Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Wolfman Jake wrote:That's interesting information, but still says NOTHING about why Hasbro decided to give their Computron a repaint of Superion's head instead of a new sculpt, as Takara Tomy was obviously more than happy to do in a time frame that would have gotten the product out to market BEFORE Hasbro's time frame anyway.

Na man, they totally say why right here:

So, a lot of what you see here is an homage to the past, but as John and Eddie have talked about, a lot of what we’re doing too is an eye towards the future of bringing new fans in and kind of giving us a chance to tell a new story versus kinda being chained to only the old stories.

Which means "we do what we want and dont care if its not accurate or if it looks like we are cutting corners, woohoo!".

Hey guys,

I’ll chime in too, if you don’t mind.

I love MP, and I love Generations. I love what they do. I also like what Logan is doing. I like comparing the original character to their different incarnations over the years. For me I am interested in how well the toy captures the essence, attitude, and feel of the character.

Legends Shockwave isn’t MP Shockwave but the legends update/modification is great and absolutely feels like Shockwave even if he isn’t cartoon accurate. I really like the different take and find it very interesting, informative, and fun, seeing them side by side.

How can you take something from earlier and update but retain the feel of the character. In fact, we could even compare cartoon G1 Optimus to CG Transformers Prime Optimus. Totally different look and style, but really captures the feel and look of the character. Different attitudes, for different circumstances but same feel.

FOC Blaster has a different alt mode but the robot mode really captures the figure. So it would be fun to see those side by side for instance as well. I’m not looking for accuracy but instead similarities and or improvements.

TK415 wrote:Hey guys,

I’ll chime in too, if you don’t mind.

I love MP, and I love Generations. I love what they do. I also like what Logan is doing. I like comparing the original character to their different incarnations over the years. For me I am interested in how well the toy captures the essence, attitude, and feel of the character.

Legends Shockwave isn’t MP Shockwave but the legends update/modification is great and absolutely feels like Shockwave even if he isn’t cartoon accurate. I really like the different take and find it very interesting, informative, and fun, seeing them side by side.

How can you take something from earlier and update but retain the feel of the character. In fact, we could even compare cartoon G1 Optimus to CG Transformers Prime Optimus. Totally different look and style, but really captures the feel and look of the character. Different attitudes, for different circumstances but same feel.

FOC Blaster has a different alt mode but the robot mode really captures the figure. So it would be fun to see those side by side for instance as well. I’m not looking for accuracy but instead similarities and or improvements.

I agree; I would to move the attention on the mold, not only on the painting (also very important that); for example, I think there are three different levels of accuracy:

Very similar




Different, but it updates and captures the figure




Completely different



Then I use always my models galleries pics for these comparisons; for example, I have the Unite Warriors Devy and I will use that for the next comparisons.^ ^

Updated the first post

Hoist being so different is due to his toy not being based on the cartoon model but instead being a redeco/remold of the Trailcutter toy that was based on Alex Milne's Cybertronian robot mode design for Trailbreaker/Trailcutter for IDW's MTMTE comics.



Which, despite this being a comic design rather than a cartoon design, the deco on Takara's toy once again skews closer in accuracy to this design than Hasbro's does:



As for Hoist himself, he'd eventually (and spontaneously) gain his toy body in the comics via his Spotlight issue, but which Hasbro's toy is this time closer to in color (with its yellow visor) than Takara's toy (as Takara this time went for toy-accuracy w/ a blue visor with theirs):

So then there is some merrit to the idea that the toys do take hints from the comics. Other examples I stumbled across were Skids, Ultra Magnus, Springer and Stealth Bomber Megatron.

IDW comics... true, an idea for more interesting comparisons^^

william-james88 wrote:So then there is some merrit to the idea that the toys do take hints from the comics. Other examples I stumbled across were Skids, Ultra Magnus, Springer and Stealth Bomber Megatron.

Yeah, all of the following Generations toys are based on designs that originated in either the comics or by the comics' artists:

Deluxe Autobot Drift
Deluxe Blurr
Deluxe Thunderwing (namely his headsculpt design)
Japanese Deluxe Ratbat (his headsculpt design)
Legends class Optimus Prime
Legends class Starscream
Legends class Megatron
Legends class Swerve
Legends class Tailgate
Deluxe Trailcutter
Deluxe Orion Pax
Deluxe Megatron
Deluxe Bumblebee
Deluxe Autobot Skids
Voyager Autobot Springer
Voyager Autobot Whirl (his head and legs are inspired by his MTMTE design, but not directly based on them)
Voyager Sky-Byte (certain elements like the details on his right arm are based on his IDW design)
Voyager Brainstorm
Legends class Thundercracker
Legends class Skywarp
Leader Thundercracker
Leader Ultra Magnus
Leader Starscream
Leader Skywarp
Legends class Autobot Rewind
Deluxe Chromedome (robot mode is his "Shadowplay" body)
Voyager Sentinel Prime (his face is based on IDW Sentinel's armored up face)

Thanks for the list Sabr, but I find the inclusion for the leader seekers hard to swallow. They feel like the best example of the reverse causality. Leader Jetfire came first, Hasbro wanted a redeco and made thems seekers and then made a mandate to have that design in the book that always had starscream change bodies anyway.

Updated the FIRST POST

william-james88 wrote:Thanks for the list Sabr, but I find the inclusion for the leader seekers hard to swallow. They feel like the best example of the reverse causality. Leader Jetfire came first, Hasbro wanted a redeco and made thems seekers and then made a mandate to have that design in the book that always had starscream change bodies anyway.

Guido Guidi had already made his Seeker design back in 2010:



Only Thundercracker got to appear in this form in the comics at the time, and when Leader Jetfire was retooled into Thundercracker, the molded aesthetic elements of the retool were those specific to Guidi's Seeker design.

Starscream's body change was due to the Leader toy, yes, but the design of said Leader toy was derived from Guidi's original 2010 Seeker design.

Very interesting, thanks Sabrblade

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Thanks for the list Sabr, but I find the inclusion for the leader seekers hard to swallow. They feel like the best example of the reverse causality. Leader Jetfire came first, Hasbro wanted a redeco and made thems seekers and then made a mandate to have that design in the book that always had starscream change bodies anyway.

Guido Guido had already made his Seeker design back in 2010:



Only Thundercracker got to appear in this form in the comics at the time, and when Leader Jetfire was retooled into Thundercracker, the molded aesthetic elements of the retool were those specific to Guidi's Seeker design.

Starscream's body change was due to the Leader toy, yes, but the design of said Leader toy was derived from Guidi's original 2010 Seeker design.

So its a feedback loop. But that means that the toys take some elements from the comics but are still not the incarnations of the comic book characters, right? For instance, TR LEgends Rewind takes some hints from the comics but it isnt the comic rewind due to the fact that the alt modes are completely different.

Whirl was an interesting design too, not straightforward comics at all but not just G1 either.

Pretty sure one could make an entire book for the show accuracy lottery that is "should I get the Hasbro or Takara version of this Armada/Energon/Cybertron toy?" That's an insane journey. I gave up and just started buying all of them

Really, really super cool thread by the way. I hope you continue it, and if I'm not lazy maybe one day I'll help contribute on non-G1 lines.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Thanks for the list Sabr, but I find the inclusion for the leader seekers hard to swallow. They feel like the best example of the reverse causality. Leader Jetfire came first, Hasbro wanted a redeco and made thems seekers and then made a mandate to have that design in the book that always had starscream change bodies anyway.

Guido Guido had already made his Seeker design back in 2010:



Only Thundercracker got to appear in this form in the comics at the time, and when Leader Jetfire was retooled into Thundercracker, the molded aesthetic elements of the retool were those specific to Guidi's Seeker design.

Starscream's body change was due to the Leader toy, yes, but the design of said Leader toy was derived from Guidi's original 2010 Seeker design.

So its a feedback loop. But that means that the toys take some elements from the comics but are still not the incarnations of the comic book characters, right? For instance, TR LEgends Rewind takes some hints from the comics but it isnt the comic rewind due to the fact that the alt modes are completely different.

Whirl was an interesting design too, not straightforward comics at all but not just G1 either.

I was mostly just going by which toys were based on preexisting designs from the comics or comic artists, rather than listing which toys are specifically meant to be physical representations of the IDW comic versions of the fictional characters.

In the aforementioned case of Starscream, Guidi made his Seeker design (which only Thundercracker got to use at the time), then Hasbro later retooled Leader Jetfire to look like Guidi's Seeker design (which was fittingly first made into Thundercracker, the one Seeker who had ever used the design in the comics at the time), and then when the retooled Leader mold was made into Starscream, the comics decided to have Starscream upgrade himself into a new form based on this retooled Leader mold that was in turn based on Guidi's Seeker design. So it is a very wacky circle "comic --> toy --> comic".

ScottyP wrote:Really, really super cool thread by the way. I hope you continue it, and if I'm not lazy maybe one day I'll help contribute on non-G1 lines.

Thanks Scotty^^

Updated the FIRST POST

Regarding the design of the leader seekers, they're pretty much aesthetically the same as the design of the legend size versions (in robot mode anyway), aren't they?

Optimum Supreme wrote:Regarding the design of the leader seekers, they're pretty much aesthetically the same as the design of the legend size versions (in robot mode anyway), aren't they?

Not the wings, and there are no pieces rising at the sides of his head. Only the chest is inspired the rest is all different.

Logan! This is FANTASTIC! I really dig what your doing.

Guys, sorry, but I find it a bit rude to tell Logan what would be a "better comparison". These comparisons are fun and a treat to see. They are a neat window into how Logan sees the TF Universe, and how he plays with his toys ,and his camera, and his computer, on his time, in his collection.
You can't tell a man how to play with his own toys.

Again. Awesome stuff Logan. Sorry I just now found this thread.
Can't wait to see more!

Excellent work as per usual Logan79!! Keep it up, and let me know if I can help with figures I may have if you don't. Or Cobotron. He has everything

Logan, beautiful job. When I first commented I said that I liked what you were doing. The more you post the more impressed I am by how your posts are constructed. It would be simple and easy to just put two pictures side by side. The care and attention to detail that you incorporate in your photos and comparisons is awesome. Your images look great.

The poses of the figures are really cool and fun. It is cool seeing scenes from the shows. The layout of the images that you put together are nicely composed, easy to look at, dynamic, and informative. Lots of fun. Great job, thank you.

Really, really, really thanks.^^

Updating:













... And thanks to your valued enthusiasm, I have completely edited the FIRST POST, a surprise for you.^ ^

Updated the FIRST POST