The Energon Pub

diosoth wrote:Overall, I think the fandom is solely to blame for the inflated prices to begin with. If people weren't willing to pay $50 or more for a deluxe because it's been out of production for a year, no one would charge that much.

Values are going up simply because people are too willing to get the toy that they don't worry about the cost.

Isn't that the definition of a collectible? The harder something is to find, the more people are generally willing to spend on it. Do you think I should still be able to get Action Comics #1 for 10 cents?

I don't think you can fault either party here, that being the online retailer or the collector.

The online retailer knows that to get as many sales as possiblem, pre-orders are essential. It benefits the consumer also in them knowing they are guaranteed to get something they truly want.

As for the collector, at the very heart of values for any collectible is simple supply and demmand. Collectors pay what they think an item is worth to them and that's simply how the market works. That goes for Transformers, baseball cards, artwork and the list goes on an on.

Nekoman wrote:Not all collectors like G1 and not all collectors pay for investments.

Collecting Transformers and not liking G1 is like being super into the bible and not liking Jesus.

Such collectors should be exiled and forced to watch their collections burned to the ground.

Literally.

Meister cries inside wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Not all collectors like G1 and not all collectors pay for investments.

Collecting Transformers and not liking G1 is like being super into the bible and not liking Jesus.

Such collectors should be exiled and forced to watch their collections burned to the ground.

Literally.

Wow. You know you're the second person today that has pretty much pissed me off to no end.

Iron-Man wrote:

Meister cries inside wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Not all collectors like G1 and not all collectors pay for investments.

Collecting Transformers and not liking G1 is like being super into the bible and not liking Jesus.

Such collectors should be exiled and forced to watch their collections burned to the ground.

Literally.

Wow. You know you're the second person today that has pretty much pissed me off to no end.

Why?

Because I collect Transformers and don't like G1. Obviously.

Meister cries inside wrote:

Iron-Man wrote:

Meister cries inside wrote:Collecting Transformers and not liking G1 is like being super into the bible and not liking Jesus.

Such collectors should be exiled and forced to watch their collections burned to the ground.

Literally.

Wow. You know you're the second person today that has pretty much pissed me off to no end.

Why?

Because there are a lot of collectors out there that don't collect G1 figures, or like G1. Saying something like that reeks off arrogance and ignorance. Coming from an objective point of view the show itself had some major plotholes, and at times poor animation. Compared to modern figures, most of the toys are bricks with four poses: arms down, left arm up, right arm up, both arms up.

I'm one of the collectors that don't collect G1 for that reason.

Both of your Transformer collecting licenses have been revoked for 6 months. At the end of this banishment we will re-evaluate your taste and decide whether or not you can be reinstated in the Transformers collecting association.

Dude? Word to the wise: stop now. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole.

I'm obviously kidding around. You can lighten up a bit.

I've always been a fan of G1. Partly because that's what I grew up with, and partly because I believe that to truly appreciate anything (especially something as vast and continually evolving as TransFormers) you should have an appreciation for where it all began. Yes I know, technically it "began" with Diaclone, etc, but for sake of argument let's call G1 the starting point for TransFormers. I'm not saying you have to like and/or buy G1 figures or fiction. I'm just saying it holds a special place of value within the franchise. Each and every incarnation of TransFormers holds some value or contributes something to the franchise that none of the other lines have. Also, not liking any series is a very risky thing to say. I used to be of the opinion that I did not like The Unicron Trilogy. Period. At all. It had no redeeming qualities to me whatsoever. Then I started to realise that what I didn't care for very much were the AEC cartoons and the Energon toyline. That said, I do actually own a few figures from Energon that I found worthy of my purchase, and I watched most of TF:Cybertron. They aren't my favorites but I appreciate them for what they contributed to the franchise. I like Energon Megatron. I like Cybertron Prime (mainly because he's an homage to G1 Star Convoy, plus he's just plain badass).

I think what I'm trying to say here is that it's easier and better to say favorite or least favorite than like or dislike. Besides, we're all TransFormers fans in the broader sense. Why do we feel the need to keep bringing back the ideas of "Geewunners" or "AEC Kids"? That same approach is what caused a major fallout in the fandom during the debut of Beast Wars. Let's try to learn from past mistakes and just be TransFans, shall we?

</soapbox>

Savage wrote:I've always been a fan of G1. Partly because that's what I grew up with, and partly because I believe that to truly appreciate anything (especially something as vast and continually evolving as TransFormers) you should have an appreciation for where it all began. Yes I know, technically it "began" with Diaclone, etc, but for sake of argument let's call G1 the starting point for TransFormers. I'm not saying you have to like and/or buy G1 figures or fiction. I'm just saying it holds a special place of value within the franchise. Each and every incarnation of TransFormers holds some value or contributes something to the franchise that none of the other lines have. Also, not liking any series is a very risky thing to say. I used to be of the opinion that I did not like The Unicron Trilogy. Period. At all. It had no redeeming qualities to me whatsoever. Then I started to realise that what I didn't care for very much were the AEC cartoons and the Energon toyline. That said, I do actually own a few figures from Energon that I found worthy of my purchase, and I watched most of TF:Cybertron. They aren't my favorites but I appreciate them for what they contributed to the franchise. I like Energon Megatron. I like Cybertron Prime (mainly because he's an homage to G1 Star Convoy, plus he's just plain badass).

I think what I'm trying to say here is that it's easier and better to say favorite or least favorite than like or dislike. Besides, we're all TransFormers fans in the broader sense. Why do we feel the need to keep bringing back the ideas of "Geewunners" or "AEC Kids"? That same approach is what caused a major fallout in the fandom during the debut of Beast Wars. Let's try to learn from past mistakes and just be TransFans, shall we?

Thank you for a sensible reply.

In my mind, you can choose not to prefer G1, but Transformers IS G1. Almost everything that has come after it, for better or worse, is strongly rooted or outright based off of the Transformers G1 mythology.

Plus, the blocky old toys look way cooler on display shelves to me. They have that cheesy vintage quality that catches your eye. Most people who come to my home and view my collection almost always gravitate towards the G1 section. For better or worse, there is a reason for that.

Crimson Dynamo wrote:we're talking about the toys that will be available in Toys R Us and Target for normal prices.

If only we all actually had Toys R Us's and Target's in our home countries. That, and if deluxes only cost US$10 everywhere you might have a point.

Meister cries inside wrote:Collecting Transformers and not liking G1 is like being super into the bible and not liking Jesus.

Such collectors should be exiled and forced to watch their collections burned to the ground.

Literally.

I was, at first, offended by the insinuation that "real" collectors MUST love G1 and should have their collections torched...and I calmed down since I read that..I didn't wanna post in anger.
I had an extensive G1 collection back in the day, and I am glad to be rid of most of them. Mind you, I have all possible respect for G1 for what they were, but I would not re-buy all the ones I sold off. I am done with them. They lack the articulation I require for the scene-displays that I use when I display my collection. Face it, in 1984, they were the bee's-knees...now they are inarticulate bricks.
So, to make a blanket-statement such as was made, you were BOUND to irritate some people!

There are enough ways and variations to collect to appease anyone.

No one way is proven to be better than any other. Like what you like, collect how you want to collect, and be a fan, but don't berate others for doing it how they would like to when it does not effect you in the slightest.

Nekoman wrote:
It’s a preorder. When it ships, it ships at the same time the toy is released, so you don’t get it early.

Note the original poster first said "before anyone else". I think that is more what he had in mind, rather than "early".

By "released" do you mean when the toys are shipped from the manufacturer, or when stores are allowed to put them on the sales floor?

If it's the former, then I should think that preorders are in fact received early. If the latter, then I must say that is debatable as well. Many retailers will not put out or even order new stock until or unless the previous assortments are sold or dwindling. Not to mention hot items that sell out very quickly.

So chances are, preorders actually are received before many collectors are able to find the toys at retail.

Yeah, I'm talking about those collectors who just absolutely have to get the toys before anyone else. I just don't understand that mentality. And how do these types of people affect the way toy sellers sell toys?

I have nothing against people buying toys online, 'cause sometimes you just have to. It's the pandering to specialist sites that like to mark up their prices that sucks, because it's feeding the greed, or so it seems.

[quote="Counterpunch"]Are we angry or jealous about this?

quote]

Jealous about what?

Nekoman wrote:

Crimson Dynamo wrote:This rabid need to get the newest toys well before anyone else is giving toy sellers all the excuse they need to push the prices through the roof.

1. It’s a preorder. When it ships, it ships at the same time the toy is released, so you don’t get it early. I think it’s perfectly fine to pay a little more for the convenience, and that‘s why some people do.

So why are TF collectors prepared to pay these extortionate prices? Why is it so important to have the toys early?

2. Pretty much for the reasons stated above. When you place a preorder, you DO NOT get it early. In addition to that, some people believe it or not, don’t have a million and one retailers to shop at, so finding the figures at all may be difficult.

The same goes for those idiots buying stolen toys and prototypes from eBay. They're paying hundreds of dollars for first-run toys and poor-quality test shots that are rarely worth anything afterwards. Especially as they come loose, without boxes.

3. It’s pretty apparent there are not that many of those people. Regardless, they have the money, and seemingly don’t feel like waiting. They can do whatever they want with their money.

I often wonder how they feel when they see the same toy they paid a hundred bucks for warming the shelves in their latest Walmart, or stacked in discount bins for a third of the price.

4. It’s been years since I have seen a Transformer in a discount bin anywhere. More to the point, they probably don’t care. Those individuals did not want to wait, and they had the money, so they got theirs first.

I just wish the rest of the fandom would see sense and stop being so freaking pathetic - wait that extra month or so and save yourself a ton of cash.

5. What I don’t understand is why what other people do with their money bothers you so much. It’s none of your business. Why act as if these people are being ignorant if they’re only doing something to save themselves a little time?

Seriously, they could save that extra money and put it towards a rare, genuine, one-hundred percent original G1 toy instead. Y'know...a real investment?

Not all collectors like G1 and not all collectors pay for investments.

1. Some online sellers offer up a (marked up) preorder even before a picture of the toy is available. Some fans put their money down even before they know what they're buying. Sure, they may not be able to get the toys elsewhere at that point, but isn't that jumping the gun a little bit?

2.Exactly, so the online retailers have those collectors by the balls. They can mark their toys up as much as they like and Joe Solo who lives on a mountain peak will HAVE to pay. A fact of life you say...but still sad nonetheless.

3. I think there are plenty. And the more people willing to buy this stuff, the more likely toys will go missing from factories and appear on eBay. Good job collectors!

4. Yep. hence the question: "Are they going to far?" not "Is it right?" or "shouldn't they be givng the money to charity".


5. There are those people who are trying to save time. And there are those that don't care about throwing money at toys and driving up demand unecessarily, either because they plan to resell the toys on eBay, or because they're rabidly obsessed about winning the toy race.

I'm talking about the last two.

Geekee1 wrote:I think that a lot of the "gimmme now" feeling comes from the original lack of movie toys. There was a huge influx of fans when the movie came out, and that made the movie toys very scarce for a while, CC Bumblebee anyone?

I believe that that feeling hasn't been filtered out yet for quite a few people and therefore they are being very cautious and backing themselves up. And from what I've seen lately, BBTS' prices haven't been that bad on the new stuff, especially when buying the case assortments.

I agree.

Maybe I am an idiot but i love giving BBTS my money. They treat me great and seem like they care about my business.....thats more than i can say for the brick and mortar stores around me. I like supporting people who support me.

Iron-Man wrote:Nekoman. You just summed up my thoughts exactly. Hell, I personally preorder off of them for stuff for one reason. It's cheaper than retail. Yes you heard me right. I can buy every figure I want at one time and pay a single shipping price, and then on top of that have it all delivered right to my doorstep. With gas being 2.80 a gallon here, driving 12 miles to Elyria, stopping the car, searching the Target, starting the car, driving, stopping the car, searching the TRU, starting the car, driving, stopping the car, and finally searching Wal-Mart is retarded and idiotic. After paying for the gas, the toy and the taxes, it becomes cheaper to buy from an online store.

And his argument about people buying prototypes is mum at best. It's like getting angry at a rich guy paying 300,000 for some rare low produced Chevy Corvette from the 60's. If you don't make millions of dollars it seems foolish, but to someone that makes a high amount of money, it's chump change.

This topic screams "I am either on allowance or make very little money so I'm going to knock people who can afford to buy things on a whim when I can't".

Sir, your reply screams "I'm going to go on the defensive and totally miss the point."

People who buy stolen prototypes/oneshots and then sell them online are still thieves. And the people who buy from them are feeding the demand for stolen goods. You can talk about how rich they are 'til the cows come home, but they're still greedy, thieving sons of bitches.

You trying to rell me that this isn't sending out the wrong message to collectors and retailers? And when I say "wrong" I mean "right for them".

TurbofireJames wrote:Maybe I am an idiot but i love giving BBTS my money. They treat me great and seem like they care about my business.....thats more than i can say for the brick and mortar stores around me. I like supporting people who support me.

Of course the store supports you giving them money. But wouldn't you rather they supported you giving them LESS money?

SentinelA wrote:I'd LIKE to think that people buying up all these preorders are from countries that Hasbro is not available. I mean it's pretty stupid to be so impatient especially considering the QC problems lately. I think it's a little extreme to boycott BBTS. I just use them for stuff that aren't going to be available at Retail in America like Encore, Henkei or like City Commander Armor. Otherwise I'm content to wait for Hasbro products.

Yep. I agree.

As someone who's raised the point about stolen items before, I can tell you that that's pretty much exactly what you'll be told.

Personally, I think people are entitled to spend their money how they want. If they want to pay BBTS (your example) a larger price for whatever reason, that's up to them. But I don't see how anyone can justify buying stolen goods.