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I have wondered about my fellow seibertronians and their response to the film over these three movies. They have hated and criticized Mbay for a lot and even go so far as to make threats to the man. Now let me say that this man made our dreams a reality for what it is worth. Cars and trucks that transform into live robotic beings. Who of us really knew what we were in for. Remember the first time Optimus transformed and spoke. To me that was my favorite scene in the entire series. It really became real then for me.

The sheer scale of these machines were really put on display in these films. I am not sure that there were some of us that really understood the gravity of the sheer size until we saw compared to one of us in real life. This is not the 80's. The children do not see vehicles that look like the old optimus much anymore, they don't see people walking around with handguns that look like Megs, F-16's are now F-22's to kids. I love G1 with my whole heart since I was born in 1980. My first transformer was G1 Megatron.

I really enjoyed how they reimagined this series for all audiences. We have more fans than we ever did because of these films. Until these films I never seen so many female fans in my life that genuinely love the characters. Bay made this war... a war. In until the 1986 film you couldn't get Autobots and Decepticons to even shoot straight at each other all the time. These suckers were killing each other. Even good guys had to get ugly with it, Autobots were brutal. They talked less and killed more. Did not see that happening. Bumblebee got a massive upgrade, I am not sure that a fan that saw our Bumblebee that we grew up with could believe that the new one was based on him.

The Transformers became real and we got to really see Autobots on our roads and all of that. There were always vehicles that were models of the 80's toys on the roads, but these were real except for being able to transform. So say what you will about Michael Bay, and the writing but like in my previous post there are a lot of things to appreciate about what MBay and Spiels did. I think they did a good job! It could be done better in spots and maybe someone will but for now we lived long enough to see a childhood toy, cartoon, comic book come as close to real life as ever. They were always real to me!!!!

Yes, Micheal Bay is an absolute badass for creating a set of movies for the '2000s generation' that has brought in uber amounts of money to the franchise and has made all sorts of good G1 stuff happen in the background. For that, i would like to dry hump his leg. The man has revitalized the franchise and opened the doors with opportunities for us older G1 fans, inadvertently. He is a master, like no other.

-BUT- (Please do not read past this point if you are a bayformer fan)

I hate the man for how crappy the movies were and believe me, they could have been done without the 80s "camp" that you are describing up there and still 'smoked' MB's crapfest. The art style is about a 50/50 for me. I like it some days and others i absolutely hate it. I think the art style could have been easily forgiven if he would have created an epic story telling adventure here, that made sense. But he sold a "Transformers meets Bad Boys meets Pearl Harbor" and for that, i hope he "diaf", even tho im not mean enough to light the match. But ya know what really jumps in my god damn jimmies and just **** launches me into a near frenzy of hatred that i can't bear to unleash on any nearby bayformer fan? Is that all these **** morons, like Spielberg keep saying what a great sotryteller Micheal Bay is. This guy couldn't tell a story if his life depended on it and here he is, shittin up my god damn hobby with his piss poor skill at makin movies.

I love what Bay did with the series. It's not the same as the Transformers I grew up with, but that's OK. It's cool in its own way. The second movie was a bit incomprehensible, but the first and third are are fine. Could a Transformers movie be made that deals with important issues and has a deep plot with great acting? Probably. It could have been District 9 with Transformers instead of prawn. But the world needs lighthearted fun too, so I'm perfectly OK with what we got.

Respectfully, the Transformers were going to come to life as soon as it was decided that a live action TF film would be made.It doesn't matter who the director would have been, their coming to life for us was a fact set in stone as soon as the decision was made-and it was a decision that would inevitably have been made.Look at the ones who didn't come to life, tho.Look at the ones who were erased from existence, or worse,brought to life and then defaced.Anywhere else, Michael Bay could have been fired for either incapability to use the subject matter properly or refusal to cooperate.Would you hire someone who spits on your product and laughs at your customers to run your show?

Michael Bay brought things into the storyline that we may have never considered anything other than sacrilege, with a good result.For example, Wheelie, who was an embarassment and the cringe factor of the original 86 movie, got a total revamp for the better.Others, such as Soundwave and Megatron HAD to get revamps, once again regardless of the director.It was simply agreed that the size difference between modes had to be addressed.Even we felt that way.

But Bay contributed at what cost? Ignore the Transformation of Bumblebee into Silver/Bluestreak and Trailbreaker into Ironhide,Brawl into Devastator,Sideswipe into Mirage and then Dino,Frenzy into Soundwave and so on.Where are Skywarp and Thundercracker? Ignore the multiple living dead Decepticons and dead once, gone forever Autobots.Why is Starscream a Dorito?Furthermore, why was he allowed to be a Dorito? How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?
Bay decided to get petty and take pot shots at Megan Fox now in this latest film.Excuse me? Why should he be allowed to do that? It's not HIS film to use that way or any other way.He was HIRED to do something for someone else that he both can't and doesn't want to do.

Contributions aside,he is NOT the man for this job.I will always love these 3 films and I'm grateful for the absolutely brilliant call center joke in the first movie and Sideswipes wheel feet, which Bay says are his ideas and which I applaud, but it's appropriate that he leave now and that TFs stay. They have yet to be represented as THE cult storyline and brilliant TechSpecs from the 80s.As such, they have only been brought to life for us one dimensionally.

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

To be honest, that scene made pot a LOT less appealing.

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

Capt.Failure wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

So you arbitrate that kids should be taught hash cookies are funny, and now you're correct and I should feel ashamed of myself. Do you have children?

G1 Smoketreader wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

So you arbitrate that kids should be taught hash cookies are funny, and now you're correct and I should feel ashamed of myself. Do you have children?

My having children or not is of no consequence to the subject at hand, and that you choose to ignorantly misinterpret my statement speaks volumes. If parents choose to take their kids to a PG-13 movie then they should accept that their kids may see things they don't want them to. It is not on Hasbro or Michael Bay's shoulders to prevent that. A good parent would realise this.

People who think kids are going to think that the pot brownies are confusing..... Gee, I'm pretty sure it was a joke that went clear over the kids heads. If you ever watched the G1 series, you actually had Transformers getting drunk off of energon, and having a good ole time doing it. But it's OK for G1 to have drunk Transformers, but not Ok for the live action film to have a tippy mom. Whatever.

Iamwarhorse wrote:People who think kids are going to think that the pot brownies are confusing..... Gee, I'm pretty sure it was a joke that went clear over the kids heads. If you ever watched the G1 series, you actually had Transformers getting drunk off of energon, and having a good ole time doing it. But it's OK for G1 to have drunk Transformers, but not Ok for the live action film to have a tippy mom. Whatever.

Alcohol = legal
Pot = Illegal

karellan wrote:I love what Bay did with the series. It's not the same as the Transformers I grew up with, but that's OK. It's cool in its own way. The second movie was a bit incomprehensible, but the first and third are are fine. Could a Transformers movie be made that deals with important issues and has a deep plot with great acting? Probably. It could have been District 9 with Transformers instead of prawn. But the world needs lighthearted fun too, so I'm perfectly OK with what we got.

Oddly enough, after spending some time doing some photoshoping some of the pics from all three movies, i'm starting to give and have this point of view of the whole thing, rather than the nerd-ragin G1 fanboy I have been these last couple of days.

The fact is, there is alot, ALOT of Transformer media out there for various audiences, so it is what it is. I just want to enjoy all the perks of being a long time TF fan while its in the spotlight and there is Transformer posters all over the place and tons of Transformer toys at my local Walmart.

Karellan, thank you. I love your point of view.

G1 Smoketreader wrote:Respectfully, the Transformers were going to come to life as soon as it was decided that a live action TF film would be made.It doesn't matter who the director would have been, their coming to life for us was a fact set in stone as soon as the decision was made-and it was a decision that would inevitably have been made.Look at the ones who didn't come to life, tho.Look at the ones who were erased from existence, or worse,brought to life and then defaced.Anywhere else, Michael Bay could have been fired for either incapability to use the subject matter properly or refusal to cooperate.Would you hire someone who spits on your product and laughs at your customers to run your show?

Michael Bay brought things into the storyline that we may have never considered anything other than sacrilege, with a good result.For example, Wheelie, who was an embarassment and the cringe factor of the original 86 movie, got a total revamp for the better.Others, such as Soundwave and Megatron HAD to get revamps, once again regardless of the director.It was simply agreed that the size difference between modes had to be addressed.Even we felt that way.

But Bay contributed at what cost? Ignore the Transformation of Bumblebee into Silver/Bluestreak and Trailbreaker into Ironhide,Brawl into Devastator,Sideswipe into Mirage and then Dino,Frenzy into Soundwave and so on.Where are Skywarp and Thundercracker? Ignore the multiple living dead Decepticons and dead once, gone forever Autobots.Why is Starscream a Dorito?Furthermore, why was he allowed to be a Dorito? How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?
Bay decided to get petty and take pot shots at Megan Fox now in this latest film.Excuse me? Why should he be allowed to do that? It's not HIS film to use that way or any other way.He was HIRED to do something for someone else that he both can't and doesn't want to do.

Contributions aside,he is NOT the man for this job.I will always love these 3 films and I'm grateful for the absolutely brilliant call center joke in the first movie and Sideswipes wheel feet, which Bay says are his ideas and which I applaud, but it's appropriate that he leave now and that TFs stay. They have yet to be represented as THE cult storyline and brilliant TechSpecs from the 80s.As such, they have only been brought to life for us one dimensionally.

a truly reasoned and sensible post

i applaud thee, very eloquent

Capt.Failure wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

yes imagine arbitrarily imposing that mantle on a movie based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline for children

and then a movie that is marketed towards children, how dare you suggest that its a movie for children.

It may not be exclusively for children, but it is their target market.

shamone wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

yes imagine arbitrarily imposing that mantle on a movie based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline for children

and then a movie that is marketed towards children, how dare you suggest that its a movie for children.

It may not be exclusively for children, but it is their target market.

Robocop, Aliens, and Terminator all had toylines and those were certainly not kid movies. The Transformers movies are marketed for general audiences, not a specific age group. That's why we have a rating system, so people will know beforehand what kind of content a movie has.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

shamone wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.

yes imagine arbitrarily imposing that mantle on a movie based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline for children

and then a movie that is marketed towards children, how dare you suggest that its a movie for children.

It may not be exclusively for children, but it is their target market.

Robocop, Aliens, and Terminator all had toylines and those were certainly not kid movies. The Transformers movies are marketed for general audiences, not a specific age group. That's why we have a rating system, so people will know beforehand what kind of content a movie has.

In short: the arguement that Transformers is soley for children and films/series should be developed around that doesn't have a leg to stand on.

RhA wrote:

G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?

To be honest, that scene made pot a LOT less appealing.

Yea, but that's also fairly inaccurate too. She just went all nutty. I'm' not saying we needed a marijuana to represented fairly in a movie about alien robots, but why do it if you're not going to make it based on anything real?

Anyway, say what I will about Michael Bay? Sure!
I've never really liked Michael Bay. His films often midly entertaining, but mostly insult the audience. Armageddon had it's moments, but the most of it was OTT and just too out there. Why wouldn't NASA train its astronauts to use drills, instead of teaching drillers to use spaceships? Affleck even said something like this to Bay and he was told to shut up.
The Island, omg...that movie is just so stupid. I felt dumber for having watched every second of that uninteresting contrived piece of trash.
Con Air, this is actually a really good movie. It uses exaggerated characters and situations very well. It made me care about the heroes, and even a couple of the villains. I like this movie alot, but Michael Bay had nothing to do with it. Seems like he could have though, huh?
So, I was expecting Michael Bay to do anything different with Transformers. He was going to make a Michael Bay movie with Transformers in it, and that's exactly what he did. I dont like Michael Bay movies, I do like Transformers, these movies result in a major conflict.

Chaoslock wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:People who think kids are going to think that the pot brownies are confusing..... Gee, I'm pretty sure it was a joke that went clear over the kids heads. If you ever watched the G1 series, you actually had Transformers getting drunk off of energon, and having a good ole time doing it. But it's OK for G1 to have drunk Transformers, but not Ok for the live action film to have a tippy mom. Whatever.

Alcohol = legal
Pot = Illegal

And it should be the reverse. Pot is illegal because of the dumb ass politicians. The fact that we had the DADT policy for so long speaks volumes about the United States corrupted law views. But in the end, both instances were wrong for children, but it was more appropriate in the live action film than in the cartoon series because of the main target audience. The 80's was for the kids, and the movies was aimed at an overall teens to 30ish crowd.

With that said, like others here, a movie can be of adult material and still be marketed at kids. Terminator, Robocop, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Predator, Aliens and the such are just a few examples. How many of us kids remember watching the Friday the 13th and Freddy films, and we all turned out alright despite the gruesome violence and OTT themes?

I'm super excited about Michael Bay's take on the TFs. I think he hit them spot-on in regards to the slaughter the Decepticons would give to the human race. His approach regarding the use of drugs and sex is nothing short of reality. The tragic loss of loved characters and the thrill of the death of the antagonists was heart stopping.

People slam Michael Bay for totally ruining their dreams of real-life TFs but who pays attention to critics? I know people who are so critical about every stinking detail that I can't stand being around them. You can't please critics because there is no pleasing them.

Michael Bay made me believe TFs can be real even if you can't explain their technology. You're not suppose to understand their technology because it's not of this earth. Governments will try to cover up their existance and lie to the public. This is what they do in real life (even if there are things the general public shouldn't know).

It's sad to see him move on to bigger and better things but I'm expectantly waiting to see who jumps in the seat and what they will do on the reboot movie series. Michael Bay gets 2 thumbs up from me and a cherished spot in my movie and TF collections.

Iamwarhorse wrote:And it should be the reverse. Pot is illegal because of the dumb ass politicians. The fact that we had the DADT policy for so long speaks volumes about the United States corrupted law views.

Wut?

Iamwarhorse wrote:With that said, like others here, a movie can be of adult material and still be marketed at kids. Terminator, Robocop, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Predator, Aliens and the such are just a few examples. How many of us kids remember watching the Friday the 13th and Freddy films, and we all turned out alright despite the gruesome violence and OTT themes?

TMNT cartoons and movies were never not marketted for kids. Comics on the otherhand...

But really, what kid wathces Aliens and Predator? Also keep in mind that Alien toys were pulled off shelves.

People slam Michael Bay for totally ruining their dreams of real-life TFs but who pays attention to critics? I know people who are so critical about every stinking detail that I can't stand being around them. You can't please critics because there is no pleasing them.

Most critics, actually, are not TF fans, and are slamming Michael Bay for unbiased reasons. Critics, actually can be pleased. I dont understand why you say this? You've never heard of a movie getting rave reviews? They're not coming against it because they didn't want flames on optimus, or whatever, but for entirely different, and legitimate reasons.

Theres just stuff wrong with the Bayformer setup. Like Brawl being named Devastator and Dino, and that whole craptastic spasm of theatrical crap that was ROTF...but theres more.

It is what it is. RIDE THE LIGHTNING! Enjoy the show. Its dumb stupid fun and its probably inspired alot of people to create better movies and etc, etc. For as much **** as MB **** up about the TFers, he did good by ten fold.

So like it, love it, hate it...whatever.

Chaoslock wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:People who think kids are going to think that the pot brownies are confusing..... Gee, I'm pretty sure it was a joke that went clear over the kids heads. If you ever watched the G1 series, you actually had Transformers getting drunk off of energon, and having a good ole time doing it. But it's OK for G1 to have drunk Transformers, but not Ok for the live action film to have a tippy mom. Whatever.

Alcohol = legal
Pot = Illegal

Plus, that G1 scene was hilarious whereas the pot brownies? Not so much....

I'll give this to Michael Bay: he made 1 good movie before Matrix-itis set in and a surprise hit was stretched out to 2 just awful, overlong sequels which managed to be worse than the originals despite bigger budgets and flashier F/X.

However, that hit-or-miss ratio still places him above a more ballyhooed director like what George Lucas churned out between 1999-2005.

Just thought I'd remind everybody here about A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court and Carnage in C Minor. Devastator balls and dick jokes are a godsend in comparison to some of the crap G1 pumped out. It had its moments, to be sure, but to claim that G1 was better as a whole is silly given the sheer amount of stupidity that happened during the course of the cartoon. At least in Revenge of the Fallen we never had Seaspray falling in love with mermaids.

SPOILERS FOR DOTM AHEAD!

That being said, I also enjoyed the human interactions a whole lot in Dark of the Moon so maybe I'm a bit biased. I thought the exploration of Sam's character was excellent, and his yearning for his glory days to be sympathetic and well done. I even didn't mind Jerry Wang; in fact, I found his quirkiness to be terriying once it was revealed that Laserbeak was controlling him. This effect was doubled when we get to see how Sam reacts to the same treatment. To realize that all of that awkwardness with Jerry and Sam was pretty much just Laserbeak playing with his food before he throws it down the garbage disposal was quite unnerving, to say the least. But then, I found every single thing Laserbeak said and did to be unnerving. Probably my favorite incarnation of the character so far(yes, that's including Animated guitar Laserbeak). Anybody who still wants to call him goofy looking is either, to quote Megatron, 'lying or stupid'. Granted his toy form does look a little goofier than onscreen, but knowing what kind of character he is certainly helps to make his toy look more menacing.

I found the 'humans working with Decepticons' bit to be very well done as well. The concept has been tossed about before in the mythos, but never to quite this extent. It was a really interesting twist and helped make the entire thing feel like an actual war; a war the Autobots were clearly losing. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't see more of the public ridiculing the Autobots and telling them to leave, but what we got was enough to get the point across. I actually really liked how the military was handled, and was happy to see them capable of fighting the Decepticons up close and personal again. Like it or not, the Transformers are on Earth, and as long as the Autobots are the good guys then humans will always be considered an ally to them. To see the military so active and willing to help fight despite the odds was almost inspiring, and it was wonderful seeing them snipe out the Decepticon's eyes and then bomb them.

As for the Transformers themselves? I do wish we'd gotten a bit more dialogue from some of them. Wheeljack, Sideswipe and Dino just seemed to sort of be there most of the time, but this time they all at least got a few excellent scenes (the Mexican standoff was outstanding). I do feel that they were much more three dimensional this time, and felt that while we might not have gotten quite as much of some of them as we'd like, there was enough to make us care whether they lived or died. And this time, the human interactions actually make sense for the most part and flow well with the story, so it doesn't feel quite as much like filler whenever the humans are on-screen. Again, I realize some folks disliked the first half with Sam job-hunting, but I enjoyed this part very much as it expanded his character and showed us what kind of effect the war has had on him. He's having difficulty adapting to the repetition and plainness of every day life. This is a subject that movies very rarely bring up past a few throw away lines, so to see it as a focal point for Sam's character was refreshing. I am definitely biased here, so to each his own. In fact, to each his own with the whole subject, actually.

Except Carnage in C-Minor. That can go die in a fire except for Blaster and Soundwave's being hilarious.

Personally I think Micheal Bay should be given a medal for making Wheelie likable. My 2-cents.

I agree Blades! Well said!

No Death for Prowl wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:People who think kids are going to think that the pot brownies are confusing..... Gee, I'm pretty sure it was a joke that went clear over the kids heads. If you ever watched the G1 series, you actually had Transformers getting drunk off of energon, and having a good ole time doing it. But it's OK for G1 to have drunk Transformers, but not Ok for the live action film to have a tippy mom. Whatever.

Alcohol = legal
Pot = Illegal

Plus, that G1 scene was hilarious whereas the pot brownies? Not so much....

I'll give this to Michael Bay: he made 1 good movie before Matrix-itis set in and a surprise hit was stretched out to 2 just awful, overlong sequels which managed to be worse than the originals despite bigger budgets and flashier F/X.

However, that hit-or-miss ratio still places him above a more ballyhooed director like what George Lucas churned out between 1999-2005.

Eh, pot brownies was over kill. So, what did you all think about Brains and the smokin? But, with all of the buzz that went on in these movies, Ratchet's walking into the powerlines was the best! "Wow, that was tingly" Ironhide "yeah, that looks like fun!"