The Energon Pub

I have to be brutally honest here. I don't like it. Maybe if they, like JelZe implied, added more detail to the character, my feelings would be a bit different. But seeing the fact they followed-up an excellent 2012 piece with this does not make me want to sign up for their membership anytime soon. So Hasbro? The money that could have gone for this and Ultra Mammoth are going towards 3-4 more pieces, as well as both the Generations 2012 book and the upcoming issue of Kerokero Ace.

As with the talks of the Beast Era being part of the Generation One continuity, that is pretty much like the role of Deputy Supreme Commander. Let me explain - In the original Takara (read: Cybertron v. Destron) continuity, the two known characters to hold this role were Ultra Magnus (Transformers: The Movie, Kiss Players) and Sky Garry (Battlestars). And the main purpose of their role was to hold the position until a proper successor comes along. Which means that since Takara had never appointed Metalhawk this position in the animated continuity of Masterforce, he was also given the position of Deputy Supreme Commander (as he was able to appoint the rank of Supreme Commander to Ginrai). So pretty much, that is what Hasbro's version of the Beast Era is - The Deputy Supreme Commander. As in overlooked, underused, and not sure it does exist by some.

Point being is that the writers did connect Beast Wars to Generation One. Atop of Optimus Prime, Megatron, and their crew being there, Rattrap did point out that Arcee was his multi-great-aunt. Plus, everything else people have already said. But for me, I would prefer following the Takara version. On account that its continuity is etched into G1 history, which includes Robot Masters. That, and Convoy ended up not becoming just a name... But a rank as well. But that is for a different topic.

I may wait until after the deadline and just roll the dice on the 2014 figure. Not impressed with this one.

But I do want to keep reading Beast Wars: Shattered Glass, so I am going to subscribe...

Sabrblade wrote:

Rated X wrote:If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai,

1. Primal was named after Prime.
2. Ginrai is not a Prime.
3. Ginrai is Japanese continuity. He doesn't exist in any American continuity. And since you so blatantly treat the G1 cartoon as Numero Uno, G1 cartoon Optimus Prime became a Powermaster at some point after "The Rebirth", further illustrating Ginrai's lack of existence there.

Correcting you right there.
1) Toy bio says that Optimus Primal is Optimus Prime. But this being the cartoon chat, you are right even though it is not confirmed if he chose the name "Optimus" or was simply given the name. Because in Japanese continuity, he was given it... As it is both a name and a rank within the Cybertron faction.

2) Technically both correct and incorrect. Incorrect because the body used was meant for Convoy and the manga hinted at the notion that he might have been the reincarnation of Convoy. Correct because Ginrai Convoy sounds like a Japanese country music singer name, not a Transformer.

3) 100% incorrect. When Hasbro established "Commemorative Series II" Powermaster Optimus Prime (with Apex Armor), they established that Ginrai was his Nebulan partner. TFwiki, however, says Hi-Q. But both Shmax and Wikipedia says Ginrai. So while it was Hi-Q in the Marvel continuity, and unknown in the post-Rebirth continuity, the name Ginrai has been established within the toy portion of the continuity.

Now that is settled... Do you think I should establish "Alternity" Dai Atlas as an "Exclusive" (because his role prior to joining the Alternity is unknown) or have him be a "G1-based Supreme Commander" (despite what I just established)? And please note that I only have three categories, and the third is "Manga."

Henry921 wrote:I may wait until after the deadline and just roll the dice on the 2014 figure. Not impressed with this one.

But I do want to keep reading Beast Wars: Shattered Glass, so I am going to subscribe...

Tell me how it turns out. Because after the lackluster feeling I got with ReGeneration One, and the fact that I picked up the other two series just out of curiosity... I figured that I will be $40 more curious before spending that and another $80 on more Transformers related stuff.

But honestly... I am expecting this to be their best story yet.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, this guy is gonna fit wonderfully in my pre-BW collection. Any opportunity to add more figures into that small part of my collection is a happy occasion for me. My favorite and first convention and set, lots of great memories. I would love more figures to add to them. I really hope to see more from next year's subscription service if not the freebie.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Correcting you right there.
1) Toy bio says that Optimus Primal is Optimus Prime. But this being the cartoon chat, you are right even though it is not confirmed if he chose the name "Optimus" or was simply given the name. Because in Japanese continuity, he was given it... As it is both a name and a rank within the Cybertron faction.

The original toy bios were written before the show was conceived and have nothing to do with the show. The show changed several things from how the toy bios were written, and thus the original toy bios are not canon to the cartoon.

Also, I wasn't talking about the Japanese continuity at all in this point, so it's needless to bring it up in this point.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:2) Technically both correct and incorrect. Incorrect because the body used was meant for Convoy and the manga hinted at the notion that he might have been the reincarnation of Convoy. Correct because Ginrai Convoy sounds like a Japanese country music singer name, not a Transformer.

Not all Primes are Convoys and not all Convoys are Primes. And Ginrai was never given the title of "Convoy" despite his being given the Supreme Commander rank. No Supreme Commander after Rodimus Convoy (aside from Convoy himself after resurrection) got the title in the G1 era.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:3) 100% incorrect. When Hasbro established "Commemorative Series II" Powermaster Optimus Prime (with Apex Armor), they established that Ginrai was his Nebulan partner. TFwiki, however, says Hi-Q. But both Shmax and Wikipedia says Ginrai. So while it was Hi-Q in the Marvel continuity, and unknown in the post-Rebirth continuity, the name Ginrai has been established within the toy portion of the continuity.

When I said "Ginrai doesn't exist", I meant specifically the human trucker-turned-Godmaster character, who has never appeared in any American fiction.

The "Ginrai" you're thinking of is the Nebulan scientist Hi-Q. The reason his Commerative Series II toy was named "Ginrai" was because, at the time, Dreamwave had given Hi-Q that name in their "More Than Meets the Eye" profile books. Hi-Q is simply named "Ginrai" in the Dreamwave continuity, but he is not the same guy as the Masterforce character and I was speaking of "Ginrai the character" not "Ginrai the name".

I get a kick out of people arguing over TF fiction. The TF "fiction" is nothing but a bunch of lazily written stories that were invented to sell toys. The fiction serves the toys, not vice versa. Your own made-up fiction is every bit as legitimate as the one presented in the comics, TV shows, movies, etc.

Sabrblade wrote:The original toy bios were written before the show was conceived and have nothing to do with the show. The show changed several things from how the toy bios were written, and thus the original toy bios are not canon to the cartoon.

However, your own words is that "Prime is named after Prime" and not "Optimus either was named after, or chosen the name of, Optimus. And that he only obtained the name "Prime" when he allowed his spark to merge with Optimus' spark." And that both the name and reason behind their chance meeting was said to be tied to the original Optimus Primal's bio. Something, while not obviously cartoon canon, does help further validate the point you were trying to make.

So yeah... You can say whatever you want, it is not the complete fact.

Sabrblade wrote:Also, I wasn't talking about the Japanese continuity at all in this point, so it's needless to bring it up in this point.

Let me make this clear - I don't care. Why? Because this subject was brought up in Robot Masters. As in further proof that you are correct, and even Takara treated both series as part of the same timeline/continuity.

Sabrblade wrote:Not all Primes are Convoys and not all Convoys are Primes. And Ginrai was never given the title of "Convoy" despite his being given the Supreme Commander rank. No Supreme Commander after Rodimus Convoy (aside from Convoy himself after resurrection) got the title in the G1 era.

Really. You mean the fact that I have a complete listing of every Supreme Commander, Convoy, and Prime on my laptop means that I do not know that? Oh wait... You made a huge error in your response! Because all knowledgeable fans know that the use of "Convoy" was not a title or rank until the beginning of Takara's Beast Era. The use of Convoy in Takara's fiction was due to the fusion of Hot Rodimus and Convoy. This was based on the fact that Hasbro fused the two characters with the use of the Matrix, hence why he went from being Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime.

Sabrblade wrote:The "Ginrai" you're thinking of is the Nebulan scientist Hi-Q. The reason his Commerative Series II toy was named "Ginrai" was because, at the time, Dreamwave had given Hi-Q that name in their "More Than Meets the Eye" profile books. Hi-Q is simply named "Ginrai" in the Dreamwave continuity, but he is not the same guy as the Masterforce character and I was speaking of "Ginrai the character" not "Ginrai the name".

And when it comes to Hasbro, IDW, and the copyright laws, you are wrong on both accounts. My point is valid, as it is based on whatever and however the hell Hasbro treats both Ginrai and Hi-Q. And seeing how they no longer seem to consider DW's work valid... You can say whatever you like, but it does not mean that it is the final say.

Now with you being corrected, I am hoping to hear from those who can stay on this topic, as I am more interested in those who like the figure... Not those who need to put their pride before the topic (ala 2012).

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:However, your own words is that "Prime is named after Prime" and not "Optimus either was named after, or chosen the name of, Optimus. And that he only obtained the name "Prime" when he allowed his spark to merge with Optimus' spark." And that both the name and reason behind their chance meeting was said to be tied to the original Optimus Primal's bio. Something, while not obviously cartoon canon, does help further validate the point you were trying to make.

So yeah... You can say whatever you want, it is not the complete fact.

I was talking about the show character and nothing else. Cartoon Optimus Primal as a character was named after G1 Optimus Prime. That's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Let me make this clear - I don't care. Why? Because this subject was brought up in Robot Masters. As in further proof that you are correct, and even Takara treated both series as part of the same timeline/continuity.

Robot Masters? Why bring that up when that wasn't related to what I was talking about?

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Really. You mean the fact that I have a complete listing of every Supreme Commander, Convoy, and Prime on my laptop means that I do not know that? Oh wait... You made a huge error in your response! Because all knowledgeable fans know that the use of "Convoy" was not a title or rank until the beginning of Takara's Beast Era. The use of Convoy in Takara's fiction was due to the fusion of Hot Rodimus and Convoy. This was based on the fact that Hasbro fused the two characters with the use of the Matrix, hence why he went from being Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime.

In the case of Ginrai, however, he wasn't a Convoy. He was a Supreme Commander, but not a Convoy. That's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And when it comes to Hasbro, IDW, and the copyright laws, you are wrong on both accounts. My point is valid, as it is based on whatever and however the hell Hasbro treats both Ginrai and Hi-Q. And seeing how they no longer seem to consider DW's work valid... You can say whatever you like, but it does not mean that it is the final say.

The Dreamwave stuff still existed. It's not like it was just erased from reality. IDW even reprinted the "More Than Meets the Eye" books in trade form, in which Hi-Q is named Ginrai and is a different guy from the Ginrai I was talking about.

In other words, there are TWO guys named "Ginrai" in the multiverse. One's a Godmaster (the guy I was taling about), and the other's a version of Hi-Q. The former is the one who doesn't exist in American fiction, and that's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Now with you being corrected, I am hoping to hear from those who can stay on this topic, as I am more interested in those who like the figure... Not those who need to put their pride before the topic (ala 2012).

Oh right, yeah, there's Depth Charge.

Depth Charge... GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME! *grabby hands* Oh yeah, I want it!

Three things, Sabr.

1) I was giving you a hard time. However, you do need to tone down the "human encyclopedia" aspect as it makes you come off as Longrack. As you put too much emphasis on what you feel is the valid truth. Tone it down, and listen to others. Because in the end, you can either be the "helpful guy to new fans" or the "prideful member who can go too far." Past experience, dude. So just ease up and enjoy what others tell you.

2) Remember that dismissing people will have them dismiss you. We admire your passion for the franchise, but you need to allow yourself to be educated on the things others know. Because you may actually learn something you did not realize was there until you hear it from another. (Trust me, this is how I became a published writer.)

3) Eat a Snickers. You aren't you when you are hungry, and you come off as the type of person who should write down your own insight in either a blog or in some other style. I used to do it last year until things got messy here. But I am going back to doing that in hopes of getting some work within the franchise with TOMY.

Oh... And while you are enjoying the chance to get Depthcharge, feel free to realize that I was giving you a hard time... And that I came to this site for fun, not stress. That, and I am passing this piece because I think I know what may be in store for Generations 2013, and hope for an ALL SPARK toyline.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:1) I was giving you a hard time. However, you do need to tone down the "human encyclopedia" aspect as it makes you come off as Longrack. As you put too much emphasis on what you feel is the valid truth. Tone it down, and listen to others. Because in the end, you can either be the "helpful guy to new fans" or the "prideful member who can go too far." Past experience, dude. So just ease up and enjoy what others tell you.

2) Remember that dismissing people will have them dismiss you. We admire your passion for the franchise, but you need to allow yourself to be educated on the things others know. Because you may actually learn something you did not realize was there until you hear it from another. (Trust me, this is how I became a published writer.)

3) Eat a Snickers. You aren't you when you are hungry, and you come off as the type of person who should write down your own insight in either a blog or in some other style. I used to do it last year until things got messy here. But I am going back to doing that in hopes of getting some work within the franchise with TOMY.

I'd just like to say one thing here.

Pot .. kettle .. black.

Oh... And while you are enjoying the chance to get Depthcharge, feel free to realize that I was giving you a hard time... And that I came to this site for fun, not stress. That, and I am passing this piece because I think I know what may be in store for Generations 2013, and hope for an ALL SPARK toyline.

Oh hey, thanks for mentioning Depthcharge. Great way to get the topic back on track.
I'll also let the whole "giving Sabreblade a hard time" being taken as baiting slide ... this time.

Burn wrote:I'd just like to say one thing here.

Pot .. kettle .. black.

Burn? Seeing how the follow-up response does not have me think you said that as a compliment, so let me point out that despite my past issues with him and one other dragging me into arguments that have disrupted my life (and the last one having you ignore my pleas not to go through it again)... I see Sabrblade having the same publication-enriched future that I had. The only difference being that if he sought it out, and eased up on the "human encyclopedia" aspect in favor of just knowing his potential friends... He can become the next Hydra.

So let me say this as both a former moderator and as a person who uses Buddhism as a means to dispel his PTSD: "A man who favors authority over friendship, is a man who dispels the chance to be their best."

As in the fact that when I told you that I am cooperative because of my own knowledge as a moderator, I meant it as a sign of friendship... Not to be dismissed because you don't have to. And I bet you that if you did, we would be talking as friends and everybody else here would follow your lead. In other words: You realize that I am bad at communication at times, relax around me, and trust me as both a friend and as a member. In return, you would find my promise of being easy to cooperate is factual, be there when you need my help, and become a better person because others followed started giving me excuses to talk to them as friends... And not tease Sabr because I see him as an ally (and failed because he too has no reason to know me better).

You guys can PM me if you want to know the real me. Because this is the last response here (period) as I have to email somebody I have not talked to ever since my minor accident. That, and I need to find that one link for Sabr, and finding something that long ago is not easy. And other stuff that none of you would be interested in. So...

Apparently you didn't quite understand me when I thanked you for getting the topic back on track.

That was a subtle way of saying to keep it on topic...

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:I see Sabrblade having the same publication-enriched future that I had. The only difference being that if he sought it out, and eased up on the "human encyclopedia" aspect in favor of just knowing his potential friends... He can become the next Hydra.

And lead us all into a bright, golden future in SPAAAACE. Could he obtain the matrix, because supreme commander, a Prime and a Convoy? Sabrebladimus Prime? If only! A dream is born!

Seriously,that's the best part of the best rant I've read in ages.

Also, Depth Charge isn't my cup of tea. Colors aside... He lacks bulk.

Poor mould choice for him imho. The robot mode has been made to work, but they really needed a mould which had an alt mode which either worked as a sub or as a spacecraft. This doesn't really work as either.

I'd really really really appreciate if we could get this topic back on topic about Depthcharge. I'm not going to take kindly to offtopic conversation - it scares away other members from posting.

Oy, I'm seriously considering taking what was given as a joke but is being taken the wrong way out of my sig.

Burn wrote:I'd just like to say one thing here.

Pot .. kettle .. black.

RhA wrote:Sabrebladimus Prime?

Ew.

Bowspearer wrote:Poor mould choice for him imho. The robot mode has been made to work, but they really needed a mould which had an alt mode which either worked as a sub or as a spacecraft. This doesn't really work as either.

You kidding? This mold is perfect for him. That headsculpt just works so well for him, the trident calls back to his original toy's sword/javelin tail weapon, and the overall body shape matches the shape of Depth Charge's pre-Earth body.

Not to mention that Depth Charge's pre-Earth model also showed up again in Beast Machines, recycled for someone on Botanica's ship and gave us a good look at its body build, which the Terradive mold meshes pretty well with (barring some minor differences like the wings and such).



As for the altmode difference, not sure why he'd need a sub altmode when Beast Machines showed no oceans on Cybertron. Or a spacecraft mode considering that he was an Imperial Peace Marshal and likely didn't leave the sector he protected--Colony Omicron--that much. Recall how, after his Transmetalization and altmode-scanning on Earth, Depth Charge was an aquatic warrior with an aerial-based feature. In this case, the Terradive mold portrays an aerial warrior with an aquatic-based feature. It's like a strange-yet-awesome case of complementary opposites that just makes this figure work.