The Energon Pub

[bvzxa]

I'm sick of Hasbro because they force you into their web of deceit. Price points have gone up; quality went down. Hasbro is ok for a kid who's parent(s) doesn't know better and sees "collect all 5" to make big robot.

Now here I come, a collector. What do I see, I nanny brown jet...NO WAY?!?! Another repaint without even a remolded head sculpt? Seriously damn man how many times you gonna use the jet mold now.

In the past I have given Hasbro credit for most of CHUG, with exceptions for Megatron and Astrotrain, I like what they had to offer. Only think Takara id was improve on paint and details so most changes were minor at best, exceptions again for Megatron and Astrotrain.

We get here and the Aerialbots and Stunticons were bascially the blueprint for the entire line...you see what they did now.

Also after owning Hasbro Aerialbots and owning Takars's version at the same time, the quality is just plain better.

Since we're on cost if you bought the Hasbro Aerialbot 5 minus Quickslinger, you spent $91. If you blinked and missed the release of Quickslinger, you are spending an additional $35 for him. So if you're not a fan of Alpha Bravo the better choice is Takara. The paints are a matte finish over the gloss so the details stand out more. I admit when I first got the Hasbro set I thought it was a pretty good job, but the paint apps on Takara are just right.

Again molding aside, Takara wins for value and price. As they say you get what you pay for this time around.

So if they do release right now Deluxe Groove, you know he's gonna sell out and then he's gonna go up in price if you missed the release you're going to be paying more in a sense to have accuracy for you Hasbro set.

Just like CW Devastator if you want accuracy you have to spend at least $70 for two upgrade sets to complete the look. This is just bad comedy. Takara FTW!!

This is what separates the men from the crying boys.

[william-james88]

Told ya Will had this.

Haha, thanks. So what did you think? Was it clear, did it make sense to you? Could you handle it if I am not around?

I think so. Just say BBTS is a takara scalper and that actual japanese sites like ami ami have the prices set at about the american price, just with shipping costs that may be large cause you're american! Booyah

Haha, nice job. Except, its better and more apt to say that BBTS are not first party takara retailers (unlike amiami) rather than call them scalpers.

[LOST Cybertronian]

So in the end, Takara and Hasbro is the same price, you just have to add the shipping, but that depends on where you are in the world, which varies from fan to fan.

Another positive for Hasbro is that you can buy the figures individually which is great for those who cannot drop the money at one time on a set. I guess the argument could be made for saving the money but many people like me are horrible at saving so I just buy when I can.

[Deadput]

Awesome discussion points, glad to have you here Mirageandjazz! I actually believe that due to Takara's big emphasis on G1 accuracy, they wouldnt release LioKaiser. If they use the Skylynx mold, I think it will only be once and it will be for another awesome but goofy combining idea, as they did with Grand Galvatron (what an amazing name he has!).

I can totally see Computron though and I am super curious about how that will work out since Hasbro is also releasing him as a box set with (supposedly) the G1 members. So I dont know how much it would differ if at all. It is known that Takara does not care what Hasbro is doing for this line and will do what they want (if it's possible) but in this case, I feel that both companies might end up with a similar product in the end.

Thank you Will it's nice to speculate on things one of my favorite things to do.

Also nice thread save Will


It is somewhat a shame on some parts that Takara only goes completely G1 accurate and not more like the Grand Galvatron route because we really could get some great toys from this and Hasbro's lines.


I really do think that Combiner wars is the best Transformers line despite repeating things a bit no other Transformers toyline has made me want to obtain every single figure released in it as much as Combiner Wars.


Shame that the only figures I have been able to get from the line is Blackjack and Battle Core Optimus Prime to repurpose as Nova Prime of course.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Told ya Will had this.

Haha, thanks. So what did you think? Was it clear, did it make sense to you? Could you handle it if I am not around?

I think so. Just say BBTS is a takara scalper and that actual japanese sites like ami ami have the prices set at about the american price, just with shipping costs that may be large cause you're american! Booyah

Haha, nice job. Except, its better and more apt to say that BBTS are not first party takara retailers (unlike amiami) rather than call them scalpers.

Haha, got it. Still though, despite all that, I am still a hasbro preference.

[Deadput]

I'm sick of Hasbro because they force you into their web of deceit. Price points have gone up; quality went down. Hasbro is ok for a kid who's parent(s) doesn't know better and sees "collect all 5" to make big robot.


This is what separates the men from the crying boys.

These posts couldn't be more false.


Hasbro is not an evil corporation their a kids toy company ran by human beings that have limits and able to make mistakes they don't have an unlimited budget or plastic and Hasbro can't just do what it wants.


Their not deceiving you pal your deceiving yourself with your unrealistically high expectations.


Also that second line of yours in my quote is not exactly a nice thing to say.

[steals_your_goats]

I really do think that Combiner wars is the best Transformers line despite repeating things a bit no other Transformers toyline has made me want to obtain every single figure released in it as much as Combiner Wars

I couldn't agree more with this. Combiner wars is what really got me into collecting and I couldn't be happier. I feel like the prime wars trilogy will push me to complete the entire line which is great for a newer collector, but terrible for my wallet.

As to your speculation from earlier I think that Takara will definitely release Computron but I'm not sure on sky reign. As for Liokaiser, I think they will since the character is basically theirs but I'm not sure how they'll do it. The Hasbro route would be easiest but I can see them trying to stay as close to the original as possible. However doing that brings up a whole new set of engineering challenges.

[fenrir72]

I really do think that Combiner wars is the best Transformers line despite repeating things a bit no other Transformers toyline has made me want to obtain every single figure released in it as much as Combiner Wars

I couldn't agree more with this. Combiner wars is what really got me into collecting and I couldn't be happier. I feel like the prime wars trilogy will push me to complete the entire line which is great for a newer collector, but terrible for my wallet.

As to your speculation from earlier I think that Takara will definitely release Computron but I'm not sure on sky reign. As for Liokaiser, I think they will since the character is basically theirs but I'm not sure how they'll do it. The Hasbro route would be easiest but I can see them trying to stay as close to the original as possible. However doing that brings up a whole new set of engineering challenges.

If a Leokaiser, I speculate retooling the shuttle mode into something of the B-1b bomber type or and over sized F14 swing wing type jet. But being 6 members of the Breastforce, TT might have to add a legend type chest piece vehicle.

[steals_your_goats]

I really do think that Combiner wars is the best Transformers line despite repeating things a bit no other Transformers toyline has made me want to obtain every single figure released in it as much as Combiner Wars

I couldn't agree more with this. Combiner wars is what really got me into collecting and I couldn't be happier. I feel like the prime wars trilogy will push me to complete the entire line which is great for a newer collector, but terrible for my wallet.

As to your speculation from earlier I think that Takara will definitely release Computron but I'm not sure on sky reign. As for Liokaiser, I think they will since the character is basically theirs but I'm not sure how they'll do it. The Hasbro route would be easiest but I can see them trying to stay as close to the original as possible. However doing that brings up a whole new set of engineering challenges.

If a Leokaiser, I speculate retooling the shuttle mode into something of the B-1b bomber type or and over sized F14 swing wing type jet. But being 6 members of the Breastforce, TT might have to add a legend type chest piece vehicle.

I was thinking more along the lines of 6 deluxe figures. They could use the same limbs as the Hasbro ones with maybe some minor retooling and then make two deluxes that can make up the torso. I think it's possible to do but I don't know if it would be worth their effort.

[bvzxa]

I'm sick of Hasbro because they force you into their web of deceit. Price points have gone up; quality went down. Hasbro is ok for a kid who's parent(s) doesn't know better and sees "collect all 5" to make big robot.


This is what separates the men from the crying boys.

These posts couldn't be more false.


Hasbro is not an evil corporation their a kids toy company ran by human beings that have limits and able to make mistakes they don't have an unlimited budget or plastic and Hasbro can't just do what it wants.


Their not deceiving you pal your deceiving yourself with your unrealistically high expectations.


Also that second line of yours in my quote is not exactly a nice thing to say.

So in essence I should expect crap quality because?....

Deceiving myself? No, that would be following you're logic. I'll go and just buy Takara.

And where did I quote you?

[Gauntlet101010]

Really? Combiner Wars is Hasbro's best line?

I mean, I like that they're finally doing Combiners justice with limbs being a proper size and not Scouts or something. But the mould reuse has gotten pretty bad. I feel satisfied with my purchases (UW Superion, Menasor, Defensor, and Devestator), but if I had gotten completionist on it and stayed with Hasbro I'd have probably gotten frustrated by now.

[fenrir72]

I really do think that Combiner wars is the best Transformers line despite repeating things a bit no other Transformers toyline has made me want to obtain every single figure released in it as much as Combiner Wars

I couldn't agree more with this. Combiner wars is what really got me into collecting and I couldn't be happier. I feel like the prime wars trilogy will push me to complete the entire line which is great for a newer collector, but terrible for my wallet.

As to your speculation from earlier I think that Takara will definitely release Computron but I'm not sure on sky reign. As for Liokaiser, I think they will since the character is basically theirs but I'm not sure how they'll do it. The Hasbro route would be easiest but I can see them trying to stay as close to the original as possible. However doing that brings up a whole new set of engineering challenges.

If a Leokaiser, I speculate retooling the shuttle mode into something of the B-1b bomber type or and over sized F14 swing wing type jet. But being 6 members of the Breastforce, TT might have to add a legend type chest piece vehicle.

I was thinking more along the lines of 6 deluxe figures. They could use the same limbs as the Hasbro ones with maybe some minor retooling and then make two deluxes that can make up the torso. I think it's possible to do but I don't know if it would be worth their effort.

Yah. As the original Leokaiser had two vehicles that made up the torso. As you mentioned, creating a new limb bot is easier but two new molds that would form the torso, longshot.

On another related discussion, parts forming isn't all that bad. It still falls under the "transforming" definition. If done intelligently, it would give good results.

[Deadput]

So in essence I should expect crap quality because?....

Deceiving myself? No, that would be following you're logic. I'll go and just buy Takara.

And where did I quote you?

I'm saying you should not expect god tier quality from a toy company.


Takara is not any better then Hasbro believe it or not.



And you did not quote me I'm talking about your line in my quote about the difference between man and crying boys.

[Deadput]

Really? Combiner Wars is Hasbro's best line?

I mean, I like that they're finally doing Combiners justice with limbs being a proper size and not Scouts or something. But the mould reuse has gotten pretty bad. I feel satisfied with my purchases (UW Superion, Menasor, Defensor, and Devestator), but if I had gotten completionist on it and stayed with Hasbro I'd have probably gotten frustrated by now.

Yeah that's what I'm saying and it's an opinion.


So what if they reuse a mold if the toy is fun why complain?


Hot Wheels, Barbie, Lego and other toy brands reuse things all the time yet when Transformers does it Hasbro becomes evil money stealing people for trying to sell children's toys we should'f outgrown years ago.




Also everyone loves the Seekers and the Prowl reuses/remolds as well as other figures yet their just a bunch of repaints.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

Really? Combiner Wars is Hasbro's best line?

I mean, I like that they're finally doing Combiners justice with limbs being a proper size and not Scouts or something. But the mould reuse has gotten pretty bad. I feel satisfied with my purchases (UW Superion, Menasor, Defensor, and Devestator), but if I had gotten completionist on it and stayed with Hasbro I'd have probably gotten frustrated by now.

Yeah that's what I'm saying and it's an opinion.


So what if they reuse a mold if the toy is fun why complain?


Hot Wheels, Barbie, Lego and other toy brands reuse things all the time yet when Transformers does it Hasbro becomes evil money stealing people for trying to sell children's toys we should'f outgrown years ago.




Also everyone loves the Seekers and the Prowl reuses/remolds as well as other figures yet their just a bunch of repaints.

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Hey fellas, if we're gonna talk hasbro stuff here, can we move it to the combiner wars thread please? And everyone can have their opinions on hasbro v takara (This line has hooked me on collecting hardcore, and I do think this is the best and most consistent line that I've been a part of) just make sure we do this respectfully. And neither hasbro nor Takara are evil deities who just want to ruin you. Just let that go and buy and play with the toys, makes life so much more relaxing

[Deadput]

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

Precisely there is not a single bad figure in Combiner wars their all decent some greater then others but regardless still decent and fun to play with.


Toys are about how fun they are not about if some dude comes or does not come with some obscure gun only die hard fans car about or 100% accurate paint.

[bvzxa]

So in essence I should expect crap quality because?....

Deceiving myself? No, that would be following you're logic. I'll go and just buy Takara.

And where did I quote you?

I'm saying you should not expect god tier quality from a toy company.


Takara is not any better then Hasbro believe it or not.



And you did not quote me I'm talking about your line in my quote about the difference between man and crying boys.

"Takara is not any better than Hasbro"...and I should take your word for it?

I have been playing with these toys since 1984. I have been collecting Japanese Transformers since 1996. My first being God Ginrai/Godbomber, and then all of the Beast Wars lines frm both Hasbro and Takara since 1999. That was when I realized Hasbro is kinda meh.

I also collected Car Robots back in 2000. I bought all the first releases and I was stoked to see Hasbro come out a year later with R.I.D. The first thing Hasbro did with the RID versions of the Autuobot Brothers was skimp on not only paint apps, but actual molded details. I took X-Brawn back to the store after I compared him to Wildrider. Yeah the Unicron trilogy was safe, and CHUG was safe give or take a few figures pain twise. However with Combiner Wars vs. Unite warriors, there are loads of differences and most reviewers have noted these such as fixes and paint details that Takara improved on. So what you're saying is greatly opinionated with zero facts.

What are you damage control for Hasbro?

[william-james88]

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

Its easy for all your year's deluxes to be good when you base them on only 7 decent molds and a sub par one (breakdown)

[bvzxa]

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

Its easy for all your year's deluxes to be good when you base them on only 7 decent molds and a sub par one (breakdown)

Breakdown should never be repainted again...but oh the joy, Hasbro did it 3 more times

[Gauntlet101010]

Really? Combiner Wars is Hasbro's best line?

I mean, I like that they're finally doing Combiners justice with limbs being a proper size and not Scouts or something. But the mould reuse has gotten pretty bad. I feel satisfied with my purchases (UW Superion, Menasor, Defensor, and Devestator), but if I had gotten completionist on it and stayed with Hasbro I'd have probably gotten frustrated by now.

Yeah that's what I'm saying and it's an opinion.


So what if they reuse a mold if the toy is fun why complain?


Hot Wheels, Barbie, Lego and other toy brands reuse things all the time yet when Transformers does it Hasbro becomes evil money stealing people for trying to sell children's toys we should'f outgrown years ago.




Also everyone loves the Seekers and the Prowl reuses/remolds as well as other figures yet their just a bunch of repaints.

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

The deluxes are okay. Good, but none are blowing my mind. Granted, they're working with a gigantic combiner port in their torso; there's a limit to what they can do. And they have gone all-in. Not like Energon, where the combiners were disappointing; they are serious about the VAST majority of their line making a proper, well-scaled, combiner. And there are some heavy remoulds going on. And some not so heavy. So they're doing a good job.

But best? I mean ... painted, plastic windows, sparse paint apps, heavy mould reuse ... I can't give 'em best.

As for mould reuse for other lines, well, we aren't talking about Barbies or Hot Wheels.

And it wasn't me who said Hasbro was an "evil money grubbing corporation."

And, yeah, you have an opinion. I also have an opinion. If we weren't allowed to disagree then there's no use having a forum.

[Burn]

Hey fellas, if we're gonna talk hasbro stuff here, can we move it to the combiner wars thread please?

Just in case some of you missed it.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

To be fair CW was probably the most consistent line in a long time with actual good figures. Mostly every toy was either okay, or really good, ESPECIALLY the deluxes. The deluxes were all good.

Precisely there is not a single bad figure in Combiner wars their all decent some greater then others but regardless still decent and fun to play with.


Toys are about how fun they are not about if some dude comes or does not come with some obscure gun only die hard fans car about or 100% accurate paint.

Please mirageandjazz1197 think of the little kids!


(jk)

[william-james88]

While I am completely happy to see everyone liking Combiner Wars, objectively speaking this is not Hasbro's best line in terms of quality and value for your buck. For the same prices (counting inflation), the RID 2001 line gave us some insane engineering, heavy use of clear plastic, lots of paint, rubber wheels and projectiles. There was also the animated line which gave us amazing designs and very unique transformations. Then there was the Cybertron/Galaxy Force line which is probably the peak for style and simplicity for toys, making the toys perfect for both collectors and kids. Simple without it sacrificing anything, and loads of details (plus projectiles, clear plastic, nice paint jobs, big heavy toys, sounds and electronics ect).

There are lots more lines like this and the year 2010 was just insane. I cant believe that 6 years ago you could get HFTD Leader Starscream for the same price people are getting Leader Megatron or Ultra Magnus today, it feels like another era. Hell, forget Magnus, he cost the same as CW Leader Starscream. I think I am going to start a fit, call the men in the white coats!

While CW is a super fun line with an excellent combiner port system, there is less value when looking at the diversity in designs and materials, plus the lack of added value for the leader class toys. Doesnt mean its a bad line at all, it is leagues better than FOC. But I would not call this the golden age either. It was discussed more in depth here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=105951&p=1747589&hilit=golden+age#p1747479

In short, think about it guys, Classics Prime is a better voyager Prime figure than CW Prime and that toy came out 10 years ago.

[Deadput]

Please mirageandjazz1197 think of the little kids!


(jk)

Wait was there something wrong with what I said?