Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[D-Maximal_Primal]

thank you for the translation

Off-topic: I really like that profile pic one of my all time favorites right there!

On topic: I've been pleasantly surprised by Godbomber. He is actually really fun! And I am amazing at the alt mode size differences between him and Magnus Prime in comparison to robot modes. He's a bit problematic, but overall pretty good, and I like him with Magnus Prime. Both are enjoyable separate and together

[Deadput]

Godbomber is fun I agree.

I don't have Magnus Prime right now since I'm poor and I need to regain control of my bank account before I can pay BBTS shipping so I don't know what sort of problems they might have.


Shame he wasn't released over here but most of those who wanted him badly got him so there's that.

[fenrir72]

How pre tell is Minerva 2 gonna go swimming? In an armored suit?

Uh...



Yes.



Looks like it's half mall, half itasha which really doesn't surprise me being Rhinox and all. I feel like I've seen the girl on the far left somewhere before, she's wearing a Japanese style hardhat with the cross on the front if that helps anyone ID her.

Emerje

Oho! SJW proof reader! Read the WHOLE context of my post or have I offended your fragile sensibilities again?

What's so wrong to see a girl in the comic? A bikini clad gal in this case! Is the skin exposure too strong for the sensibilities? That's what I was responding to or DID YOU NOT read the post I responded to?

R E A D First!

[Sabrblade]

It just hit me that, since the transtectors of both Twincast and Megatron were destroyed in the pack-in comic story, unless they get new ones, the two can't become Blaster and Galvatron anymore.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

It just hit me that, since the transtectors of both Twincast and Megatron were destroyed in the pack-in comic story, unless they get new ones, the two can't become Blaster and Galvatron anymore.

Exclusive releases of Voyager Megatron (may have to retool that Headmaster or make a new one) and Twincast in the works?

[Qwan]

How pre tell is Minerva 2 gonna go swimming? In an armored suit?

Uh...



Yes.

Oho! SJW proof reader! Read the WHOLE context of my post or have I offended your fragile sensibilities again?

What's so wrong to see a girl in the comic? A bikini clad gal in this case! Is the skin exposure too strong for the sensibilities? That's what I was responding to or DID YOU NOT read the post I responded to?

R E A D First!

For what it's worth Emerje, I thought it was funny.


I guess it does make sense to get releases of Megatron and Twincast after the events of this comic; what a clever move on Takara's part. It would make sense for them to get at least some form of Japan release - especially in Megatron's case, to at least get some mileage out of the extra tooling not used for Blitzwing... and of course it would open the door for their respective rivals (Soundblaster and a non-black Convoy) without a whole lot of fuss required.

Assuming this is the case and that they're not just gonna have their Transtectors rebuilt (which isn't too far out of the realm of possibility; that's basically what happened in the first place right?), I'm really curious to see what an LG take on the Voyager Megatron mold would look like. I'm one of the ones who adores TR Megs so a second take on the deco would be cool to see!

[Sabrblade]

I guess it does make sense to get releases of Megatron and Twincast after the events of this comic; what a clever move on Takara's part. It would make sense for them to get at least some form of Japan release - especially in Megatron's case, to at least get some mileage out of the extra tooling not used for Blitzwing... and of course it would open the door for their respective rivals (Soundblaster and a non-black Convoy) without a whole lot of fuss required.

Assuming this is the case and that they're not just gonna have their Transtectors rebuilt (which isn't too far out of the realm of possibility; that's basically what happened in the first place right?), I'm really curious to see what an LG take on the Voyager Megatron mold would look like. I'm one of the ones who adores TR Megs so a second take on the deco would be cool to see!

Thing is, in at least Twincast's case, the Japanese continuity demands that he become Blaster again at some point after this, as he is already set to be Blaster later in his life by the start of the G-2 manga. And with the visor that Twincast's Transtector had, I had previous suspected that that might have been how he would become the visored Action Master Blaster seen in the G-2 manga, but now that theory's been completely stomped on by Trypticon.

[primalxconvoy]

To those that defended "Sikomofo" and his depictions women, there are some things to consider in this comic, and in general:

- If the character is going swimming then it would be relevant to depict them in swimwear. However, what TYPE of swimwear is depicted can be debated. Does this character need to be in a "sexy" bikini? How old is she?

- Princess Leia was depicted as a sexy slave due to the writing. It was relevant, as she was made to wear her attire at the request of a skinny, filthy mob boss/kingpin. However, in real life, was the choice justified? Could it have been written in another way?

- In Japan, Sikomofo's depictions of women is NOT "acceptable". I couldn't, for example, open and read a Kiss Players manga, on my break, at work, in Japan, right now. People would not be happy, especially as I'm a school teacher at a kids' school where I have to change nappies, and look after kids. My Japanese girlfriend, with two transformers-loving kids herself, tries to avoid Sikomofo's work and similar stuff.

However, in such a male-dominated society, it IS more widespread and unchallenged. Make no mistake about it though, as it IS seen as just as repugnant or inappropriate as anywhere else in the world.

- The sexualised, racist and other inappropriate imagery, themes, etc in Bay's live action films are just as abhorrent to me/others as Sikomofo's. Arguably, his films are rated and, at the cinema at least, unavailable for unaccompanied minors to access. Sikomofo's work, on the other hand, is available either online OR in the actual toy's packaging, and any kid with the right amount of cash can access it.

Personally, all of the knowledge of TFs and artistic skill he demonstrated are continuously rendered moot to me, based upon his childish and sexist depictions of women or other issues. At this point, I honestly wish Takara would just sack the wretched little man and hire someone else.

[Deadput]

Oh look it's Primalxconvoy...yay

I don't think it's acceptable either but all I'm saying is that it is what it is even if I said it in a weird way.

I consider the Kiss player guy to a lot worse then Sakamoto even if he has some questionable tastes (You call him childish for his drawings yet your going with insulting nicknames, that and some of your comments on Tfw2005 don't really make you someone I would agree with)

This is the TF fandom were all crazy anyways for being as invested as we are in this honestly rather niche and dumb hobby that is meant for children 10 and under.

Princess Leia was depicted as a sexy slave due to the writing. It was relevant, as she was made to wear her attire at the request of a skinny, filthy mob boss/kingpin. However, in real life, was the choice justified? Could it have been written in another way?

It might be justified in story but it's still sexulized and it's not the only time.

The prequels had some stuff as well and so did the Clone Wars tv show, (Not including plenty of books and video games that also had some stuff)

sexaulized work is sexualized work it's not something you can "sugarcoat".

[primalxconvoy]

Why did you start your post with that comment? It wasn't appropriate. Neither were your comments regarding the other site. Please consider each website "Vegas". In fact, I think some of the websites even forbid the commenting of other websites, as basic due diligence.

As for "name calling", there isn't a problem. It's a satirical attack upon an artist's work, highlighting the negative aspects of it. I hope it sticks with him until he ceases with such sexist work.

However, you made some salient points; Sakamoto was NOT responsible for Kiss Players, as that was his senior artist (at the time), Yuki Oshima. Below are both of their profiles:

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hayato_Sakamoto

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Yuki_Ohshima

That said, is there any evidence of Sakamoto working on Kiss Players? What's the worst stuff he's created if not? Tfwiki hasn't got any info on him being engaged in any controversy.

Also, I agree with your views on Leia somewhat. I haven't semiotically analysed"Slave Leia", but I am sure that there is definitiely room for debate (it was a "U" rated film, I belive?). Such adult themed depictions in childrens' media frustrate me, too (or at least allow for debate on the matter). One could argue whether such content was via "easter eggs" or was balatantly on show and could be understood, to some extent, by the children watching it (arguably then reinforcing possibly negative views, imagery, etc).

[Cobotron]

Oh look it's Primalxconvoy...yay

Unnecessary.
Ease up.

[SW's SilverHammer]

Oh hey speaking of; I was messing with my legends blackarachnia, the elbow ball sockets are cracked and crumbling. And I haven't messed with the figure since i bought it, and it wasn't cracking then.

[primalxconvoy]

Bugger! I had better go and check mine tonight...

[Deadput]

Why did you start your post with that comment? It wasn't appropriate. Neither were your comments regarding the other site. Please consider each website "Vegas". In fact, I think some of the websites even forbid the commenting of other websites, as basic due diligence.

Oh look it's Primalxconvoy...yay

Unnecessary.
Ease up.

I apologize that was very rude of me and undeserved.

Just a bad day and I'm recovering from an injury that is very irritating so seeing a post and a name from a user who has made a few posts that have irritate me in the past almost pushed me over the edge, I'm a very easily triggered person in general and I'm feeling worse then usual so I'm sorry ffor any immature and wrong behavior.

However, you made some salient points; Sakamoto was NOT responsible for Kiss Players, as that was his senior artist (at the time), Yuki Oshima. Below are both of their profiles:

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hayato_Sakamoto

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Yuki_Ohshima

That said, is there any evidence of Sakamoto working on Kiss Players? What's the worst stuff he's created if not? Tfwiki hasn't got any info on him being engaged in any controversy.

The worse I have heard from Sakamoto is that he draws curvy women/girls who sometimes have little amount of clothes and while it bothers me a little I just go with "Another day, another drawing or picture of a girl whatever" and then move on with my day because it's everywhere and there's nothing that can be done about it all I can do is just move along and ignore it.

At least Sakamoto is a decent drawer otherwise and has good TF lore knowledge nobody is perfect so I'm just going to outweigh the pros to the cons (Keeps me sane with that way of thinking) and I'm sure that Takara will just find someone else to replace him who might draw the same things.

I'll have a worse view of him if he does or draws anything worse but for right now it's just some harmless drawings.

Also, I agree with your views on Leia somewhat. I haven't semiotically analysed"Slave Leia", but I am sure that there is definitiely room for debate (it was a "U" rated film, I belive?). Such adult themed depictions in childrens' media frustrate me, too (or at least allow for debate on the matter). One could argue whether such content was via "easter eggs" or was balatantly on show and could be understood, to some extent, by the children watching it (arguably then reinforcing possibly negative views, imagery, etc).

All I want to say is that I tried to show the clone wars show to my family and my step dad (Who is a big fan of the movies) couldn't continue watching it after 6 episodes because of the way Ahsoka is dressed which is a shame because it's a great show but I understand his reasoning and I agree that her dress attire was not exactly appropriate, both outfits but for different reasons.

[Kurona]

Did I really just see someone call someone else an SJW and go on about being 'offended' and 'fragile sensibilities' when said person was simply stating a fact and not taking any side in this?

I kinda get the idea at this point you should all settle down and not get so easily offended when someone doesn't like something in the comic. Seriously, let's get back on topic already and stop being so overly emotional over one person sayingb they don't like something

[primalxconvoy]

Why did you start your post with that comment? It wasn't appropriate. Neither were your comments regarding the other site. Please consider each website "Vegas". In fact, I think some of the websites even forbid the commenting of other websites, as basic due diligence.

Oh look it's Primalxconvoy...yay

Unnecessary.
Ease up.

I apologize that was very rude of me and undeserved.

Just a bad day and I'm recovering from an injury that is very irritating so seeing a post and a name from a user who has made a few posts that have irritate me in the past almost pushed me over the edge, I'm a very easily triggered person in general and I'm feeling worse then usual so I'm sorry ffor any immature and wrong behavior.

However, you made some salient points; Sakamoto was NOT responsible for Kiss Players, as that was his senior artist (at the time), Yuki Oshima. Below are both of their profiles:

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hayato_Sakamoto

- http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Yuki_Ohshima

That said, is there any evidence of Sakamoto working on Kiss Players? What's the worst stuff he's created if not? Tfwiki hasn't got any info on him being engaged in any controversy.

The worse I have heard from Sakamoto is that he draws curvy women/girls who sometimes have little amount of clothes and while it bothers me a little I just go with "Another day, another drawing or picture of a girl whatever" and then move on with my day because it's everywhere and there's nothing that can be done about it all I can do is just move along and ignore it.

At least Sakamoto is a decent drawer otherwise and has good TF lore knowledge nobody is perfect so I'm just going to outweigh the pros to the cons (Keeps me sane with that way of thinking) and I'm sure that Takara will just find someone else to replace him who might draw the same things.

I'll have a worse view of him if he does or draws anything worse but for right now it's just some harmless drawings.

Also, I agree with your views on Leia somewhat. I haven't semiotically analysed"Slave Leia", but I am sure that there is definitiely room for debate (it was a "U" rated film, I belive?). Such adult themed depictions in childrens' media frustrate me, too (or at least allow for debate on the matter). One could argue whether such content was via "easter eggs" or was balatantly on show and could be understood, to some extent, by the children watching it (arguably then reinforcing possibly negative views, imagery, etc).

All I want to say is that I tried to show the clone wars show to my family and my step dad (Who is a big fan of the movies) couldn't continue watching it after 6 episodes because of the way Ahsoka is dressed which is a shame because it's a great show but I understand his reasoning and I agree that her dress attire was not exactly appropriate, both outfits but for different reasons.

No problems. If I use such terms, I have to expect commentary on it back from others, as that's the nature of a discussion forum. Otherwise it would by hypocritical of me to continue to critique other's work/comments.

Anyway, with regards to TCWs, that's how I felt about KISS Players; a line had been crossed and I couldn't show pictures of my toys to my kids at school.

Back on topic, does anyone have trouble with the cohesion of the comics? Read from left to right OR right to left, the speech bubbles all seem random to me. I wish translators would number the speech bubbles in un-flopped comics...

[Insurgent]

Once translated, i think there was only one of these i needed to be told the reading order. Sometimes i might accidentally go to the wrong image, but i realise and can correct myself normally.

[Evil Eye]

At the risk of reigniting an entirely unnecessary sh!tstorm, I would like to remind everyone that these are CARTOONS representing FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, in turn representing PLASTIC TOYS, and therefore not really anything to get riled up about. And in all honesty they're about as tame as it comes- we're not talking about impossibly detailed close-ups of a young girl's backside clad in skimpy panties with every fold lovingly rendered, we're talking about a few brief, low-detail, highly comedic panels of Nightbeat in 80s bikini armour, which is more homage than fanservice in all honesty. Context is important, guys.

Furthermore, wanting someone sacked and calling him a "wretched little man" just because they draw (EXTREMELY tame) images that YOU don't like is petty in the extreme. And that's before we touch on the laughable (not to mention kinda racist) accusations of Japanese society being "overly male-dominated". Compared to the borderline-socialist (and on the verge of collapse) European countries, maybe. But compared to the rest of the world, especially its neighbours in Asia, it's downright progressive.

TLDR: Stop getting worked up about silly comics.

Moving swiftly on...

I wonder if Takara is going to release TR Windblade in the Legends line? I hope so, maybe with a better sword?

[Sabrblade]

This is what Nightbeat's outfit is based on:



The original design for Chi Chi from Dragon Ball.

[Cobotron]

Every time this stuff comes up it's always the same story. And the same players.

I get it. It's a sensitive topic. Everyone has different opinions, and opinions are welcome here. But if you can't debate those opinions in a calm and respectful way that doesn't target a specific user, then don't make the post. Target the topic not the user.

The topic here is Takara Legends TOYS and sometimes it's accompanying fiction, not a moral/ethical debate over cultural objectification of woman and little girls in pop culture media. If you'd like to debate that topic. Start a thread somewhere else.

Let's move on, and stay on topic!




@SW's SH - That totally SUCKS about your Blackarachnia! I've been worried about Slipstream since I got her. Takara has been using an excessive amount of clear plastic lately on parts that don't need to be or should be cast in something more resilient, and I don't get why. I have a bad feeling about the new Legends Hot Rodimus. That chest is going to explode like the flames painted on it.

[TF-fan kev777]

Oh hey speaking of; I was messing with my legends blackarachnia, the elbow ball sockets are cracked and crumbling. And I haven't messed with the figure since i bought it, and it wasn't cracking then.

Damn, its going to be a long day at work worrying about whether I have anything to worry about.

[Evil Eye]

Oh hey speaking of; I was messing with my legends blackarachnia, the elbow ball sockets are cracked and crumbling. And I haven't messed with the figure since i bought it, and it wasn't cracking then.

Well, bugger. That sucks- sounds almost like Gold Plastic Syndrome. I was planning on getting her (as one can never have too many spiders) and now I'm not sure.

[primalxconvoy]

At the risk of reigniting an entirely unnecessary sh!tstorm, I would like to remind everyone that these are CARTOONS representing FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, in turn representing PLASTIC TOYS, and therefore not really anything to get riled up about. And in all honesty they're about as tame as it comes- we're not talking about impossibly detailed close-ups of a young girl's backside clad in skimpy panties with every fold lovingly rendered, we're talking about a few brief, low-detail, highly comedic panels of Nightbeat in 80s bikini armour, which is more homage than fanservice in all honesty. Context is important, guys.

It's the allusion to more extreme content, such as Kiss players. Furthermore, titillation, or subtle references to unwanted or, for the sake of argument, "immoral" content or ideas is still unacceptable. For some, the bikini was to gender/sexual issues what having a transformer reading "Little Black Sambo" might be to race issues. The issue still remains, if it is, arguably, there at all. As you stated, this is a kids' medium/toyline, so avoiding such issues and/or not promoting them is key.

Furthermore, wanting someone sacked and calling him a "wretched little man" just because they draw (EXTREMELY tame) images that YOU don't like is petty in the extreme.

It's not just this image. It's the others he has drawn. I would like such people removed from the hobby I love. I would also like Michael Bay removed, too, for similar reasons.

And that's before we touch on the laughable (not to mention kinda racist) accusations of Japanese society being "overly male-dominated". Compared to the borderline-socialist (and on the verge of collapse) European countries, maybe. But compared to the rest of the world, especially its neighbours in Asia, it's downright progressive.

You are incorrect here. A quick Google search will educate you that Japan is indeed a male dominated society still, with gender inequality much below that of equivalent developed and/or Western nations:

- http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2 ... e-politics

- https://www.timeshighereducation.com/ne ... 77.article

- http://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-34455391

- http://reports.weforum.org/global-gende ... conomy=JPN

(Japan was ranked 111th out of about 142 nations when it came to gender equality/inequality). Japan is the third largest economy in the world, so they're really is no excuse for this. Comparing it to its neighbors in Asia is inaccurate, due to the fact that Japan's wealth and developed nature gives it a higher set of standards to uphold.

In fact, recently, the Prime Minister of Japan instigated "Womenomics" to counter this trend:

- https://qz.com/780915/womenomics-and-wo ... in-return/

More recently still, female government workers managed to get a sexist advertisement removed from a local government campaign, even though the make behind it refused to apologise:

- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... aV86aPqbFo

If it wasn't for people like the women in the article, the video would have revived. After, all, it's harmless, right? It's not like anyone was harmed in the video.

So, no, it's not laughable or racist to state that Japan is a make dominated society. It's a fact.

In conclusion, whether you agree that such imagery is acceptable or not is a matter of choice and the reasons behind why they were created could be debated. However, Japan IS still a developed country with shockingly poor gender equality, compared to other developed nations (even though I believe that women had the right to vote before the UK/USA, I think). I believe that the current state of Japanese media is linked to and a reflection of this state.


EDIT:

- I just read the Mod's statement above and will not continue this debate here. I'm sure there are other avenues to have this conversation. The only reason I stepped in was that someone else voiced distaste in such imagery and others secondly dismissed it. I can't let that go unchallenged, as I fear that this would be considered "OK" at boards like this. Basically, it's not everyone here that thinks this imagery is OK, especially not in Japan.

I've said my bit on this subject and thank the mods and admins for allowing us to debate it somewhat here.

Cheers.

[Kurona]

Interesting as that is - and it is rather interesting - like Cobo said, we should stay away from ethical and political discussions on the thread about toys.

[primalxconvoy]

I think the only way that's going to happen is if the site takes steps to edit or not report content that is politically charged. In this case, by editing or removing the potentially troublesome picture of the bikini, or not reporting on it to begin with.

However, without debate and discussion, how will critiques or development of stores be part of the fandom? We NEED such things. Just like at the MASK discussion concerning Matt Tracker, or the more mature aspects of IDW's Transformers stories, such as coupling (Chromedome and Rewind, wasn't it?), Transformers being brainwashed/having their faces removed and the the political, racially and arguably gender based ideas behind the "Functionalust/anti beast mode TFs" in IDW. They have helped the universe grow!