Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Damolisher wrote:My theory on why Bumblebee liked Sam and Michaela (However the hell you spell her name). Sam's ears reminded him of Wheeljack, and Michaela's fat arse reminded him of Arcee.

The Allspark: Thunderwing violated the Allspark with his crossdimensional all-powerful lifeforce giving object corrupting powers.

The others... I have no idea.

Lol.
It's mikaela i think.

I was talking about the ammunition question the other day with a friend and we decided that if they can materialize all the metal panels, windows, etc. to create their disquise, then materializing some ammunition would seem to be no problem at all. Hell look at the giant metal sword Prime pulls out his tailpipe in the B/crusher battle.

Malikon wrote:I was talking about the ammunition question the other day with a friend and we decided that if they can materialize all the metal panels, windows, etc. to create their disquise, then materializing some ammunition would seem to be no problem at all. Hell look at the giant metal sword Prime pulls out his tailpipe in the B/crusher battle.

I didnt think they could 'materialise' anything. I though there was a certain mass to each transformer and using that mass the format themselves to look a certainly and transform into a particular object. If they could materialise matter why did Frenzy just re-materialize his body after his head was pulled off?

Yours AK

The Fallen. wrote:

Blitzwing the warrior wrote:- The "real gear" transformers created by the Allspark are sparkless and have not yet been able to control themselves

Yes, but that doesnot entitle them to go rampaging.
Not being able to control?
I assumed they would be more on confused as to who, where, what they were.

I didnt see it as a rampage.....I looked at it like how a baby crys and kicks right after birth.

Alex Kingdom wrote:Well I expect he did a search of the entire internetz and then rather unbelievably zeroed in on the etches on the glasses like Frenzy did. Which throws up another question or two, why was this not explained in the moive? And if the etching can be identifed from a pic on ebay why can't the co-orinates of the Allspark be idenitfied from the picture too?

Yours AK

Because they looked like random scraches to the human eye.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Well I expect he did a search of the entire internetz and then rather unbelievably zeroed in on the etches on the glasses like Frenzy did. Which throws up another question or two, why was this not explained in the moive? And if the etching can be identifed from a pic on ebay why can't the co-orinates of the Allspark be idenitfied from the picture too?

Yours AK

Because they looked like random scraches to the human eye.

I think he means if the Transformers saw the etchings, not the humans. If the Transformers saw them, they effectively saw the map. Why didn't they just use that image to find the Allspark directly rather than bothering to find the spectacles?

Leonardo wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Well I expect he did a search of the entire internetz and then rather unbelievably zeroed in on the etches on the glasses like Frenzy did. Which throws up another question or two, why was this not explained in the moive? And if the etching can be identifed from a pic on ebay why can't the co-orinates of the Allspark be idenitfied from the picture too?

Yours AK

Because they looked like random scraches to the human eye.

I think he means if the Transformers saw the etchings, not the humans. If the Transformers saw them, they effectively saw the map. Why didn't they just use that image to find the Allspark directly rather than bothering to find the spectacles?

Ok then maybe its because Sam had a cheep dige-cam and posted a bad pic...just like a lot of ebay'ers.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Well I expect he did a search of the entire internetz and then rather unbelievably zeroed in on the etches on the glasses like Frenzy did. Which throws up another question or two, why was this not explained in the moive? And if the etching can be identifed from a pic on ebay why can't the co-orinates of the Allspark be idenitfied from the picture too?

Yours AK

Because they looked like random scraches to the human eye.

I think he means if the Transformers saw the etchings, not the humans. If the Transformers saw them, they effectively saw the map. Why didn't they just use that image to find the Allspark directly rather than bothering to find the spectacles?

Ok then maybe its because Sam had a cheep dige-cam and posted a bad pic...just like a lot of ebay'ers.

I think it's because(like someone said before) the glasses were like data disks, and they need to physically interact with them,like Prime did, in order to see the map. The data isn't the map. The data creates the map.

Alex Kingdom wrote:After discussion in another thread on this forum I though it would be great to start a 'fill in the plotholes' thread where fans of the movie can desperately scramble to fill the many plotholes in the Transformers movie in a desperate bid to save it from criticism. As we know the plot of this movie had more hole in it that a swiss cheese, we all know fans like to retrospectively fill these holes in with fuzzy logic they've picked up various sources be the official or otherwise, so why don’t you give it a go. Here are a handful of plotholes to get us started. Feel free to submit more as and when you discover them!

- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt into the glasses?
- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

I’m sure you can come up with explanation and your own plotholes to challenge us with!

Yours AK

You mentioned this idea in my topic about bringing back Bonecrusher And about the questions... Hummmm... There is a logical answer for the first question: When they "born" they are confused and they attack everything because they think everyone is threat to them. And let me think another time about the other questions.

- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?

I asked this myself. The reverse engineering from Megatron or the feral thing was the most common suggested. I would go with the feral thing.

- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?

Prime said in the intro that they got a message leading them to Earth. Perhaps when Megatron's navigational systems burnt the location onto the glasses, it also sent a homeing beacon to Cybertron. It just took them this long to recieve the signal and travel here.

- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?

Because they wanted to cross reference their findings on the two objects. And they're stupid.

- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?

Like people said, he probably recognised the etchings from the ebay page. Or he was using Sam to get to Mikaela.

- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

Can't remember why they did this. They just fled there after escaping the dam. Perhaps Starscream ambushed them before they had a chance to get through the city. Surely if they were making the final stand there, they would have evacuated civillians.

if the etching can be identifed from a pic on ebay why can't the co-orinates of the Allspark be idenitfied from the picture too?

Because they need to fire the holographic projector through the etchings to reveal the map.



Here's some of my own:

If Megatron etched the location of the Allspark on the glasses when he landed, and the Allspark was moved into the dam, how did the map lead them to the dam? And don't say the dam was built around the cube because that thing was suspended above the floor, and it was not solid rock underneath it, so it clearly wasn't on the bottom of the dam, meaning they could and did move it.

Mikaela wont sit in the drivers seat when Bumblebee is driving, but she's perfectly happy to make out on his bonnet with others watching. What kind of kinkyness is that lass into?

What exactly is the state of Cybertron, and why does the loss of the cube mean the planet is gone?

Why did Barricade's hologram driver look like the Sector Seven guy that went to the Pentagon? That one really confused me.

Why did Blackout go to Iraq to access the government computers, when there were plenty of military bases in America? Why not just go to the Pentagon and download from the servers directly?

Why didn't anyone notice Starscream take off from that military base? Surely the control tower would wonder what the hell the pilot was doing. And if Starscream was already at a military base, why didn't he just download the data?

Insurgent wrote:


Here's some of my own:

If Megatron etched the location of the Allspark on the glasses when he landed, and the Allspark was moved into the dam, how did the map lead them to the dam? And don't say the dam was built around the cube because that thing was suspended above the floor, and it was not solid rock underneath it, so it clearly wasn't on the bottom of the dam, meaning they could and did move it.

The dialog in the movie suggests that it was found there by the first 7 and that the dam was build around it.As for it being suspended off the floor....my guess is that all the surrounding rock was removed while it was being duged out and the dam was built.

Insurgent wrote:Mikaela wont sit in the drivers seat when Bumblebee is driving, but she's perfectly happy to make out on his bonnet with others watching. What kind of kinkyness is that lass into?

I dont know but I would sure like to finf out

Insurgent wrote:What exactly is the state of Cybertron, and why does the loss of the cube mean the planet is gone?

It was a metaphor......with the cube lost they could not re-populate the planet.......and with out a population a planet is nothing but a waste of material.

Insurgent wrote:Why did Barricade's hologram driver look like the Sector Seven guy that went to the Pentagon? That one really confused me.

I never notic that one Maybe the guys twin was a pilot.

Insurgent wrote:Why did Blackout go to Iraq to access the government computers, when there were plenty of military bases in America? Why not just go to the Pentagon and download from the servers directly?

Iraq has plenty of military veichles flying in and out of its air space right now...he had a better chance of getting in then if he was to enter American Airspace.Also it was a remote base where reinforcements would be hard to come by....if he had attacked a base on American soil,chances are that he wouldnt have survived.Also yhe fact that they were still hiding their existalce to the general populance of Earth....if they would have attacked the Pentagon every body would have knowen about them.

Insurgent wrote:Why didn't anyone notice Starscream take off from that military base? Surely the control tower would wonder what the hell the pilot was doing. And if Starscream was already at a military base, why didn't he just download the data?

He considered himsel above such petty tasks???????

That is a good point about the ammunition, it seems whichever explanation you use neither will make sense

Something else that 'bothers' me ... I think their disguise should only be skin deep, once you go under the hood it should be pure cybertronian

Moonbase2 wrote:

Reading the prequel comic will help answer a lot of these questions, or even the prequel novel, if you care to read them.

Reading it actually raised a few more questions, such as, how did Witwicky see into the future?

syphonn wrote:

Moonbase2 wrote:

Reading the prequel comic will help answer a lot of these questions, or even the prequel novel, if you care to read them.

Reading it actually raised a few more questions, such as, how did Witwicky see into the future?

because sometimes complete nutballs can do that.

Actually, who the heck knows? I guess if we can have robotic aliens we can have clairevoyance.

Insurgent wrote:- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

Can't remember why they did this. They just fled there after escaping the dam. Perhaps Starscream ambushed them before they had a chance to get through the city. Surely if they were making the final stand there, they would have evacuated civillians.

Nah, I checked they went there deliberately.

Captain Lennox - "Right, we stay hee we're screwed with Megatron in the other hanger. Mission city's 22 miles away we're going to sneek the cube out of here and we're gonna hide it somewhere in the city."

Instead of protesting about the possible loss of innocent lives and destruction to property and so on...

Defense Secretary John Keller- "Good! Right!"

Doh!

Captain Lennox- "But we cannot make a stand without the air force"

Eluding to making their stand in the city.

Defense Secretary John Keller- "This place must have some kinda radio link?"

Agent Simmons (one of the most ridiculous unnecessary characters i the entire movie) confirms this.

Captain Lennox- "Sir you gotta figure out some way to get word out....Lets move!"

And off they trot to Mission city no mention of an alternative venue for 'making a stand' just lets take what the murderous giant robots want to the center of a huge city without evacuating the populous or even warning them, and lets not make any effort to hide the fact we are doing it so the Decepticons will follow us there before we have chance to formulate a plan of defense.

Pretty dumb is you ask me.

Yours AK


]

Alex Kingdom wrote:After discussion in another thread on this forum I though it would be great to start a 'fill in the plotholes' thread where fans of the movie can desperately scramble to fill the many plotholes in the Transformers movie in a desperate bid to save it from criticism. As we know the plot of this movie had more hole in it that a swiss cheese, we all know fans like to retrospectively fill these holes in with fuzzy logic they've picked up various sources be the official or otherwise, so why don’t you give it a go. Here are a handful of plotholes to get us started. Feel free to submit more as and when you discover them!

- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?
- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

I’m sure you can come up with explanation and your own plotholes to challenge us with!

Yours AK

Wow those plots are good. Nice work

Bumbled wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:After discussion in another thread on this forum I though it would be great to start a 'fill in the plotholes' thread where fans of the movie can desperately scramble to fill the many plotholes in the Transformers movie in a desperate bid to save it from criticism. As we know the plot of this movie had more hole in it that a swiss cheese, we all know fans like to retrospectively fill these holes in with fuzzy logic they've picked up various sources be the official or otherwise, so why don’t you give it a go. Here are a handful of plotholes to get us started. Feel free to submit more as and when you discover them!

- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?
- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

I’m sure you can come up with explanation and your own plotholes to challenge us with!

Yours AK

Wow those plots are good. Nice work

Pardon?

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?
- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

Yours AK

Ok, either this is a reeeeally old thread or not well thought up.

- They are sparkless & thus privative & uncontrollable. NOT evil.
- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.
- Again, prequel comic time. Bumblebee went on Squiggle (a google ripoff) & searched extraterrestrials. Found that Archibald Witwicky claimed to have seen a "Megaman". Found Sam Witwicky, found his ebay account & looked at the glasses Archie was wearing when he found Megatron. Then he thought "Hrrrm, you know, maybe there's a connection"...
- It isn't... When did it ever say it was? There was no where else they could do it! Either the fek ass big town nearby or the Damn, which holds a lot of alien tech... not really a good idea to fight the evil aliens near a load of stuff they can use...

That was way too easy...

Justicity wrote:- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.

These points make no sense. How do Megatron's eyes explain anyone else knowing about a map being burnt onto the spectacles? I like Insurgent's idea about the beacon but I don't see how / why a homing beacon would tell the other Transformers that the data in Megatron's guidance system had been etched into some spectacles.

And if S7 believed Megatron was offline then they wouldn't have needed to keep him frozen, unless it was the freezing that was keeping him offline, in which case Megatron was merely sedated, which means he could wake up, which means they did compromise their own security right from the get-go.

So, they're still plot-holes because they compromise the integrity of the film's plot. A film shouldn't require supporting material, like the prequels, to maintain its logic.

Leonardo wrote:

Justicity wrote:- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.

These points make no sense. How do Megatron's eyes explain anyone else knowing about a map being burnt onto the spectacles?

I think he was saying MEGATRONS EYES! in a uber Transformers geek "BY PRIMUS!" way.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Justicity wrote:- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.

These points make no sense. How do Megatron's eyes explain anyone else knowing about a map being burnt onto the spectacles?

I think he was saying MEGATRONS EYES! in a uber Transformers geek "BY PRIMUS!" way.

Yours AK

Ah, right, I see. My mistake there, then. Well, I have the prequel comics. I still don't get it.

Justicity wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?
- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?

Yours AK

Ok, either this is a reeeeally old thread or not well thought up.

- They are sparkless & thus privative & uncontrollable. NOT evil.
- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.
- Again, prequel comic time. Bumblebee went on Squiggle (a google ripoff) & searched extraterrestrials. Found that Archibald Witwicky claimed to have seen a "Megaman". Found Sam Witwicky, found his ebay account & looked at the glasses Archie was wearing when he found Megatron. Then he thought "Hrrrm, you know, maybe there's a connection"...
- It isn't... When did it ever say it was? There was no where else they could do it! Either the fek ass big town nearby or the Damn, which holds a lot of alien tech... not really a good idea to fight the evil aliens near a load of stuff they can use...

That was way too easy...

And maybe you should read the rest of the thread:

Alex_Kingodom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

The Fallen. wrote:

Blitzwing the warrior wrote:- The "real gear" transformers created by the Allspark are sparkless and have not yet been able to control themselves

Yes, but that doesnot entitle them to go rampaging.
Not being able to control?
I assumed they would be more on confused as to who, where, what they were.

As for the "Real Gear" Transformers, why didn't they have a spark? How were they alive? I thought the point of the Allspark was that it gave them sparks.

Indeed its not much of an ALL SPARK if it contains no sparks is it?

I find the backwards engineering from Megatron theory a lot more plausible TBH, however I don’t really see how creating technology from alien technology that has an evil spark would make the sparks given to the technology by the Allspark evil, just doesn’t figure that Megatrons ’evil’ would be part of the fabric of his being to me. I’m pretty sure Megatron doesn’t think of himself as evil.

Leonardo wrote:The problem with using the prequel comics and novel is that one shouldn't need external material to answer basic plot questions. Supporting sources should extend the plot, not answer fundamental questions about the film itself. The explanations themselves seem reasonable enough, though, but few of them were hinted at in the film.

I 100% agree with this statement you shouldn't have to pick up extra material to fully understand the basic plot of a movie. For me that’s the sign of some very poor storytelling, there should have been something in the movie to how the Autobots knew about the glasses.

-How did they know Megatron was ‘offline’? He’s an alien that they know very little about. Also the seemed to be pretty concerned that they kept him on ice so I assume they knew that if he thawed out there was a good chance he come back ‘online’. Keeping him next door to the Allspark was shear stupidity.

-As for the city business you point just doesn’t hold water. Given a choke between a city full of innocent people and a damn full of alien tech that the Autobots could probably use to defeat the Decepticons I know which I’d see as the tactical advantage/safest option.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Justicity wrote:- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.

These points make no sense. How do Megatron's eyes explain anyone else knowing about a map being burnt onto the spectacles?

I think he was saying MEGATRONS EYES! in a uber Transformers geek "BY PRIMUS!" way.

Yours AK

Actually I thought the original question was "How had the map had been burnt onto the glasses?" but I like AK's explanation better I may use that from now on... MEGATRON'S EYES!!! hehe... fanboyishness...
Yea, sorry, I believe I'm dyslexic (cant be bothered to test it), I have problems reading things correctly, words, sentences, vital differences between questions. I just read them how I think they are when I first see them, then I can't read them differently until someone points them out. It means I should never be allowed to read out loud, or answer questions apparently. XD
Again, sorry.

And apologies for my initial post being so aggressive & for not reading the rest of the topic, but the mistake I made with regards to question2 lead me to believe you were being an idiot. Sorry *whimper, cower, run away*

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:The problem with using the prequel comics and novel is that one shouldn't need external material to answer basic plot questions. Supporting sources should extend the plot, not answer fundamental questions about the film itself. The explanations themselves seem reasonable enough, though, but few of them were hinted at in the film.

(snip) For me that’s the sign of some very poor storytelling,(snip)

No, thats a sign of good marketing. "want to understand the movie? Buy the comics, the books, the lunch boxes & the shoes..."

Justicity wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:The problem with using the prequel comics and novel is that one shouldn't need external material to answer basic plot questions. Supporting sources should extend the plot, not answer fundamental questions about the film itself. The explanations themselves seem reasonable enough, though, but few of them were hinted at in the film.

(snip) For me that’s the sign of some very poor storytelling,(snip)

No, thats a sign of good marketing. "want to understand the movie? Buy the comics, the books, the lunch boxes & the shoes..."

I, for one don't, begrudge Hasbro their marketing. It happens to all these sorts of franchises.

I see why you said "Megatron's eyes" now.