Alec wrote:Cthulhunicron wrote:blades180 wrote: Please give me an example from the movies where an evil character changes his ways and is forgiven.
Wheelie from ROTF but I don't really think that counts lol
Jetfire probably should though.
Alec wrote:Cthulhunicron wrote:blades180 wrote: Please give me an example from the movies where an evil character changes his ways and is forgiven.
Wheelie from ROTF but I don't really think that counts lol
the autobots are an impossible ideal for humanity, the decepticons are the grim reality !
Tekka wrote:Yeah. That's right.
OptiMagnus wrote:One scene in DOTM spoke to me: When Carly faced Megatron.
Megatron could have easily figured out the "tiny flesh creature" was trying to mess with his brain to get him to fight Sentinel so they'd destroy each other, but greed and his obsession with power and control made him gullible and susceptible to being convinced to do anything to stop something from taking power from him. If he had just dismissed Carly, Optimus Prime could've been killed at the hands of Sentinel Prime, and Megatron would've saved his own life.
It just shows how warped you can become when you embrace greed. I think it's very true that it can consume your brain.
I believe someone touched upon this already, but it's something I just realized. Optimus Prime isn't just a fictional robot who changes into a truck. He is what many humans wish our race was. And he's never changed in over 25 years. He is the opposite of the humans in Avatar: he lands on a new planet and dedicates his life to defending the planet he barely knows. "But Prime has changed...badly. These horrid corrupted movies show him as a ruthless killer." Here's where the Decepticons come in. They're a symbol of all of humanity's imperfections: greed, hunger for power, betrayal and deceit, selfishness, dishonesty, ruthlessness, cowardice, control. The Autobots, by killing the Decepticons, are symbolically eradicating those imperfections and triumphing with the good elements. It's quite interesting
Cheesinator wrote:Decepticons are the aggressors, sure. From the human perspective, they definitely deserved to be wiped out.
Starscream GaGa wrote:Apparently the Autobots are just too stupid to realize this.
Starscream GaGa wrote:I'd like to remind everyone again that it was Optimus who ejected the AllSpark and brought the species on the brink of extinction. Apparently the Autobots are just too stupid to realize this.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Starscream GaGa wrote:Megatron is supposed to be the villain. What I'm saying is that Optimus blurred that line when he decided to murder a non-aggressive Megatron who was offering a truce.
And if you think death is the only solution to any problem, there is serious morality issues going on.
SlyTF1 wrote:Name one time where violence isn't the answer.
SlyTF1 wrote:Name one time where violence isn't the answer.
Starscream GaGa wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:Name one time where violence isn't the answer.
What? You mean... Like a truce?
Autobot032 wrote:I don't agree with Sly on this, at all.
That being said, it wasn't a real truce. Megatron offered a truce with this important note: He'd be leader of them all. On this planet.
That's not a truce, that's a violent dictatorship that could take over the world.
I don't understand why you can't get that. I really don't.
Starscream GaGa wrote: Megatron is supposed to be the villain..
Starscream GaGa wrote:What I'm saying is that Optimus blurred that line when he decided to murder a non-aggressive Megatron who was offering a truce.
Starscream GaGa wrote:Autobot032 wrote:I don't agree with Sly on this, at all.
That being said, it wasn't a real truce. Megatron offered a truce with this important note: He'd be leader of them all. On this planet.
That's not a truce, that's a violent dictatorship that could take over the world.
I don't understand why you can't get that. I really don't.
You HAVE to use the novel as evidence of this, seeing as it really feels like random lines were cut and pasted all over that scene. In the novel the truce was real, this is as much evidence that it was real as was present int he movie suggesting it wasn't. Besides, he said he wanted to keep his command, whose to say he wasn't talking about a joint dictatorship?
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
SlyTF1 wrote:Starscream GaGa wrote:Megatron is supposed to be the villain. What I'm saying is that Optimus blurred that line when he decided to murder a non-aggressive Megatron who was offering a truce.
And if you think death is the only solution to any problem, there is serious morality issues going on.
Name one time where violence isn't the answer.
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:Starscream GaGa wrote:Megatron is supposed to be the villain. What I'm saying is that Optimus blurred that line when he decided to murder a non-aggressive Megatron who was offering a truce.
And if you think death is the only solution to any problem, there is serious morality issues going on.
Name one time where violence isn't the answer.
That statement drips so much ignorance it forms a pool below...
The Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's. hell, any *BLEEP*ing time you have a disagreement with a friend.
Moving on...
Prime had no reason to trust Megatron after seeing him betray and shoot his own partner in the back. Again. No. Reason.
Starscream GaGa wrote:You're putting Optimus on a pedestal he did not earn. Cowardice is attacking those from behind, those unprepared, those offering truces, those defenseless and begging for mercy, all of which Optimus has done throughout DOTM. Optimus showed that he had lacked the ability to not be the "primitive and violent race" that Ironhide had called the humans. Optimus never grew up.
A true hero would have talked to Megatron like he did in the novel and comic and found a way to end the war and let Megatron save his home. Megatron was violent and ruthless, but DOTM showed that all he truly wanted was to save his planet, not to dominate the world. Did Megatron say "Finally, I will rule this world!" when he saw Cybertron? No, he said "Finally, my planet is saved". He was looking out for Cybertron primarily, while Optimus had just forsaken his planet, making the war and all the deaths from the war sort of pointless.
OptiMagnus wrote:So, you are dismissing everything that Megatron did throughout movies 1-3 up to the offering of the truce, where you also dismiss that he wishes to keep his command. So you are saying Optimus Prime should drop his weapons and trust Megatron this ONE time, help Megatron to his feet, and then as he turns around he risks getting shot in the back? Hell, Megatron would've kept Optimus as a caged pet if he rebuilt Cybertron. And how does he not see Sentinel as a threat to command when Sentinel even said that Cybertron would be his to rule? Yes, Megatron wanted to save Cybertron, but he kept in mind himself as its ruler. Plus, he wished to use human slave labor to help rebuild it. Let's say in the future humans discover a planet of intelligent but more primitive beings, and develop technology to travel there regularly. Then, Earth's military superpowers start a war over possession of large country that results in Earth's end. Then, the side that sparked the war decides to use the species of the other planet as slaves. Is that justifiable? The Autobots just landed on Earth and decided to accept it as home. They could have easily taken advantage of the humans and killed them all to have Earth to themselves.
Starscream GaGa wrote: OK. Let's be friggin' honest here. In a real-life situation Optimus would have no followers. Regardless of who sparked the war, everyone would've turned coat the moment Optimus ejected the species SOURCE OF LIFE from the planet. It's like if a country's leader decided that, in order to stop an evil dictator from taking command, decided to sterilize every human being on the planet and then create a haze to destroy the environment as well...
Starscream GaGa wrote:If Earth was destroyed and we did find a planet of sentient, smaller life-forms we totally would use them as slaves to rebuild our planet. All you have to do is look at mankind's history to know that's a fact..
Starscream GaGa wrote:But, alas, Optimus does have followers in the movie, just to drive home this is a fantasy setting. It's fictional. Optimus damn well could've forgiven Megatron and it would've been just as realistic or unrealistic as every other scene in the movie.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum
Registered users: Bing [Bot], Glyph, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Immortal Starscream, JazZeke, Killjoy, Majestic-12 [Bot], Optimus Eeyore, Sabrblade, triKlops, Yahoo [Bot]