The Energon Pub

[megatronus]

Really? Because I started rolling my eyes when they killed off Dreadwing, a marvelous character who should have lived. Besides, plenty of Autobot deaths are implied or stated, just not on camera: Alpha Trion, Sea Spray, Impactor...

Actually Sea Spray's fate is unknown right now.

???

[PrymeStriker]

Really? Because I started rolling my eyes when they killed off Dreadwing, a marvelous character who should have lived. Besides, plenty of Autobot deaths are implied or stated, just not on camera: Alpha Trion, Sea Spray, Impactor...

I'm talking about meaningful Autobot deaths, not those nobodies that are mentioned once. Who cares about them?

I really don't like repeating myself, folks, and it seems I've been doing it a lot lately when I'm making my points abundantly clear. I want them to kill an MAIN AUTOBOT for the purpose of showing WAR isn't full of optimism and miracles. The DECEPTICONS get all of the sticks in the rear and is making the "dark and dramatic" series a joke. This episode was the perfect opportunity because the final battle is nearing and the Autobots would have that in their heads and take the rage to the battlefield. They ruined their chance. The writers are a bunch of wusses when it comes to this.

Killing characters for the sake of killing characters is dumb, and bad storytelling. Killing characters for a purpose is another matter entirely.

Which is a point I made in one of my many posts about this.

Cliffjumper was killed to set the tone of the series,

Which did NOT last.

As we saw, Skyquake's death was largely unnecessary. Breakdown's death was a result of very predictable Decepticon infighting, and allowed the writers to tie up the Mech cub-arch. You can argue that Dreadwing's death was a necessary consequence of his honor, but c'mon! Starscream deserved death over Dreadwing.

I'm tired of Deceptijoke deaths too; which is another point I made previously.

The fact that we've gotten to a point where there is no continuous reset button a la the first season is a good thing.

Not when the reset button is for the miracle pull throughs of the Autobots....

Four episodes, Bulkhead!!! Nobody heals that fast!

I think rebranding the series as Beast Hunters is lame,

I'm disappointed with this season's writing, not the rebranding.

Go read Game of Thrones if you want main characters killed off, but this is a kids show, albeit a dark one, and you should expect the show's conventions (good guys, as a rule, live) to follow accordingly.

Yeah, because no other main good guys have died in a kids show before, let alone Transformers...

G1 Ratchet
G1 Ironhide
G1 Brawn
G1 Prowl
G1 Ultra Magnus
Animated Prowl
BW Airrazor
BW Dinobot
BW Tigertron
BW Depth Charge
BW Optimus Primal
Optimus Prime....every time.

[njb902]

Really? Because I started rolling my eyes when they killed off Dreadwing, a marvelous character who should have lived. Besides, plenty of Autobot deaths are implied or stated, just not on camera: Alpha Trion, Sea Spray, Impactor...

Actually Sea Spray's fate is unknown right now.

???

He means that it could have been a decoy to lure autobots in.

[Sabrblade]

Really? Because I started rolling my eyes when they killed off Dreadwing, a marvelous character who should have lived. Besides, plenty of Autobot deaths are implied or stated, just not on camera: Alpha Trion, Sea Spray, Impactor...

Actually Sea Spray's fate is unknown right now.

???

The TF: Prime panel at SDCC had them mention that they wanted Seaspray to appear in season 3, revealing that he had jettisoned his ship at the last minute. Sadly, he didn't get to appear, but since they mentioned the possibility of him still being alive, it all depends on how canonical one treats Authorial Intent.

[PrymeStriker]

And neither Beast Wars nor Animated made it a habit of killing off characters just for the sake of it.

Beast Wars did it mostly as a necessity to move old toys out of the way for new ones, and because each season finale operated under a "kill'em all, let Hasbro sort'em out" mindset since it wasn't known if they'd be able to come back for another season. Though, as this wasn't particularly the case for season 3's finale, those deaths happened because A) it was the end of the story and B) Simon Furman is a nutball when it comes to killing off characters en masse.

For Animated, only Prowl, Starscream, and Yoketron died and the first two had reached the ends of their stories for the series (though, neither would have stayed dead had the show continued), and Yoketron was already in his elder years, so he'd be an easy kill with the right kind of attack (i.e. - catching him off guard).

Oh, and Ratbat, but he was barely a character at all.

This is the end of the series, not season 1. How would Ratchet dying here be unlike any of the end-of-series deaths from Beast Wars and Animated?

[megatronus]

I'm talking about meaningful Autobot deaths, not those nobodies that are mentioned once. Who cares about them?

I kind of do. It emphasizes the scarcity of Autobots in the universe, and the losses they have had to endure.

I really don't like repeating myself, folks, and it seems I've been doing it a lot lately when I'm making my points abundantly clear.

Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

I want them to kill an MAIN AUTOBOT for the purpose of showing WAR isn't full of optimism and miracles. The DECEPTICONS get all of the sticks in the rear and is making the "dark and dramatic" series a joke. This episode was the perfect opportunity because the final battle is nearing and the Autobots would have that in their heads and take the rage to the battlefield. They ruined their chance.

I'm not sure how optimistic they've been... the only "miracle" thus far has been Optimus' resurgence. I'm not sure to what else you refer insofar as Beast Hunters goes, but they definitely weren't going to kill of Optimus. They tried it in G1... and it didn't go over so well.

The writers are a bunch of wusses when it comes to this.

Who says it's the writers? Could be Hasbro calling the shots.

Killing characters for the sake of killing characters is dumb, and bad storytelling. Killing characters for a purpose is another matter entirely.

Which is a point I made in one of my many posts about this.

Repeat: Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

I'm tired of Deceptijoke deaths too; which is another point I made previously.

Repeat^2: Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

Four episodes, Bulkhead!!! Nobody heals that fast!

Wolverine? If you're not willing to suspend belief when it comes to alien robots for which we have no physiological knowledge, you just might be taking the show a bit seriously.

Yeah, because no other main good guys have died in a kids show before, let alone Transformers...

G1 Ratchet
G1 Ironhide
G1 Brawn
G1 Prowl
G1 Ultra Magnus
Animated Prowl
BW Airrazor
BW Dinobot
BW Tigertron
BW Depth Charge
BW Optimus Primal
Optimus Prime....every time.

G1 isn't a fair comparison. They got away with saying "Sh!t" in that movie. Standards were different, and there was blowback due to cartoon violence and death.

Animated isn't fair either - especially if it's JUST Prowl, and it his death served a greater purpose (saving everyone) that effectively ended the entire series.

Beast Wars, on the other hand... was just awesome

[VirusCarnage]

Really? Because I started rolling my eyes when they killed off Dreadwing, a marvelous character who should have lived. Besides, plenty of Autobot deaths are implied or stated, just not on camera: Alpha Trion, Sea Spray, Impactor...

Actually Sea Spray's fate is unknown right now.

???

The TF: Prime panel at SDCC had them mention that they wanted Seaspray to appear in season 3, revealing that he had jettisoned his ship at the last minute. Sadly, he didn't get to appear, but since they mentioned the possibility of him still being alive, it all depends on how canonical one treats Authorial Intent.

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

In other news for some reason I didn't get an e-mail about activity on this thread.

[megatronus]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

[VirusCarnage]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

Indeed, they also said that Beast Hunters was one of the many ideas they had for season 3 which I am very curious about but they did not say.

[Sabrblade]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

From my own SDCC report:

They were going to reveal that he actually wasn't dead, having jettisoned his ship at the last moment, and have him portrayed a lot like the character of Quint from the Jaws movie, and like Batman with a nautical whistle that would strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. A gritty, hardcore Wrecker. But alas, it never happened.

[VirusCarnage]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

From my own SDCC report:

They were going to reveal that he actually wasn't dead, having jettisoned his ship at the last moment, and have him portrayed a lot like the character of Quint from the Jaws movie, and like Batman with a nautical whistle that would strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. A gritty, hardcore Wrecker. But alas, it never happened.

Wait, you were at SDCC?

[megatronus]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

From my own SDCC report:

They were going to reveal that he actually wasn't dead, having jettisoned his ship at the last moment, and have him portrayed a lot like the character of Quint from the Jaws movie, and like Batman with a nautical whistle that would strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. A gritty, hardcore Wrecker. But alas, it never happened.

Alas.

[Sabrblade]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

From my own SDCC report:

They were going to reveal that he actually wasn't dead, having jettisoned his ship at the last moment, and have him portrayed a lot like the character of Quint from the Jaws movie, and like Batman with a nautical whistle that would strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. A gritty, hardcore Wrecker. But alas, it never happened.

Wait, you were at SDCC?

Sadly, no.

I used this video and other reports to type up my own report for Unicron.com.

[PrymeStriker]

Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

You could at least read part of the post your quoting.

I'm not sure how optimistic they've been... the only "miracle" thus far has been Optimus' resurgence. I'm not sure to what else you refer insofar as Beast Hunters goes, but they definitely weren't going to kill of Optimus. They tried it in G1... and it didn't go over so well.

Bulkhead recovers from a paralyzing shot in the spine within four episodes
Wheeljack (and friends) survive EVERY plane crash without a scratch (you'd think by now at least Wheeljack or the Jackhammer had worn down by now)
Arcee gets shot and stabbed in the abdomen and recovers quickly.
Optimus Prime survives a building exploding on him (not the re-forging, but just being alive after that)

Wolverine? If you're not willing to suspend belief when it comes to alien robots for which we have no physiological knowledge, you just might be taking the show a bit seriously.

Bulkhead's not a super hero. He's a 'bot just like everyone else, and just like everyone else in this series, their mortality is different from other series. It's the reason Cliffjumper and Tailgate died from being stabbed once each. Bulkhead was shot square in the back by the toughest Insecticon and recovers that quickly. I don't care about fictional time lapse; you can focus on other plot lines while Bulkhead's in a coma.

G1 isn't a fair comparison. They got away with saying "Sh!t" in that movie. Standards were different, and there was blowback due to what was perceived as violence and death.

That seems like a lame cop-out to me.

Ultra Magnus permanently died by Sixshot (best G1 'con ever) in the Headmasters cartoon: that's what I'm talking about.

Animated isn't fair either - especially if it's JUST Prowl, and it his death served a greater purpose (saving everyone) that effectively ended the entire series.

Why not? Prowl was an end-of-series death; so would Ratchet have if they hadn't dropped the ball here.

Beast Wars, on the other hand... was just awesome

And they killed a good deal of main Maximal characters, each had some sort of drama or purpose. Prime can't do that: why not?

[Sabrblade]

Beast Wars, on the other hand... was just awesome

And they killed a good deal of main Maximal characters, each had some sort of drama or purpose. Prime can't do that: why not?

The only meaningful, dramatic deaths Beast Wars ever had were Optimus Primal's in "Other Voices" and Dinobot's in "Code of Hero". Other characters just got swept under the rug with little to no real emotion just to make room for new toys.

[VirusCarnage]

Yes as Sabrblade explained they revealed some information about their original plans for Sea Spray at SDCC.

THAT is awesome.

From my own SDCC report:

They were going to reveal that he actually wasn't dead, having jettisoned his ship at the last moment, and have him portrayed a lot like the character of Quint from the Jaws movie, and like Batman with a nautical whistle that would strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. A gritty, hardcore Wrecker. But alas, it never happened.

Wait, you were at SDCC?

Sadly, no.

I used this video and other reports to type up my own report for Unicron.com.

Ah ok the way you worded it almost made it sound like you were. Site admin at Unicron.com, Nice.

[PrymeStriker]

Beast Wars, on the other hand... was just awesome

And they killed a good deal of main Maximal characters, each had some sort of drama or purpose. Prime can't do that: why not?

The only meaningful, dramatic deaths Beast Wars ever had were Optimus Primal's in "Other Voices" and Dinobot's in "Code of Hero". Other characters just got swept under the rug with little to no real emotion just to make room for new toys.

And Tigatron, I felt.

Prime does not have one dramatic or meaningful death outside of Cliffjumper, that set a tone that didn't even last, which further proves my point.

[Burn]

I used this video and other reports to type up my own report for Unicron.com.

Traitor.

[megatronus]

Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

You could at least read part of the post your quoting.

I... did.

I'm not sure how optimistic they've been... the only "miracle" thus far has been Optimus' resurgence. I'm not sure to what else you refer insofar as Beast Hunters goes, but they definitely weren't going to kill of Optimus. They tried it in G1... and it didn't go over so well.

Bulkhead recovers from a paralyzing shot in the spine within four episodes
Wheeljack (and friends) survive EVERY plane crash without a scratch (you'd think by now at least Wheeljack or the Jackhammer had worn down by now)
Arcee gets shot and stabbed in the abdomen and recovers quickly.
Optimus Prime survives a building exploding on him (not the re-forging, but just being alive after that)

Four episodes spanning how long a time period?
Am I wrong in thinking the Jack Hammer IS worn down? It hash't been functional for quite a few episodes.
In which episode is Arcee stabbed?
I mean... Optimus Prime's endurance is legendary, and he basically died before the forge brought him back, so...

Wolverine? If you're not willing to suspend belief when it comes to alien robots for which we have no physiological knowledge, you just might be taking the show a bit seriously.

Bulkhead's not a super hero. He's a 'bot just like everyone else, and just like everyone else in this series, their mortality is different from other series. It's the reason Cliffjumper and Tailgate died from being stabbed once each. Bulkhead was shot square in the back by the toughest Insecticon and recovers that quickly. I don't care about fictional time lapse; you can focus on other plot lines while Bulkhead's in a coma.

You really should care about the fictional time lapse - that's the context behind your "four episodes" complaint. And Cliffjumper & Tailgate were not killed by stabs alone. Tailgate was held and tortured for an undisclosed period of time, and we don't know what else happened to him. Cliffjumper was at the center of a massive energon explosion, and was probably in critical condition by the time Starscream ended him. If Ratchet weren't on the other end of the ground bridge when Bulkhead collapsed, he would probably be dead too... which would have been to your liking, I imagine

G1 isn't a fair comparison. They got away with saying "Sh!t" in that movie. Standards were different, and there was blowback due to what was perceived as violence and death.

That seems like a lame cop-out to me.

Ultra Magnus permanently died by Sixshot (best G1 'con ever) in the Headmasters cartoon: that's what I'm talking about

Headmasters - now that seems like a lame copout to me. I agree that Sixshot was awesome, but the Japanese series are a whole other animal.

American G1, though, you have to look at through a different lens. The franchise was young, and they were basically winging it. There were no brand bibles, brand managers, etc. G1 just was. And the movie had some license to kill - especially in the context of delivering new characters & new toys. Hasbro has since realized that they don't necessarily need to kill characters to introduce new toys, so long as the toys are loosely linked to the show. Besides, Hasbro DID receive a lot of parent complaints when they killed Prime... one of many reasons they needed to bring him back.

Animated isn't fair either - especially if it's JUST Prowl, and it his death served a greater purpose (saving everyone) that effectively ended the entire series.

Why not? Prowl was an end-of-series death; so would Ratchet have if they hadn't dropped the ball here.

Self-sacrifice is somewhat different than straight killing the character off.

Beast Wars, on the other hand... was just awesome

And they killed a good deal of main Maximal characters, each had some sort of drama or purpose. Prime can't do that: why not?

See Sabrblade.

[VirusCarnage]

Optimus Prime survives a building exploding on him (not the re-forging, but just being alive after that)

Optimus Prime's endurance is legendary, and he basically died before the forge brought him back, so...

Not to mention that humans have survived buildings collapsing on them before.

[PrymeStriker]

Sorry I don't follow your posts fanatically...

You could at least read part of the post your quoting.

I... did.

Then why make the sarcastic remark on one of the points I made referring to not tracking my other posts when that very point was in the post you quoted?

Am I wrong in thinking the Jack Hammer IS worn down? It hash't been functional for quite a few episodes.

Pre-season 3...

In which episode is Arcee stabbed?

"Partners"

I mean... Optimus Prime's endurance is legendary, and he basically died before the forge brought him back, so...

That's Hasbro's fault, not the writers'. Just giving examples.

You really should care about the fictional time lapse - that's the context behind your "four episodes" complaint.

Everything that happened in those Four episodes did NOT require Bulkhead being awake. He could've been in a coma that whole time and the events would have played out similarly. Then, they could've brought him back later. That's the context of my complaint.

Headmasters - now that seems like a lame copout to me. I agree that Sixshot was awesome, but the Japanese series are a whole other animal.

A cartoon's a cartoon. Main characters can and will die regardless. The vocal profanity of a movie has nothing to do with a main character's death.

Self-sacrifice is somewhat different than straight killing the character off.

No, it's not. The writers are still killing him off. I never specified how Ratchet would die, so I fail to see how that validates.

See Sabrblade.

[/quote]

Sabrblade's post reinforced my point.

[Henry921]

Well, of the available Autobots to take a dirt nap, I agree with Pryme that Ratchet is most likely. He has something to atone for now, even if his assistance wasn't entirely voluntary.

This episode was another strong one. Predaking vs Megatron was way too short, but that's my only complaint: that the fight was a bit less awesome than it could've been.

I'm surprised by how much of Season 3 I've liked. Here's hoping the finale is just as good.

[Dead Metal]

The episode was OK, nothing special by Prime standards.

I wish the fight between Predaking and Megatron was longer, we hardly ever get to see Megatron in action, and man was it cool. I loved how angry Predaking got, and used a Vehicon as a club to beat Megatron in the face.

While I don't want any of the Autobots to die, well except Bumblebee, I do agree it's kinda boring and anti-climatic that they never do. I kinda want Wheeljack to sacrifice himself to save Ultra Magnus in the finale though, we've seen him warm up to him and that would be the ultimate way of Jacky showing his acceptance of Magnus.


That about Seaspray would have been cool, but maybe in the next show.

[Sabrblade]

Can't we all just agree that killing off Cliffjumper the way they did was a stupid way to set a tone that the show obviously wouldn't have been able to keep in the long run, instead of letting the story itself set the tone on its own without having to rely on a cheap shock gimmick?

[VirusCarnage]

Honestly I barely care about the lack of Autobots deaths and how they killed Cliffjumper to set a tone that they didn't necessarily keep. I have been enjoying the show so much that it simply doesn't even phase me, I think the last episode I really didn't like at all was in Season 1.