The Energon Pub

[shajaki]

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Those are some awesome pics! Love that look!

[Cobotron]

Wish the accessory storage tray/sled had flip out treads.

That woulda been awesome.

[Seibertron]

He looks pretty good and I anticipate enjoying him, but still... the hips annoy me. At this point, without having him in hand yet, that's the one thing that puts me off about him.

I really like Ironhide, but the hip kibble is an eye sore for the designer getting lazy at the end of the design process, or possibly what the problem is with just having ONE designer on a specific toy instead of a team that can help you overcome an obstacle. What frustrates me the most about this glaring flaw is that if they had connected the part that becomes the butt wheels and the hip panels to his back so that his waist motion wasn't interfered with, the hip panels could have become the sides of his torso to fill in the massive torso gaps that make him look extremely lacking and then the tires could have filled in the empty space on his lower back, covered up on the sides by what became the hip panels.

Sideswipe has a few issues in both modes but overall he looks great and accomplishes the animation robot mode as well as a realistic Lamborghini can. Wheeljack and Prowl, however, were near perfect to me, so to go from those to Ironhide, I just don't get why we ended up with a product that wasn't as darn near close to perfection as Prowl and Wheeljack were.

The real problem with the official Masterpiece Ironhide is that they try to follow the animation's transformation too much. I have no desire to have my G1 character Transformers toys transform like they did in the cartoon 30 years ago. The transformations were half assed and cheated a lot (and were inconsistent in cases like Hot Rod) so I don't need the toy version of that character to faithfully reproduce the transformation. They're taking the animation accurate aspect of these characters way too literally and some of these toys have suffered from that.

Bottom line is this: Ironhide is a boxy character that transforms into a rectangular shaped van. It shouldn't be this difficult to get a rectangle shaped object to transform into a humanoid shaped character that accurately matches his character model.

There are a lot of great things about Ironhide but someone really needed to come along and do a once over for improvements to rectify this glaring flaw.

[Seibertron]

Oh and this ...

Transformers Masterpiece Ironhide

[Seibertron]

Here's an extremely rough photoshop showing what I'm talking about ...

[Cyberpath]

I'm still open to anyone who wants to throw in some source reference, or 2 cents on my original question. I'm not necessarily trying to dispel the belief, I just want some pudding to stick my mind spoon in.

From what I recall, and as evident in the toys, for the robot-mode the designers use the cartoon as the main (but not only) reference source and add details where they think it would benefit.

Hasui said that he re-watches the show when approaching a new MP figure.

He also said that characters that look or transform similar to their G1 toys are easier to do.

From what I understand they start out with a sketch of the "ideal" robot mode and work it into something transformable.

Observe the process of Kobayashi for MP-22 --

[megatronus]

Here's an extremely rough photoshop showing what I'm talking about ...

Why photoshop when someone has already done a fix? It requires slicing and dicing, but the point is we know there was some alternate way to design the hips of the figure. It's a shame.

[Ravage XK]

Why photoshop when someone has already done a fix? It requires slicing and dicing, but the point is we know there was some alternate way to design the hips of the figure. It's a shame.

Do we though? ok, they could have designed them in a different way from the ground up but that would have had knock on effects to the rest of the figure.

The images you show dont show an alternate design, they show the figure with bits cut off and a couple of new parts and it looks terrible in alt mode with those panels missing.

It may have been possible to find a way to rotate those hip panels round to the back.

[MrBlack]

I'm warming up to the hips on the figure. The modifications done above fill out his waist, but then his hips look disproportionately small.

I do wish that his wheels had been moved up a bit to fill out his back, but on the whole I'm very pleased with the figure. The transformation is fun, I love the accessories, and Ironhide just looks cool, hip flaps and all.

[megatronus]

Why photoshop when someone has already done a fix? It requires slicing and dicing, but the point is we know there was some alternate way to design the hips of the figure. It's a shame.

Do we though? ok, they could have designed them in a different way from the ground up but that would have had knock on effects to the rest of the figure.

The images you show dont show an alternate design, they show the figure with bits cut off and a couple of new parts and it looks terrible in alt mode with those panels missing.

It may have been possible to find a way to rotate those hip panels round to the back.

I'm not saying 'this is the fix' just that they could have taken another route. By all accounts from those who have him in hand, there is room to engineer the waist differently.

[Sabrblade]

Sideswipe has a few issues in both modes but overall he looks great and accomplishes the animation robot mode as well as a realistic Lamborghini can. Wheeljack and Prowl, however, were near perfect to me, so to go from those to Ironhide, I just don't get why we ended up with a product that wasn't as darn near close to perfection as Prowl and Wheeljack were.

This is what happens when we go from Shogo Hasui to someone else (in this case Hisao Nishimoto, who didn't design any other MP) as the head designer.

The real problem with the official Masterpiece Ironhide is that they try to follow the animation's transformation too much. I have no desire to have my G1 character Transformers toys transform like they did in the cartoon 30 years ago. The transformations were half assed and cheated a lot (and were inconsistent in cases like Hot Rod) so I don't need the toy version of that character to faithfully reproduce the transformation. They're taking the animation accurate aspect of these characters way too literally and some of these toys have suffered from that.

For me, some of this is the opposite, as I feel a lot of the toy's shortcomings are due to it not resembling the cartoon model enough. Since Ironhide didn't have hip kibble or butt wheels in the show, those problems get attributed to the figure being "show-inaccurate" in my mind.

But the main things that really get me come from the toy having to rely on the real world proportions of its altmode being more trapezoidal than the more solid rectangle box shape that Ironhide turned into in the show. The "real world trapezoid vs. cartoon rectangle" shape to me is what results in Ironhide having such a wide belly gut and a narrow upper torso instead of the more broad-chested upper torso and less wide belly gut that he had in the show. Thus, Ironhide's cartoon physique looked more fit and healthy than his more fat and pot-bellied MP.

If the toy had found some way to cheat and swap out the altmode's trapezoidal windshield with a fake rectangular windshield for the robot mode chest (much like how both MP-1 and MP-10 swap out their realistic truck grills in truck mode for fake, cartoon-based grills in robot mode), I honestly might not have minded as much if such could have given us a more fit than fat Ironhide.

[Ironhidensh]

Shipping notice finally received.

[LegendaryAntiHero]

What's a good price point for Ironhide? I usually buy Masterpiece figures from Toy Arena. They're selling it for 90 dollars right now

[D-Maximal_Primal]

What's a good price point for Ironhide? I usually buy Masterpiece figures from Toy Arena. They're selling it for 90 dollars right now

Well BBTS has him up for $90 without the collectors coin and $100 with the coin, so it may not be too bad.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Personally, just like I said before, I think the Masterpiece line is not to give us the most G1 accurate versions of characters, but rather the ultimate versions of characters. I am fine about Ironhide having pieces on his hips because I don't see him as the G1 characters, but rather as, put simply, "Ironhide".

I not only like your answer Sill, I completely agree with it and even said something very similar somewhere else.
I really think it boils down to each individual designer. The first three cars, in my eyes, where very true to the toys with hints of cartoon inside. Those three cars were designed by Hasui, and then he also did Magnus. Who was lavishly cartoony in appearance.

I think it just depends a lot of how much the designer likes how the character looked in the cartoon or not. Tracks and Ultra Magnus were designed so similarly to the cartoon because it was so close to how the character SHOULD look in the designer's eyes. If the designer thinks how they looked in g1 WASN'T the ultimate version of the character, it only makes sense for them to make changes. Personally, the only part I don't like on Ironhide is the butt wheels, but even then those look fine on the Ratchet version. It's just the coloration that makes it look a certain way. All in all, the designer is the artist, and we should respect that. As long as the toy is good as a TOY, then it is a good figure. Personally I am on the designer’s side when it comes to the beer gut, because it fits both Ironhide’s and Ratchet’s personalities.

I disagree with the 'ultimate version of the character' bit, unless you are implicitly admitting that G1 versions of Transformers characters - or representations that are darn close - are the ultimate versions of those characters.

Based on the interviews Cobo brought out, MP is clearly meant to homage G1, but in a more modernly accessible and beautifully designed way. It's what a G1 toy should be in the mind's eye. Which is fine... but Ironhide definitely does not have hip kibble in my mind's eye.

He looks pretty good and I anticipate enjoying him, but still... the hips annoy me. At this point, without having him in hand yet, that's the one thing that puts me off about him.

It's not really kibble until you don't call them "hip skirts". Just because the original character didn't have it doesn't mean it's kibble. Also, I have come across times when I was missing something in a design I was making that would've improved the look, but didn't think about it because of shortness of time. I think, personally, the designer didn't know what else to do with the hip pieces, and if he had more time he would've probably fixed it. Again, if the figure holds together well, and is good as a FIGURE, and not JUST as that character, it IS a good figure, even if one part doesn't fit the character.

[megatronus]

It's not really kibble until you don't call them "hip skirts". Just because the original character didn't have it doesn't mean it's kibble.

Right. The hip skirts being kibble makes them kibble.

Also, I have come across times when I was missing something in a design I was making that would've improved the look, but didn't think about it because of shortness of time. I think, personally, the designer didn't know what else to do with the hip pieces, and if he had more time he would've probably fixed it.

That's what we call a flaw...

Again, if the figure holds together well, and is good as a FIGURE, and not JUST as that character, it IS a good figure, even if one part doesn't fit the character.

I never said Ironhide wasn't a good figure. But he is a flawed one.

[fenrir72]

Guys. He's been released and no huffin' and puffin' will change it. Same with Tracks and especially Roadrage. No neck lock and the shouldergap/clearance.

UM, no hip swivel andposeable fingers to securely hold the Matrix etc etc. Thems the breaks

Hotrodimus/Rodimus Convoy.....well you get the drift.

[Fox Thiagarajan]

Yeeeeeah buddy. Got him in today. Haven't transformed him yet, but so far I am loving the vehicle mode. Good to have the old soldier among his fellow comrades.

[fenrir72]

Yeeeeeah buddy. Got him in today. Haven't transformed him yet, but so far I am loving the vehicle mode. Good to have the old soldier among his fellow comrades.

Remember in the pilot after he got shot down by Skywarp? The old geezer kept yapping about his "back in the time........." war stories? makes me want to recreate it with this.

Also, the face images in both chuck and Ryan's is sooooooooooo different from the intial sample images release.

This proves the point I was making about not judging an item by it's "cover".

Mine btw is still in transit since Feb 3 and thanks to the Chinese New Year..........more delays.

[LegendaryAntiHero]

What's a good price point for Ironhide? I usually buy Masterpiece figures from Toy Arena. They're selling it for 90 dollars right now

Well BBTS has him up for $90 without the collectors coin and $100 with the coin, so it may not be too bad.

OK, guess I might buy Ironhide tomorrow then

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Found this on the Planet Iacon Facebook page:

[Sabrblade]

Found this on the Planet Iacon Facebook page:

Looks like someone did some work on the sides of that Wheeljack's head.

[shajaki]

Looks like someone did some work on the sides of that Wheeljack's head.

Care of Dr.Wu

[Ironhidensh]

Found this on the Planet Iacon Facebook page:

Looks like someone did some work on the sides of that Wheeljack's head.

It's a 3rd party add-on, and accessory pack.