The Energon Pub

[Robinson]

I would love to see Hogan vs. Foley that would be HUGE for TNA since they never had a match against each other before. Otherwise I'm with you.

Now that would be a spotfest.

[shortround]

Well the end of tna has arrived if tonight was any indication it looked like a whos who of the last days of wcw everyone who killed wcw was there. I just hope tna doesn't end up like wcw because I'm kind of sick of wwe right now.

[Rodimus Prime]

So...apparently The hitman has returned. Is it worth watching Raw again?

[Robinson]

So...apparently The hitman has returned. Is it worth watching Raw again?

For a wrestling fan the first 10 minutes of raw was probably better than the whole episode of impact.

[Venomous Prime]

So...apparently The hitman has returned. Is it worth watching Raw again?

For a wrestling fan the first 10 minutes of raw was probably better than the whole episode of impact.

Did you see Angle vs AJ? It was a better match then anything the WWE has produced in years...

Excluding the bits with Bret, Raw was terrible as usual.

[Robinson]

So...apparently The hitman has returned. Is it worth watching Raw again?

For a wrestling fan the first 10 minutes of raw was probably better than the whole episode of impact.

Did you see Angle vs AJ? It was a better match then anything the WWE has produced in years...

Excluding the bits with Bret, Raw was terrible as usual.

The only thing TNA did last night ws fully reinforce the WcW lite feeling I have had. I've watched episodes and some of it just doesnt work and they try so hard. I honestly do not think hogan is gonna be the savior.

TNA just keeps coming off as bush league no matter who they put in their main events.

[Cyber Bishop]

Well the end of tna has arrived if tonight was any indication it looked like a whos who of the last days of wcw everyone who killed wcw was there. I just hope tna doesn't end up like wcw because I'm kind of sick of wwe right now.

I only saw a bit of TNA but my first thought was this looks just like the final days of WCW.

Was the show that bad?

[Venomous Prime]

It was good and bad in my opinion. The first hour was atrocious(excluding Jeff Hardy's debut, which was pretty exciting I thought). In the first hour they went to a commercial every 40 seconds, not even joking. The show wasn't all bad though. There was a great match with Hamada & Kong vs Taylor Wilde and Sarita. The Pope vs Desmond Wolfe was fun, and I was sooo happy when Pope won. The main event was phenomenal(pun definitely intended). Angle and AJ once again proved why people consider them two of the best in ring workers in the country. I'm excited to see where its going to go on the next Impact.

The sad thing is, JUST because Bret was on Raw, people are looking at it with rose colored glasses. The rest of the show was awful as usual.

Neither show lived up to the hype.

[Robinson]

The sad thing is, JUST because Bret was on Raw, people are looking at it with rose colored glasses. The rest of the show was awful as usual.

Neither show lived up to the hype.

IMO the Bret stuff was more of an event because of the history involved and "closing" the book on montreal so to speak.


Impact was alot of just flash and who how many of hogans friends can we cram into the episode.

[Cyber Bishop]

Impact was alot of just flash and who how many of hogans friends can we cram into the episode.

From what I saw I thought the same thing as well..

[Cyberstrike]

I loved TNA Impact they won. Period. They proved that for one-night that they could go toe-to-toe with WWE Raw and hold their audience. They set up a ton new angles and storylines: added that they have better wrestlers Styles, Angle, Daniels, Joe, Wolfe, and more. The nWo reunion was added bonus for WCW fans like me it was a blast to see Hogan, Hall, Nash, Waltman, and Bischoff in the ring together with Sting in rafters again.
You guys bitch about TNA playing the nostalgia card so did WWE with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Vince McMahon. (Personally I'm sick and tied of Bret Hart's whining about Survivor Series 1997.
If he found closure great).

I saw great wrestling intriguing storylines, angles, some nostalgia, a ton of surprises, and great PPV main quality event all on TNA Impact. Screw the WWE.

[Robinson]

You guys bitch about TNA playing the nostalgia card so did WWE with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Vince McMahon. (Personally I'm sick and tied of Bret Hart's whining about Survivor Series 1997.
If he found closure great)

The big difference between the 2 is the guys that TNA played the card with were largely responsible for WCW's downfall, so the natural thing to do is to wonder if its going to be more of the same.

[Cyberstrike]

You guys bitch about TNA playing the nostalgia card so did WWE with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Vince McMahon. (Personally I'm sick and tied of Bret Hart's whining about Survivor Series 1997.
If he found closure great)

The big difference between the 2 is the guys that TNA played the card with were largely responsible for WCW's downfall, so the natural thing to do is to wonder if its going to be more of the same.

Wrong.
Hogan and Bischoff had nothing to do with WCW's downfall. Hogan had pretty much quit WCW after the infamous Bash at the Beach debacle and Bischoff was trying to buy WCW and save it. The reason he failed was because the bonehead running TNT and TBS decided to cancel the WCW TV shows.

[Robinson]

You guys bitch about TNA playing the nostalgia card so did WWE with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Vince McMahon. (Personally I'm sick and tied of Bret Hart's whining about Survivor Series 1997.
If he found closure great)

The big difference between the 2 is the guys that TNA played the card with were largely responsible for WCW's downfall, so the natural thing to do is to wonder if its going to be more of the same.

Wrong.
Hogan and Bischoff had nothing to do with WCW's downfall. Hogan had pretty much quit WCW after the infamous Bash at the Beach debacle and Bischoff was trying to buy WCW and save it. The reason he failed was because the bonehead running TNT and TBS decided to cancel the WCW TV shows.

Bischoff was the one handing out guaranteed longterm contracts to the old timers, so he helped lead the fall of wcw financially, because once wwe started winning the ratings war and wcw started losing money all thse contracts it was paying out caused it to hemmorage financially.

Bonehead politicing is what hogan and the rest of the older guys are going to bring in and its gonna most likely backfire.

Its the same preferential booking that everyone hates on wwe for, the big difference is that wwe can for the most part sustain itself in times when things are at a lull, yes it gets stagnant but it can survive, tna on the other hand doesnt have that backing it needs.

[Rodimus Prime]

Hogan and Bischoff had nothing to do with WCW's downfall.

I usually agre with you on most things, but that is just wrong. They were the main guys running it into the ground in 98-99, it makes no difference where they were at the end.

[Venomous Prime]

So its ok for the WWE to have a politician calling the shots backstage and have his friends in the top spots but everywhere else its wrong?

[Robinson]

So its ok for the WWE to have a politician calling the shots backstage and have his friends in the top spots but everywhere else its wrong?

I didnt say that, and while triple h supposedly"calls the shots" which is a half truth, the final say comes from vince.

with wwe people bitch that new talent is always held back over the top guys but when someone does get promoted to top level it always comes back to them being trip's friend no matter that it is still a new talent.

[Venomous Prime]

So its ok for the WWE to have a politician calling the shots backstage and have his friends in the top spots but everywhere else its wrong?

I didnt say that, and while triple h supposedly"calls the shots" which is a half truth, the final say comes from vince.

with wwe people bitch that new talent is always held back over the top guys but when someone does get promoted to top level it always comes back to them being trip's friend no matter that it is still a new talent.

Yeah, but what about the people who have paid their dues in the company already, the people who already over with the fans?

[Cyberstrike]

Hogan and Bischoff had nothing to do with WCW's downfall.

I usually agre with you on most things, but that is just wrong. They were the main guys running it into the ground in 98-99, it makes no difference where they were at the end.

First off I was in hurry and that didn't come out quite right. IMHO there is no one person who is the sole reason why WCW failed it was a combination of people and events.

I don't believe that Hogan, Nash, Flair, Hart, Sting, Luger, Savage, Goldberg, DDP, and company were at fault as much as Bischoff or Vince Russo and Ed Farrarra were. Hell why not blame Ted Turner for selling his empire to Time Warner? Or the people running Time Warner for buying AOL? Or the bonehead running TBS and TNT at the time? So yeah there is plenty of blame to go around for WCW's demise.But to say it was just Hogan and Bischoff are the ONLY guys to blame for WCW's demise is wrong IMHO. To me it was one of those rare cases where it was every-one's fault and no one's fault.

Also has it occurred to any one that they learned from their mistakes and are trying to, I guess make up for their past mistakes? Lord knows Vince McMahon needs some REAL wrestling competition if the WWE is going to survive and right now that competition is TNA.

[Robinson]

Also has it occurred to any one that they learned from their mistakes and are trying to, I guess make up for their past mistakes?

I'm willing to see it play out, but early impressions dont bode too wwell over all, but I will see it out.

[Venomous Prime]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/vince-russo-in-depth-on-jan-4-hoganbischoff-tons-more-94055

Despite his many spelling/grammar errors, Vince Russo really made me feel good about TNA. More so then I already did.

[shortround]

Will see how this all plays out and for anyone who missed monday nights TNA for some reason there repeating it tonight. I have to say that all of you guys have some good points about everything that went on during the last days of WCW.

[Rodimus Prime]

Russo and Ferrara...damn it, I managed to forget those names in the last 10 years...damn you. But I agree, they were a big part of it. Especially Russo. The Hardcore Champion.

[Venomous Prime]

Russo and Ferrara...damn it, I managed to forget those names in the last 10 years...damn you. But I agree, they were a big part of it. Especially Russo. The Hardcore Champion.

Yeah, but Russo was also a HUGE part of the Attitude Era's success. When he has good ideas, they are GREAT ideas. He just needs someone above him(ala Vinnie Mac) to help weed out the **** ones.

Not everything Ferrara and Russo did was dumb in WCW. Oklahoma was one of the funniest things ever in professional wrestling. Dr Death and Oklahoma's feud with Vampiro and the Misfits was awesome.

[Cyberstrike]

Russo and Ferrara...damn it, I managed to forget those names in the last 10 years...damn you. But I agree, they were a big part of it. Especially Russo. The Hardcore Champion.

Yeah, but Russo was also a HUGE part of the Attitude Era's success. When he has good ideas, they are GREAT ideas. He just needs someone above him(ala Vinnie Mac) to help weed out the **** ones.

I was a moderator on TNA fan site message board for about 4 years and I can't tell you the number of times I had to deal with Pro-Russo and Anti-Russo people. The Russonites (the Pro faction) had people if Russo told them to jump off a bridge they would probably do so (I read one story where a guy became a born again Christian after Russo did) and in their eyes Russo can do NOTHING wrong and is the first, last, and only booker you need.

The Anti-Russo faction would love to see nothing more than Russo fired and never work in pro wrestling again.

As for me, because I was a mod there I chose to try and remain neutral.

Now for my real opinion: I honestly don't care who books a wrestling show as long as I enjoyed it. I don't care if it's Russo, Heyman, Cornette, my cat, your dog, or anybody else for that matter. As long as I enjoy the show that is all that matters.

Not everything Ferrara and Russo did was dumb in WCW. Oklahoma was one of the funniest things ever in professional wrestling. Dr Death and Oklahoma's feud with Vampiro and the Misfits was awesome.

I disagree about Oklahoma being funny.
At the time when I first saw the character I thought it was slightly amusing (namely due to taking a swipe at the WWE), but as I've gotten older and learned more Jim Ross, I have to agree with Jim Cornette it wasn't funny, it was disgraceful because of Ross' health problems and it shows that Ed Ferrara has no conscience.