The Energon Pub

Counterpunch wrote:

WolfDawg wrote:I'd post a link to the actual Twitter posts, but I don't think that's allowed, is it?

It's allowed. Have at it.

Honestly, if the Club wants to put out their opinions on non-club matters in public, then they are welcome to face public discussion on those opinions.

To their credit though, they were initially only complaining over knock off stuff and not 3rd party additions. That may have changed.

Sorry it took me so long. I was at work and didn't get a break. Here's the link to the twitter posts.

http://www.oafe.net/blog/2011/09/transf ... -off-toys/

"Seems like TFCC is pretty upset about the booming 3rd party market..."
That's just laughable. I was a member of the club for 2 years and stopped joining, it was a waste of money. At least the 3rd parties are pushing out fan based stuff of their own design(loosely based on Has/Tak design) at times cheaper than the Botcon
repaints-"repaints"!
They can do what they like, but I'm not a fan of the club itself.

I'm kind of confused on the subject at hand. Is TCC talking about third-party, or just straight up K.O.'s? To me it looks like they are talking about K.O.'s due to the mentioning of licensing and total copies of Hasbro's merchandise. If this is the case I do understand what they are saying, but why now? I mean, I've seen K.O. Devastators and Airielbots for years, plus various other "non" Transformers.

headsortails wrote:I'm kind of confused on the subject at hand. Is TCC talking about third-party, or just straight up K.O.'s? To me it looks like they are talking about K.O.'s due to the mentioning of licensing and total copies of Hasbro's merchandise. If this is the case I do understand what they are saying, but why now? I mean, I've seen K.O. Devastators and Airielbots for years, plus various other "non" Transformers.

It was about KOs, though I think they did imply third parties at one point, too.

Im leaning towards the option that the staff at TFCC got high on crack and decided to screw around with their twitter on a random subject in an all-caps rage.

I agree with the tweet and comment that this really made me think lowly of the dicks people at TFCC.

[DECEASED] wrote:

Awesome Devastator and Bruticus photo... what are those, custom-built?

WeatherManNX01 wrote:

headsortails wrote:I'm kind of confused on the subject at hand. Is TCC talking about third-party, or just straight up K.O.'s? To me it looks like they are talking about K.O.'s due to the mentioning of licensing and total copies of Hasbro's merchandise. If this is the case I do understand what they are saying, but why now? I mean, I've seen K.O. Devastators and Airielbots for years, plus various other "non" Transformers.

It was about KOs, though I think they did imply third parties at one point, too.

They're definitely talking KOs and not 3rd party:



Note the part where they say "completely copying", implying that reverse engineering the mold is the part they have a problem with, not developing parts for a "legit" HasTak product that you're paying the company for.

Midnight_Fox wrote:

WeatherManNX01 wrote:

headsortails wrote:I'm kind of confused on the subject at hand. Is TCC talking about third-party, or just straight up K.O.'s? To me it looks like they are talking about K.O.'s due to the mentioning of licensing and total copies of Hasbro's merchandise. If this is the case I do understand what they are saying, but why now? I mean, I've seen K.O. Devastators and Airielbots for years, plus various other "non" Transformers.

It was about KOs, though I think they did imply third parties at one point, too.

They're definitely talking KOs and not 3rd party:



Note the part where they say "completely copying", implying that reverse engineering the mold is the part they have a problem with, not developing parts for a "legit" HasTak product that you're paying the company for.

Ah, that I missed, since it wasn't directed toward me (or toward everyone).

So there we go.

At which point, I have no problem with their stance whatsoever.

not really going to take anything to heart from that, as they have an agenda (and jobs!) to uphold

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Awesome Devastator and Bruticus photo... what are those, custom-built?

They're not custom built... they're custom engineered, tested, and produced to break laws, bruh. IP infringement got me awn lawk, son. Honesty, I'd rather spend 300 on an unofficial devy than 300 on a boxset of repaints with new heads or wings. TFCC & ScamCon Botcon can suk mah bawlz! Conventions aren't about the exclusives - they're not even about the dealer room...

Well, I do agree with them. KO-ing bots is a horrible practice. Would you like to have your stuff copied and sold cheaper? I know I'd rage, I have been copied in the past, which is absolutely not a good thing. No even a bit flattering.

3rd party stuff indeed revolves around accessories mostly. City Commander could easily be seen as such, even if it's bigger then the product it's supposed to work with. Still, I believe many of those companies are beter off making a unique toyline. The better ones are obviously qualified and seem to build up a fanbase of their own among the TF-fans.

D*cks or not, I agree with the TFCC.

Well, I agree with them somewhat, K.O. distribution is a dodgy practice. On the other hand, it does absolutely nothing to their bottom line, and as a company I can't really see why they'd try to take a moral high ground type stance. For the record, the only reason people buy K.O.s is because they never would have bought the originals in the first place. Either for financial reasons, or simply because the toy is not available anymore. They're making a big deal out of nothing. Honestly, these guys sound like the kind of jerks that would support the DHS's federal copyright crackdown or other nonsense.

Still, so long as they aren't attacking 'not' Devastator or 'not' Insecticons I don't care that much. Most K.O.s suck anyway.

Let them complain. As far as I know, the only K.O.'s that are generally produced (that actually sell in any real quantity) are for figures that are out of production and only available for extremely inflated prices on the aftermarket (ebay etc.), which Has/Tak sees $0 from the sale of anyway (Takara gets NO MONEY for that Henkei Wildrider you purchased for $500 on the bay, be it a K.O. or a legit figure).

Now, if they would watch the aftermarket prices of these figures, and then respond to the increased demand by INCREASING PRODUCTION and reissuing figures (like Takara recently did with Henkei Hot Rod), then there likely wouldn't be nearly as many K.O.'s out there, at least not as many that actually meet any real demand from collectors (who are the only ones purchasing K.O.'s for the most part anyway).

Personally, if I ran a company that produced items that increased in price so massively on the aftermarket, I would IMMEDIATELY begin production on a second run of said items to meet the demand, thus increasing profits for my company. It's guaranteed income, but they pass it up time and time again, and that is where the K.O.'s that sell come from, so complain all you want Hasbro, but until you meet the demand created by your limited production, you aren't doing anything to disuade US from buying the K.O.'s.

well, this crossed my mind many moons ago.

you see, I am getting my bonus pay this month, and I was thinking to get myself a good combiner. I saw the Supreme Devastator ROTF and I got my eyes on those. Later I got to know, it does not have the individual bot mode. wtf Hasbro. that is simply one of the biggest letdown I had. Earlier, I was one of the early bird who purchased Ultimate OP, only to have an Ultimate letdown on the figure. Took me 2 hours to buy it and 15 minutes to sell it. Done. And whats up with the delay on Megatron's DOTM Leader Class figure?

Now, my funds are tagetted at Hercules. And judging from those pictures, I know I will be a happy man. Just hope those third party peeps will release their version of Star Saber and Victory Leo. I'd buy that in a heartbeat!

I've made this statement before.

Even before Fans Project, I have submitted suggestions to help the club, from weapons kits, to armor for some figures. EVERTHING that fans project has done, was pretty much what I asked for the Club to do was done by Fans Project and other 3rd party companies.

If you aren't will/able to offer us what was asked BEFORE why crack down on those that do. Your prices for pieces like Punch/CounterPunch and G2 Ramjet, IMO, is atrocious. It's not like these are new molds. Yet when Fans Project comes out with brand new molds for figures and pieces we are asking for, we still get a brand new figure, from the ground up, with limited resources (not banking off of Hasbro's factories) and still pay less then these "authentic" figures. So excuse me if I don't really care for the cries of the club since suggestions have fallen on def ears. You want to know what us, the consumers, want. How about reading some of those emails we send you. Maybe pay a lil more attention on how to run these things a lil better from a 3rd party companies.

Fans Project, is the PREMIER in 3rd party products to me. They do it right. Even when they do it wrong, they make it right. They show protos online, and then get feed back from the fans. I originally didn't think they needed to do that. I remember when we got proto pics of the "Protector" armor and the wings on the back (in bot mode) weren't prominent enough for the fans. (I personally didn't care) but what did Fans Project do? They integrated new spoilers into their design, into the alt mode and bot mode.

Yet you give us Punch/Counterpunch with a lil PINHEAD, and never once showed us (THE ACTUAL BUYERS) any pics. We all had to buy blind in the hopes that the figure would be fantastic. IMO, it's just ok and overpriced. I am now waiting/HOPING that some 3rd party makes a new head for this figure. (Cmoooon HeadRobots!! )

I am and Transforming Toy collector. With some of these 3rd party companies, it's doing for "US" what we are wanting and asking for. If you choose to ignore, or not want to do it, that's your choice, but don't get your panties in a bunch when someone is already doing what was ask for YOU(!!), the official club, to do in the first place. GAWD, just even a weapons kit man...and you don't even do that.

Prime Evil wrote:I've made this statement before.

Even before Fans Project, I have submitted suggestions to help the club, from weapons kits, to armor for some figures. EVERTHING that fans project has done, was pretty much what I asked for the Club to do was done by Fans Project and other 3rd party companies.

If you aren't will/able to offer us what was asked BEFORE why crack down on those that do. Your prices for pieces like Punch/CounterPunch and G2 Ramjet, IMO, is atrocious. It's not like these are new molds. Yet when Fans Project comes out with brand new molds for figures and pieces we are asking for, we still get a brand new figure, from the ground up, with limited resources (not banking off of Hasbro's factories) and still pay less then these "authentic" figures. So excuse me if I don't really care for the cries of the club since suggestions have fallen on def ears. You want to know what us, the consumers, want. How about reading some of those emails we send you. Maybe pay a lil more attention on how to run these things a lil better from a 3rd party companies.

Fans Project, is the PREMIER in 3rd party products to me. They do it right. Even when they do it wrong, they make it right. They show protos online, and then get feed back from the fans. I originally didn't think they needed to do that. I remember when we got proto pics of the "Protector" armor and the wings on the back (in bot mode) weren't prominent enough for the fans. (I personally didn't care) but what did Fans Project do? They integrated new spoilers into their design, into the alt mode and bot mode.

Yet you give us Punch/Counterpunch with a lil PINHEAD, and never once showed us (THE ACTUAL BUYERS) any pics. We all had to buy blind in the hopes that the figure would be fantastic. IMO, it's just ok and overpriced. I am now waiting/HOPING that some 3rd party makes a new head for this figure. (Cmoooon HeadRobots!! )

I am and Transforming Toy collector. With some of these 3rd party companies, it's doing for "US" what we are wanting and asking for. If you choose to ignore, or not want to do it, that's your choice, but don't get your panties in a bunch when someone is already doing what was ask for YOU(!!), the official club, to do in the first place. GAWD, just even a weapons kit man...and you don't even do that.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

WolfDawg wrote:Just read some of the twitter posts that were posted on another website concerning TFCC's dislike towards third party companies. They basically go on a rant saying fans should leave the product creations to Hasbro and anything no licensed by HasTak is "Junk". They also claim no one at the TFCC even owns a City Commander (or any version of that mold in general).

I'm going to call B.S. on their claim no one owns a City Commander, I seem to remember a TFCC cover that had a 'bot pushing Ultra Magnus in his armored form with the word bubble "Move over City Commander." I have to see if I can find an image of it online.

As far as them being again K.O's for the most part I agree with them, unless it is a figure HasTak has shown no interest in producing - Sunstorm for example, is the only K.O. I have ever bought and that is because I wanted the character in my display and after countless Classic styled toylines and countless redecos of the seeker mold we have yet to see him. After seeing the quality of the figure I am highly tempted to pick up the blue rainmaker and a set of the purple clones. I would also be highly tempted if the K.O. classics Cromedome ever comes out.

These kinds of K.O.'s I have less of a problem with because while they are using the same mold of an existing figure, it is more or less a custom repaint ... yes I know the figure is not "authentic" but they are also not taking any money out of HasTaks pocket creating "new" characters from these molds. They are also producing these molds for collectors who know these are not produced by HasTak.

On the other hand I do have a problem with K.O.s that are made specifically to try and fool people by thinking they are buying a legit product.

El Duque wrote:

Prime Evil wrote:I've made this statement before.

Even before Fans Project, I have submitted suggestions to help the club, from weapons kits, to armor for some figures. EVERTHING that fans project has done, was pretty much what I asked for the Club to do was done by Fans Project and other 3rd party companies.

If you aren't will/able to offer us what was asked BEFORE why crack down on those that do. Your prices for pieces like Punch/CounterPunch and G2 Ramjet, IMO, is atrocious. It's not like these are new molds. Yet when Fans Project comes out with brand new molds for figures and pieces we are asking for, we still get a brand new figure, from the ground up, with limited resources (not banking off of Hasbro's factories) and still pay less then these "authentic" figures. So excuse me if I don't really care for the cries of the club since suggestions have fallen on def ears. You want to know what us, the consumers, want. How about reading some of those emails we send you. Maybe pay a lil more attention on how to run these things a lil better from a 3rd party companies.

Fans Project, is the PREMIER in 3rd party products to me. They do it right. Even when they do it wrong, they make it right. They show protos online, and then get feed back from the fans. I originally didn't think they needed to do that. I remember when we got proto pics of the "Protector" armor and the wings on the back (in bot mode) weren't prominent enough for the fans. (I personally didn't care) but what did Fans Project do? They integrated new spoilers into their design, into the alt mode and bot mode.

Yet you give us Punch/Counterpunch with a lil PINHEAD, and never once showed us (THE ACTUAL BUYERS) any pics. We all had to buy blind in the hopes that the figure would be fantastic. IMO, it's just ok and overpriced. I am now waiting/HOPING that some 3rd party makes a new head for this figure. (Cmoooon HeadRobots!! )

I am and Transforming Toy collector. With some of these 3rd party companies, it's doing for "US" what we are wanting and asking for. If you choose to ignore, or not want to do it, that's your choice, but don't get your panties in a bunch when someone is already doing what was ask for YOU(!!), the official club, to do in the first place. GAWD, just even a weapons kit man...and you don't even do that.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

I also echo the sentiment; per emphasis. And, this is coming from former members of the "official collectors club" - pshh, more like o-fail-cial.

In defense of the Club, I think they've been doing some pretty sweet figs the last couple years and it's unrealistic to expect new molds from them. Weapons packs...whatev. The weapons that came with FP's G3 Trailer were pretty sweet, but I couldn't really see the club doing anything more than releasing other figs' weapons in different colors. There could be some potential there, but I'm more interested in what they've been doing lately than that.

As for their stance on 3rd Parties and/or KOs...whatev. Wouldn't really expect someone in a business relationship with HasTak to say otherwise. Why they say anything at all, I dunno. Butthurt because some of their figs are being KO'ed...maybe.

WolfDawg wrote:Just read some of the twitter posts that were posted on another website concerning TFCC's dislike towards third party companies. They basically go on a rant saying fans should leave the product creations to Hasbro and anything no licensed by HasTak is "Junk". They also claim no one at the TFCC even owns a City Commander (or any version of that mold in general).

So yea, I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the 3rd party forum (probably the 3rd party forum), but I just though I'd share this. I personally don't see the harm in fans stepping in where HasTak drops the ball. I mean, we were all waiting for the MP Coneheads to be released by HasTak. It would have been extremely simple for them to give an official release. They dropped the ball and a 3rd party company stepped in and offered some damn good MP Coneheads. I don't see how that's taking money away from Hasbro.

Personally "MY Opinion",It's TFCC & the "Profit" guys fault. the TFCC toys are too high to begin with. to make matters worse the "profit" guys swoop in buying everything up & double/tripple+the original price.
TFCC doesn't care & Encourgaes it. If TFCC wanted to defeat the "profit" guys. they'd create laws & strategizes in place to defeat the "Profit" guys. like selling half of their stock of botcon toys at the convention only 1 per person. then the other half of their bitcon toys stock on the hasbro.com web site for regular prices with free shipping over $50 as a incentive.

Honestly you can't be mad at the fans. if going the 3rd party route is the only way for them to buy these TFCC Botcon/club toys at decent regular non "Profit" prices.

Being mad at the 3rd party companies also makes no sense. their is fan demand for these TFCC Botcon/club toys at NORMAL non-profit prices. these 3rd party compaies exist & flourish because the fans need them & thus these 3rd party companies are providing a valuble service.

Instead of TFCC getting mad at these 3rd party companies. why not transfer that energy into making the convention/club toys more accessible to everyone & try to actually put laws/strategies in place to defeat the "PROFIT" guys.

Some TF fans simply have chosen to do without & not give into the "profit" botcon sellers on ebay's high prices. NOW Theirs a way to NOT do without. and have a chance to own stuff at non-bank breaking prices.

If the only way for some fans to be able to afford the TFCC Botcon/club toys is to go the 3rd party TF toy company route. then I say more power to them & reach for the stars. they get to enjoy something for a cheap price without getting ripped off by the "profit" guys.

You guys are really harsh on the club. first of all, you guys forget that in the end, it is Hasbro's deal, trademark and Brand. Saying that because they haven't made "X repaint" is just fooling yourself. It took Hasbro roughly six years to bring us Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge. Hasbro's response to "well you weren't releasing "Sunstorm, Ghost of.." would be, well we haven't gotten to it YET.

Now, where I Stand against Hasbro, is when KO, and or 3P takes on remaking Exclusives. I think Exclusives at Conventions should be Done away with. If it's not made available to the mass Market, then expect it to come out as a KO later. Or if the original exclusive's market value exceeds 50$ a piece on eBay, it means new collectors or kids want to complete their "team" or "group" or "seekers".

The Idea that we need to follow some "don't release X/Y/Z because it hurts the value of the original" is a freaking joke. These are toys, some guy in his Mom's basement shouldn't be using it as a way to put gas in his tank. if Hasbro plans on releasing (for example) Dirge, ThunderCracker and Thrust. Then they should try to work in the other seekers that year as store exclusives. That way everyone has a chance at having the group without paying exorbitant costs on eBay. Or in the least plan on it. I mean Why were the seekers broken up over 7 years?


Onto 3parties? They are a necessary Evil. I say that because yes, some of these toys are on the line of being illegal. On the other hand, they enhance the look of existing Hastek product. IMO, if Hasbro stopped trying to serve as it's own police, they should communicate with those companies and plan items based on what the 3P are working on. I mean imagine how many more Bruticus and Superion sets Hasbro would sell if they re-released them when FP re-released them. Imagine how many more RTS G2 Prime's will sell once MT comes out with the trailer? Just look at Hot Rod for that marketing game.
Heck, Hasbro tells MT "hey we are going to release a Black G2 Prime mold, make a black trailer.

To me the club means something completely different, they do the convention. I stay in the club just to have the chance to go to the convention. They mean nothing else to me.
You guys really need to realize even if the club is smacking at KO's and 3P products, it might be from pressure coming from RI.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:After Kreo, HasTak has lost the some of the moral high ground on this. But kudos to them if none of them own a 3rd party product. Although ... really? Hm. I wonder.

The botcon "profit" guys have no problem selling botcon toys for inflated prices on Ebay & Ripping fans off. but it's deemed wrong/evil to buy a 3rd party TF toy product? RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!! with the way these people think,it's no wonder hardly anyone cares about them.

alldarker wrote:I think he means that Hasbro's Kreon is a cheap Lego imitation: Hasbro is taking advantage of a concept that Lego first dreamt up.

Hasbro nor Takara Created the KRE-O's concept/designs/toys.

Hasbro nor Takara don't own Kre-o

Kre-o's have been around for years. all hasbro or takara did was approach the Kre-o Company & ask them to make a few stuff in TF themed designs sets.

deathy wrote:

alldarker wrote:I think he means that Hasbro's Kreon is a cheap Lego imitation: Hasbro is taking advantage of a concept that Lego first dreamt up.

Hasbro nor Takara Created the KRE-O's concept/designs/toys.

Hasbro nor Takara don't own Kre-o

Kre-o's have been around for years. all hasbro or takara did was approach the Kre-o Company & ask them to make a few stuff in TF themed designs sets.

I've never heard of Kre-O before these sets were released and I can't find any info on a Kre-O company. What else have they produced and why isn't there any other company info other than Hasbro on the box?

I must've missed the memo of the existence of international intellectual property laws and the ability of said laws to be enforced in places like China - a sovereign nation, mind you... Make no mistake about it, these are not made in the USA - let alone engineered, printed, or packaged here. The sale of Chinese transforming robots is also, to my knowledge, completely legitimate within our online and brick/mortar retailers - ask the authority in sweatshop profiteering Walmart. I buy what's available; I cannot transform - screw it; play with conceptual brand loyalty. I transform wonderfully sculpted and engineered plastic toys. If you got a problem with that, I must remind you that your issues with my buying habits make it all the more blissful. In essence...