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[AllNewSuperRobot]

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Seven was never a favourite of mine. But I'm told he is another one that benefitted greatly from Big Finish.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

[AllNewSuperRobot]

[JazZeke]

I have to admit, seeing Donna be Donna again got me emotional.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Also, officially confirmed that NPH is the Celestial Toymaker. Neat to use a character that hasn't been onscreen since the 60's.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

[Burn]

It's such a shame this has been over-shadowed by RTD's comments about this is how Davros will be going forward because "Davros being in a wheelchair makes people think all disabled people are evil".

[AllNewSuperRobot]

There were some eyerolling, heavy handed moments and exchanges. But overall as a 10th 14th Doctor episode, it was fine. Elevated by the titular character and a dazzling aesthetic reveal. 7/10

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I've never actually seen this serial before. I don't dislike the 1st Doctor. But he isn't one of my favourites. His successor being my number one from the Classic era, but I digress.

So what impression did I get from watching this version of the serial (available on iPlayer/BBC Four, at time of writing)? It's awful.

The colourisation looks strange. The added musical score is offputting and the editing is atrocious. A friend of mine, as big a Dalek fan as you can get, was similarly unimpressed. I doubt "Dalekmania" would have quite taken off with this version either. My friend did insist I watch the original version for a more accurate appraisal. But.. Yikes.

[ZeroWolf]

Can't say I'm in a rush to watch that version, I think some things are better in original black and white.

Now, I've finally had time to watch the Star-Beast. I quite enjoyed it, it was a fun adaption of a comic character that I never thought was going to make it into a TV series. My only (minor) complaint would have been that I never bought the idea about Rose's age. They said she was 15 but the actress didn't look it (of course she wouldn't, she was 20!) But it's also not as bad as Grease casting a 30 Yr old Oliva Newton Jon as a teenager, soo, yeah a minor niggle.

Next week's episode should be interesting, wondering how accurate the cast list I've seen is

[AllNewSuperRobot]

My only (minor) complaint would have been that I never bought the idea about Rose's age. They said she was 15 but the actress didn't look it (of course she wouldn't, she was 20!) But it's also not as bad as Grease casting a 30 Yr old Oliva Newton Jon as a teenager, soo, yeah a minor niggle.

I thought that too. When Donna's mother mentions this all happened 15 years ago. It raised an eyebrow when looking at Rose.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

My arms are too long...

Without spoilers, this felt like a lower stakes rehash of one of the very best 10th Doctor stories. I don't really know what warranted the existence of this special, to be honest. It was a typical episode, aside from referencing the Flux and TC. Although the script does give the Doctor some emotional fallout to the events of the former. Which was largely missing from the serial itself.
Ultimately middling for me. 5/10

[JazZeke]

My arms are too long...

Without spoilers, this felt like a lower stakes rehash of one of the very best 10th Doctor stories. I don't really know what warranted the existence of this special, to be honest. It was a typical episode, aside from referencing the Flux and TC. Although the script does give the Doctor some emotional fallout to the events of the former. Which was largely missing from the serial itself.
Ultimately middling for me. 5/10

Yeah, for an anniversary special, I was hoping for the next "Midnight" or "Heaven Sent" or "Scherzo." "Wild Blue Yonder" didn't quite go that far. I think a scene where the Doctor and Donna actually discussed the Doctor's recent traumas (instead of the usual companion asking, Doctor gives flippant answer dynamic) would have really elevated the episode.

I also didn't like how the Doctor realized he got the wrong Donna because of a minor physical difference and not because of their personality.

It was a good solid story. Just not anything special.

[ZeroWolf]

My arms are too long...

Without spoilers, this felt like a lower stakes rehash of one of the very best 10th Doctor stories. I don't really know what warranted the existence of this special, to be honest. It was a typical episode, aside from referencing the Flux and TC. Although the script does give the Doctor some emotional fallout to the events of the former. Which was largely missing from the serial itself.
Ultimately middling for me. 5/10

Yeah, for an anniversary special, I was hoping for the next "Midnight" or "Heaven Sent" or "Scherzo." "Wild Blue Yonder" didn't quite go that far. I think a scene where the Doctor and Donna actually discussed the Doctor's recent traumas (instead of the usual companion asking, Doctor gives flippant answer dynamic) would have really elevated the episode.

I also didn't like how the Doctor realized he got the wrong Donna because of a minor physical difference and not because of their personality.

It was a good solid story. Just not anything special.

I found it...very much a middle of the road story. Regarding the spoiler part obviously, the in story expectation was that it had already copied her personality perfectly so it was only that minute detail that gave the game up. I wouldnt mind as my h if it was something that was foreshadowed.

Also...did the intro bit have anything to do with anything apart from trying to upset the daily mail crowd? Was there a joke I missed that built on it. Or is it going to play into next week's episode?

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Also...did the intro bit have anything to do with anything apart from trying to upset the daily mail crowd?

RTD is a fan of doing that. Which I think was the point. A little throwaway "Mavity" line later in the episode doesn't really seem enough to justify the sequence.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Neil Patrick Harris as the Celestial Toymaker was great. Yet it's been a long time since I've been so indecisive about whether I actually liked what I just watched?

I need to process/10

[ZeroWolf]

Neil Patrick Harris as the Celestial Toymaker was great. Yet it's been a long time since I've been so indecisive about whether I actually liked what I just watched?

I need to process/10

I haven't even seen it, I'll post my thoughts tomorrow though what you've said isn't making me hopeful.

Speaking of the toy maker, I was happy to see that would be the next animated Who restoration. Wonder if that's more of the Mouse money at play (not that I believe the projects ever had a big budget in the first place)

[JazZeke]

Neil Patrick Harris as the Celestial Toymaker was great. Yet it's been a long time since I've been so indecisive about whether I actually liked what I just watched?

I need to process/10

"Bigeneration"?

"BI

F***ING

GENERATION"?!

[AllNewSuperRobot]

That was the moment that led to my indecision...

[Burn]

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed all three 60th anniversary specials.

RTD has done a good job of wrapping up "Nu Who" and has set the stage for RTD2 Series 1.

I'm okay with the bi-generation, though frankly, given the whole basis of DW is time travel, there's already multiple Doctors out there flying around, possibly at the same time, so all this does is give us a second concurrent Doctor that instead of flying around and getting into adventures, has stepped back and taken on retirement.

I'm sure at some point he'll end up as a Curator...

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I'm sure at some point he'll end up as a Curator...

Or the Valeyard. Given how emotionally unstable 14 has proven at times.


Overall, with time to process my thoughts. I liked The Giggle. The weak link of these specials was definitely Wild Blue Yonder. It didn't feel like an anniversary special, as opposed to just a run of the mill episode. The Star Beast paid homage to Doctor Who's comic book history. The Giggle, brought back a villain who technically hasn't been seen onscreen since 1966. Wild Blue Yonder was just another version of Midnight??? It seems even more unnecessary in hindsight now.

Lastly, what was the deal with the UNIT robot? It looked like something from Power Rangers. As if the discount Avengers Tower wasn't bad enough. I thought it was a nod to Kamelion at first. But not even that.

[JazZeke]

I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with this "bigeneration" thing.

I really don't like the idea of there being two of the Doctor "at the same time." Now the Doctor has essentially "bifurcated." Which makes both real, and neither real...

Okay so I'm reminded of what turned me off of the Dune books. The first book set some very hard rules about power levels and how the psuedo-science bullshit worked. It helped with the stakes of the story. Subsequent sequels started throwing out the rules more and more, like Herbert forgot his own writing. Alia suddenly didn't have the memories of all the witches in a progression before her as the first book stated, but instead her ancestral memories. Then she became her evil grandfather? He couldn't make up his mind if a ghola was a clone or the resurrection of the original. I know it's ALL made-up bullshit, but when you start ignoring previously established rules and just doing whatever you want, it makes the stakes feel less concrete. And yes I know Doctor Who is KING OF THE HILL when it comes to sci fi deus ex machina bullshit. But if literally anything can happen to get the Doctor out of their current scrape, then I have a hard time caring about any of it.

Between this, and the Flux, and the Timeless Child... I feel like the show has been f***ing up too much of its own lore too fast these past few years.

A Doctor dies? No problem, we've got a spare waiting in the wings now!

Although.. the line "I'm fine because you fix yourself. We're doing rehab out of order." I wonder if the timelines are out of sync and 14 will one day regenerate into 15 "for real." Like the 15 we saw was pulled from the future like "the watcher" in the 4th Doctor's regeneration to Five? Or if, at the end of their lifespans, they'll have to merge back together to regenerate. That would be an interesting idea. I just wish RTD had explained his bullshit more clearly.

Not counting clones or robot doubles or dimensional duplicates, the Doctor should remain a singular entity. There needs to only be one at a time. Any more and I feel like it waters the character down.

[Burn]

I'm sure at some point he'll end up as a Curator...

Or the Valeyard. Given how emotionally unstable 14 has proven at times.

The Valeyard thing is a **** that really needs to be addressed and cleaned up. Given that the "trial" was mentioned in The Giggle, maybe something will come of it.

From memory, and it's been a while since I've watched it, The Valeyard wanted The Doctor's remaining regenerations for himself as he was on his last one. Timeless Child pretty much **** that over, so maybe the bi-generation thing has given 14 a limited number of regenerations ... who knows ... it needs cleaning up.

Although.. the line "I'm fine because you fix yourself. We're doing rehab out of order." I wonder if the timelines are out of sync and 14 will one day regenerate into 15 "for real." Like the 15 we saw was pulled from the future like "the watcher" in the 4th Doctor's regeneration to Five?

I have seen others say something similar, and I think it's just people's way of trying to add more depth to something that RTD plucked from his bottom.

Or if, at the end of their lifespans, they'll have to merge back together to regenerate. That would be an interesting idea. I just wish RTD had explained his bullshit more clearly.

I too figured this is something that may happen down the track, if not by RTD but another show runner who wants to clean things up.

Not counting clones or robot doubles or dimensional duplicates, the Doctor should remain a singular entity. There needs to only be one at a time. Any more and I feel like it waters the character down.

But see, wibbly wobbly timey wimey, there already is more than one Doctor running around.

[ZeroWolf]

I need to find the comment again but I'm sure i saw something by RTD that it was more than just 14 & 15 that this happened with.

Wait, found it:

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-bigeneration-doctorverse-newsupdate/

So RTD has just made more explicit what was already heavily implied anyway (as Burn said, multiple doctors running around, like the Day of the Doctor which had 13 doctors all around Galifrey). However...I'm still wondering why RTD creatively took this step? He calls it a doctor verse now but then what was it before when we had the likes of The Sarah Jane Smith Adventures and Torchwood running side by side with Doctor Who.