The Energon Pub

[Everyone]

It makes sense that Autobots value life as they live for millions of years. That's why it makes even more sense to get rid of the one doing all the killing!

[/quote]Yeah, but don't forget, Sly also wanted Vince dead just because that character was a bit of a snob. [/quote]
-about that, I wasn't referring to that bit, just in general terms really.

[Mizuno]

Killing is not necessarily evil. Sometimes it is a must. To stand by and watch someone go on a killing rampage when you have the power to stop them is evil. Think on Hitler people. Pacifists tried to appease Hitler to save their own skins, to maintain so called "peace" within their own territories- that kind of peace is temporary and a lie. As Martin Luther said, truth must come before peace. I respect the intentions of pacifists, but speaking as a former pacifist, I think they are truly mislead.

This is just a tv show. Obviously Optimus isn't killing main characters cuz there would be no know. Its not some huge moral choice, but rather writing to keep the story going to entertain people. If I were Jack I'd do the right thing and drill a nice large hole through Megatron's brain. But then the main Antagonist would be gone and that would suck.

killing is never a must IMHO. you can beat someone unconscious, lock them up for the rest of thier lifes, but killing? no, never a must.

as of jacks decision, I think he did the right thing. killing megs would not solve things in the end. esp. for him. after all jack would be the one who had to deal with killing someone who was defenseless for the rest of his life, as well as some other con (probably starscream) would just have taken lead of the decepticons, thus continuing the war anyway.
so in all, I guess jack made the right choise by sparing megatrons life.

[Everyone]

Ok, so if you were in WWII and a soldier, would you have tried to capture every nazi alive to imprison them during battle while your allies were being shot down. We would have lost the war and millions more would have been eradicated and ruled by a fascist regime. Sometimes killing is a must. Especially in war. Its not a good thing, but it must be done to preserve freedom.

As for Jack, if he had to sacrifice his own mental well-being for the sake of saving other people's lives, then I'd say its a noble trade-off. Killing Megatron would have, as Optimus put it, remove the head from the beast.

[SlyTF1]

Killing is not necessarily evil. Sometimes it is a must. To stand by and watch someone go on a killing rampage when you have the power to stop them is evil. Think on Hitler people. Pacifists tried to appease Hitler to save their own skins, to maintain so called "peace" within their own territories- that kind of peace is temporary and a lie. As Martin Luther said, truth must come before peace. I respect the intentions of pacifists, but speaking as a former pacifist, I think they are truly mislead.

This is just a tv show. Obviously Optimus isn't killing main characters cuz there would be no know. Its not some huge moral choice, but rather writing to keep the story going to entertain people. If I were Jack I'd do the right thing and drill a nice large hole through Megatron's brain. But then the main Antagonist would be gone and that would suck.

killing is never a must IMHO. you can beat someone unconscious, lock them up for the rest of thier lifes, but killing? no, never a must.

as of jacks decision, I think he did the right thing. killing megs would not solve things in the end. esp. for him. after all jack would be the one who had to deal with killing someone who was defenseless for the rest of his life, as well as some other con (probably starscream) would just have taken lead of the decepticons, thus continuing the war anyway.
so in all, I guess jack made the right choise by sparing megatrons life.

Have to deal with it? How? What's so bad about putting an end to tyranny? I would have taken that bastard out if given the chance, or at least ask to join the Decepticons.

[Sabrblade]

killing is never a must IMHO. you can beat someone unconscious, lock them up for the rest of thier lifes, but killing? no, never a must.

as of jacks decision, I think he did the right thing. killing megs would not solve things in the end. esp. for him. after all jack would be the one who had to deal with killing someone who was defenseless for the rest of his life, as well as some other con (probably starscream) would just have taken lead of the decepticons, thus continuing the war anyway.
so in all, I guess jack made the right choise by sparing megatrons life.

Have to deal with it? How? What's so bad about putting an end to tyranny? I would have taken that bastard out if given the chance, or at least ask to join the Decepticons.

Look at Arcee in the latest episode. Look at how awful she felt about having wanted so badly to kill Starscream and Airachnid. She could never live with herself had she gone through with it.

It doesn't matter how evil one is. If you kill, period, you've crossed a line and carved mark of guilt on yourself that can never erased. You would have to live with the fact that you stole the life of another person for the rest of your life. In the end, all it proves is that you've become the very monster that you tried to destroy.

Can you honestly say that you would feel no inner repercussions about killing someone if you thought it was a good idea? Have you no conscience, or even a heart?

In Jack's case, do you really think he personally would have been better off had he killed Megs? He'd most likely become Decepticon Target Number One, with all Cons loyal to Megatron trying to hunt him down and kill him to avenge their fallen leader. And should Megatron himself ever be revived, he no doubt would have likely gone after Jack too. Jack's life would no longer be safe in the hands of the Autobots, as his actions would put himself and everyone he cares about in jeopardy.

[SlyTF1]

killing is never a must IMHO. you can beat someone unconscious, lock them up for the rest of thier lifes, but killing? no, never a must.

as of jacks decision, I think he did the right thing. killing megs would not solve things in the end. esp. for him. after all jack would be the one who had to deal with killing someone who was defenseless for the rest of his life, as well as some other con (probably starscream) would just have taken lead of the decepticons, thus continuing the war anyway.
so in all, I guess jack made the right choise by sparing megatrons life.

Have to deal with it? How? What's so bad about putting an end to tyranny? I would have taken that bastard out if given the chance, or at least ask to join the Decepticons.

Look at Arcee in the latest episode. Look at how awful she felt about having wanted so badly to kill Starscream and Airachnid. She could never live with herself had she gone through with it.

It doesn't matter how evil one is. If you kill, period, you've crossed a line and carved mark of guilt on yourself that can never erased. You would have to live with the fact that you stole the life of another person for the rest of your life. In the end, all it proves is that you've become the very monster that you tried to destroy.

Can you honestly say that you would feel no inner repercussions about killing someone if you thought it was a good idea? Have you no conscience, or even a heart?

In Jack's case, do you really think he personally would have been better off had he killed Megs? He'd most likely become Decepticon Target Number One, with all Cons loyal to Megatron trying to hunt him down and kill him to avenge their fallen leader. And should Megatron himself ever be revived, he no doubt would have likely gone after Jack too. Jack's life would no longer be safe in the hands of the Autobots, as his actions would put himself and everyone he cares about in jeopardy.

I would, but I'm pretty sure I'd get over it eventually. And I'd understand that it was for the better.

[Sabrblade]

I would, but I'm pretty sure I'd get over it eventually. And I'd understand that it was for the better.

But why not go with the method that both accomplishes the mission AND comes with no inner turmoil at all?

[Scourgescream]

If you had been given the chance to kill Hitler just before the war and thus save all the lives of the soldiers on both sides and all the innocents lives as well, you would have just walked away? by extension their blood would be on your hands. To put your own conscience above the lives of all those that would be lost isn't noble, it's selfish!

[SlyTF1]

I would, but I'm pretty sure I'd get over it eventually. And I'd understand that it was for the better.

But why not go with the method that both accomplishes the mission AND comes with no inner turmoil at all?

Because countless other lives will be lost, and then you'll feel emotional trauma for that because you knew you could have ended it before everyone else died. 1000s oflives =/= one life and your sanity.

[Sabrblade]

If you had been given the chance to kill Hitler just before the war and thus save all the lives of the soldiers on both sides and all the innocents lives as well, you would have just walked away? by extension their blood would be on your hands. To put your own conscience above the lives of all those that would be lost isn't noble, it's selfish!

Why kill him when he could be knocked out, captured, imprisoned, and stripped from all his political power? He did a lot of immoral things even before he started the war. Those crimes would be enough to convict him for good. He can't instigate a war if he has no power. He'd instead rot in prison.

Besides, if I killed him, someone else loyal to him would likely rise to the same power and start the war in his honor anyway. Plus, I'd be their number one target too.

I would, but I'm pretty sure I'd get over it eventually. And I'd understand that it was for the better.

But why not go with the method that both accomplishes the mission AND comes with no inner turmoil at all?

Because countless other lives will be lost, and then you'll feel emotional trauma for that because you knew you could have ended it before everyone else died. 1000s oflives =/= one life and your sanity.

And how many lives have been lost in the show due to Optimus' actions alone? Optimus had no hand in preventing Cliffjumper's or Tailgate's deaths.

[Mizuno]

If you had been given the chance to kill Hitler just before the war and thus save all the lives of the soldiers on both sides and all the innocents lives as well, you would have just walked away? by extension their blood would be on your hands. To put your own conscience above the lives of all those that would be lost isn't noble, it's selfish!

Why kill him when he could be knocked out, captured, imprisoned, and stripped from all his political power? He did a lot of immoral things even before he started the war. Those crimes would be enough to convict him for good. He can't instigate a war if he has no power. He'd instead rot in prison.

Besides, if I killed him, someone else loyal to him would likely rise to the same power and start the war in his honor anyway. Plus, I'd be their number one target too.

just what I would have said. my great aunt was in auschwitz and had to see her mother die by the hands of the nazis, still killing solves no ones problems. I'm a pacifist at heart, and I believe redemption is far worse than killing. Making one see his (un)doings and feeling even remorse is a far better revenge than simple killing.

Ok, so if you were in WWII and a soldier, would you have tried to capture every nazi alive to imprison them during battle while your allies were being shot down. We would have lost the war and millions more would have been eradicated and ruled by a fascist regime. Sometimes killing is a must. Especially in war. Its not a good thing, but it must be done to preserve freedom.

As for Jack, if he had to sacrifice his own mental well-being for the sake of saving other people's lives, then I'd say its a noble trade-off. Killing Megatron would have, as Optimus put it, remove the head from the beast.

a war siuation is different if someones putting a gun to your head and its shoot or be shot, you have no choice as of dieing or killing.
but killing a trapped deffenseless person (even a tyrant at that) is very different from this situation. IMHO its wrong to do so. I can say for my part I wouln't be able to live with that, so might as well make the whole cave come down on both of us (me and megs, If I were in this situation and choose to kill him, which I would never do XD)

[DJ1107]

So it's okay for Arcee and Bulkhead to kill MECH guys and face-less crony as well as 2 one shot con's but when guy's like Starscream pop up everyone all of a sudden has morals. -sigh- I can understand Optimus quest for peace but the way I see it killing Megatron is the only way to end the war. Lets face it Cybertron is pretty much dead Autobots are in the few so who is the hierarchy to judge Megatron for his crimes? I'm not going to bitch about Jack not killing Megatron because frankly he's a kid he wouldn't be able to handle it that plus his bigger priority was to get out and report to the Autobots. speaking of which how come no one gave the kids and June communicator for event such as that?

[Sabrblade]

So it's okay for Arcee and Bulkhead to kill MECH guys and face-less crony as well as 2 one shot con's but when guy's like Starscream pop up everyone all of a sudden has morals. -sigh-

I was never fine with them offing those MECH soldiers. Optimus did tell them to use non-lethal force. I'd imagine they got reprimanded for their rashness later off screen. Plus, in their second encounter with MECH, it was only Breakdown, not Bulkhead, who used lethal force.

As for the Vehicons, they aren't persons. They're drones programmed with limited sentience. Their minds are more like that of AI systems. They aren't alive.

Makeshift was never confirmed dead. He's just out of commission for now until the writers decide to use him again. They admitted to bringing him in too soon and are opting to not use him again until a more appropriate occasion.

And I was never comfortable with them offing Skyquake either. I did not want him gone as he seemed too interesting to remove.

I can understand Optimus quest for peace but the way I see it killing Megatron is the only way to end the war.

If Megatron is killed, his followers will avenge his death. Optimus will become targeted and will either wind up killing more Cons or being killed himself. If he's killed, another Bot may want to avenge him and would go after his killer, or be killed in the process himself. And should he kill Optimus' killer, that Con might be avenged as well. Killing just leads to more killing. It's a never ending process of death and vengeance.

Lets face it Cybertron is pretty much dead Autobots are in the few so who is the hierarchy to judge Megatron for his crimes?

Alpha Trion still has authority. As does Optimus Prime himself.

Think about it. How interesting would it be to see Optimus presiding the trial of his own former best friend? We'd get to see his internal struggle between wanting to save his old friend and wanting to abide by Cybertronian laws and ethics. Such depth would do wonders to this version of Optimus, who's frankly still pretty bland as a character.

speaking of which how come no one gave the kids and June communicator for event such as that?

I guess they assumed that their cellphones would be enough, since the bots can communicate with them via comm link.

[DJ1107]

Really? The con's would avenge their leader? Could've fooled me those guys took their sweet f-ing time plus the only ones that seem to be loyal is Soundwave and he's done s$%t to avenge Megatron from the Bot's or Screamer. I mean with Knockout and Breakdown there loyalties are questionable Airacnids a bitch out for herself so no way she avenge Megatron. Also Bulkhead saving Breakdown I don't know he was smaking around guys who could've died from a concussion. And we don't even know if Alpha Trion is still alive so my point still stands.

[Sabrblade]

Really? The con's would avenge their leader? Could've fooled me those guys took their sweet f-ing time plus the only ones that seem to be loyal is Soundwave and he's done s$%t to avenge Megatron from the Bot's or Screamer.

Cuz he knew Megs wasn't dead?

[Mizuno]

Really? The con's would avenge their leader? Could've fooled me those guys took their sweet f-ing time plus the only ones that seem to be loyal is Soundwave and he's done s$%t to avenge Megatron from the Bot's or Screamer. I mean with Knockout and Breakdown there loyalties are questionable Airacnids a bitch out for herself so no way she avenge Megatron. Also Bulkhead saving Breakdown I don't know he was smaking around guys who could've died from a concussion. And we don't even know if Alpha Trion is still alive so my point still stands.

I can understand Optimus quest for peace but the way I see it killing Megatron is the only way to end the war.

If Megatron is killed, his followers will avenge his death. Optimus will become targeted and will either wind up killing more Cons or being killed himself. If he's killed, another Bot may want to avenge him and would go after his killer, or be killed in the process himself. And should he kill Optimus' killer, that Con might be avenged as well. Killing just leads to more killing. It's a never ending process of death and vengeance.

this point still stands too. after all hes right. killing only leads to more killing. be it revenge or if there is in internal struggle for power.
let me give you an example: starscream (after megs death) wanted to take control of the cons, now I guess there are a few who ARE in fact loyal to megatron himself and would see screamer leading with.... less intusiasm.... I bet they would fight him, thus creating another faction perhaps? bam. more war, now with a third party for the autobots....
so I guess, sabrblade is abolutly right when he says killing only leads to more killing.

you have to break out of the circle if you really wanted peace. peace can not be achived by brutal force it has to be accepted by all sides, not only one. someone have to want peace if its ever going to last.

[DJ1107]

With this new villain showing up I really hope it's not Unicron because that be stupid and the show now is trying to piss me off. I hope it Dreadwing because if we establish anything in the fanbase it's that picking up a long forgotten character and turning him/her into a large enough threat makes for an interesting story. Thunderwing anyone?

[Sabrblade]

With this new villain showing up I really hope it's not Unicron because that be stupid and the show now is trying to piss me off. I hope it Dreadwing because if we establish anything in the fanbase it's that picking up a long forgotten character and turning him/her into a large enough threat makes for an interesting story. Thunderwing anyone?

I suggested the Liege Maximo in the other thread. There's good evidence in that video for him as there is for Unicron.

Though, to see if it is or isn't Dreadwing, we must ask ourselves this. Is that Tony Todd's voice? I myself can't tell.

[NiteStar]

I saw the last episode. I hope the ending of this episode will segue into Starscream creating his own army of Comabticons and or whatever version of renegade team the writers want to conjure up. Just not cloned seekers I hope. Its been done and wasnt done well I might add.
And now let me guess.... another 2 month break?
phshhh.....their so dumb

[Dead Metal]

If you had been given the chance to kill Hitler just before the war and thus save all the lives of the soldiers on both sides and all the innocents lives as well, you would have just walked away? by extension their blood would be on your hands. To put your own conscience above the lives of all those that would be lost isn't noble, it's selfish!

Why kill him when he could be knocked out, captured, imprisoned, and stripped from all his political power? He did a lot of immoral things even before he started the war. Those crimes would be enough to convict him for good. He can't instigate a war if he has no power. He'd instead rot in prison.

Besides, if I killed him, someone else loyal to him would likely rise to the same power and start the war in his honor anyway. Plus, I'd be their number one target too.

They tried that, and the guy in power before him hated him with a passion, while in prison he wrote "Mein Kampf", which won him enough sympathy that once he was released from prison it found him wealthy people in power to support him. But if you're talking about Hitler after he was "elected", how would you want to strip him from all his political power, if he's the guy who made the rules?

I believe Jack didn't kill Megatron, because deep down inside he heard his inner General "It's a trap" Akbak. Megatron had enough space to move his hand to his opening of the tunnel, he could have possibly killed Jack after letting him get into range.

[Zequem]

I don't think Starscream will create anyone for his own army. I haven't read Exodus (yet) but what I've heard about it, it already has Constructicons and Combaticons. So, if Starscream wants his own army, he just needs to call his buddies to Cybertron. Personally I would like to see something new, so no Combaticons or Seekers (even though they would be awesome). New characters or characters that haven't been used much would be a good start.

By the way, does anyone have any clue when the next episode is going to air?

[SlyTF1]

I don't think Starscream will create anyone for his own army. I haven't read Exodus (yet) but what I've heard about it, it already has Constructicons and Combaticons. So, if Starscream wants his own army, he just needs to call his buddies to Cybertron. Personally I would like to see something new, so no Combaticons or Seekers (even though they would be awesome). New characters or characters that haven't been used much would be a good start.

By the way, does anyone have any clue when the next episode is going to air?

November something.

[Sabrblade]

By the way, does anyone have any clue when the next episode is going to air?

November something.

That's when season 2 airs, which begins with episode 27. Episode 21's airdate, however, is not yet known.

[SlyTF1]

By the way, does anyone have any clue when the next episode is going to air?

November something.

That's when season 2 airs, which begins with episode 27. Episode 21's airdate, however, is not yet known.

Oh, I thought the next episode was in season 2.

[Sabrblade]

By the way, does anyone have any clue when the next episode is going to air?

November something.

That's when season 2 airs, which begins with episode 27. Episode 21's airdate, however, is not yet known.

Oh, I thought the next episode was in season 2.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Bumblebee just faked being hit by it. Also, Partners is the last episode in Season 1.

Did you just copy that from TFWiki? Dude, that Season 2 section is a placeholder for when the Season 2 eps start airing. It was already confirmed that Season 1 has 26 episodes.

The season is currently set for another 26 episodes to follow the first 26 episodes of season 1.