The Energon Pub

[Cyberpath]

I think MP Wheeljack is definitely cartoon-accurate. Wheeljack transforms into a very specific car, down to the "539" number on his doors; his "Lancia" paint pattern was simply simplified for animation and ultimately restored for the Masterpiece line as part of the "real car" gimmick. (I guess he has toy-accurate black instead of grey.) Love that I have a cartoon-accurate robot to hold up to the screen and an accurate car-model to compare to photos of the real thing, both in one toy. Even love the sponsors tampos.

I don't think the MP line has taken such a huge turn, the MPs were cartoon-accurate from the start (it's the reason why I got into it in the first place and why my shelf is so crowded) mostly the difference is that they have stopped incorporating made-up surface greeble, relaying instead on show-accurate details, transformation seams, and bits from the alt-modes that aren't necessarily from the cartoon.

Cobs, I was exactly the opposite, while was I ecstatic to get a hold of any Transformer I could get -- show-accurate or not, complex or simple, KO or real.. or even a pencil-sharpener shaped like a generic robot.. they never really lived up to the show till now.

[Diem]

Just to be clear, I am 100% behind toy accuracy. I made sure when I bought Bumble that the toy-accurate face came with, and it's what he's been wearing ever since I got him. The only version of Streak I own is MP-18S with the totally silver car mode. I love that these incarnations of these figures are available.

But, but, I entirely understand Takara's process here and I agree with the decisions they've made recently. I'd have done the same if I were in their shoes. Unless you include multiple heads then every decision you make is going to make an enemy of some part of the fandom. Choose the wider-than-it-is-tall G1 toy head with the distinctive L-shaped horns and you'll annoy the cartoon purists, the Marvel fans, and that one guy who liked Infiltration. Pick the CW-style head with the narrow, J-shaped horns and you've annoyed all of the above, plus classic toy fans.

If you're going to be stuck in a storm whichever way you sail, you may as well aim for the biggest island you can see, which in this case is The-Character-Model-That-Was-Used-For-The-Cartoon-And-The-Comic-And-The-Movie Island, surrounded by the equally noble but far smaller IslandDW and Toy-Accurate Archipelago.

I get that we all want to get the optimal (some might even say "masterpiece") version of these characters, and there's nothing wrong with that desire. But that often means some kind of hybrid of designs from all different versions, and that's usually something that lives and dies on individual preferences. And when you're sailing in a storm and wanting to avoid sinking, the Badcube shark nipping at your oars eliminates any willingness to take risks that you might have had in your younger days.

tl;dr Diem is a filthy corporate stooge apologist

[shajaki]

I am not in love with that backpack, the chest insignia seems too big, and the butt flap... why?!
He has so much else that is great about him though. And I'm actually taking to that head sculpt.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

If there was a alternate toy-accurate head planned, they're probably saving that for Spin-Out, to make it more enticing for being more than a mere Sunstreaker redeco.

[shajaki]

If there was a alternate toy-accurate head planned, they're probably saving that for Spin-Out, to make it more enticing for being more than a mere Sunstreaker redeco.

Good point, and building on that, it would be especially enticing because if they went for accuracy then the ears would be yellow still. And those who aren't happy with the SS toon head could use it for him instead

[sol magnus]

I got Sunsurge. I will be getting Sunstreaker.

[sol magnus]

Just to be clear, I am 100% behind toy accuracy. I made sure when I bought Bumble that the toy-accurate face came with, and it's what he's been wearing ever since I got him. The only version of Streak I own is MP-18S with the totally silver car mode. I love that these incarnations of these figures are available.

But, but, I entirely understand Takara's process here and I agree with the decisions they've made recently. I'd have done the same if I were in their shoes. Unless you include multiple heads then every decision you make is going to make an enemy of some part of the fandom. Choose the wider-than-it-is-tall G1 toy head with the distinctive L-shaped horns and you'll annoy the cartoon purists, the Marvel fans, and that one guy who liked Infiltration. Pick the CW-style head with the narrow, J-shaped horns and you've annoyed all of the above, plus classic toy fans.

If you're going to be stuck in a storm whichever way you sail, you may as well aim for the biggest island you can see, which in this case is The-Character-Model-That-Was-Used-For-The-Cartoon-And-The-Comic-And-The-Movie Island, surrounded by the equally noble but far smaller IslandDW and Toy-Accurate Archipelago.

I get that we all want to get the optimal (some might even say "masterpiece") version of these characters, and there's nothing wrong with that desire. But that often means some kind of hybrid of designs from all different versions, and that's usually something that lives and dies on individual preferences. And when you're sailing in a storm and wanting to avoid sinking, the Badcube shark nipping at your oars eliminates any willingness to take risks that you might have had in your younger days.

tl;dr Diem is a filthy corporate stooge apologist

If you are then so am I. I too, purchased some of my Masterpiece figures to appeal to toy accuracy (18S Silverstreak, Hasbro Soundwave). I also have always purchased the "real" version of a 3p if I had it or not. I do have a thing about rewarding the company that has given me (and now my children) so much happiness over the years. Thusly, HasTak has never "lost money" from my consumer habits in favor of a 3p company. I think 3p companies have their place in filling gaps I "just can't wait for or don't think will get made", but in the end I will always get the official figure.

On topic - From what I've seen of Sunstreaker so far, he might only be as good as Sunsurge. Sunsurge is a really good "Sunstreaker" - plus, he has hand missles that the Takara version has not yet revealed. On the other hand, Sunstreaker has some really cool innovations Sunsurge likely can't touch.

Bring on Jazz, Trailbreaker/Hoist, and Hound!

[Seibertron]

I guess what i dont understand is why they just didnt provide both heads. Do both, make most people happy (i could easily see the argument for missile hands and chrome spoiler, but those arent as important to me, nor not as necessarily easy for them).

Making the toy head for the red version isnt what i want either because it wont be for sunstreaker, unless they do it delta magnus style by coming with sunstreakers head in that set because the red version wont need the alien head or other faces.

Hm ... maybe I answered my own question and gave my self some hope!

To anyone questioning where my argument was for Megatron's toy head, his definitive head was definitely the cartoon head. While I'd love to see Megatron's original toy head get some more love, it was a more radical departure than what we're talking about with Sunstreaker between the toy and the cartoon heads. The former is what most toys of Megatron tried replicating (some with greater success than others) starting with Action Master Megatron, whereas Sunstreaker has a 33 year history of his toys having the "streaks" on his ears.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

C'mon Takara! Not a fan of the overly cartoon head or bodies. Please stop!!!

Fully agree. I saw this reveal not long after leaving yesterday morning for a trip, and I almost threw up.

No joke, this MP looks awful in bot mode. The car mode is dead sexy, but the robot mode... BLEEECCCCKKKKKKKKK. That head is the worst MP head I have seen, ever. It is not good. Just stop. Please.

[william-james88]

C'mon Takara! Not a fan of the overly cartoon head or bodies. Please stop!!!

Fully agree. I saw this reveal not long after leaving yesterday morning for a trip, and I almost threw up.

No joke, this MP looks awful in bot mode. The car mode is dead sexy, but the robot mode... BLEEECCCCKKKKKKKKK. That head is the worst MP head I have seen, ever. It is not good. Just stop. Please.

I have a problem with how busy the whole bot mode is instead of being sleek. Reminds me more of Tracks and less of Lambor and Wheeljack.

[Sabrblade]

Any idea yet on the yellow spoiler?

Most likely more of Lambo's insistence that the altmode resemble the real world car as much as possible, as the chrome spoiler of the G1 toy was yet another aspect of the custom work done to the car's model like the exposed engine block was.

[Seibertron]

But, but, I entirely understand Takara's process here and I agree with the decisions they've made recently. I'd have done the same if I were in their shoes. Unless you include multiple heads then every decision you make is going to make an enemy of some part of the fandom. Choose the wider-than-it-is-tall G1 toy head with the distinctive L-shaped horns and you'll annoy the cartoon purists, the Marvel fans, and that one guy who liked Infiltration. Pick the CW-style head with the narrow, J-shaped horns and you've annoyed all of the above, plus classic toy fans.

Or just add the detailing I'm asking for by adding in the much accepted vent lines that is a staple of Sunstreaker's appearance. Or give us both heads, problem solved. Either way, I'd be happy.

I'd be happy with the cartoon look, but with some of the toy details. I'm all for the cartoon look as long as it has more of the real world detailing we have come to expect from the toys. I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details. I do not like flat undetailed panels on Transformers. I like to see some details to make it look more real and less cartoonish.

[Diem]

Making the toy head for the red version isnt what i want either because it wont be for sunstreaker, unless they do it delta magnus style by coming with sunstreakers head in that set because the red version wont need the alien head or other faces.

In toy terms Sunstreaker and Red Lamborghini Countach LP500S "Super Tuning" have identical heads, including yellow colour on the vents (and yellow rather than blue eyes, which is another wrinkle in the cartoon/toy/hybrid style discussion) which means that assuming the head is safely removable at all, a toy-accurate Spin-Out head would likely combine with Sunstreaker's faces to make a toy accurate Sunstreaker head. If they do Police Version that's when we need to be concerned about red vents.

Or just add the detailing I'm asking for by adding in the much accepted vent lines that is a staple of Sunstreaker's appearance.

Then you have a head that's not accurate to ANY existing design. That seems like a copout, and a combo-breaker from all the other MP figures that stick by the cartoon head designs.

[Seibertron]

Here's my photoshop of what would have been a step in the right direction, though I would have preferred the "black lines" outlining the yellow of the "ears" to be slightly thinner so that it doesn't look so blocky and cartoonish. I would have also incorporated the black forehead "visor" above the eyes from the G1 toy to break up the cartoonish rounded black head.

[Sabrblade]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

[Ultra Markus]

thats quite a beautiful piece
i thought they were going to do hound

[Prime Target]

Fingers crossed for Cliffjumper, Hound, Jazz, Trailbreaker, Gears, Brawn, Windcharger and Mirage and maybe we'll finally get another Hubcap toy from a retooled Cliffjumper.

[Hellscream9999]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

There's a seriously fascinating psychological dichotomy of, on the one hand: not wanting cartoon accuracy in the g1 mp line, whilst on the other: almost demanding it from the bw mp line - and yes, I fall right into this possible hypocrisy too.

I'm not sure where this comes from, except that the g1 toys were far more visually interesting than the cartoon, whereas the bw toys were both satisfactory on their own, but also a step down from the sometimes vastly differing show models.

Just something that I've been pondering for a while.

[Seibertron]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

I'm not 7 years old though, and these toys aren't being designed for a 7 year old. When I was a kid, I thought most of the toys looked like their screen counterparts and I never noticed that He-Man toys reused limbs and accessories from each other, so I'm heavily discounting the ability of 7 year old Ryan to discern what a good looking toy was because I was too involved with just playing with my toys at that age 33 years ago (and considering that my avatar is the earliest drawing I have of Bumblebee from 1984 or 1985, I'm assuming screen accuracy wasn't too high on my list).

This argument between those of you happy with Takara's new direction of the Masterpiece line and those of us who want a real-world/detailed cartoon look is frustrating at best. I can't imagine that you guys would be upset with more details from the toys. Were you guys upset that Wheeljack, Prowl, Sideswipe, Optimus Prime, and Bluestreak were a fantastic hybrid between their toys and their cartoon models? I wish I knew how to better explain what it is that I like and that I expect to see more details in a "Masterpiece" figure. Flat, undetailed panels are not what I want.

[Hellscream9999]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

I'm not 7 years old though, and these toys aren't being designed for a 7 year old. When I was a kid, I thought most of the toys looked like their screen counterparts and I never noticed that He-Man toys reused limbs and accessories from each other, so I'm heavily discounting the ability of 7 year old Ryan to discern what a good looking toy was because I was too involved with just playing with my toys at that age 33 years ago (and considering that my avatar is the earliest drawing I have of Bumblebee from 1984 or 1985, I'm assuming screen accuracy wasn't too high on my list).

This argument between those of you happy with Takara's new direction of the Masterpiece line and those of us who want a real-world/detailed cartoon look is frustrating at best. I can't imagine that you guys would be upset with more details from the toys. Were you guys upset that Wheeljack, Prowl, Sideswipe, Optimus Prime, and Bluestreak were a fantastic hybrid between their toys and their cartoon models? I wish I knew how to better explain what it is that I like and that I expect to see more details in a "Masterpiece" figure. Flat, undetailed panels are not what I want.

I made a diagram; while we don't need lots of stuff like on mp 10, we just don't want tons of empty space all over the figure

[Diem]

There's a seriously fascinating psychological dichotomy of, on the one hand: not wanting cartoon accuracy in the g1 mp line, whilst on the other: almost demanding it from the bw mp line - and yes, I fall right into this possible hypocrisy too.

I'm not sure where this comes from, except that the g1 toys were far more visually interesting than the cartoon, whereas the bw toys were both satisfactory on their own, but also a step down from the sometimes vastly differing show models.

Just something that I've been pondering for a while.

That point is interesting to me. The BW show looked great for the time, but looking back there are a lot of leathery fur and undetailed gradient metal textures on those old models. If anything I think of those models being made lackluster by time while cartoons are comparatively timeless.

But for some reason this makes me think of Super Imaginative Chogokin, a subline of Bandai figures designed around taking existing character designs (mostly Kamen Rider) and literally making them as detailed as they could possibly be. Organic parts get scales and veins and bones. Armour parts get filigree and intricate designs. Tech parts get microscopic pipes and valves and fuses. Musculature looks like Carnage on a bad day.

And I'd be interested to see what they would do with the Beast Wars designs in another world where Bandai and Takara ever started playing nice.

[Seibertron]

There's a seriously fascinating psychological dichotomy of, on the one hand: not wanting cartoon accuracy in the g1 mp line, whilst on the other: almost demanding it from the bw mp line - and yes, I fall right into this possible hypocrisy too.

I'm not sure where this comes from, except that the g1 toys were far more visually interesting than the cartoon, whereas the bw toys were both satisfactory on their own, but also a step down from the sometimes vastly differing show models.

Just something that I've been pondering for a while.

Simple answer, at least for me, especially knowing the history of Transformers. Every Transformers series starting with Beast Wars has had the toy line made in conjunction with the cartoon, whereas the G1 cartoon was made after the toys. We have seen some absolutely amazing toys come out in the past 20 years that look remarkably like they do in the cartoon. Cartoon models have also significantly improved during the past 33 years since G1.

I expect modern Transformers toys to capture the on-screen look as close as possible. In fact, I think it would be fascinating to see a G1 cartoon toy line that tries to capture the simplicity of the character models as much as possible. Just not in the Masterpiece line which should absolutely embrace the hybrid style, as it mostly has for the past 13+ years. I don't want to see the Masterpiece line devolve into replicating the simple look of the G1 cartoon models. Give me the details, that's all I'm asking for, and I don't think those of you on the other side of this argument would mind more details in these amazing toys.

It will be interesting to see this yellow Lambo alongside Tigertrack.

[Hellscream9999]

There's a seriously fascinating psychological dichotomy of, on the one hand: not wanting cartoon accuracy in the g1 mp line, whilst on the other: almost demanding it from the bw mp line - and yes, I fall right into this possible hypocrisy too.

I'm not sure where this comes from, except that the g1 toys were far more visually interesting than the cartoon, whereas the bw toys were both satisfactory on their own, but also a step down from the sometimes vastly differing show models.

Just something that I've been pondering for a while.

That point is interesting to me. The BW show looked great for the time, but looking back there are a lot of leathery fur and undetailed gradient metal textures on those old models. If anything I think of those models being made lackluster by time while cartoons are comparatively timeless.

But for some reason this makes me think of Super Imaginative Chogokin, a subline of Bandai figures designed around taking existing character designs (mostly Kamen Rider) and literally making them as detailed as they could possibly be. Organic parts get scales and veins and bones. Armour parts get filigree and intricate designs. Tech parts get microscopic pipes and valves and fuses. Musculature looks like Carnage on a bad day.

And I'd be interested to see what they would do with the Beast Wars designs in another world where Bandai and Takara ever started playing nice.

To be fair, it hasn't aged well, but it still holds up pretty well, and was pretty groundbreaking for it's time back in '95'ish

[Sabrblade]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

I'm not 7 years old though,

I know. But since I know how you feel about it now as an adult, I'm asking about how you would have felt about it as a kid.

Like, did your younger self like how the Action Masters looked more like the cartoon, or did that matter at all back then?

[Seibertron]

I do not want toys that look like they walked off the cartoon screen with simplified details.

Out of curiosity, how would you have felt about toys that looked like they walked off the cartoon screen back when you were a child, before having developed the more adult-minded aesthetic tastes that you have now?

I'm not 7 years old though,

I know. But since I know how you feel about it now as an adult, I'm asking about how you would have felt about it as a kid.

Like, did your younger self like how the Action Masters looked more like the cartoon, or did that matter at all back then?

I explained it above in the sentences that followed after what you clipped. Here it is again, and yes I really liked Action Masters as a kid ... but not for the reason you're thinking, but because it was bringing back the characters I loved more than anything and I was highly entertained by how that was impacting the Marvel Comics with those very characters making a comeback.

I'm not 7 years old though, and these toys aren't being designed for a 7 year old. When I was a kid, I thought most of the toys looked like their screen counterparts and I never noticed that He-Man toys reused limbs and accessories from each other, so I'm heavily discounting the ability of 7 year old Ryan to discern what a good looking toy was because I was too involved with just playing with my toys at that age 33 years ago (and considering that my avatar is the earliest drawing I have of Bumblebee from 1984 or 1985, I'm assuming screen accuracy wasn't too high on my list).