Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
That depends on how you look at it. Commercially and financially, the Bay movies have been a total boon for the franchise. Just think, how many more new things we have as a result of the cash Hasbro raked in? I doubt that Generations and Combiner Wars would be where they are if it wasn't for the success of the movie toys and other merchandise associated with the films. I'm not saying they wouldn't have happened, but perhaps they wouldn't have happened as soon or to the extent they did. So from that POV, I disagree. The live movie franchise was a huge positive for the somewhat stagnant franchise. Children got into it, and some older fans got back into it. It definitely breathed life into the franchise, and lined Hasbro's coffers, which, just like with any other business, is the bottom line.Ironhidensh wrote:I find the movies to be less and less enjoyable. My fan love has worn off, and the flaws really stand out too me. I now think that they damaged the franchise more than helped it.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Noideaforaname wrote:pre-'07 = wasn't into Transformers, just had vague memories of Beast Wars and some toys
'07 Movie = EPIC OHMYGAWD
'07 Movie rewatch = hmm, that was kinda hollow actually
RotF = EPIC OHMYGAWD... but there were some flaws. Probably because of that writers strike thing
**then joins fan sites, (re)discovers BW and Animated, has fun with NEST/HftD, all good stuff**
DotM = oh, I guess it wasn't the writers strike...
AoE = meh, it's not like there's a shortage of well-written Transformers works out there
Basically, Bay's films have been the gateway drug to better things.
Noideaforaname wrote:pre-'07 = wasn't into Transformers, just had vague memories of Beast Wars and some toys
'07 Movie = EPIC OHMYGAWD
'07 Movie rewatch = hmm, that was kinda hollow actually
RotF = EPIC OHMYGAWD... but there were some flaws. Probably because of that writers strike thing
**then joins fan sites, (re)discovers BW and Animated, has fun with NEST/HftD, all good stuff**
DotM = oh, I guess it wasn't the writers strike...
AoE = meh, it's not like there's a shortage of well-written Transformers works out there
Basically, Bay's films have been the gateway drug to better things.
With this I must agree, first movie was good enough to bring me back intro Transformers and was a major inspiration in creating great series Transformers: Prime, so it was worth it just because of this. However, with skilled director First movie could be even better, and the rest of first trilogy could have been watchable.Basically, Bay's films have been the gateway drug to better things.
Prime Riblet wrote:I absolutely believe the 07 movie was an enormously positive event for the franchise. Then I would probably have to say the 2nd movie basically maintained the (new found)public awareness of the franchise created by the 07 movie. With the 3rd and 4th movies, the franchise was cheapened. Not only did the movies have less value, but a lot of the toys were cheapened too. There has been a noticeable drop in quality across the board.
Ironhidensh wrote:I perhaps worded that wrong. By negative effect on the franchise, I meant me personally. I n longer care as much about Transformers as I used to. To me, the Bay movies have cheapened transformers.
JazZeke wrote:Hey, I remember you. Likewise, I've been drifting back to the site after some time away.Ironhidensh wrote:I perhaps worded that wrong. By negative effect on the franchise, I meant me personally. I n longer care as much about Transformers as I used to. To me, the Bay movies have cheapened transformers.
How? Transformers was always a commercial-driven franchise to begin with. The fiction exists for one reason only: to sell toys. It's not like the franchise put on some cheap lipstick and a skimpy dress and became a "lady of the night" by opening up to a new, and bigger, market. Sure, the movies were pretty dumb, but so were the original cartoons if you're honest with yourself.
Dagon wrote:JazZeke wrote:Hey, I remember you. Likewise, I've been drifting back to the site after some time away.Ironhidensh wrote:I perhaps worded that wrong. By negative effect on the franchise, I meant me personally. I n longer care as much about Transformers as I used to. To me, the Bay movies have cheapened transformers.
How? Transformers was always a commercial-driven franchise to begin with. The fiction exists for one reason only: to sell toys. It's not like the franchise put on some cheap lipstick and a skimpy dress and became a "lady of the night" by opening up to a new, and bigger, market. Sure, the movies were pretty dumb, but so were the original cartoons if you're honest with yourself.
I'm not sure it's a question of not being honest with ones' self to acknowledge that the old cartoons are dumb. I think it's an issue of actually being honest with ones' self to acknowledge that just because it's called Transformers, and I like Transformers, I don't have to unquestioningly accept or approve of any/everything called Transformers. I think it's a matter of what people themselves accept, and if you don't like the cartoons or the movies or the whatever, it doesn't have to be a mark for or against the other. You can like one type of soda without having to like all other types of soda just based on the idea that you like that one kind of soda.
Sure the old cartoons were dumb, but I like them. Sure the new movies are dumb, but I don't like them. Not liking something now isn't actually a commentary on the state or worth of any other thing, past, present or future.
JazZeke wrote:Dagon wrote:JazZeke wrote:Hey, I remember you. Likewise, I've been drifting back to the site after some time away.Ironhidensh wrote:I perhaps worded that wrong. By negative effect on the franchise, I meant me personally. I n longer care as much about Transformers as I used to. To me, the Bay movies have cheapened transformers.
How? Transformers was always a commercial-driven franchise to begin with. The fiction exists for one reason only: to sell toys. It's not like the franchise put on some cheap lipstick and a skimpy dress and became a "lady of the night" by opening up to a new, and bigger, market. Sure, the movies were pretty dumb, but so were the original cartoons if you're honest with yourself.
I'm not sure it's a question of not being honest with ones' self to acknowledge that the old cartoons are dumb. I think it's an issue of actually being honest with ones' self to acknowledge that just because it's called Transformers, and I like Transformers, I don't have to unquestioningly accept or approve of any/everything called Transformers. I think it's a matter of what people themselves accept, and if you don't like the cartoons or the movies or the whatever, it doesn't have to be a mark for or against the other. You can like one type of soda without having to like all other types of soda just based on the idea that you like that one kind of soda.
Sure the old cartoons were dumb, but I like them. Sure the new movies are dumb, but I don't like them. Not liking something now isn't actually a commentary on the state or worth of any other thing, past, present or future.
Exactly. You can like one and not the other--so how do the movies "cheapen" the whole of Transformers?
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
Sustain wrote:JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
I agree on that. I get that they want to sell toys and the more then better, but you need to make us like the character to want to buy it. Killing them off and making them fodder I feel doesn't drive sales. I kinda hate that toy sales drive most of it too.
JazZeke wrote:Sustain wrote:JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
I agree on that. I get that they want to sell toys and the more then better, but you need to make us like the character to want to buy it. Killing them off and making them fodder I feel doesn't drive sales. I kinda hate that toy sales drive most of it too.
I didn't like any of the characters from the last movie enough to want to buy their toys (aside from the toys looking awful) because a) they were all annoying and b) where the hell did everybody from the last two movies go? What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.? And if the cast can be so easily turned over so unceremoniously, who's to say this cast will stick around either? Geez, remember when we thought the slaughter in the first act of the 86 movie was bad?
SlyTF1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:Sustain wrote:JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
I agree on that. I get that they want to sell toys and the more then better, but you need to make us like the character to want to buy it. Killing them off and making them fodder I feel doesn't drive sales. I kinda hate that toy sales drive most of it too.
I didn't like any of the characters from the last movie enough to want to buy their toys (aside from the toys looking awful) because a) they were all annoying and b) where the hell did everybody from the last two movies go? What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.? And if the cast can be so easily turned over so unceremoniously, who's to say this cast will stick around either? Geez, remember when we thought the slaughter in the first act of the 86 movie was bad?
Did you even watch the movie? They clearly stated that everyone was killed They even showed Leadfoot getting gunned down twice. If you saw the Wrecker's leader being slaughtered, why the Hell do you think the others are anywhere?
JazZeke wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:Sustain wrote:JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
I agree on that. I get that they want to sell toys and the more then better, but you need to make us like the character to want to buy it. Killing them off and making them fodder I feel doesn't drive sales. I kinda hate that toy sales drive most of it too.
I didn't like any of the characters from the last movie enough to want to buy their toys (aside from the toys looking awful) because a) they were all annoying and b) where the hell did everybody from the last two movies go? What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.? And if the cast can be so easily turned over so unceremoniously, who's to say this cast will stick around either? Geez, remember when we thought the slaughter in the first act of the 86 movie was bad?
Did you even watch the movie? They clearly stated that everyone was killed They even showed Leadfoot getting gunned down twice. If you saw the Wrecker's leader being slaughtered, why the Hell do you think the others are anywhere?
I'd ask if you understood rhetoric, but as you think these movies are examples of good storytelling, that's a self-answering question. (I said it before, I'll say it again: Go read a book.) My point by asking "What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.?" was not asking an obvious question, but pointing out the poor way these characters were dealt with--they deserved more than barely-mentioned off-screen deaths to make room for new characters/toys. Even the 86 movie did better by the characters it killed off by showing us their deaths; it allowed the audience to feel that loss.
SlyTF1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:Sustain wrote:JazZeke wrote:TurboMMaster wrote:With Michael Bay out of the Way, there is a great chance hat Transformers 5 will be the best movie from the series. Judging from New TMNT Movie, i think there is a chance for even more impressive progress in fifth movie, Jonathan Liebesman dexerves a chance, he killed Splinter, so there is a chance he will be brave enough to kill Optimus for a little longer.
Ugh, can we please just stop killing characters left and right? It's hard to get invested in the characters when they have a smaller survival rate than in a horror movie. Its a cheap gimmick that's lost all shock value thanks to being overdone.
I agree on that. I get that they want to sell toys and the more then better, but you need to make us like the character to want to buy it. Killing them off and making them fodder I feel doesn't drive sales. I kinda hate that toy sales drive most of it too.
I didn't like any of the characters from the last movie enough to want to buy their toys (aside from the toys looking awful) because a) they were all annoying and b) where the hell did everybody from the last two movies go? What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.? And if the cast can be so easily turned over so unceremoniously, who's to say this cast will stick around either? Geez, remember when we thought the slaughter in the first act of the 86 movie was bad?
Did you even watch the movie? They clearly stated that everyone was killed They even showed Leadfoot getting gunned down twice. If you saw the Wrecker's leader being slaughtered, why the Hell do you think the others are anywhere?
I'd ask if you understood rhetoric, but as you think these movies are examples of good storytelling, that's a self-answering question. (I said it before, I'll say it again: Go read a book.) My point by asking "What happened to Sideswipe, the Wreckers etc.?" was not asking an obvious question, but pointing out the poor way these characters were dealt with--they deserved more than barely-mentioned off-screen deaths to make room for new characters/toys. Even the 86 movie did better by the characters it killed off by showing us their deaths; it allowed the audience to feel that loss.
That, right there, is you're problem. You feel to damn much. Simple information isn't enough, is it?
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