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Justicity wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Leonardo wrote:The problem with using the prequel comics and novel is that one shouldn't need external material to answer basic plot questions. Supporting sources should extend the plot, not answer fundamental questions about the film itself. The explanations themselves seem reasonable enough, though, but few of them were hinted at in the film.

(snip) For me that’s the sign of some very poor storytelling,(snip)

No, thats a sign of good marketing. "want to understand the movie? Buy the comics, the books, the lunch boxes & the shoes..."

They have to make you care about understanding the movie frist, something I personally felt they failed to do. I personally feel that at the very least the movie should make sense to the viewer. Not have them asking wWhat? How? Why? When? as information fundamental to the plot is missed out to make way for the next action sequence.

Yours AK

Leonardo wrote:

Justicity wrote:- MEGATRONS EYES! Read the prequel comic.
- How is this a plot hole??? Why keep them together? Cause Megatron was OFFLINE.

These points make no sense. How do Megatron's eyes explain anyone else knowing about a map being burnt onto the spectacles? I like Insurgent's idea about the beacon but I don't see how / why a homing beacon would tell the other Transformers that the data in Megatron's guidance system had been etched into some spectacles.

And if S7 believed Megatron was offline then they wouldn't have needed to keep him frozen, unless it was the freezing that was keeping him offline, in which case Megatron was merely sedated, which means he could wake up, which means they did compromise their own security right from the get-go.

So, they're still plot-holes because they compromise the integrity of the film's plot. A film shouldn't require supporting material, like the prequels, to maintain its logic.

The homing beacon didn't explain about the glasses, only that they should come to Earth (this being the signal Prime mentions in the opening dialogue). And if Megatron was on Earth, it was logical to assume the Allspark was here as well, since that's what he went off to find. I can only assume they researched the internet for any reference to Megatron/Allspark type objects, found out about Witwicky scribbling in Cybertronian, saw an image of him wearing his glasses with the markings on them, tracked these things to Sam and his Ebay page, did some more research, found out where he lived and went there.

And you are absolutly correct. We should not have to go and find the supporting material to answer questions about a film's plot. That's why it's called supporting material.


Your right, I remember them saying they built the dam around the cube now.

Alex Kingdom wrote:Captain Lennox - "Right, we stay hee we're screwed with Megatron in the other hanger. Mission city's 22 miles away we're going to sneek the cube out of here and we're gonna hide it somewhere in the city."

Instead of protesting about the possible loss of innocent lives and destruction to property and so on...

Defense Secretary John Keller- "Good! Right!"

Ah, the trouble with only seeing the film once is, I can't remember all of the conversations. But if this is the actual conversation, then they are all a bunch of moronic idiots and Megatron should have ripped them in half instead of Jazz. Or have Blackout slice them.

I agree with you that they should make a film that makes you want to go and buy the supporting material if they are gonna play this card. But I do not have the interest in the movie continuity to justify purchasing the prequal comics. If it was IDWverse, then yeah, I probably would. But not the movie-verse.

Insurgent wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Captain Lennox - "Right, we stay hee we're screwed with Megatron in the other hanger. Mission city's 22 miles away we're going to sneek the cube out of here and we're gonna hide it somewhere in the city."

Instead of protesting about the possible loss of innocent lives and destruction to property and so on...

Defense Secretary John Keller- "Good! Right!"

Ah, the trouble with only seeing the film once is, I can't remember all of the conversations. But if this is the actual conversation, then they are all a bunch of moronic idiots and Megatron should have ripped them in half instead of Jazz. Or have Blackout slice them.

Yup it's the actual conversation I dug out the almost unwatchable pirate copy I downloaded a month before the movie came out in the UK just to check. That's the conversation word for word.

Yours AK

Then they are all a bunch of moronic idiots and Megatron should have ripped them in half instead of Jazz.

Insurgent wrote:Then they are all a bunch of moronic idiots and Megatron should have ripped them in half instead of Jazz.

One does have to remember that most of the time its impossible to hear the dialogue in this movie over booming incidental music, explosions and crazy sound effects. So it's not surprising you didn't hear it first time round.

Yours AK

When i watched it i was happy to just accept the films logic because i was enjoying it so much - but now i think back on it the plot holes really piss me off

Its incredibly badly written, there is no way they'd know about the glasses, and why did the writers include that plot line anyway??

Saberwing wrote:Its incredibly badly written, there is no way they'd know about the glasses, and why did the writers include that plot line anyway??

Good question. It was certainly a bizarre choice, especially given that the filmmakers were trying to ask non-Transformers fans (i.e. regular movie-goers) to accept the premise of giant alien transforming robots landing on Earth. That in itself is a rather fantastic notion; to include such a convoluted plot line about maps being etched onto spectacles as well as that premise seems downright mad. Why muddy the waters? Why make it more complex than it needed to be?

Leonardo wrote:

Saberwing wrote:Its incredibly badly

Good question. It was certainly a bizarre choice, especially given that the filmmakers were trying to ask non-Transformers fans (i.e. regular movie-goers) to accept the premise of giant alien transforming robots landing on Earth. That in itself is a rather fantastic notion; to include such a convoluted plot line about maps being etched onto spectacles as well as that premise seems downright mad. Why muddy the waters? Why make it more complex than it needed to be?

Indeed - we have an Australian working high level NSA cracking codes(dont u have to be a national for that kind of work?), Sam chasing tail, glasses with maps, fozen robots, giant cubes and black sterotypes...

...the only thing the film didnt have much of was giant robots - how very odd in a film called 'Transformers'....

D-340 wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Malikon wrote:It wasn't supposed to be a venue for a final battle, they stopped there to get CB's from the pawn shop. Then all hell broke loose when StarScream bombed them and blew Bbee all to pieces.

Most of your theories seem pretty sound but this one? I distinctly remember the main Marine guy (can't remember his name) saying something like "if we say here we're screwed (megaton being next door and all) Well take the cube to the city and hide it and make our stand there" why hide it in a city? Why go to the city at all? I'm pretty sure the specifically went there to "make a stand' against the Decepticons with the help of air support.
mainly because it's more epic to have 20 ft tall robots fighting in the middle of a huge city rather that an open field?

Yours AK

They went to the city to hide the cube, that he said. The whole fighting the 'Cons off in the city though didn't make sense to me either.

Hiding the cube in a big city makes alot of sense, cuz it would be more difficult to find. It seems they can't track the cube themselves, so that part of the plan was good in theroy.

The whole make a stand in the city, well, was idiotic at best. I always though a diversion would've been a better plan Hide the cube in the city, lead the 'Cons elsewhere.

- Why are all Transformers created by the Allspark evil?
They are not evil, they are simply following instincts, and they have a spark. Being made of metal in a world full of fleshlings and having natural weapons, makes them fearful, and thus, aggresive.

- how anyone else know that a map had been burnt onto the glasses?
The Transformers first looked into learning earth's internet protocols, then human languages, then searched for evidences of megatron's collision, then found about Witwicky and its Cybertronian signs, then to Sam and the marks in the glasses aren't precisely a map, they are a holograph, so from the JPEG on Ebay they couldn't calculate the holographic pattern of the full map. When Witwicky activated Megatron, Megatron should have thought somewhat that a decepticon fellow was coming to him, so he engraved an holographic map.

- why did they bury the Cube in a dam to shield it from N.B.E. detection, only to house an N.B.E. in the room next door?
As the agent said, the NBE haven't been ever a danger, it was thought to be inactive permanently because of its frozen state.

- why Bumblebee was interested in Sam in the first place even though he knew nothing of the glasses at that point?
He knew, but as he couldn't speak, he waited until Optimus came to inform Sam.

- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?
They thought the only enemy to take care of was Megatron and/or Blackout at first (and Blackout was far away), and they thought to be able to escape because they didn't knew that the rest of the Decepticons were precisely waiting in the city, searching for them. They didn't knew about Starscream or Megatron's flying alt modes, nor they knew Starscream was doing recon over all the city searching for them, they initially thought it was one of their own F-22.
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Guys, guys, guys, it has been OFICIALLY stated by Roberto Orci that when transformers are created directly, they are primal TF's. Indirectly would mean appaarently through Cybertron, that the TF's would be created, like Prime wanted. I'll try and look to see if i can find the quote...

mizanyx wrote:- why it was considered a good military decision to chose a city centre as the venue for the final battle?
They thought the only enemy to take care of was Megatron and/or Blackout at first (and Blackout was far away), and they thought to be able to escape because they didn't knew that the rest of the Decepticons were precisely waiting in the city, searching for them. They didn't knew about Starscream or Megatron's flying alt modes, nor they knew Starscream was doing recon over all the city searching for them, they initially thought it was one of their own F-22.
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makes sense to me. Best explanation I've found so far actually.

-Barricades sudden absence from the movie at the end.

We last saw Barricade zooming out NASCAR style towards Sam and Mikela, Sam saying "oh damn, it's that cop. We're dead." And that was it. But here's what really happend to Barricade.

After Barricade lane change he noticed a billboard for a Dunkn' Donuts and took the offramp to get some glazed donuts and coffee. Hey He's a cop car after all. =P

-Skopronok disappears after getting nailed by the nerf foam guns

When Skorp retreated into the ground he found a cavern of "sleeping people" but when a trumpet was heard all the "sleeping" people arose and began to scream "get the flag get the flag get the flag" and poor Skorp was forced to kill these immortal beings trying to capture each others flags..Thus he was detroyed from stress on his circutry from the stupidity of the beings.

-Starscream firing the missle at Megatron?

Yes he did shoot a missle at Megs but not on purpose, when Screamer was transforming he sneezed from the flies and such in the sky (Earth is polluted) and a missle came out and nailed Megatron. Snot cool =P

-Jazz in alt mode while everyone else is taking cover and watching BB get his legs blown off.

Jazz figured he'd be safe in alt mode since no one would destroy a pontiac solstine..And he was right he only had dirt on him. But in bot mode..Ya he died from Meg's arm spreading attack.

Thats all the plotholes I can think of so far, if anyone can name the reference to Skorps scenario..Wins..some points and stuff. =D

How does freezing them keep them imobilized? They hashed out an explanation for Megatron, but what about Bumblebee?

Also, what happened to Megatron during the time after he fell into the ice and him being thawed, they said he was too weak to stay conscious yet when the ice melted he was up up and away.

I think liquid nitrogen being sprayed on a living robot would immobilize it pretty well actually.

Space travel, 0Kelvin, absence of heat ...

syphonn wrote:Space travel, 0Kelvin, absence of heat ...

Precisely, these guys just traveled here through cold empty space for millions of miles, if that didn't 'immobilizes' them then no amount of liquid nitrogen should do.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:

syphonn wrote:Space travel, 0Kelvin, absence of heat ...

Precisely, these guys just traveled here through cold empty space for millions of miles, if that didn't 'immobilizes' them then no amount of liquid nitrogen should do.

Yours AK

Didnt the Autobots travel here in some kind of cocone?I know that it dosnt explaine Megatron suviving space but I was wondering.

that's what I was thinking too. They travel in thier protoform/cocoon looking shape, which probably shields their more vulnerable parts.

The cold of space is a good argument though.

Precisly why they should have used ships, instead of dropping out of the sky and landing on their heads. The energy alone needed to travel that distance would put strain on their systems.


And why would they all have 'rock mode' on Cybertron? What kind of transformer species are they when they turn into flying rocks? What kind of war could they fight when they turn into rocks?

Grrr, I hate protoforms. Except for BW protoforms. They went about it the right way.

Insurgent wrote:Precisly why they should have used ships, instead of dropping out of the sky and landing on their heads. The energy alone needed to travel that distance would put strain on their systems.


And why would they all have 'rock mode' on Cybertron? What kind of transformer species are they when they turn into flying rocks? What kind of war could they fight when they turn into rocks?

Grrr, I hate protoforms. Except for BW protoforms. They went about it the right way.

A-hem.

http://tfu.info/Gobots/rocklords.htm

Senor Hugo wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Precisly why they should have used ships, instead of dropping out of the sky and landing on their heads. The energy alone needed to travel that distance would put strain on their systems.


And why would they all have 'rock mode' on Cybertron? What kind of transformer species are they when they turn into flying rocks? What kind of war could they fight when they turn into rocks?

Grrr, I hate protoforms. Except for BW protoforms. They went about it the right way.

A-hem.

http://tfu.info/Gobots/rocklords.htm

WHAT! THE! HELL!

Seriously? Rocks? As alt modes? Plus, they are gobots. I would expect nothing less.

Even if the Protoform state protected them from space, isn't it still they that transform into that state, unlike beast wars where they are in some form of vessel, in the movie they are the vessel.

Spaceships for deep space flight. alt modes for short range (alien vehicles, doesn't really matter how they look, because they are alien).

Megatron is part God, so who knows what he's actually made out of that allows for long range interstellar flight.

-Why do they go to the city?
I agree with the... They didn't know they had other Cons to hide from, which explains, Lennox's line,"We are so dead." He didn't think they would be up against Blackout again, or any of the other cons. Which leads to a new question...
-In a film trying to promote realism... Why do they go to "Mission City"? The most populated city near the Hoover Dam is Las Vegas, which could have been a cool battle site...
I can't answer that one. I think it would have been cooler to have a real city in there, which I figured at first, that it was LA (where it was filmed) but then after thinking about it... LA is a couple hundred miles from Las Vegas/Hoover Dam. No sense... But Lennox does say Mission City, which doesn't exist.
-Why does Prime take so long getting back to the fight, when it obviously took very little time to take care of Bonecrusher?
-Why does Prime 'run' away from the S7 guys?
-What are the odds, that a brand new Camaro (with black stripes), would be passing (actually following also) Bumblebee at the time he decides to scan a new skin?

That's all I got for now. Enjoy.