The Energon Pub

Henry921 wrote:My original post doesn't mention Jazz at all, but rather specifies my intent to stay neutral in the argument of whether Jazz should be retooled from Prowl. My point of contention was the underlying assertion that the MP line was not intended to make retools/redecos.

Got it.

Since my original post was refuting those who were saying Jazz would work as a Prowl retool, Bowspearer (who was doing the same as I was) must have thought your disagreement with my post meant you were in the same "Jazz from Prowl" camp as those whom we were refuting, which thusly led to this misunderstanding.

warzon3 wrote:

TimothyR wrote:

warzon3 wrote:So far I think I'm liking the toon accurate feet/legs.

Prowls shoulders seem too far apart in the teaser though. The chest and arms are huge making the door wings look puny.

And the headsculpt doesn't seem very sleek. Stubby wings on the head and he has no neck? Maybe it is a picture of Smokescreen instead???

I don't understand what you mean when you say that his head doesn't look sleek.

No neck? From both of the angles that we've seen, the neck wouldn't be visible.

I'm hoping when we see it in color, his doors won't look so small.

In the teaser images MP Prowl's helmet gets really wide at the cheeks and seems to continue getting wider all the way down his neck. It looks very blocky too....that isn't how it is in the cartoon.

....yes I hope it just the angle of the photo.

I personally don't see the head getting wider, and from the previous enhanced photo we saw, I think the head looks great.. But, as usual, everything is subjective.

Haven't read through all 17 pages, but i found this interpretation (courtesy of FTW2005)

Henry921 wrote:Still not seeing how I contradicted myself. We don't know the exact principles involved with the Takara engineers, and I won't speculate. However, just like in G1, we're seeing mold reuse of characters, both because they're popular, and because they can be redecoed. The figures not redecoed in the MP line have no obvious counterparts. Guys like Megatron, Hot Rod, and Grimlock don't have as many well known analogues as Optimus and Starscream.

Yes, every line has redecos and retools, but in MP's case it's both frugal and profitable, since they have popular characters like Thundercracker and Frenzy to make from existing molds.

My original post doesn't mention Jazz at all, but rather specifies my intent to stay neutral in the argument of whether Jazz should be retooled from Prowl. My point of contention was the underlying assertion that the MP line was not intended to make retools/redecos.

We've seen new molds like Soundwave, certainly, but we've also seen molds that can and indeed have been redecoed multiple times, just as we're seeing now with a new mold of Prowl, redecoed into three other forms.

THAT was my point, and it has never involved Jazz at all.

Actually you've just proved you contradicted yourself and here's why.

When it comes to the design paradigms here, then there is no such thing as a neutral position as arguments falls into one of 2 camps.

One premise is that the design premise for the Masterpiece line is identical to that of Binartech and CHUG- namely that the Masterpiece design is merely a modernisation of original characters where there is an emphasis on recolour/retool potential and over meticulous adherence to the original character design.

Alternately the other premise is that the Masterpiece line is a modernisation of the original G1 designs (rather than the characters). As such figures will never be recolours or retools that were never recolours retools to begin with. While some figures might share molds or the majority of tooling and might get released together, that is entirely due to capitalising on similarities, rather than shoehoring characters into the same mould which originally shared the same mould (eg Classics Sideswipe and Sunstreaker and BT Red Alert and Prowl).

Now let's look at the contentious statement made by you:

Henry921 wrote:I think redecoes and retools are core to the Masterpiece series, just as it was to the original G1 toyline.

The problem when you say that is that G1 and the Masterpiece line have radically different design premises. With G1, particularly 1984-1985, it was about taking a group of Diaclone, Microman, Beetras, Dorvack and other one-off toy designs, and rebranding them into a single coherent toyline.

Where moulds could be retooled or recoloured, they were- and subsequently given individual identities. Skywarp immediately comes to mind as an example of this. In other words, G1 was not required to slavishly adhere to the pretf toolings and colour schemes in the same way that the Masterpiece line must meticulously remain true to the original G1 designs. Thus when you say that the Masterpiece line will remain faithful to the G1 designs and then say that the Masterpiece line and G1 lines share the same design paradigm with regards to recolours, then you are in contradiction with yourself.