Decepticon_Vandal wrote:Here are the Kill/Death ratios of the Autobots vs the Decepticons in the Bay films, not counting human casualties or off-screen kills. (TFs who made no kills and did not die are not listed)
-Jetfire-
K: 2 (A Decepticon and Scorponok)
D: 1 (wounded by Scorponok; suicide)
Marcdachamp wrote:You forgot Chromia and Elita 1. Also, Wheelie and Brains seemed to not survive their crash, and, if you count off camera deaths, Skids and Mudflap.
Marcdachamp wrote:You forgot Chromia and Elita 1. Also, Wheelie and Brains seemed to not survive their crash, and, if you count off camera deaths, Skids and Mudflap.
Blackstreak wrote:Marcdachamp wrote:You forgot Chromia and Elita 1. Also, Wheelie and Brains seemed to not survive their crash, and, if you count off camera deaths, Skids and Mudflap.
I don't necessarily count these four as casualties. Like Barricade was originally we just don't know what happened to them. Nor do the movies say anything about them. I prefer to assume Skids and Mudflap went off planet traveling somewhere else. Brains only implied they were going down with the ship. How about a list of MIAs instead? Which would include these four autobots plus the third bike sister...what was her name again?
Autobot032 wrote:Not counting human kills and casualties? This isn't a fair assessment of what went down, then.
The Autobots were clearly proficient in killing their own kind, but the Decepticons clearly are the winners by sheer numbers. But, since we can't count those numbers, the movie kills aren't the only thing one-sided in this thread...
Oh and one thing made obvious in the series? The Autobots weren't capable of such precision until they met the humans. Prime took off ONE head (Bonecrusher), Bumblebee helped kill Brawl, and he only beat up Barricade. In ROTF, after being with N.E.S.T., we see Prime be a bad ass on a psycho level. In DOTM, almost all of the Autobots were proficient with killing.
Even the Decepticons were going to keep Bumblebee, Q and Ratchet as prisoners until a human told them to kill them instead of keeping them alive.
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
Marcdachamp wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Not counting human kills and casualties? This isn't a fair assessment of what went down, then.
The Autobots were clearly proficient in killing their own kind, but the Decepticons clearly are the winners by sheer numbers. But, since we can't count those numbers, the movie kills aren't the only thing one-sided in this thread...
Oh and one thing made obvious in the series? The Autobots weren't capable of such precision until they met the humans. Prime took off ONE head (Bonecrusher), Bumblebee helped kill Brawl, and he only beat up Barricade. In ROTF, after being with N.E.S.T., we see Prime be a bad ass on a psycho level. In DOTM, almost all of the Autobots were proficient with killing.
Even the Decepticons were going to keep Bumblebee, Q and Ratchet as prisoners until a human told them to kill them instead of keeping them alive.
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
I like this theory. It's very interesting.
Autobot032 wrote:Not counting human kills and casualties? This isn't a fair assessment of what went down, then.
The Autobots were clearly proficient in killing their own kind, but the Decepticons clearly are the winners by sheer numbers. But, since we can't count those numbers, the movie kills aren't the only thing one-sided in this thread...
Oh and one thing made obvious in the series? The Autobots weren't capable of such precision until they met the humans. Prime took off ONE head (Bonecrusher), Bumblebee helped kill Brawl, and he only beat up Barricade. In ROTF, after being with N.E.S.T., we see Prime be a bad ass on a psycho level. In DOTM, almost all of the Autobots were proficient with killing.
Even the Decepticons were going to keep Bumblebee, Q and Ratchet as prisoners until a human told them to kill them instead of keeping them alive.
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
Decepticon Spike wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Not counting human kills and casualties? This isn't a fair assessment of what went down, then.
The Autobots were clearly proficient in killing their own kind, but the Decepticons clearly are the winners by sheer numbers. But, since we can't count those numbers, the movie kills aren't the only thing one-sided in this thread...
Oh and one thing made obvious in the series? The Autobots weren't capable of such precision until they met the humans. Prime took off ONE head (Bonecrusher), Bumblebee helped kill Brawl, and he only beat up Barricade. In ROTF, after being with N.E.S.T., we see Prime be a bad ass on a psycho level. In DOTM, almost all of the Autobots were proficient with killing.
Even the Decepticons were going to keep Bumblebee, Q and Ratchet as prisoners until a human told them to kill them instead of keeping them alive.
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
That brings about a question I've had: Why would the Cons wait until Dylan told them to take no prisoners? Decepticons in every other TF universe never took prisoners, unless they were needed for something.
Autobot032 wrote:Not counting human kills and casualties? This isn't a fair assessment of what went down, then.
The Autobots were clearly proficient in killing their own kind, but the Decepticons clearly are the winners by sheer numbers. But, since we can't count those numbers, the movie kills aren't the only thing one-sided in this thread...
Oh and one thing made obvious in the series? The Autobots weren't capable of such precision until they met the humans. Prime took off ONE head (Bonecrusher), Bumblebee helped kill Brawl, and he only beat up Barricade. In ROTF, after being with N.E.S.T., we see Prime be a bad ass on a psycho level. In DOTM, almost all of the Autobots were proficient with killing.
Even the Decepticons were going to keep Bumblebee, Q and Ratchet as prisoners until a human told them to kill them instead of keeping them alive.
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
Decepticon_Vandal wrote:This is about the Cybertronians in question, therefor human involvement has little impact on this statistic in particular. Also, how can you possibly say that a few years with humans turned the Autobots into unstoppable destruction machines? The Decepticons and Autobots have been fighting for millennia, whatever secrets of defeating one's enemy would have been revealed in that time, my friend.
Decepticon_Vandal wrote:Bearing that in mind, how do the Decepticons, who fought the Autobots for thousands of years and who supposedly won the war for Cybertron, fight so poorly against but a handful of Autobots even with an army? You forget that most Autobots before the war were civilians whereas the Decepticons were almost unanimously soldiers or gladiators. They ignored everything about that and still gave an overwhelming victory to the good-guys every time.
Decepticon_Vandal wrote:In most movie series or trilogies the bad-guys win at least once to establish that they are a serious threat, example: Empire Strike Back is still considered to be the best Star Wars film to date and we got to see just how ruthless and resourceful the Galactic Empire really was. But in these films, the bad-guys are made of eternal failure incapable of holding even the briefest of victories.
Decepticon_Vandal wrote:On an added note, in the first film it was established that the Decepticons had an energy-based shielding around their chassis making them near invulnerable to small-arms fire and required much heavier ordnance to harm them. In the subsequent films they ignore this pre-established fact and just make it so they only need to shoot the eyes and they're done. Its called deus ex machina, look it up.
Autobot032 wrote:How can I possibly say that? Because it's been in the films. In the films, the Autobots and Decepticons had stopped fighting and were searching for the All Spark. For eons they've been adrift in space searching, not fighting.
Optimus and the Autobots had their tailpipes handed to them for the most part in the first film. Without Lennox, the Air Force and Sam, Optimus would've died at the hands of Megatron.
Megatron was frozen in time, he was frozen at a time when war was still fresh in his mind, and so was the blood on his hands.
Autobot032 wrote:You're thinking in G1 terms. This movieverse is not G1. The whole Soldier/Gladiator vs Civilians thing does not apply here. It was G1 only. These Decepticons won the war because they had much larger numbers. Plus they were led by a leader who was so evil he used The Fallen. Used him. What weak minded fool wouldn't follow him? Plus sheer numbers? Of course they won. You don't need brilliant strategy when you can just kill everything in your path due to numbers.
On Earth, there's billions of us. Plus the Autobots. Plus technology we made from Megatron. With all of that combined, no wonder the Autobots knew how to fight back against a small amount of Decepticons.
Autobot032 wrote:Not true. Megatron made Sentinel switch sides. Together they slaughtered almost an entire city full of people. That's more than a brief victory. That's a devastating record for the record books.
Autobot032 wrote:Wow. Condescending much? I know what Deus Ex Machina is. You're just pissed that I'm covering facts that you're unwilling to. I flew right in the face of your bias. There's no need to be rude. I wasn't rude to you or anyone else in this thread. And don't say things like "my friend". I don't know you. I'm not your friend. Don't condescend to me. I haven't done it to you.
dinojack86 wrote:Wow- so yeah it definitely is one-sided though I don't think there's a "movie" or "story" based explanation. I think it has more to do with dumbing down the mythology so the average movie-goer can understand. The robots were their characters in name-only. You could have switched most of them out with any other generic transformer and it would have worked just fine. Except for maybe Optimus and Megatron... Maybe.
I think they just tried to show how heroic the Autobots are and show that the Decepticons were really nothing more in these films than target-practice. Just part of only having 3 films to tell a story (in Michael Bay's case) so you figure there will be quite a few deaths without much characterization. It also has to do with portraying the transformers as more of a giant robot monter that fights other giant robot monsters; some good, some evil.
Autobot032 wrote:
I'd say the humans have had tremendous impact on the Autobots and the Decepticons, and their numbers should be counted.
Optimus Primevil wrote:and while we're at it, why can't the cons have a decent strike force/special ops team like the bots have? the mayhem attack squad, the heavy brigade, the dreads look pitiful compared to the wreckers and the pack
dirk2243 wrote:Optimus Primevil wrote:and while we're at it, why can't the cons have a decent strike force/special ops team like the bots have? the mayhem attack squad, the heavy brigade, the dreads look pitiful compared to the wreckers and the pack
Yes..... I was hopeing for a wreckers vs dreads scene. The wreckers came on all bad azz, even "somehow" outrunning 3 autobot high performance cars on a straight away, but did very little other then die pretty cool.
Decepticon_Vandal wrote:dirk2243 wrote:Optimus Primevil wrote:and while we're at it, why can't the cons have a decent strike force/special ops team like the bots have? the mayhem attack squad, the heavy brigade, the dreads look pitiful compared to the wreckers and the pack
Yes..... I was hopeing for a wreckers vs dreads scene. The wreckers came on all bad azz, even "somehow" outrunning 3 autobot high performance cars on a straight away, but did very little other then die pretty cool.
The 'cons have all these anonymous throw-aways just for the sole purpose of being brutally killed, no matter how cool they may seem at first. Why can't the Autobots also have faceless "red-shirts" to be fodder for the Decepticons? I'm just asking for a fair fight is all.
Slashercon wrote:--Decepticons--
-Megatron-
K: 2 (Jazz, Optimus Prime)
D: 2 (Sam Witwicky; resurrected, Optimus Prime)
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