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Why is it that his spark is the only one that cannot be destroyed as well as Rampage? Does Starscream have the matrix of conquest or had contract with it?

Well, the Underbase saga supposedly changed him, just read "race with the devil" to see the "undead" Starscream.

Ummmm, the only place that was mentioned was Beast Wars, at which point we're talking about cartoon continuity here, not comics...so not the Underbase.

All that was said was that Starscream possessed a mutant indestructible spark, which pretty much means that it was just created that way. No explanation was ever given.

Loki120 wrote:Ummmm, the only place that was mentioned was Beast Wars, at which point we're talking about cartoon continuity here, not comics...so not the Underbase.

Beast Wars could be connected to either, now Beast Machines on the other hand has more references to the cartoon.

Stormwolf wrote:

Loki120 wrote:Ummmm, the only place that was mentioned was Beast Wars, at which point we're talking about cartoon continuity here, not comics...so not the Underbase.

Beast Wars could be connected to either, now Beast Machines on the other hand has more references to the cartoon.

How would that be possible?

It's based on the cartoon series, with vague references from the comic thrown in.
When Blackarachnia confront Starscream, she blatently tells him that he was blasted by Galvatron not Unicron, this happened in the cartoon. Starscream and Galvatron never met in the comics.
Second, the Ark is exactly as seen in the original cartoon. It looks nothing like what's seen in the comics, same with the Nemesis.
And since Beast Machines (like it or not) is a direct continuation of Beast Wars, the hopes and dreams that Beast Wars was spawned from the comics is indeed nothing more than wishful thinking.

Edit: Also just thought of a third, with Teletran 1 on the Ark. Teletran 1 didn't exist in the comics.

Matrix of Conquest? That wasn't invented until Shockaract came out, and that's only comic book canon.

1: starscream has a mutant spark that cannot be destroyed

2: ravage never died, he just had his body rebuilt to be more accomadating to the predacons

3: the matrix of conquest was a lie, told by the quintessons to entice galvertron to fight for them!

Thunder Trhuster and Loki are correct. The reason why Starscream's spark can't be extinguished is becuase he has what is referred to as an abbereant spark. His spark is indestructible, which is why he can survive even having his brain casing destroyed utterly. In TF: More than Meets the Eye #8, under the section on Sparks, subsection Further Exploration, it says:

It is rumored that certain sparks carry their own special powers, granting some Cybertronians super-mechanical powers beyond their design [see Special Abilities]. While this is open for debate, there are some notable cases of abberant sparks having strange qualities. The most popular case is the infamous Decepticon Starscream, who, purportedly had an indestructible spark that could not be extinguished, and could even posess other beings. Further research and experimentation on the subject is currently proceeding.

Tramp wrote:Thunder Trhuster and Loki are correct. The reason why Starscream's spark can't be extinguished is becuase he has what is referred to as an abbereant spark. His spark is indestructible, which is why he can survive even having his brain casing destroyed utterly. In TF: More than Meets the Eye #8, under the section on Sparks, subsection Further Exploration, it says:

It is rumored that certain sparks carry their own special powers, granting some Cybertronians super-mechanical powers beyond their design [see Special Abilities]. While this is open for debate, there are some notable cases of abberant sparks having strange qualities. The most popular case is the infamous Decepticon Starscream, who, purportedly had an indestructible spark that could not be extinguished, and could even posess other beings. Further research and experimentation on the subject is currently proceeding.

Guess Waspinator had an abhorrent spark then too, for he could take massive damage without being killed

Starscream was a scientist, and a good one at that, any chance he possibly altered his own spark at any point? Would make a good story arc imo.

Not Abhorrant, Aberrant. Abhorant means to feel extreme repugnence or aversion to something. Aberrant means deviating from the norm; unusual or abnormal.

Tramp wrote:Not Abhorrant, Aberrant. Abhorant means to feel extreme repugnence or aversion to something. Aberrant means deviating from the norm; unusual or abnormal.

Sorry, that'll learn me to think the word's spelling doesn't quite look right!

So after every other Tf dies, their spark becomes no more?

Zombie Starscream wrote:So after every other Tf dies, their spark becomes no more?

After a TF dies, the spark is supposed to rejoin the Allspark of Primus. An Aberrant spark like Starscream's remains like a spectre, and can posess others or re-inhabit a new body.

Loki120 wrote:When Blackarachnia confront Starscream, she blatently tells him that he was blasted by Galvatron not Unicron, this happened in the cartoon. Starscream and Galvatron never met in the comics.

You're wrong

Very wrong

Anywho, Starscream was probably killed (again) when Galvatron II returned (or is it technically Galvatron III?).

Loki120 wrote:Second, the Ark is exactly as seen in the original cartoon. It looks nothing like what's seen in the comics, same with the Nemesis.

The Ark never looked consistant in the comics. But the Nemesis on the other hand did.

Just look for yourself.

The Nemesis crash was also left open by Furman, we don't actually see it crash on screen (just rewatch that last part).

And the Autobot ship was never refered to as the Ark in the cartoons. Furthermore, Optimus Prime is sitting in the command chair (like in the comics), instead of hanging on a console (like the cartoons)


And then there's tons of other things (which on second thought bring BM closer to the comics):

- Ravage was actually a spy/assassin like in the comics. He was no more then a animal in the Cartoons. Furthermore, his loyalty to G1 Megatron is a exact copy of his persona in "Rise and fall of the Decepticon empire". Also Ravage's ability to conceal himself was only shown the comic, not the cartoon (well seeing how easily cartoon Ravage got caught).

- Sparks, remember those things? I do:
1 2 3

- Alignment shows the beginning of the Beast Era. The Leaders of that early era were Ultra Magnus, Prowl and Soundwave. Prowl and Soundwave can be seen in a Scrapyard during Beast Machines (eventhough Prowl was long dead in the cartoon).

- Dinobot is a obvious carboncopy of Carnivac ("Way of the warrior" arc to be more specific).

- Optimus Prime died in the final battle, which was described in Alignment. Atleast that's what BM Megatron confirmed.

- Primus got mentioned a couple of times.

- Furman wrote a BW ep and had contact with the other writers. His influence should be obvious.

- The Vok were supposed to be the evolved Swarm (this was confirmed in various interviews).

- BW era TF's are the product of combining Micromaster and Pretender tech. Neither of those existed in the US cartoon (in the Japanese cartoon they did).

- BM Megatron's merging with various sparks was also done by Liege Maximo in alignment. The Warworlds were present at the time and it was probably recorded.

- The timestorm from the end of Timewars appears when BW Megatron shoots G1 Prime's head. It similarly sucks stuff in and erases them from existance.

- Cartoon Cybertron was fully energized near the end. Comic Cybertron was depleted and the TF's had to downsize and conserve fuel. There was never any need for downsizing in the cartoons.

- BW/BM Cybertron supposedly had massive populations like in the comics. Cartoon Cybertron seemed empty.

- Liege Maximo was techno organic, same as the BM TF's.

- Primal had a instinctive fear of Unicron, this was also seen with the G1 TF's in "Edge of Extinction".

- Rattrap mentioned bars on Cybertron, those also featured in the comic. In the Cartoon we never saw any of those.

Now here's all 4 cartoon references:
1. The Ark had its cartoon shape
2. Starscream's "ghost" makes a appearance
3. The Plasma energy chamber
4. The Key to Vector Sigma

Just a few points.

Stormwolf wrote:

Loki120 wrote:When Blackarachnia confront Starscream, she blatently tells him that he was blasted by Galvatron not Unicron, this happened in the cartoon. Starscream and Galvatron never met in the comics.

You're wrong

Very wrong

Anywho, Starscream was probably killed (again) when Galvatron II returned (or is it technically Galvatron III?).

I highly doubt they're based their continuity on, what at the time, was a highly obscure story from the UK. This is an obvious reference to Starscream's demise during TF the movie. This is a stretch.
EDIT: And this encounter doesn't play true. Starscream wasn't blasted and killed by Galvatron, so this evidence means nothing.

Loki120 wrote:Second, the Ark is exactly as seen in the original cartoon. It looks nothing like what's seen in the comics, same with the Nemesis.

The Ark never looked consistant in the comics. But the Nemesis on the other hand did.

Just look for yourself.

The Nemesis crash was also left open by Furman, we don't actually see it crash on screen (just rewatch that last part).

And the Autobot ship was never refered to as the Ark in the cartoons. Furthermore, Optimus Prime is sitting in the command chair (like in the comics), instead of hanging on a console (like the cartoons)

All that image of the Nemesis shows me is that they used the cartoon as a point of reference for when they drew it.

1. The Ark and Nemesis are from the cartoon. The names were added because...well, what else where you going to call them?
2. I don't remember Optimus ever having a command chair in the comics. He did have one in the cartoon, and his position could have been changed during 4 million years of seismic activity. It was a volcano after all.

And then there's tons of other things (which on second thought bring BM closer to the comics):

Wow...there's a lot...a lot of circumstantial evidence here. Where do I begin...

- Ravage was actually a spy/assassin like in the comics. He was no more then a animal in the Cartoons. Furthermore, his loyalty to G1 Megatron is a exact copy of his persona in "Rise and fall of the Decepticon empire". Also Ravage's ability to conceal himself was only shown the comic, not the cartoon (well seeing how easily cartoon Ravage got caught).

I've never been a big fan of people using highly subjective things like personalities as evidence, which can vary from writer to writer. Personally, I never seen that much difference between the comic ravage and the cartoon ravage. Keeping in mind, I know that UK comic ravage actually talked a lot more, but that's stretching to encompass the UK comics again.

- Sparks, remember those things? I do:
1 2 3

Yes, vague reference to "sparks", all of which are obviously not the same context as the Sparks which were established in BW.

- Alignment shows the beginning of the Beast Era. The Leaders of that early era were Ultra Magnus, Prowl and Soundwave. Prowl and Soundwave can be seen in a Scrapyard during Beast Machines (eventhough Prowl was long dead in the cartoon).

Alignment is glorified fan fiction, a convention exclusive. Tells me nothing. Animation models were constantly reused throughout BM. I remember seeing at least 3 different Soundwaves. Not once do I believe that any one of them is the original Soundwave.

- Dinobot is a obvious carboncopy of Carnivac ("Way of the warrior" arc to be more specific).

I don't get what your grabbing at here. You're saying that Carnivac is Dinobot? Otherwise, it is truely amazing what can happen when you have time to develop a character who is not overshadowed by a huge cast. Two characters with similar personalities is not evidence.

- Optimus Prime died in the final battle, which was described in Alignment. Atleast that's what BM Megatron confirmed.

Don't remember this. I'll to go back and check. I don't remember any direct references to Liege Maximo or the aliegnment in BM. Anything else is circumstantial at best.

- Primus got mentioned a couple of times.

Yes, it's called a homage. And the series is all the better for it.

- Furman wrote a BW ep and had contact with the other writers. His influence should be obvious.

Uh huh, and Joss Whedon writes Astonshing X-Men, but I don't for a moment believe they exist in the same universe and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

- The Vok were supposed to be the evolved Swarm (this was confirmed in various interviews).

Ahh, yes. The strongest evidence to date. But alas, never established in any episode. I've read the interview. From my recollection, they thought it would be cool to somehow incorporate the aliens into the Swarm. But at no point in G2 were they ever referred to as the Vok, and at no point in the show were they referred to as the Swarm. And the two writers had different ideas as to who the Vok were. Bob Forward wanted to make them evolved humans who have outgrown the need for physical bodies. Which one of them was right?

- BW era TF's are the product of combining Micromaster and Pretender tech. Neither of those existed in the US cartoon (in the Japanese cartoon they did).

Never established in ANY episode. They're only referred to as the Maximal Upgrades. Granted, it's a logical conclusion, but it's still not evidence.
Besides, if the cartoon would have continued, these characters would have been included as well.

- BM Megatron's merging with various sparks was also done by Liege Maximo in alignment. The Warworlds were present at the time and it was probably recorded.

Never established or mentioned. Not evidence.

- The timestorm from the end of Timewars appears when BW Megatron shoots G1 Prime's head. It similarly sucks stuff in and erases them from existance.

Don't remember anything being erased from existence. Similar events, nothing more.

- Cartoon Cybertron was fully energized near the end. Comic Cybertron was depleted and the TF's had to downsize and conserve fuel. There was never any need for downsizing in the cartoons.

- BW/BM Cybertron supposedly had massive populations like in the comics. Cartoon Cybertron seemed empty.

- Liege Maximo was techno organic, same as the BM TF's.

- Primal had a instinctive fear of Unicron, this was also seen with the G1 TF's in "Edge of Extinction".

- Rattrap mentioned bars on Cybertron, those also featured in the comic. In the Cartoon we never saw any of those.

All of this can be lumped into circumstantial evidence...at best. Quintessons were Techno-organic, as were their experiments the Transorganics. Just because bars were never mentioned, doesn't mean they don't exist. And you have a giant robot attack your planet and see if you don't possess a healthy fear of it - 300 years a long time to develop something to legendary status.

Now here's all 4 cartoon references:
1. The Ark had its cartoon shape
2. Starscream's "ghost" makes a appearance
3. The Plasma energy chamber
4. The Key to Vector Sigma

Just a few points.

yeah...there were a lot more than 4, and all of them were hard evidence to the contrary, as opposed to just the circumstantial.

5. Teletran 1.
6. The Hate Plague.
7. Vector Sigma (seen inside the Oracle)
8. Rattrap's reference to Unicron's head when seeing the giant Megatron head.
9. Megatron's appearance looks like his cartoon counterpart, not his comic.
10. The Matrix's appearance, and Optimus' internal mechanics. All from the Movie.
11. The Nemesis, and internal bridge all taken from MTMTE.

Loki120 wrote:I highly doubt they're based their continuity on, what at the time, was a highly obscure story from the UK. This is an obvious reference to Starscream's demise during TF the movie. This is a stretch.
EDIT: And this encounter doesn't play true. Starscream wasn't blasted and killed by Galvatron, so this evidence means nothing.

Obscure to you maybe, but the BW writers actually did lots of research on TF's when they wanted to get a alternate line for "oh my god". That's when first Primus popped up and more stuff got added along the road.

And Starscream got killed in various timelines and probably didn't survive beyond G2 when Galvatron II woke up.

Loki120 wrote:1. The Ark and Nemesis are from the cartoon. The names were added because...well, what else where you going to call them?
2. I don't remember Optimus ever having a command chair in the comics. He did have one in the cartoon, and his position could have been changed during 4 million years of seismic activity. It was a volcano after all.

Added to the chair comment, it was where Prime was sitting where he pressed the buttons to crash the Ark.

Additionally, a 3D version of Ratchet's platform is used by Rhinox to repair Optimus Prime's head. It's pretty accurately based on the art depicted in "Repeat Performances".

And added to that, G1 Prime's Matrix/spark was confirmed to have been a animation mistake. The writers were unaware of the physical Matrix when they wrote the episode (and thought that it would have a been a cool spark chamber).

Loki120 wrote:I've never been a big fan of people using highly subjective things like personalities as evidence, which can vary from writer to writer. Personally, I never seen that much difference between the comic ravage and the cartoon ravage. Keeping in mind, I know that UK comic ravage actually talked a lot more, but that's stretching to encompass the UK comics again.

US Ravage talked a lot during the early US run. It's also where we saw him use his stealth capabilities. The differences between Comic and Cartoon Ravage mostly based on the fact that Comic Ravage is as sentient as any regular TF.

Loki120 wrote:Yes, vague reference to "sparks", all of which are obviously not the same context as the Sparks which were established in BW.

Other then their lifeforce/essence? I think that's kinda the whole point of a spark.

Loki120 wrote:Alignment is glorified fan fiction, a convention exclusive. Tells me nothing. Animation models were constantly reused throughout BM. I remember seeing at least 3 different Soundwaves. Not once do I believe that any one of them is the original Soundwave.

Alignment is a wrapup for the G2 comics.

Loki120 wrote:I don't get what your grabbing at here. You're saying that Carnivac is Dinobot?

Ermm what?

Loki120 wrote:Don't remember this. I'll to go back and check. I don't remember any direct references to Liege Maximo or the aliegnment in BM. Anything else is circumstantial at best.

Prime got killed by Galvatron II, although Grimlock put him in a stasisfield the second before he could die. So he probably kicked the bucket later on.

Loki120 wrote:

- Furman wrote a BW ep and had contact with the other writers. His influence should be obvious.

Uh huh, and Joss Whedon writes Astonshing X-Men, but I don't for a moment believe they exist in the same universe and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Well TF is one big franchise, X-men and Buffy are two different franchises.

Great comparison

Loki120 wrote:

- The Vok were supposed to be the evolved Swarm (this was confirmed in various interviews).

Ahh, yes. The strongest evidence to date. But alas, never established in any episode. I've read the interview. From my recollection, they thought it would be cool to somehow incorporate the aliens into the Swarm. But at no point in G2 were they ever referred to as the Vok, and at no point in the show were they referred to as the Swarm. And the two writers had different ideas as to who the Vok were. Bob Forward wanted to make them evolved humans who have outgrown the need for physical bodies. Which one of them was right?

Well, we're probably never going to see the answer to that one. But the Swarm was considered. Which brings me back to my point that the BW writers had access to comic material.

Loki120 wrote:

- BW era TF's are the product of combining Micromaster and Pretender tech. Neither of those existed in the US cartoon (in the Japanese cartoon they did).

Never established in ANY episode. They're only referred to as the Maximal Upgrades. Granted, it's a logical conclusion, but it's still not evidence.
Besides, if the cartoon would have continued, these characters would have been included as well.

True, but it was given in DW's MTMTE #8, and that one is considered canon according to Hasbro.

Loki120 wrote:

- BM Megatron's merging with various sparks was also done by Liege Maximo in alignment. The Warworlds were present at the time and it was probably recorded.

Never established or mentioned. Not evidence.

So neither Megs or Liege Maximo did a spark merging with thousands/millions of sparks? Gee, I must be going senile.

Loki120 wrote:

- The timestorm from the end of Timewars appears when BW Megatron shoots G1 Prime's head. It similarly sucks stuff in and erases them from existance.

Don't remember anything being erased from existence. Similar events, nothing more.

It would have sucked in the Maximals like it did with Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge. Read up on Timewars and then rewatch the episode again.

Loki120 wrote:

- Cartoon Cybertron was fully energized near the end. Comic Cybertron was depleted and the TF's had to downsize and conserve fuel. There was never any need for downsizing in the cartoons.

- BW/BM Cybertron supposedly had massive populations like in the comics. Cartoon Cybertron seemed empty.

- Liege Maximo was techno organic, same as the BM TF's.

- Primal had a instinctive fear of Unicron, this was also seen with the G1 TF's in "Edge of Extinction".

- Rattrap mentioned bars on Cybertron, those also featured in the comic. In the Cartoon we never saw any of those.

All of this can be lumped into circumstantial evidence...at best. Quintessons were Techno-organic, as were their experiments the Transorganics. Just because bars were never mentioned, doesn't mean they don't exist. And you have a giant robot attack your planet and see if you don't possess a healthy fear of it - 300 years a long time to develop something to legendary status.

Who's being subjective now?

The Quintessons were never mentioned to be techno-organic, but Liege Maximo was.

Loki120 wrote:

Now here's all 4 cartoon references:
1. The Ark had its cartoon shape
2. Starscream's "ghost" makes a appearance
3. The Plasma energy chamber
4. The Key to Vector Sigma

Just a few points.

yeah...there were a lot more than 4, and all of them were hard evidence to the contrary, as opposed to just the circumstantial.

5. Teletran 1.
6. The Hate Plague.
7. Vector Sigma (seen inside the Oracle)
8. Rattrap's reference to Unicron's head when seeing the giant Megatron head.
9. Megatron's appearance looks like his cartoon counterpart, not his comic.
10. The Matrix's appearance, and Optimus' internal mechanics. All from the Movie.
11. The Nemesis, and internal bridge all taken from MTMTE.

5. I'll give you that one
6. That one too
7. Yup, forgot about that one
8. Unicron also lost his head in atleast 2 comic timelines.
9. Well that's subjective, I thought that he was closer to his toy.
10. Those were also used in the comics, and better read my earlier comment on how the animators kinda messed up there.
11. Sure, why not use a cool design?


Aynwho, after rereading it all, I came to the conclusion that neither cartoon nor comic is 100% compatible with Beastwars.

The closest thing we have is probably DW's G1 (since IDW did a reboot without connecting to BW).

Stormwolf wrote:And Starscream got killed in various timelines and probably didn't survive beyond G2 when Galvatron II woke up.

Ummm, still not seeing it. Galvatron II never appeared in G2 (please provide reference), and Starscream NEVER met his demise at his hands in the comic.
Still a cartoon reference.

Added to the chair comment, it was where Prime was sitting where he pressed the buttons to crash the Ark.

Suggest you look again. No chair.

Additionally, a 3D version of Ratchet's platform is used by Rhinox to repair Optimus Prime's head. It's pretty accurately based on the art depicted in "Repeat Performances".

But totally different sizes. Ratchet would be the same size as Rhinox if that were true. The designers clearly just used the platform in the comic as a design.

And added to that, G1 Prime's Matrix/spark was confirmed to have been a animation mistake. The writers were unaware of the physical Matrix when they wrote the episode (and thought that it would have a been a cool spark chamber).

Not an animation mistake, per se. The mistake was in being unaware between the difference between a Prime's spark, and the Matrix itself. This was fudged a bit with a comment made by Rhinox where he says "Prime's spark is already merging with the Matrix."

US Ravage talked a lot during the early US run. It's also where we saw him use his stealth capabilities. The differences between Comic and Cartoon Ravage mostly based on the fact that Comic Ravage is as sentient as any regular TF.

He also possessed stealth capabilities in the cartoon. They had to use infrared to detect him in one early episode.

Loki120 wrote:I don't get what your grabbing at here. You're saying that Carnivac is Dinobot?

Ermm what?

You're evidence included that they based Dinobot's personality on Carnivac. This is still not evidence, unless you're implying that they are one and the same. All you pointed out is that they're similar, nothing more.

Loki120 wrote:Don't remember this. I'll to go back and check. I don't remember any direct references to Liege Maximo or the aliegnment in BM. Anything else is circumstantial at best.

Prime got killed by Galvatron II, although Grimlock put him in a stasisfield the second before he could die. So he probably kicked the bucket later on.

Prime could have met his end in any number of ways. This doesn't necessarily mean we HAVE to take his death from Alignment, or wherever this came from.

Loki120 wrote:

- Furman wrote a BW ep and had contact with the other writers. His influence should be obvious.

Uh huh, and Joss Whedon writes Astonshing X-Men, but I don't for a moment believe they exist in the same universe and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Well TF is one big franchise, X-men and Buffy are two different franchises.

Great comparison

But yet they share the same writer. You're evidence included that since they possessed the same writer, they were somehow connected. Just pointing out that that isn't the case.

Never established in ANY episode. They're only referred to as the Maximal Upgrades. Granted, it's a logical conclusion, but it's still not evidence.
Besides, if the cartoon would have continued, these characters would have been included as well.

True, but it was given in DW's MTMTE #8, and that one is considered canon according to Hasbro.
[/quote]

Then that being the case, you just made Dreamwave the be all and end all of TF G1 and BW continuity. I just don't buy that. The MTMTE is considered cannon, for Dreamwave continuity. Doesn't mean a thing to IDW, or for that matter Beast Wars.
And before it's point out, yes I am well aware of the scene where Ratchet notices the Maximal symbol on the emergency exit doors from the volcano as they were running from Bruticus.

Loki120 wrote:

- BM Megatron's merging with various sparks was also done by Liege Maximo in alignment. The Warworlds were present at the time and it was probably recorded.

Never established or mentioned. Not evidence.

So neither Megs or Liege Maximo did a spark merging with thousands/millions of sparks? Gee, I must be going senile.

Fine, I'll reiterate. Niether the Liege Maximo, nor the events from Alignment were ever mentioned in Beast Machines, nor were any of those events established. Doesn't change the fact that it's not evidence and only stipulation on your part.
Theories are great, they make the world go around. But they're not evidence.

Loki120 wrote:

- The timestorm from the end of Timewars appears when BW Megatron shoots G1 Prime's head. It similarly sucks stuff in and erases them from existance.

Don't remember anything being erased from existence. Similar events, nothing more.

It would have sucked in the Maximals like it did with Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge. Read up on Timewars and then rewatch the episode again.

Have read it. Similar events. Nothing more.
Same thing happened in Age of Apocalypse.
It's pretty common in Sci-fi.

Aynwho, after rereading it all, I came to the conclusion that neither cartoon nor comic is 100% compatible with Beastwars.

The closest thing we have is probably DW's G1 (since IDW did a reboot without connecting to BW).

I'll agree with you on that one, but it still learns more towards cartoon than comic, imo.

Actually, Loki, the Dreamwave comic is considered the definitive G1 continuity. This is specifically stated in the DK book The Ultimate Guide to Transformers. It is the one that most closely follows the toy line continuity. It also addresses all of the various "errors" in continuity established by the cartoons and Marvel comics. It created a single unified continuity. It is also tied directly with Beast Wars. Yes, the line was cut short prematurely, but it is the definitive G1 continuity. Teh IDW continuity is its own universe completely separate from all previous continuties and following its own rules. For true G1, the DW copntinuity is the established benchmark.

Is it just me, or are we getting close to a blood feud hear?
Cool it.

Tramp wrote:Actually, Loki, the Dreamwave comic is considered the definitive G1 continuity. This is specifically stated in the DK book The Ultimate Guide to Transformers. It is the one that most closely follows the toy line continuity. It also addresses all of the various "errors" in continuity established by the cartoons and Marvel comics. It created a single unified continuity. It is also tied directly with Beast Wars. Yes, the line was cut short prematurely, but it is the definitive G1 continuity. Teh IDW continuity is its own universe completely separate from all previous continuties and following its own rules. For true G1, the DW copntinuity is the established benchmark.

It may have been official in the eyes of Hasbro at the time, however that has gone out with the bathwater. Now that IDW has the license, it's continuity is the new official one, they just don't have a book that makes the proclamation...yet. Transformers is a muddy mess when it comes to continuity, and yesterdays official cannon becomes obsolete with every new one that comes out the pipe.

Whiner-tron wrote:Is it just me, or are we getting close to a blood feud hear?
Cool it.

Actually, it's called a factual debate.

Loki120 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Actually, Loki, the Dreamwave comic is considered the definitive G1 continuity. This is specifically stated in the DK book The Ultimate Guide to Transformers. It is the one that most closely follows the toy line continuity. It also addresses all of the various "errors" in continuity established by the cartoons and Marvel comics. It created a single unified continuity. It is also tied directly with Beast Wars. Yes, the line was cut short prematurely, but it is the definitive G1 continuity. Teh IDW continuity is its own universe completely separate from all previous continuties and following its own rules. For true G1, the DW copntinuity is the established benchmark.

It may have been official in the eyes of Hasbro at the time, however that has gone out with the bathwater. Now that IDW has the license, it's continuity is the new official one, they just don't have a book that makes the proclamation...yet. Transformers is a muddy mess when it comes to continuity, and yesterdays official cannon becomes obsolete with every new one that comes out the pipe.

IDW is doing its own continuity completely separate from the original G1. It is a complete restart set in modern times and has no connection to the original toys or continuities. For pure G1, the Dreamwave continuity is still the standard. And, for the record, I expect IDW to also pick up where Dreamwave left off once the bankrupcy litigation is complete. According to their response to the email I had written them, that litigation is the only thing keeping them from doing so.

Tramp wrote:And, for the record, I expect IDW to also pick up where Dreamwave left off once the bankrupcy litigation is complete. According to their response to the email I had written them, that litigation is the only thing keeping them from doing so.

You know that would be cool, and I would so pick up that series. But I don't think it's going to happen. They've stated themselves that they want to move forward in a totally new direction, and going back to Dreamwave will only hinder that. But, I could be completely wrong, and I really hope I am.

Loki120 wrote:

Tramp wrote:And, for the record, I expect IDW to also pick up where Dreamwave left off once the bankrupcy litigation is complete. According to their response to the email I had written them, that litigation is the only thing keeping them from doing so.

You know that would be cool, and I would so pick up that series. But I don't think it's going to happen. They've stated themselves that they want to move forward in a totally new direction, and going back to Dreamwave will only hinder that. But, I could be completely wrong, and I really hope I am.

It wouldn't hinder it at all. They would be two totally separate titles just like Beast Wars is its own title. The only thing stopping IDW from doing it is the bankrupcy litigation. They were only recently allowed to begin reprinting War Within. Therefore, i have no doubt that once the Litigation is complete, they'll pick up where DW left off to at least finish those story arcs.

Tramp wrote:

Loki120 wrote:

Tramp wrote:And, for the record, I expect IDW to also pick up where Dreamwave left off once the bankrupcy litigation is complete. According to their response to the email I had written them, that litigation is the only thing keeping them from doing so.

You know that would be cool, and I would so pick up that series. But I don't think it's going to happen. They've stated themselves that they want to move forward in a totally new direction, and going back to Dreamwave will only hinder that. But, I could be completely wrong, and I really hope I am.

It wouldn't hinder it at all. They would be two totally separate titles just like Beast Wars is its own title. The only thing stopping IDW from doing it is the bankrupcy litigation. They were only recently allowed to begin reprinting War Within. Therefore, i have no doubt that once the Litigation is complete, they'll pick up where DW left off to at least finish those story arcs.

As I said, I would be totally happy to be wrong, in fact, i hope that I am. I count myself among the small few who actually liked Dreamwave's stuff, and would totally love to see the G1 title continue. I have doubts, but we'll see.