The Energon Pub

[Sowndwave76]

My next thought is with no real extras, no retooling, etc., this set shouldn’t be more than $100.

How do you get that from 3 deluxes and a voyager at current prices? The Bee/Jazz/Wheeljack set is at $100 on its own at BBTS and is less 1 deluxe than this. Just a bit over $100, like $110-$120 would be around I would expect.

Partly because of what I said about no extras. Then also, these molds have been used and used and used and used and used and used… Unlike the 3 pack you mentioned.
Dropping the price essentially $10 isn’t exactly ridiculous.

[-Kanrabat-]

My next thought is with no real extras, no retooling, etc., this set shouldn’t be more than $100.

How do you get that from 3 deluxes and a voyager at current prices? The Bee/Jazz/Wheeljack set is at $100 on its own at BBTS and is less 1 deluxe than this. Just a bit over $100, like $110-$120 would be around I would expect.

Partly because of what I said about no extras. Then also, these molds have been used and used and used and used and used and used… Unlike the 3 pack you mentioned.
Dropping the price essentially $10 isn’t exactly ridiculous.

If you mean some Amazon sale and whatnot, it is a possibility that they will "drop the price."

But in reality, the "molds have been used over and over" is NEVER an excuse. Just look at the price of every single repaints and reissues that have ever been released. Look at their prices. No repaints nor reissues were priced cheaper than the original. Ever. In fact, often, the new edition is MORE expensive.

All of this not counting tariffs and such, if they apply.

[Sowndwave76]

My next thought is with no real extras, no retooling, etc., this set shouldn’t be more than $100.

How do you get that from 3 deluxes and a voyager at current prices? The Bee/Jazz/Wheeljack set is at $100 on its own at BBTS and is less 1 deluxe than this. Just a bit over $100, like $110-$120 would be around I would expect.

Partly because of what I said about no extras. Then also, these molds have been used and used and used and used and used and used… Unlike the 3 pack you mentioned.
Dropping the price essentially $10 isn’t exactly ridiculous.

If you mean some Amazon sale and whatnot, it is a possibility that they will "drop the price."

But in reality, the "molds have been used over and over" is NEVER an excuse. Just look at the price of every single repaints and reissues that have ever been released. Look at their prices. No repaints nor reissues were priced cheaper than the original. Ever. In fact, often, the new edition is MORE expensive.

All of this not counting tariffs and such, if they apply.

No, I wasn’t including tariffs. I’m talking about a realistic cost based on what’s included in the set.
If my thought is so ridiculous, explain to me how the Autobots Stand United 5-pack was $110 for 5 deluxe figures, and the Triple Takeover set was $120 for 2 leader class figures and 1 voyager…

So it’s not “an excuse”….

This new D.C. set is 3 deluxes and 1 voyager. Thinking it could be $90-$100 is very realistic. And while there are some, inlcuding me, that are really excited about this improved Reflector, I’m reasonable enough to know that this set doesn’t exactly include the most popular Decepticons, or TF characters in general. And yeah, some people passed on and/or missed ER Thundercracker…. But that’s nowhere near the same situation as Velocitron Cosmos. Quite a lot of people got that ER seeker 2-pk.
Again, not including the potential tariffs, this D.C. set isn’t going to be more expensive than those others, relatively speaking. Why would it be? The Kremzeek figure?? Pshhhh.

[-Kanrabat-]

At the very bare minimum, it should cost the price of the "G1" 3-pack plus a voyager. But I bet there will be the "Takara surcharge" added on top.

[TF-fan kev777]

The set is up on Pulse for $115, so looks like my guessed range of $110-$120 was pretty accurate.

[Counterpunch]

I don't like the price all that much, but the figures look pretty sweet.

[Till-all-R1]

Yeah neat looking but to pricey for me as I already Have Thundercracker.

When I first heard about this my interest was piqued because I only ever was able to find one Seige Refraktor back in 2020. But honestly I think the Reconnaissance 3-pk will suffice, I kind of prefer the individual looks as opposed to the G1 toon all being the same. While I am mainly a G1 fan I don't mind variations like that.

[Emerje]

I've merged the formerly three Dramatic Capture topics into one topic now to help streamline things and make stuff easier to find instead of searching through other catch-all threads or buried in whatever the current mainline topic is.

Emerje

[Sowndwave76]

The set is up on Pulse for $115, so looks like my guessed range of $110-$120 was pretty accurate.

So you guessed that this set would be more expensive than it should be... Way to go.

I'll echo others' comments; this is over-priced. The norm has been that any multi-pack of repaints (and even slight retools) are released at a cost less than the total of the individual figures.
Even the Preceptor, Ramhorn & Ratbat set prove this... If a Core figure is $12 and a deluxe is $26, that set could have been $49.99, especially since Perceptor has a little retooling, no clear plastic, Ramhorn is a new mold, and neither him nor Ratbat may ever get an individual release. So $50 would be a fair price. Yet the cost is $34.99. With the RedCard it cost me $36.14 including taxes.

The Target exclusive 4-pk price went up $10 and is still $20 less than the total of the included individual figures.

[Emerje]

That's only true for Hasbro's multipacks, you can't really hold that to multipacks they import from Takara Tomy. We're probably lucky that it's priced exactly at what the individual figures would cost rather than "taxing" us much higher for it simply being an import. If only their other imports had more competitive pricing.

Emerje

[Sowndwave76]

That's only true for Hasbro's multipacks, you can't really hold that to multipacks they import from Takara Tomy. We're probably lucky that it's priced exactly at what the individual figures would cost rather than "taxing" us much higher for it simply being an import. If only their other imports had more competitive pricing.

Emerje

I skipped the other D.C. sets, but I initially preordered (later canceled) the Nemesis Bridge set and remember that being $110... Either way, I know what I paid for the Triple Takeover set-- $119.99 before tax. Sold separately, two leader class ($110) + one voyager ($35) total $145 (before tax).
So maybe this hasn't happened with the other sets, but it has happened with half of them up until this Part 1 set.

Really the point is a release like this should be cheaper than what the initial, individual figures had cost, even with a potentially increased amount of paint apps. When these figures are the exact same, previously released molds, no company should be charging the same price(s) as if what's included are new releases requiring new engineering, molds, etc.
And I get it, profits rule all...
But it's extremely telling that Hastak can sell the new Perceptor set for $35... Those figures separately would cost around $50. Let's not give them credit or fool ourselves that we're being given something (or anything) for free.
Technically that set is $15 cheaper than it could be, AND Hastak is still making substantial profit off of each and every one... Otherwise the set either wouldn't exist because it wouldn't make sense from a business aspect, or it would just flat-out cost more.

[TF-fan kev777]

Something to keep in mind about Takara products and pricing, these are priced in JPY and then converted to USD for retailers selling in that currency. The currency exchange rate when the pre-orders are released will have an affect on the US or Hasbro price. So something appearing to be a discount for a multipack may be in part a result of a favorable exchange rate at the time of pricing, and not as much a discount for a multi-pack itself.

Something else to keep in mind, for exclusives to a specific retailer, the retailer itself does have some say in the pricing. Target in particular wants discounted multi-packs which is why up through last year we were able to get 3 deluxes and a voyager for $80 and this year for $90.

Edit: For poops and giggles I checked out Takara Tomy mall and regular deluxes are 4400JPY (30.44USD) while voyagers are 6600JPY (45.66USD). Three deluxe and a voyager at Japan's regular retail price would be 19800JPY(136.97) while the set with reflector and Thunder cracker is 16500JPY (114.14USD). Now all their prices do include tax, so I'm not sure how much that adds, but wow looks like their regular retail prices are higher than in the US. I thought they were more directly comparable in combiner wars and titan's return days, but I also could be misremembering.

[Emerje]

Really the point is a release like this should be cheaper than what the initial, individual figures had cost, even with a potentially increased amount of paint apps. When these figures are the exact same, previously released molds, no company should be charging the same price(s) as if what's included are new releases requiring new engineering, molds, etc.
And I get it, profits rule all...
But it's extremely telling that Hastak can sell the new Perceptor set for $35... Those figures separately would cost around $50. Let's not give them credit or fool ourselves that we're being given something (or anything) for free.
Technically that set is $15 cheaper than it could be, AND Hastak is still making substantial profit off of each and every one... Otherwise the set either wouldn't exist because it wouldn't make sense from a business aspect, or it would just flat-out cost more.

It's nice when sets are cheaper than the sum of their contents but I don't think it should be an expectation. We don't expect straight up repacks to be cheaper do we? We should also keep in mind that exclusives aren't just funded in part by the retailer but the price is also decided by them. Target is good about discounts, Walmart is hit or miss, Amazon rarely gives a discount, and Pulse/event exclusives tend to be priced up. Hasbro makes their money regardless, it's the retailer that's looking to take a loss if they decide to sell cheaper.

Emerje

[Sowndwave76]

Agree to disagree.

I think we absolutely should expect these sets to be cheaper... Which again, clearly has happened, and is continuing to.
This is one of those situations where because it doesn't happen often or often enough, people just concede to the status quo. Which of course, what choice is there? I get it.

So think about this set with Perceptor... It's an exclusive. There is retooling, a clear plastic part being replaced with solid plastic, and a brand new mold included. The sum of its contents could legitimately be $50. Then when you say it would be the retailer who takes a loss, let's be clear, "loss" meaning the percentage of profit is just slightly lowered... There's no way Target, even being a ginormous corporation, is taking an actual loss by stocking this set.
Take all this into consideration, and this set is priced $15 less than what it could be... Which is roughly 30% of what could be the total cost. How is this possible if repaints/retools aren't substantially cheaper???
Like I said before, neither Hastak nor Target is giving us something for free and taking some actual, big loss.

A repack is a different situation, and a couple things would need to be considered:
-the demand for the repack
-the timeframe between releases

I know this almost sounds bonkers because it almost never happens... But so many of these repainted/retooled figures should be cheaper, even if just slightly.

When the Target seeker 2-pk was released, that should have been $50, $55 at the most... That was 2 ER Starscream figures with different colors. No retooling, no extras.

A figure like Overcharge, which has a new head and different colors should not be $55... It could be $45-$50 and still bring in a lot of profit.

Again, I get it... It's all about business and money and profits. And yeah, I'm playing this game for another year and a half. But no, I'm not just okay with some of the prices placed on these toys... The way things are doesn't mean it's the way things should be.

[Emerje]

Agree to disagree.

I think we absolutely should expect these sets to be cheaper... Which again, clearly has happened, and is continuing to.
This is one of those situations where because it doesn't happen often or often enough, people just concede to the status quo. Which of course, what choice is there? I get it.

So think about this set with Perceptor... It's an exclusive. There is retooling, a clear plastic part being replaced with solid plastic, and a brand new mold included. The sum of its contents could legitimately be $50. Then when you say it would be the retailer who takes a loss, let's be clear, "loss" meaning the percentage of profit is just slightly lowered... There's no way Target, even being a ginormous corporation, is taking an actual loss by stocking this set.
Take all this into consideration, and this set is priced $15 less than what it could be... Which is roughly 30% of what could be the total cost. How is this possible if repaints/retools aren't substantially cheaper???
Like I said before, neither Hastak nor Target is giving us something for free and taking some actual, big loss.

A repack is a different situation, and a couple things would need to be considered:
-the demand for the repack
-the timeframe between releases

I know this almost sounds bonkers because it almost never happens... But so many of these repainted/retooled figures should be cheaper, even if just slightly.

When the Target seeker 2-pk was released, that should have been $50, $55 at the most... That was 2 ER Starscream figures with different colors. No retooling, no extras.

A figure like Overcharge, which has a new head and different colors should not be $55... It could be $45-$50 and still bring in a lot of profit.

Again, I get it... It's all about business and money and profits. And yeah, I'm playing this game for another year and a half. But no, I'm not just okay with some of the prices placed on these toys... The way things are doesn't mean it's the way things should be.

Hasbro isn't taking a loss, they get paid by Target, not consumers. Target drops the price to the point where they're barely making money because they're using these sets as loss leaders, something to draw people into the store and into the toy aisle in hopes to buy other things, preferably at full price. It's an age old strategy that stores have used for generations. In video games, consoles are loss leaders, game companies don't make money off of them they make money off people buying games. Stores use the same strategy with sales all the time, think of the box sets less as being sold cheap but more as them being permanently on sale. But that's Target's strategy, Walmart doesn't really do box sets any more so we can't judge they're pricing that much, but the Star Seeker did see a slightly lower price that basically gave us Nightstrike free. Being themed capsule that set was definitely being sold as a loss leader however minor. Amazon offers no discounts. All of their 2 packs with a Deluxe and a Voyager have been $60, the Deluxe Insecticon set with the Battlemaster was $55. Selects are also sold at retail prices, the new Dinobot G2 2 pack is $110. The Revenge of the Fallen 3 pack is also full priced at $115 for a Leader, a Voyager and a Deluxe.

Target is an outlier when it comes to big discounts on box sets, this is not the norm.

Emerje

[Sabrblade]

I think we absolutely should expect these sets to be cheaper...

We aren't the main audience for these sets. The Japanese are. Our expectations have no bearing on products not directly produced for our consumption.

[Sowndwave76]

I think we absolutely should expect these sets to be cheaper...

We aren't the main audience for these sets. The Japanese are. Our expectations have no bearing on products not directly produced for our consumption.

You say this as though these molds are brand new, never before released to the Japanese market, and that they're also exclusive to the Japanese market and are molds and characters that are completely foreign to the market in the U.S. (or anywhere else). It's not like this Part 1 set is from an episode of the cartoon that only aired in Japan. A lot of toys have moved to show accurate designs, which is the point of the DC series... Saying this is aimed at the Japanese market is pretty myopic. Is there a "larger audience" for G1 in Japan? Probably? And still, none of these sets have screamed, "Only intended for TF fans in Japan; anyone outside of this market will find little appeal in these characters/decos".

You're also saying this as if TT hasn't produced enough of these sets for distribution to the U.S. If that were part of this equation, then any retailer here in the U.S. that's getting/selling these sets would have to charge substantially more. This isn't the type of exclusive limited to a production run of 300 units and only sold in-store by one retailer on one day in one city in Japan.

So then the question becomes should these sets that essentially include nothing but repaints be cheaper? Not necessarily drastically cheaper, but even slightly?
All I'm saying is that I'm one who believes they should be. And based on other similar comments and commentary on YouTube, this isn't exactly some radical perspective. I don't really understand talk of this being such an outrageous take when a), it is a realistic option, and b), it's such a realistic option that it's literally already happened, including within the last month.
Specifically with this Part 1 set, the four figures included are from TWO different molds, not four different molds, and not even three. Spin this however you want to, but $115 before tax is more than this set should cost.

[Emerje]

I think we absolutely should expect these sets to be cheaper...

We aren't the main audience for these sets. The Japanese are. Our expectations have no bearing on products not directly produced for our consumption.

You say this as though these molds are brand new, never before released to the Japanese market, and that they're also exclusive to the Japanese market and are molds and characters that are completely foreign to the market in the U.S. (or anywhere else). It's not like this Part 1 set is from an episode of the cartoon that only aired in Japan. A lot of toys have moved to show accurate designs, which is the point of the DC series... Saying this is aimed at the Japanese market is pretty myopic. Is there a "larger audience" for G1 in Japan? Probably? And still, none of these sets have screamed, "Only intended for TF fans in Japan; anyone outside of this market will find little appeal in these characters/decos".

You're also saying this as if TT hasn't produced enough of these sets for distribution to the U.S. If that were part of this equation, then any retailer here in the U.S. that's getting/selling these sets would have to charge substantially more. This isn't the type of exclusive limited to a production run of 300 units and only sold in-store by one retailer on one day in one city in Japan.

So then the question becomes should these sets that essentially include nothing but repaints be cheaper? Not necessarily drastically cheaper, but even slightly?
All I'm saying is that I'm one who believes they should be. And based on other similar comments and commentary on YouTube, this isn't exactly some radical perspective. I don't really understand talk of this being such an outrageous take when a), it is a realistic option, and b), it's such a realistic option that it's literally already happened, including within the last month.
Specifically with this Part 1 set, the four figures included are from TWO different molds, not four different molds, and not even three. Spin this however you want to, but $115 before tax is more than this set should cost.

None of what you said matters. It was made by Takara Tomy for the Japanese market. Period. How many they make doesn't matter. Who sells it at what price doesn't matter. Hasbro did not make this set, they had to import it for US distribution which puts them at the mercy of Japanese prices. Yes, they're getting a substantial discount from Takara Tomy and making it available to other retailers so they can also have a substantial discount, but it's still not their product. They still have to pay Takara Tomy for these sets, they aren't cranking up the factory to make their own separate run of these figures, probably because they couldn't make enough to justify selling them at retail prices.

Emerje

[TF-fan kev777]

Additionally the only thing a repaint saves is the initial design and the mold cost. The amount of work to set up the production line is going to be largely the same regardless of how old the mold is or how many times it has been used. Materials and labor are not going to be cheaper than the original use of the molds and are likely more, regardless of what anyone things it should cost.

[Emerje]

Additionally the only thing a repaint saves is the initial design and the mold cost. The amount of work to set up the production line is going to be largely the same regardless of how old the mold is or how many times it has been used. Materials and labor are not going to be cheaper than the original use of the molds and are likely more, regardless of what anyone things it should cost.

People tend to forget that nearly all toys are hand made and every step of production requires someone's hands on it whether it's assembly, painting or packaging. It's impossible to make machines that automate toy making, that would require a specialized machine for every single individual toy out there and that's just unrealistic. It's not a cheap process, it isn't like a factory that just makes and bottles soda or makes and bags chips or what have you. It's very involved and very costly.

Emerje