to the box office. It was a bonafide hit. Simple as that.

Please don't crucify me but I fall in the group of loving this movie without skipping scenes. I do agree there was ALOT of filler here and there.

The parents were great because parents are necessary when you're showing a young person take that step into adulthood but did we REALLY need to see mom high? Not really but it was a good quick laugh. The twins cracked me up cause I'm always telling people you gotta blend in like a ninja. And what friends don't call one another a p*ssy at some point in time?! lol I agree also, why does it take, what like 7 or more Primes to weaken the Fallen but ONE Optimus to destroy him while only losing 1 of his jet engines?! And why didn't Ironhide whoop some ass on Demolisher in Shanghai? Optimus had to be airdropped AND transform twice and got to him fast than 'Hide did. I REALLY hope by TF3, Ironhide and Rachet get to do something other than stand around. As a weapons expert, Ironhide sure doesn't do sh!t!!!! lol

Now the movie was very much excellent and really good considering strikes and all. I recall jumping and turning at the sight of the Fallen in the beginning and telling my brother who he was. Seeing robots without traditional feet was pretty cool from Demolisher and Sideswipe to the Arcee gals. Seeing the carrier jets hangar open with Optimus fully lit up then he drives out and very dramatically transforms in midair then unleashes his Autobot chutes, lands then drops back down into truck mode.

The forest battle speaks for itself in my opinion. Yeah Prime had a killer's mentality but it was to protect his friend! I have the score on my Ipod and when I listen to it, I still feel a swell of emotions when he rises from his knees, swords pulled, and states he clearly not afraid to be in an unfairly sided fight. And at 29 at the time, I can admit very honestly, that when Megs stuck his sword through Prime's chest, I gasped and felt like I got punched in the heart! Knowing my TF history like I do, I knew that it wouldn't be long before he returned, but still, I was 6 in the theater opening weekend when Prime went black/grey on that table in TF:TM. The emotional struggle that Sam goes through that there is no Prime now because of him really was something that I think a lot of people relate to in some way. And I can't explain my wave of emotions when that Matrix was shoved into his chest and he was restored, then of course, cue dramatic score and you've got a nearly 30 year old wishing his preteen boys weren't around so he could think about shedding a tear or two. lol Megatron was in fact kind of whimpish but didn't about EVERY g1 episode end in Megs shouting "decepticons retreat!!!" Those guys ran with their tails tucked every episode but why would it be such a bigger deal they do it in this instance? Starscream still seems very sniveling and it just seems like he's biting his tongue at times when Megs talks. I was a bit confused by the Megatron/Fallen aspect comparing it to Vader/Emperor of Star Wars. Vader too was totally powerful yet he kneeled to Palpatine. Why would Megs tell SS there is no command but mine then kneel before Fallen and call him Master?! weird!

Yeah the story had some problems to it but didn't all episodes of the Unicron trilogy?! Most of us watched them I believe despite its shortcomings. How many episodes of TFA did we all sit through waiting for a Decepticon to show after Starscream left in the opening episodes before we finally got one?! I count like 6 or 7 and we hung in there. As for me, give me Transformers and I'll give you my attention then my money for dvd's and toys. I have been really focusing on the stuff being posted about TF3's shooting and almost fainted when I saw the trailer behind Prime not to mention it had the G1 zigzag on the side of it. I know I'll be watching "Prime" on the Hub when it debuts and waiting in anticipation of next summer's sure-to-be blockbuster.

On one final note, I'd just like to say hello to all fellow fans here! I don't post often and when I do it's mostly in the sightings forum for Indiana. But I will say after reading the comments by everyone here, I definitely felt compelled to share my own thoughts on ROTF. Look forward to sharing more in other forums and posts in the future.

Autobot032 wrote:It was said in another thread, here, that the people who tend to enjoy the second film, tend to show a higher I.Q. and more smarts. Well, I can neither confirm, nor deny that because I just don't have any facts or figures to back it up, but I'm starting to wonder if it's true.

I think the brainiacs (and that's not a dig, honest) do enjoy the movie more because they can appreciate the depth of what's going on, the seriousness being touted, and still embrace the outlandish silliness that's always been intended. And they enjoy it because it's a nice balance of everything.

Ha! I was the one that said that! I deserve money because its true! Or at least a virtual energon cookie!

And this is what I was talking about, if you're smart enough to separate the seriousness from the stupidity, it doesnt seem like one big mixture of the two. And ROTF clearly had more seriousness than humor. The comedy scenes lasted for 10 seconds tops, while the movie was serious for the first 5 minutes, most of the second part and the entire third part of the movie.

I loved the first movie when it came out, I thought it was the greatest thing ever, I watched it yesterday, and I felt like I was watching a comedy with a big fight at the end with robots.

PaulK80 wrote:Please don't crucify me but I fall in the group of loving this movie without skipping scenes. I do agree there was ALOT of filler here and there.

The parents were great because parents are necessary when you're showing a young person take that step into adulthood but did we REALLY need to see mom high? Not really but it was a good quick laugh. The twins cracked me up cause I'm always telling people you gotta blend in like a ninja. And what friends don't call one another a p*ssy at some point in time?! lol I agree also, why does it take, what like 7 or more Primes to weaken the Fallen but ONE Optimus to destroy him while only losing 1 of his jet engines?! And why didn't Ironhide whoop some ass on Demolisher in Shanghai? Optimus had to be airdropped AND transform twice and got to him fast than 'Hide did. I REALLY hope by TF3, Ironhide and Rachet get to do something other than stand around. As a weapons expert, Ironhide sure doesn't do sh!t!!!! lol

Now the movie was very much excellent and really good considering strikes and all. I recall jumping and turning at the sight of the Fallen in the beginning and telling my brother who he was. Seeing robots without traditional feet was pretty cool from Demolisher and Sideswipe to the Arcee gals. Seeing the carrier jets hangar open with Optimus fully lit up then he drives out and very dramatically transforms in midair then unleashes his Autobot chutes, lands then drops back down into truck mode.

The forest battle speaks for itself in my opinion. Yeah Prime had a killer's mentality but it was to protect his friend! I have the score on my Ipod and when I listen to it, I still feel a swell of emotions when he rises from his knees, swords pulled, and states he clearly not afraid to be in an unfairly sided fight. And at 29 at the time, I can admit very honestly, that when Megs stuck his sword through Prime's chest, I gasped and felt like I got punched in the heart! Knowing my TF history like I do, I knew that it wouldn't be long before he returned, but still, I was 6 in the theater opening weekend when Prime went black/grey on that table in TF:TM. The emotional struggle that Sam goes through that there is no Prime now because of him really was something that I think a lot of people relate to in some way. And I can't explain my wave of emotions when that Matrix was shoved into his chest and he was restored, then of course, cue dramatic score and you've got a nearly 30 year old wishing his preteen boys weren't around so he could think about shedding a tear or two. lol Megatron was in fact kind of whimpish but didn't about EVERY g1 episode end in Megs shouting "decepticons retreat!!!" Those guys ran with their tails tucked every episode but why would it be such a bigger deal they do it in this instance? Starscream still seems very sniveling and it just seems like he's biting his tongue at times when Megs talks. I was a bit confused by the Megatron/Fallen aspect comparing it to Vader/Emperor of Star Wars. Vader too was totally powerful yet he kneeled to Palpatine. Why would Megs tell SS there is no command but mine then kneel before Fallen and call him Master?! weird!

Yeah the story had some problems to it but didn't all episodes of the Unicron trilogy?! Most of us watched them I believe despite its shortcomings. How many episodes of TFA did we all sit through waiting for a Decepticon to show after Starscream left in the opening episodes before we finally got one?! I count like 6 or 7 and we hung in there. As for me, give me Transformers and I'll give you my attention then my money for dvd's and toys. I have been really focusing on the stuff being posted about TF3's shooting and almost fainted when I saw the trailer behind Prime not to mention it had the G1 zigzag on the side of it. I know I'll be watching "Prime" on the Hub when it debuts and waiting in anticipation of next summer's sure-to-be blockbuster.

On one final note, I'd just like to say hello to all fellow fans here! I don't post often and when I do it's mostly in the sightings forum for Indiana. But I will say after reading the comments by everyone here, I definitely felt compelled to share my own thoughts on ROTF. Look forward to sharing more in other forums and posts in the future.

Did you just watch my top 20 greatest moments in ROTF vid? Cus most of what you just said, was exactly what I said in those videos. Not saying you copied me, just saying that I agree 100%! But I laughed when the mom got high and I can watch the movie without skiping anything!

Autobot032 wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hate to bump this, but a poster on another board brought up an interesting point:

Good point, but at least in the first one it's more like it could happen. In the second it all just seemed so much more hokier... I know, I know, I'm treading on kind of thin ice here. But I guess from my perspective, it just seemed like the first one seemed to be much more real, and the movie honestly drew me in because of it. It's kind of like the difference between Terminator 1 & 2 vs. 3 & 4. Terminator was so much cooler when it seemed like it could be happening right now! Or right then... I think you get the point. :p

I'll probably end up enjoying the third one for what it will end up being... action and bombs and crap blowing up, i.e., mindless 2-1/2 stuff involving robots blowing stuff up. I just hope it ends up making more sense than the 2nd.

I normally agree with this poster, but this is one time I must disagree.

Yes, the first movie went for realism, and it succeeded because it was BORING.
Yes, the second movie went for the fantastical, and it succeeded because it was FUN AND ENTERTAINING.

I don't really see how the first one was boring, it lacked robots, but I liked it alot more than the second...
More robots would've improved it though...

It was incredibly boring. Yes, more robots would've helped, but not by much. They focused entirely too much on Sam and the soldiers in a movie about TransFormers. I realize they needed us to connect with the human cast, but we spent so much time focusing on them, that the Autobots and Decepticons felt tacked on, rather than an integral part of the film. They didn't show up until about 55 minutes into the film. That's a long, long time to have a movie about TFs without them in it.

The first point I think is mainly opinion based, no-one I know thought it was boring, though I completely agree with the second bolded point. However the TransFormers were quite integral, without them, no point of the movie, the problem was like you said in the second thing, too many humans.

Frenzy was great, don't get me wrong, but he can't carry an entire film by himself, and he certainly couldn't even carry the first half of the movie all by himself. Blackout's appearance was shortlived and wasn't what we had hoped. Bumblebee and Barricade showed themselves but the camera work was so jittery that you couldn't enjoy the battle.

Err...actually, you're totally right here.

I fail to see how that's entertaining.

For one thing, you pointed out mostly what was wrong with the movie :/
Scorponok's attack near the beginning was of good length, semi important to the story, had a cool TransFormer, effects etc.
Towards the end the movie also picks up alot.

The second movie had a nice balance of human to robot interaction, the pace was faster so you didn't feel like it was lagging, the action was better, the camera work was a masterpiece compared to the first one, and it was silly over the top fun.

Totally agree here, however what I didn't like was the beginning with humans, they just didn't execute it well, they managed to make Sam's mom MORE annoying, add Alice who was completely pointless(and would've doomed the Cybertronians since she tried to kill Sam and Megatron wanted him alive), plus it introduced Leo.
Why'd they have to get rid of Glen?

How on Earth can the first film be considered better than the second when it lacked the title characters for a large portion of it's screen time?

You know, when you put it that way, I'm not really sure, I think it was how they used the TransFormers, they were actually introduced and had a bit of personality, ROTF was full of random nameless bots.

The story wasn't handled well either. Sam could've gotten his first car, have it turn out to be Bumblebee, get involved in the intergalactic war, but still have an E.T. feel to it. It had a sense of awe when you see Optimus and the Autobots transform for the first time (but you see a good portion of that scene in the trailers, so the movie didn't expand on it much), but beyond that, it was frenetic camera work, insane explosions (which I didn't mind), slow as molasses story telling, had a non existent plot (glasses? eBay? the cube? really?), and it lacked what it really needed: Spielberg's touch. His name was attached to it, but it didn't have any of his artistry, which is he is well known for.

I agree, Sam and BB's teamup wasn't used well, even at 12 I found it stupid when I read BB was silent to show "their relationship was beyond words" when it...wasn't...
I don't think the story was that slow, around the time where he comes back to look for the glasses though, yeah it is slow, besides that the story moved pretty well.
Ok yeah, the plot was kinda silly but at the same time...it wasn't bad...though that's opinion based, my last part...
Yeah, Spielberg could've helped ALOT.

If anyone can make your jaw drop, it's Spielberg.

Granted, he didn't do much with ROTF other than be a name on the credits, but Bay and Ehren Kruger saved the film from the shoddy writing of Orci and Kurtzman. The film worked a lot better than the first, and I still come back to the box office. It was a bonafide hit. Simple as that.

I think it was a bit long, alot of unnecessary annoying parts should've been removed for some story stuff.
I guess why I don't like ROTF as much is due to the annoying parts annoying me beyond reason.
And what they did to Megatron...

LOL No I can honestly say I didn't read your other post even though I did see the post header after I had posted here but then got too tired to read your top 20.

Did you just watch my top 20 greatest moments in ROTF vid? Cus most of what you just said, was exactly what I said in those videos. Not saying you copied me, just saying that I agree 100%! But I laughed when the mom got high and I can watch the movie without skiping anything![/quote]

it had good fight scenes but bad acting and bad story telling

UM Prime wrote:it had good fight scenes but bad acting and bad story telling

I still honestly dont see where the bad acting is. Except in a few minor scenes.

Same, Mikaela's "I want you...I NEEED you" was really it, and mostly because of how stupid that line was.
And Sly, you ever gonna finish that top 20 list, or did you? The thread kinda died so I never knew...

Since this is the appreciation thread, I'll list a few good things I saw in ROTF.

1. Starscream's personality came through a bit more. His voice was a little less deep, too, which helped. However, the personality went a little too far in the groveling coward direction and not enough in the subversive, arrogant, too smart for his own good direction.

2. Jetfire's alt mode was cool. Unfortunately they never used it in action.

3. Wheelie was pretty entertaining, except the needless leg humping that wasn't funny.

4. The kitchen bots were a cool idea, but they moved too fast and had so little screen time that you couldn't get a really good look at them. And as with most other movie decepticons, they had no real personality or dialogue. Anyway it gave us Scout Class Ejector, so that was good. It's about time they made a toaster bot! Now I'm just waiting for the microwave and the blender.

5. Optimus came back this time.

That said, all my objections to the movie stand, and though I've watched it three times (with total out of pocket expenses of $1.06), I just can't find enough scraps of enjoyment to say it's a good movie. In fact it seemed worse each time. I couldn't even bring myself to buy the Target DVD for the transforming Bumblebee case, because $26 just seemed like too much to pay for a transforming case with two plastic drink coasters inside.

RoTF:
I think RoTF stands alone just fine as both a movie and a segment of a saga. Most stuff that bothered Internet folks didn't bother me at all. I mostly hated (and still do) what I consider a particular, dismissive,at best, attitude from someone towards the original Transformers lineup and its' various intertwining relationship aspects. Not Rodimus replacing Prime or the Unicron MUST come slogan, but Starscream without the other Jets, all the utterly discarded Autobots and so on.I will not express myself the way I should here, but I feel that if the movie can't represent what I want to show off to someone about any given TF, it was made by one person for one person.

Other than that, reactions to a single character may be completely opposite in different parts of the world.

1) In Greece, the twins are respected for surviving a war without education or size. Sideswipe is a Gaylord for complimenting himself, even tho his moves get complimented a second before..
2)Hugo Weaving can pull off a great "unbelievably happy and yet unbelievably sad" Elrond but does a useless Megatron voice for my personal tastes: The Megs that I know is laughing casually as he talks, revelling in the knowledge of uninterrupted perpetual destruction of all oncomers.His voice is "Dripping with Venom and blood". The Weaving voice bothers me more than Devastators Balls, which are a logical conclusion to make when you have to talk fast to explain something unbelievable to some dude who can save your life when you're standing under his target.
3)The Forest battle is a brilliant display of non kung fu combat.
4)Megan fox draped over Arcee was unnecessary in a toy movie.May as well advertise Cigarettes on the Nascars after that smart one!
5)Alice was Far prettier than Mikaela and I appreciate it!
6)Jetfire was a great exploration of what a TF personality could be.It's just that Jetfire dies as an old fart as a result...
7)The allspark shards seem to only generate Decepticons, which is disappointing since baby toaster Autobots could have been adopted by Sam and Bumblebee bringing extra stress to their plotlines, and troubling since it implies Autobots evolved second.

People will always be around to Google over the female lead and curse every other detail and I won't pick a fight here- let them if that's what makes them feel relevant, but the films are just fine as stories.I love the new details but what I hate is the repeated ignoring of what any old fans are known to want to see. Just leaving out sunstreaker, or fielding the two sets of Constructicons are examples of the constant "Fk you and Shutup" that I interpret coming from Bay to me.

I am the one of those who reverently brought the Transformers through intact from 1984 to Bays hands and I will always be protective of them because of it, which means I will be aggressive to those who hurt them. I hope people can understand what I am trying to express rather than inerpret that I am Flaming someone.The movieverse is fine,but the founding fathers were sold out on so the movieverse could become fine the quck, easy way, rather than the harder, more honest way.

Apologies for long post.

orriezaros wrote:7)The allspark shards seem to only generate Decepticons, which is disappointing since baby toaster Autobots could have been adopted by Sam and Bumblebee bringing extra stress to their plotlines, and troubling since it implies Autobots evolved second.

fielding the two sets of Constructicons are examples of the constant "Fk you and Shutup" that I interpret coming from Bay to me.

The best explanation I've heard about the Allspark is it creates feral Transformers when it gets jostled around like in the movies. It's not how it's supposed to be used so the results aren't very good.

As for the Constructicon thing I'm sticking with the theory that Devastator works like Tidal Wave, the vehicles that he's made of don't transform into robots.

I loved the movie,i loved the first one ,this hate seen unneeded.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:As for the Constructicon thing I'm sticking with the theory that Devastator works like Tidal Wave, the vehicles that he's made of don't transform into robots.

I think the official explanation was that each Constructicon has doubles :/
I still go with:they just messed up.

zenosaurus_x wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:As for the Constructicon thing I'm sticking with the theory that Devastator works like Tidal Wave, the vehicles that he's made of don't transform into robots.

I think the official explanation was that each Constructicon has doubles :/
I still go with:they just messed up.

The protoforms can share alt modes. That's why there was Grindor, even though Blackout was dead.

That explains why there was Long Haul going through the village while another dump truck like him was forming a part of Devastator.

They didn't mess up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to wrap their heads around the idea that the alt modes were shared.

It's not the greatest explanation, I admit, but it's reasonable. It could've been worse. People tend to overthink this stuff and it's just flat out ridiculous.

zenosaurus_x wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:As for the Constructicon thing I'm sticking with the theory that Devastator works like Tidal Wave, the vehicles that he's made of don't transform into robots.

I think the official explanation was that each Constructicon has doubles :/
I still go with:they just messed up.

That was Hasbro's explanation, and it doesn't add up. There are clearly 9 vehicles that form Devastator, yet they claim there are only 7. Supposedly Long Haul and Rampage form the legs, yet they are vastly different in size. Plus the dump truck that makes the right leg isn't even the same kind that Long Haul transforms into.

I think the original plan was to have the 7 Constructicons form Devastator, but was changed at some point. Like Arcee being replaced by Ironhide in the first movie. I guess Hasbro just didn't get the memo. So I'm going by what I see in the movie, 9 vehicles form big robot.

Autobot032 wrote:They didn't mess up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to wrap their heads around the idea that the alt modes were shared.

It's not the greatest explanation, I admit, but it's reasonable. It could've been worse. People tend to overthink this stuff and it's just flat out ridiculous.

There's no need to rationalize the discrepancy and call people's reactions to it ridiculous. No explanation for this "sharing of alt modes" was offered within the movie. That's flat-out sloppy moviemaking, and it's the fault of the director, writers, and editors for not making it make sense by itself, not the fault of the audience for not understanding it.

Autobot032 wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:As for the Constructicon thing I'm sticking with the theory that Devastator works like Tidal Wave, the vehicles that he's made of don't transform into robots.

I think the official explanation was that each Constructicon has doubles :/
I still go with:they just messed up.

The protoforms can share alt modes. That's why there was Grindor, even though Blackout was dead.

That explains why there was Long Haul going through the village while another dump truck like him was forming a part of Devastator.

They didn't mess up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to wrap their heads around the idea that the alt modes were shared.

It's not the greatest explanation, I admit, but it's reasonable. It could've been worse. People tend to overthink this stuff and it's just flat out ridiculous.

It's not the alt-modes I think is the mess up, it's the fact that the bot modes are exactly the same, makes me think it was a mistake or something, except with Grindor...no idea bout that e_e

That was Hasbro's explanation, and it doesn't add up. There are clearly 9 vehicles that form Devastator, yet they claim there are only 7. Supposedly Long Haul and Rampage form the legs, yet they are vastly different in size. Plus the dump truck that makes the right leg isn't even the same kind that Long Haul transforms into.

I think the original plan was to have the 7 Constructicons form Devastator, but was changed at some point. Like Arcee being replaced by Ironhide in the first movie. I guess Hasbro just didn't get the memo. So I'm going by what I see in the movie, 9 vehicles form big robot.

Good point, I forgot Hasbro said 7 when you can clearly see at LEAST and 8th forming the Left Hand...

I appreciate the fight scenes and Megatron's return only. At first, when I saw the midnight showing, I was psyched out, and thought it was better than the first because of the action and the visuals. Then, after having time to think about the story, it dawned on me what a letdown it was. I've seen it a few times since, but I watch for the action mostly. Still, I've only skipped scenes once, when i was depressed and needed some good action to lift me up. Watched the forest fight and the end fight and felt better. But overall, RoTF deserves no appreciation save for the visuals and the fighting. And the destruction of the aircraft carrier. I wonder what Bay will do to top that in the 3rd film.