The Energon Pub

News Credits: 1 · by **Jeep?** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:55 am

Timeouts, anyone? The arena's not as abusable as tag missions, you know.

by **Malicron** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:08 am

Jeep! wrote:Timeouts, anyone? The arena's not as abusable as tag missions, you know.

Actually, I don't. I've never tried either.

by **Bikkusu** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:46 am

Whisper wrote:Unfortunately this idea would be open to abuse. Dual account using players can configure both their teams in such a way that one team will merely feed the other to increase their xp levels...

Back with the idea that arena bouts would be for marvel and bragging rights that, "My bot can beat your bot" no XP should be awarded for them.

Arena fights should not be about experience, the missions should.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:12 pm

That was the basis of the Challenge Arena.

You could fight anyone you wanted to (even pit your own bots against each other) with the only reward being bragging rights. No xp, no energon.

HOWEVER, people would be able to see what fights are under way or about to start and be able to bet on them, with the necessary limits in place to prevent abuse.

News Credits: 6 · by **City Commander** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:20 pm

^ I wish it was still gonna be coded and used :-(

I vastly prefer the idea of the challenge pit to the arena.

by **Animus** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:55 pm

The arena as it stands is pointless. It serves to take away slots from missions and in some cases those slots need to be filled. The Arena is the coward's way out, as why would someone want to take a chance on getting hardly any xp when they can dump their players in the arena and hide?

Also I find it lulzy that the percentage for this vote doesn't add up to 100%.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:32 pm

Coward's way? No. The arena more often than not generates more xp than missions, (more so if you're a 'Con due to lack of opposition in missions).

Not only that it's quicker. You activate, head to the arena, deploy all. Missions require activation and sometimes if things are quiet you might have to reload the missions page a few times just to generate new missions for you to join. And some people may be really pressed for time.

by **Bun-Bun** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:46 am

Actually (unless things have changed recently) the arena is the 'cowards' way out in that you don't need Courage.

I tested it a while back, and as long as you have at least 7 in Speed and maybe 3 in Courage you can make a good living in the arena since you don't have to drop alot of XP into Courage (like you need to do to be an effective mission player) & you can use it to bulk up your mech in other ways.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:26 am

Bun-Bun wrote:Actually (unless things have changed recently) the arena is the 'cowards' way out in that you don't need Courage.

Its worse than that. Up until L4 you can almost always predict the outcome of an arena match simply by checking who has the highest strength.

9 time's out of 10 its spot on too.

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:56 am

Burn wrote:Coward's way? No. The arena more often than not generates more xp than missions, (more so if you're a 'Con due to lack of opposition in missions).

It does? I'd disagree wholesale with that statment for any level bellow lvl 8. And as 2 of my 3 lvl 8s are medics, I'd disagree with that statment for lvl 8 in my situation (Dreadspawn normally does better in missions too come to think of it).

I cant comment for lvls 9-11 becuase I have no charecters there, but in the entire time I have palyed this game, at every level I have been at, the missions payout much better xp than the arenas 9 times out of 10.

That said, I have always specilised in 'mission builds'.

News Credits: 6 · by **Metroplex79** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:02 pm

Note: I did not read the past 9 pages, so I apologize for anything that was suggested already or was opposed against.

I voted to get rid of it, but if we are going to keep it, I would like to see this as a compromise.

-keep the arena for Level 1 and 2 for free (as it is now)
-"buy" entry fee per arena battle when you're Level 7 and up. The higher the level, the higher the price.
-you don't earn Energon, and you earn HALF of your normal xp for that level, so a Level 8 would earn Level 4 xp for a win
-pay a small fee for auto-CR, no charge for manual-CR
-DEBATABLE=remove tactics and weapons, so it's hand-to-hand

I guess what I'm trying to do is accommodate both sides.
-keep the arena for those who really need it (low levels)
-arena to be used by higher levels for bragging rights only (as of now, high levels are scarce, so it's difficult to fill a mission, even during the latest tourney)
-if xp is an issue, go into missions
-and you can't go down to Level 2 to bully as one of OS's last acts of being the programmer, was put xp caps per level (I'm assuming it's still on)

Note: I rarely used the Arena since the time my troops hit Level 4. But I've had to put Treadware and Phantomstrike in the Arena recently because those Level 8-11 missions don't pop up frequently.

The Sword · by **Colonel Brawl** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:32 am

Burn wrote:Coward's way? No. The arena more often than not generates more xp than missions, (more so if you're a 'Con due to lack of opposition in missions).

The main reason why there is no opposition is the fact that almost all of the oppostion is hiding in the arena.

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:33 am

Colonel Brawl wrote:
Burn wrote:Coward's way? No. The arena more often than not generates more xp than missions, (more so if you're a 'Con due to lack of opposition in missions).

The main reason why there is no opposition is the fact that almost all of the oppostion is hiding in the arena.

QFT.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:31 am

Just switch off the xp gain from it so those that need the energon can still earn it.

Surely that would solve the problem, Especially as (last we heard) Mkall isnt that far from being able to add to the furry factions's now...

News Credits: 2 · by **-Soundwave-** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:48 am

Psychout wrote:Just switch off the xp gain from it so those that need the energon can still earn it.

Surely that would solve the problem, Especially as (last we heard) Mkall isnt that far from being able to add to the furry factions's now...

My thoughts exactly.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:09 pm

Colonel Brawl wrote:
Burn wrote:Coward's way? No. The arena more often than not generates more xp than missions, (more so if you're a 'Con due to lack of opposition in missions).

The main reason why there is no opposition is the fact that almost all of the oppostion is hiding in the arena.

blah blah blah. This is hear all the time.

Who do you think they're fighting in the arena? Does anyone stop and consider that or are people just blindly going on their anti-arena rampages?

Seriously, if people are fighting in the arena and you turn it off, you're going to get the same number into missions and voila, lack of opposition goes to being outnumbered.

You will NOT fix the problem with missions simply by turning the arena off. There are others things to be considered as well.

Try making missions more attractive first before denying variety to some of the games players. Just because some people don't use the arena doesn't mean it's a problem.

News Credits: 2 · by **-Soundwave-** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:13 pm

I know that playing missions isn't always available to people using cell phones. taking the arena away basically can cut them off. While I don't care for the arena, it isn't necessarily right to cut those that use it for this reason or others off.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:16 pm

Sustain wrote:I know that playing missions isn't always available to people using cell phones. taking the arena away basically can cut them off. While I don't care for the arena, it isn't necessarily right to cut those that use it for this reason or others off.

Exactly.

Until there can be programming changes done to make the arena into the challenge arena or even a change to mission payouts it's best for it to stay as it's a very viable option for some players.

News Credits: 1 · by **Jeep?** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:06 pm

Burn wrote:Who do you think they're fighting in the arena? Does anyone stop and consider that or are people just blindly going on their anti-arena rampages?

Not always anyone. Any time you open up the arena and your characters are able to "fight!" right away, it's because some sap has aready committed to waiting on someone else showing up; whilst the "wait" option simply means you get to be the sap doing the waiting. It's not hard to max out a TWO HOUR waiting time, or sometimes you'll just about catch someone in that massive window so as to make the fight actually happen. And if it doesn't, the xp and energon payments are the same as AS' usefulness (non-existant). Max out the time on an empty mission and you still earn something.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:40 am

I'll admit, I don't know what it's like from levels 0-5, but more often than not I can active any character from level 6-11, head the arena, and there's normally someone waiting for a fight.

And if there's not, I can dump a bot in to wait, within a few minutes someone comes along to join in the fun.

So looking at things from a 6-11 perspective, I fail to see the benefit of forcing people from the arena into missions citing the "it'll solve the outnumbering problem" because it won't.

A quick zip through the high scores (no beast factions. no offense intended to them but with the lack of missions and their low numbers they don't really need to come into this) ...

A1 - 1168
A2 - 923
A3 - 578
A4 - 285
A5 - 145
A6 - 114
A7 - 67
A8 - 37
A9 - 27
A10 - 16
A11 - 2

D1 - 891
D2 - 803
D3 - 439
D4 - 222
D5 - 159
D6 - 116
D7 - 108
D8 - 52
D9 - 17
D10 - 9
D11 - 9

To me things look pretty balanced. So you take whoever's fighting in the arena and move them to the missions, what is it going to achieve exactly?

Is the Arena causing the game to glitch? No. The Arena is offering variety and also a quick deployment option for those who may not have time. And some people may like the one on one competition.

Like i've said, get the mission brackets sorted, get more missions for the Beast factions, make the payouts for missions more attractive than the Arena and see if that entices more people into it. But don't shut it down just because some people don't see a point in it.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:04 am

Burn wrote:To me things look pretty balanced. So you take whoever's fighting in the arena and move them to the missions, what is it going to achieve exactly?

Maintaining that balance?

As far as I can tell from the L4-7 area, the problem the higher levels (not necessarily directed at you Burn) have is that at L10&11 the xp rewards arent so good, they dont have an L12+ to aim at for a 'big score' and so they naturally prefer to fight warriors of their level to keep scores up, as fighting L-8 will give's a crappy score in comparison.

Its an inherent problem in the way the game is created and as more commanders hit the L11 mark it will become less and less attractive to fight against the lower levels.

So why not (coding accomodating) consider giving the 10/11's a minimun cap on their scores so they always score at L10/11 rates regardless of who they are shooting at? Then they wont have to go to the arena for a good score and can use the missions without losing out on xp?

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:54 am

Psychout wrote:So why not (coding accomodating) consider giving the 10/11's a minimun cap on their scores so they always score at L10/11 rates regardless of who they are shooting at? Then they wont have to go to the arena for a good score and can use the missions without losing out on xp?

The idea has merit, but then you'll have people saying "well why can't level 9 have that sort of thing? Or level 8? Or why not have a minimum cap for all?" (and you know they will say it)

At this stage I can't see why people are so hell bent on getting rid of the arena. Years ago I was shouted at and abused because I was allegedly "trying to tell people how to play the game and that I should stfu and let people play the game how they want".

Well why not let people play the game how they want? If they want to use the arena let them. The game functions perfectly fine with it.

We need to concentrate on getting the missions sorted out instead of the mess we have now. Let's concentrate on fixing the missions first before trying to force people into them.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:10 am

Burn wrote:
Psychout wrote:So why not (coding accomodating) consider giving the 10/11's a minimun cap on their scores so they always score at L10/11 rates regardless of who they are shooting at? Then they wont have to go to the arena for a good score and can use the missions without losing out on xp?

The idea has merit, but then you'll have people saying "well why can't level 9 have that sort of thing? Or level 8? Or why not have a minimum cap for all?" (and you know they will say it)

Screw 'em. L9 still has L10 & 11 to aim at for a pig payout, so still has the chance of the big scores that the 10's and 11's dont. Besides L10 is a huge achievement.

As for 'telling people how to play the game' and 'hell bent on removal of the arena'; individual players (again, not directed towards you specifically Burn) dont generally think about the long term, they only think about the immediate affects stuff has on them.

The writers of a game such as this need to learn to ignore the crap out of the players and make a complete game that caters for all angles and sides regardless of the vocal majority, which in the long term will benefit us gobby posters. Keeping the arena as it is, IMO, is counter-productive as it splits the players of the game with no benefit to either side. Dropping the arena xp gain, and eventually developing a challenge arena, will still give the arena a use and will add to the rest of the game instead of detracting from it.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:38 am

Psychout wrote:Keeping the arena as it is, IMO, is counter-productive as it splits the players of the game with no benefit to either side. Dropping the arena xp gain, and eventually developing a challenge arena, will still give the arena a use and will add to the rest of the game instead of detracting from it.

Challenge Arena aside (as I don't consider it an option at this stage), a lot of people want variety in the game.

Make the arena unviable or remove it entirely and you kill off variety and leave people with no choice but to participate in missions.

Yet it was something I didn't agree with V2 (oh wait, apparently I never agreed with anything planned for it. How could I forget that!). We were to get "The Pit", the "Battle for Cybertron", but we were to also retain normal missions. What purpose would that have served?

To me, it's simple. Missions for the big massive brawls and the arena for nice one on ones. Don't need more, don't need less.

Just need mission brackets sorted out and let the Beast factions have some decent missions.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:19 am

Burn wrote:a lot of people want variety in the game.

Problem is, I fail to understand how the arena is 'variety'.

It may have a different name and have a different link, but you activate, arm and deploy your minion in exactly the same way as the misisons, payouts are calculated in exactly the same way and any alts and tactics used are all exactly the same.
Even the score page at the end is almost identical.

If Mkall and Caelus added in one on one missions into the mix, how would they be any different to the arena? At least then you could pick your opponent.

The only 'variety' I can see is that you can be 100% certain you will only face 1 opponent at a time as opposed to the missions where its currently only a 50/50 chance.

Dont get me wrong, im not pissing on any bonfires here, nor do I expect to be listened to, I just cannot comprehend why the arena should be regarded important to this game at any level as it currently stands.