The Energon Pub

That's not possible. Unless Cybertron is just a couple thousand miles from earth. Just above our man-made satellites.

If they can afford to use that much energy to travel thousands of mile in deep space, at absolute zero temperature, then Bumblebee would not have been slightly affected by the tiny nitrogen freeze guns of the S-7 guys. He surely would use only 1/1,000,000 of the energy need to keep him alive in deep space.

It's a fresh start. As I see it you shouldn't worry about how this effects the canon story line. G1 is one giant plot whole. It never tired to be anything other than a half an hour commercial for toys. There were a lot of great science fiction ideas in there and some really great episodes...but there are so many plot holes you shouldn't worry about a canon story line.

JerryTerrifying wrote:It's a fresh start. As I see it you shouldn't worry about how this effects the canon story line. G1 is one giant plot whole. It never tired to be anything other than a half an hour commercial for toys. There were a lot of great science fiction ideas in there and some really great episodes...but there are so many plot holes you shouldn't worry about a canon story line.

What were the plot holes in G1?


Michael

Okay for example. There's multiple origin stories for the Constructocons. First they were built on Earth, later they were shown as being good Transformers gone bad. in the first few episodes all the Transformers could be seen flying, then in War Dawn it's explained that the big difference between Auto Bots and the new hot shot Decepticons is that the Decepticons can fly making a young Orion Pax envious. There's millions of them.

JerryTerrifying wrote:Okay for example. There's multiple origin stories for the Constructocons. First they were built on Earth, later they were shown as being good Transformers gone bad. in the first few episodes all the Transformers could be seen flying, then in War Dawn it's explained that the big difference between Auto Bots and the new hot shot Decepticons is that the Decepticons can fly making a young Orion Pax envious. There's millions of them.

The Construction one is eazly dismised if you dont take the words in the dialoge to literally but your right G1 was full of plot wholes.

The Movie has the opportunity to clean up the mess and straight a definitive canon.

But it didn't. Instead, it created new plot holes.

I consider the movie its own universe, not really connected to any of the others.

Own universe with own plot holes.

Auto Bot wrote:Own universe with own plot holes.

More or less than the plot holes in G1 or RiD?


Michael

dbz77 wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Own universe with own plot holes.

More or less than the plot holes in G1 or RiD?


Michael

Based on my limited scope of knowledge, i'd say just about the same.

G1 has more of the little plot holes than can be easier to explain away. Movie has those bigger plot holes than can bring down the house.

(I'm not familiar with RID)

What plot holes does the movie have?

Travelling thru space in relatively unprotected squidball protoforms. Able to survive absolute zero coldness, and extremely high reentry temperatures, but bulks at the comparatively mild coldness of the Arctics, and is weak against "high-heat" saber rounds.

Frenzy surviving as merely a head. While bonecrusher died without a head.

Frenzy completely repaired instantly upon touching (or just being near?) the Allspark. And yet, Bumblebee, holding on the the cube, was unable to heal his severed leg.

Bumblebee communicating thru light-years of distance with a borrowed Batman spotlight. Whatever they call that one.

Autobots arriving in mere minutes (or perhaps hours?) from a distant planet countless light-years away. (Earth astronomers would have discovered it if it were as near as our solar system planets. The nearest exoplanet is light-years away.)

A technologically advanced race chose to travel thru space unprotected.

Shiny metallic alien Frenzy walks from AirForce One to Barricade police car undetected by the battalions of alert security officials.

There's much more.

But just to point out a few.

Haha I actually was talking about some of those with my friend at work who has just recently seen the movie for the first time. I guess I was just having one of those moments.

Well, i guess what this Movie brings, may not be canonicity, but to establish plot holes as a glaring open issue.

Auto Bot wrote: Travelling thru space in relatively unprotected squidball protoforms. Able to survive absolute zero coldness, and extremely high reentry temperatures, but bulks at the comparatively mild coldness of the Arctics, and is weak against "high-heat" saber rounds.

For Megatron, it wasn't the cold so much as the ice crystal formation in delicate circuitry. And isn't the heat from a sabot round generated by some form of chemical reaction? In that case, I'm guessing it's more about the chemical reaction itself than the heat, which would be merely a byproduct. Perhaps the military dudes (and us nerds) are mistaking the effect (the heat) for the cause (the chemical reaction).

Auto Bot wrote:Frenzy surviving as merely a head. While bonecrusher died without a head.

I'm guessing Frenzy had more centralized systems or whatever than Bonecrusher, like some kinds of animals that I can't think of right now. And besides, Prime stabbed Bonecrusher THROUGH the head, rather than just chopping it off.

Auto Bot wrote:Frenzy completely repaired instantly upon touching (or just being near?) the Allspark. And yet, Bumblebee, holding on the the cube, was unable to heal his severed leg.

You got me on this one, but perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Frenzy actually tried doing something with the All Spark.

Auto Bot wrote:Bumblebee communicating thru light-years of distance with a borrowed Batman spotlight. Whatever they call that one.

Light-years? I thought they were hanging around in the cosmic neighborhood, perhaps in a high geosynchronous orbit over the area in question. There's a lot of debris orbiting Earth. Some of it is quite large. So who's to say a protoform or three wouldn't just be mistaken for yet another hunk of space junk?

Auto Bot wrote:Autobots arriving in mere minutes (or perhaps hours?) from a distant planet countless light-years away. (Earth astronomers would have discovered it if it were as near as our solar system planets. The nearest exoplanet is light-years away.)

See previous answer. If they're not that far off, it shouldn't take long to get there.

Auto Bot wrote:A technologically advanced race chose to travel thru space unprotected.

If you mean Megatron, that probably has something to do with the fact that he wasn't in jet form when he got frozen.

Auto Bot wrote:Shiny metallic alien Frenzy walks from AirForce One to Barricade police car undetected by the battalions of alert security officials.

Flashing lights + heavy distraction + something so dang thin it's easily overlooked = Frenzy just walking right by.

Auto Bot wrote:There's much more.

But just to point out a few.

Hey, this is kinda fun. Ooo, throw me some more!

It's dizzying to read such a long drawn out post, with several pieces of quotes in between. (I got a headached just finishing thru all that.)

So i'm just gonna chop it down into pieces. A few at a time. So i won't be thought of as spamming.

First...

Night Raid wrote:

Auto Bot wrote: Travelling thru space in relatively unprotected squidball protoforms. Able to survive absolute zero coldness, and extremely high reentry temperatures, but bulks at the comparatively mild coldness of the Arctics, and is weak against "high-heat" saber rounds.

For Megatron, it wasn't the cold so much as the ice crystal formation in delicate circuitry. And isn't the heat from a sabot round generated by some form of chemical reaction? In that case, I'm guessing it's more about the chemical reaction itself than the heat, which would be merely a byproduct. Perhaps the military dudes (and us nerds) are mistaking the effect (the heat) for the cause (the chemical reaction).

It was very clear in the movie, that the writers were implying "extreme" heat and cold as the weaknesses of the Cybertronians.

It wasn't about the ice crystals. Otherwise, Bumblebee would not have been affected by the "freeze guns" of the S7 guys. Clearly, there's no crystals forming in that one. At least not yet.

It wasn't chemical reaction either. Military ordnance more or less contain similar compounds. Less heat doesn't affect them. But high heat saber does. Besides, the severed tail was repairing itself. Which proves that it was not the chemicals. But the heat momentarily disables or weakens them. But not kill them. After the heat is taken off, the tail slowly recovers. If it were due to the chemicals, the tail would not have started to heal itself. Unless until someone washes the chemicals off.

The only problem was, the writers failed to connect this fact to the space travel issue. Maybe they don't know, or just forgot about the conditions in empty space.

Night Raid wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Frenzy surviving as merely a head. While bonecrusher died without a head.

I'm guessing Frenzy had more centralized systems or whatever than Bonecrusher, like some kinds of animals that I can't think of right now. And besides, Prime stabbed Bonecrusher THROUGH the head, rather than just chopping it off.

The survival of Cybertronians does not depend on a "centralized system" or "central processing unit", which most of us humans would think how every robot should work.

No, they're not simply robots. They're non-biological living entity. They have an equivalent of a soul, called the "spark". A Cybertronian can be deactivated or killed only if the "spark" is extinguished or taken away.

Now, the questions is, where does this "spark" really reside? Head? Chest? Why did Jazz die after being ripped in half at the waist?

And, didn't stabbed BC "thru the head". It's rather, "thru the neck". Effectively "chopping off" the head, just as Sam did to Frenzy. With the whole head intact. (As opposed to being crushed or smashed to pieces.)

Night Raid wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Frenzy completely repaired instantly upon touching (or just being near?) the Allspark. And yet, Bumblebee, holding on the the cube, was unable to heal his severed leg.

You got me on this one, but perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Frenzy actually tried doing something with the All Spark.

If the will of Frenzy caused the AllSpark to manifest its powers of healing, then why didn't Bumblebee willed it too? Surely, he counts himself as essential to the war effort. And he'd be more useful with functional legs, than laying down being a dead weight for the others.

And passing on his dangerous responsibility of protecting the cube to a puny vulnerable human?

So that will mean that Bumblebee is either dumb or lazy or arrogant?

No, I think it just means he's desperate.

And I'm sorry if my earlier post sounded insulting or anything. I didn't mean for it to come out that way.

Not at all. Not insulting or anything. My eyes are just not that good.

So here goes the rest.

Night Raid wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Bumblebee communicating thru light-years of distance with a borrowed Batman spotlight. Whatever they call that one.

Light-years? I thought they were hanging around in the cosmic neighborhood, perhaps in a high geosynchronous orbit over the area in question. There's a lot of debris orbiting Earth. Some of it is quite large. So who's to say a protoform or three wouldn't just be mistaken for yet another hunk of space junk?

Auto Bot wrote:Autobots arriving in mere minutes (or perhaps hours?) from a distant planet countless light-years away. (Earth astronomers would have discovered it if it were as near as our solar system planets. The nearest exoplanet is light-years away.)

See previous answer. If they're not that far off, it shouldn't take long to get there.

The term "cosmic neightborhood" can mean light years of distance, or at the very least, several parsecs away.

Why would they stay afloat in the coldness of space or latch on to cosmic debris that can't sustain life for decades? That will consume their limited energy supply, and expose them to dangerously low temperatures. Not to mention constant bombardment of meteors. It's either they come down on earth and assume disguises, which they didn't do, or stay in other habitable planets. Which rules out the moon. The nearest planet, with the remotest possibility of being habitable is Mars. And yet, if they came from Mars, it will take them at least months to reach Earth.

Surely, the Batman signal can't reach Mars.

Why does it rule out the moon? It's not like they need to breathe. Likewise, they don't need food or water, just Energon, and I'm sure they packed enough of that to sustain themselves while they did a quick scout for the glasses.

Auto Bot wrote:
Surely, the Batman signal can't reach Mars.

And why not????Just because it looked like nothing more then a Bat-signal does not meen that's all it was.It could have also had a sub-space signal.

Insurgent wrote:Why does it rule out the moon? It's not like they need to breathe. Likewise, they don't need food or water, just Energon, and I'm sure they packed enough of that to sustain themselves while they did a quick scout for the glasses.

Being on the moon, is just like being anywhere in empty space. Harsh environment. Lack of atmostphere. Extreme cold, the supposedly "weakness" of Cybertronians.

If the "cold" logic holds, they wouldn't last 5 seconds on the moon.

People seem to forget still that space even deep space has extreme temperature variances in either direction and NOT just cold temperatures, where do you think the heat comes from to the earth, it's not generated solely by this planet but from the sun traveling through the "cold" of space.

Our own astronauts deal with wide variances from plus 250 degrees Fahrenheit to minus 250 degrees Fahrenheit give or take in relatively low earth orbit every day.

Their protoforms would obviously have protected them from these elements in either temperature direction that's why they were all bundled up upon entry of the planets atmosphere and their impacts in the ground.

Once they chose their alternate forms perhaps it weakened some of those normally strong abilities which could then explain their weakness to cold and also since it's coming from a human military type weapon it's got to contain chemicals too which may have weakened them in addition to the cold.

Also, people seem to forget the scene where rachel taylors character was postulating that each one of their cells was a mini computer each capable of independent functions hence scorponoks ability to heal and regenerate all be it very slowly, some bots may be better able to do this then others and also have more stamina in a fight depending on their designs and also their sizes,mass etc.

Frenzy is tiny in size and mass but was also aided by the allspark, bumblebee simply lost too much mass to be instantly repaired by the allspark.

The allspark instantly created evil bots first and we don't know yet the process of how they become good so maybe we saw the "evil" allspark and there might be another one out there that is good ? why else did it not heal any of the good bots either by choice or their will to make it happen by force or other technology against the allspark ?

The Bat signal as it's being called here was only used as a dramatic visual cue for the audience and yes as previously stated it's not a stretch of the imagination that it would have contained a signal too.

We have no idea how far away optimus,ratchet,ironhide and jazz were when they received the signal but more importantly how fast can they travel in space, G1 used a "space bridge" to travel from earth to cybertron in minutes or maybe a few hours at best so just because we did not see a physical structure, ship or them being clocked on a police mans radar screen does not mean they could not travel faster then the speed of light before they reached the earth.

You're forgetting Megatron traveled thru space, and entered earth in his bare Cybertronian jet mode. Exactly the same form he transforms into when he awakens. Not in some super strong protective nutshell.

He didn't even have time to shed anything or scan for earth forms, before he froze.

Really odd. He didn't froze during the transit. And he didn't burn up as he approaches the sun.