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The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:47 am

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See they could have tried it again by asking IDW to put out a cyberverse comic, but given its more kid friendly inbuilt nature, I don't think the comic would survive. Maybe they could attempt it with what ever follows Cyberverse.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ScottyP » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:52 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:See they could have tried it again by asking IDW to put out a cyberverse comic, but given its more kid friendly inbuilt nature, I don't think the comic would survive. Maybe they could attempt it with what ever follows Cyberverse.
They did a short RiD series and it was super fun, I wish they'd given it any sort of push at all. It had Team Prime! And Steve!
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby Acolyte » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:29 pm

I can't argue with No.1. Wouldn't even want to. I never have watched (and probably never will watch) G1. It was before my time. Beast Wars was a HUGE breath of fresh air, and once it became clear in later Seasons that this was "canon" and started doing the little homages to "G1" it was really, really fun.

And after that, Hasbro stopped doing anything original. :BANG_HEAD:

I don't mean new looks (video games, IDW comics, etc) or a refresh on the look/grittiness/continuity (movies, games, Prime, ec.). I mean - before Beast Wars aired, with the exception of some recycled names that had practically NOTHING to do with earlier characters, had you ever heard of a single Beast Wars character before?

Shelves were filled with Fuzors, Transmetals, TM2's: Quickstrike, Airazor, Blackarachnia, Depth Charge, Rampage, Inferno, Rhinox. These characters have stuck with us through the years and were loved because Beast Wars was such a beloved, character-driven franchise.

Where did the love for risk-taking we saw in those late 90's go? Now, "new" is "We're doubling down on G1!" When was the last time a toy line saw a character that had never been released in the last 30 years? I mean with purpose, not just some third party or off-release that was obviously just them brushing off a mold? (or Encore release, which are usually great).

Where is the whole new world? Has nobody dared to imagine the Technorganic Cybertron that was birthed at the end of Beast Machines? Has nobody wanted to go back to BEFORE Autobots and Decepticons? No, and I'll tell you why. Because most of the fandom is fickle and worships nostalgia and would excoriate any attempt to do so. You saw how people freaked their :HEADHURTS: when animated characters started looking like Michael Bay stuff. You think they're ready for entirely new stories and characters that push them outside their comfort zone?

I'll just leave that rhetorical question hanging. But I long for the day when somebody "rescues" Transformers again and gives us and our children (mine is 3, we have a few years to play with here) all new horizons to appreciate and adore.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 am

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The love for BW is well deserved. It's my personal 3rd favorite TF series of all time (critically 2nd favorite) . The toys I don't really feel qualified to rank, while I had many, I had skipped pretty much all of what was released from 2005-2015.

But on a side note, not to step on anyone's personal preference, but... I don't quite understand how anyone could purposely choose NOT to watch the original Transformers series, at least a few episodes if nothing else. I mean, to me it would be like calling yourself a Star Wars fan, and never having seen the original film, or a Star Trek fan and never having seen the Original TV series...

Again, I'm not saying people have to like it, but the thing that started the franchise deserves that respect. I mean when Gundam Wing first came on Toonami in 2000, and everyone when batshit crazy for it, I was in a real hurry to see the original series form 1979. I actually had the 3 serialized films that had been released on VHS (as well as 0080 & 0083), but I really wanted to see that original series in full to put things in perspective. To this day, while it's not my favorite Gundam series, it is easily in my top 5, and am glad I was able to see it early on before most of the series that came after it.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:05 am

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o.supreme wrote:But on a side note, not to step on anyone's personal preference, but... I don't quite understand how anyone could purposely choose NOT to watch the original Transformers series, at least a few episodes if nothing else. I mean, to me it would be like calling yourself a Star Wars fan, and never having seen the original film, or a Star Trek fan and never having seen the Original TV series...

Again, I'm not saying people have to like it, but the thing that started the franchise deserves that respect. I mean when Gundam Wing first came on Toonami in 2000, and everyone when batshit crazy for it, I was in a real hurry to see the original series form 1979. I actually had the 3 serialized films that had been released on VHS (as well as 0080 & 0083), but I really wanted to see that original series in full to put things in perspective. To this day, while it's not my favorite Gundam series, it is easily in my top 5, and am glad I was able to see it early on before most of the series that came after it.



Nostalgia is a fickle thing. As I've said before, aged 3 y/o, I watched Transformers The Movie and adored it. I avidly followed Sunbow season 3 & 4 after that. Now I never really watched Season one and two (note my age) at the time. Several years ago, it must have been some anniversary, Hasbro re-released the season boxsets on DVD. I bought Season 3 & 4 instantly and out of curiosity, Season 1 & 2 also. I barely made it to the end of the pilot episode. The horrendous dialogue, the "plots", the terrible animation, my first and last experience of the Pre-Movie seasons. I sold the boxsets soon after that. I won't attempt them again.

As an aside, you bring up Gundam Wing, which I also loved. However, that was the first Gundam series I ever saw on TV in the UK at the time. So I assumed it was The First. Again, as the other series are unrelated, I have no agency to see what else is out there.

Not everyone cares to explore the full history of any series. I wouldn't say to a Spider-Man fan of the new films and video game to watch the 60's "cartoon" or that they must read Amazing Fantasy #15. When it comes to Transformers, as one reading the Definitive G1 Collection, I wouldn't recommend a new fan reading the Marvel series either.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:35 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I wouldn't say to a Spider-Man fan of the new films and video game to watch the 60's "cartoon" or that they must read Amazing Fantasy #15. When it comes to Transformers, as one reading the Definitive G1 Collection, I wouldn't recommend a new fan reading the Marvel series either.


I would recommend, on all those counts, out of respect, but that's just me. Also calling older things *horrible" is also subjective. I'd rather watch the original Transformers series 100X before watching anything form the Unicron trilogy, because to me, it's *far superior*, but again that's just me.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:44 am

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That's the point, not everyone shares that reverence and you shouldn't force that stance upon people. Being a fan of X-Men, I've seen people ask where to start with that series? Again you see some say X-Men #1 (1963) or Giant Size X-Men #1 (1975). It's simply not necessary. Not everyone new to a series wants to recount chapter and verse, often merely the general gist is all they are actually looking for.


To anyone looking into G1 via cartoons, I always point to The Movie. It sums up everything you need to know with good action, decent characters, superior animation and a straight forward story.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ScottyP » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:16 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To anyone looking into G1 via cartoons, I always point to The Movie. It sums up everything you need to know with good action, decent characters, superior animation and a straight forward story.
I'd agree with that all the way. Maybe add the pilot episode(s) on top, but yeah, for most fans this is going to give a taste of what that was all about.

I can't imagine starting out with Transformers in 2018 and planning to experience all of it. At best, someone would get done with that around 2030 but most folks would probably burn out before hitting G2. Imagine watching all of the American cartoon, Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone, reading all of the comics (US and UK, maybe some manga too), heck even going through tech specs. That sounds like an absolute chore and I love most of that material.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:37 am

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ScottyP wrote:
I can't imagine starting out with Transformers in 2018 and planning to experience all of it. At best, someone would get done with that around 2030 but most folks would probably burn out before hitting G2. Imagine watching all of the American cartoon, Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone, reading all of the comics (US and UK, maybe some manga too), heck even going through tech specs. That sounds like an absolute chore and I love most of that material.


Keep in mind personal preference here...I consider the animated series to be more *core* than any material in print. My son who was born in 2006, started watching TF pretty regularly around age 6. Rescue Bots (and regrettably Armada) ;) , were some of his favorites, but he had managed to watch the entirety of everything in animation in less than a year. (and I mean EVERYTHING including BW II & Neo etc...) . So no, I don't consider it ever a daunting task or chore to go back and appreciate *what came first* from any franchise I take a passive or immense interest in. however I know he is a unique case, most kids' parents probably don't have access to all of it.

I never said anyone has to watch/read everything, but you should at least give it a chance. I mean, yes TF:TM represents the greatest aspects of what the original animated series was, but it's really a subplot when compared to the greater overall story.

I just cant imagine anyone who is a fan of a long-lived franchise at least not being curious about how it all started. The one pass I'll give is to Dr. Who fans (which I am not) because it's my understanding that many of the original episodes are lost.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:43 am

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I went back and gave it a chance. The Movie is as good as Sunbow got ('overall story' is a kind appraisal, also) and although the Marvel UK Transformers comics are at least readable, there is nothing there that would enhance the series for a new fan 30 years later.

What could a new fan positively gain by reading Carwash of Doom?
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I went back and gave it a chance. The Movie is as good as Sunbow got ('overall story' is a kind appraisal, also) and although the Marvel UK Transformers comics are at least readable, there is nothing there that would enhance the series for a new fan 30 years later.

What could a new fan positively gain by reading Carwash of Doom?


Nothing, that's fine, you wont ever find me defending the Marvel Comic, as I am much more a fan of the animated series. So you watched a couple of episodes, and TF:TM, which is fine, that's much better than:

I never have watched (and probably never will watch) G1.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:03 pm

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How far you choose to go in any series comes down to personal preference. Which can be rational or instinctive.

While it is more of an visible issue within the He-Man fanbase, too much emphasis tends to be given to G1. Placing it on a pedestal, one that negatively holds back Transformers as a series. An anchor that stops it from being More than meets the eye. There are many out there that think nothing more of Transformers than what Bayformers portrayed. Look back at the comics, TV series etc going today that started in the 60's or even 40's. They have become so much more than they were then. That reflects on a bittersweet note to this list. The fact Transformers keeps being pushed back to square one, over and over. Don't fans want more from Transformers 30+ years on, than Megatron and Optimus smashing against each other?
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:11 pm

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I'm never against changing things up over time. BW did this in a great way (despite the resistance that initially came with it). It's just that, at least knowing, and acknowledging anythings origin is essential IMHO. This does not mean you have to repeat it endlessly, but as time goes on, if how something started is forgotten completely, it may stop being that thing entirely.

I don't read mainstream comics for that reason. Marvel and DC have reinvented themselves into oblivion, and when I pick up any comic, I have no idea who the characters are, or why they even exist.

Also while Transformers may be able to exist without Optimus and Megatron, you really can't have He-Man without the titular character, the same with pretty much any self-titled fiction. Change can also be bad. Remember when He-Man went into space? yeah "New Adventures"...not really liked by anyone.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:There are many out there that think nothing more of Transformers than what Bayformers portrayed.


Which is sad.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:32 pm

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o.supreme wrote:Also while Transformers may be able to exist without Optimus and Megatron, you really can't have He-Man without the titular character, the same with pretty much any self-titled fiction. Change can also be bad. Remember when He-Man went into space? yeah "New Adventures"...not really liked by anyone.


Yet the last series of He-Man returned it to it's "roots", appealed to it's original fanbase and what happened? Cancelled and gone. Because you do have to change, move with the times and because the original fanbase isn't The Only fanbase you will ever have. As a fan of villains (and Sci-Fi), I preferred New Adventures to Filmation He-Man.

Batman is more than simply punching muggers and mobsters, as he did in the 40's. Meanwhile that aspect does still exist. However his fictional world has been crafted to stories beyond what was possible before. That would be like HasTak using BW as a template and leaving G1 behind altogether. Reference names, but telling stories that don't even remotely reflect the past.

o.supreme wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:There are many out there that think nothing more of Transformers than what Bayformers portrayed.


Which is sad.


The fanbase that holds G1 as sacrosanct, is just as much to blame for that.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:36 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Yet the last series of He-Man returned it to it's "roots", appealed to it's original fanbase and what happened? Cancelled and gone. Because...


CN execs are a bunch of dumb asses, that only care about *toy sales* for action shows. They wouldn't know a good show if it bit them. The fact that they cancelled YJ, Thundercats 2011, and Green Lantern, and haven't had a good show on that network since is evidence enough of that.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm

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Exactly. As was the case with 200X He-Man. If you are marketing a show to sell a toyline aimed at new younger fans, your tag line shouldn't be "Remember Us?". Which is a confusing mixed message. The cartoon was aiming to appeal to nostalgia, whereas the toyline was nowhere near a "Collectors level" to bring in the now adult original fanbase.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:45 pm

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But that's the whole flaw...why does an animated series have to live/die by toy sales at all? This ISN'T the 80's anymore...So many other shows aren't held to that restriction, yet they last for years. 2002 MOTU was by far one of the greatest animated series of this century, it's premature ending was a travesty of justice.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ScottyP » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:47 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I went back and gave it a chance. The Movie is as good as Sunbow got ('overall story' is a kind appraisal, also) and although the Marvel UK Transformers comics are at least readable, there is nothing there that would enhance the series for a new fan 30 years later.

What could a new fan positively gain by reading Carwash of Doom?
Carwash of Doom was a US story!

I actually didn't read any Transformers UK until about two years ago. The early (but post-"Man of Iron") stuff really fleshed out the US stories and provided some fun adventures for characters loke Brawn and the Dinobots. Some of the "epics" like Target: 2006 and Time Wars are fantastic, not to mention the enjoyment Death's Head adds to anything he's in! It was very worthwhile to go back and experience that material, almost made it like G1 comics were new again.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:49 pm

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ScottyP wrote:It was very worthwhile to go back and experience that material, almost made it like G1 comics were new again.


Your experience with reading UK comics, was pretty much my exact same experience with animation when I discovered Headmasters, Masterforce & Victory.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:02 pm

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o.supreme wrote:But that's the whole flaw...why does an animated series have to live/die by toy sales at all? This ISN'T the 80's anymore...So many other shows aren't held to that restriction, yet they last for years. 2002 MOTU was by far one of the greatest animated series of this century, it's premature ending was a travesty of justice.


That was never just a formula of the 80's though. It may have gained prominence there, but the idea of cartoons being toy advertisements has persisted to this day. It is how that industry works. Even short lived post-80's cartoons such as Mighty Max, Toxic Crusaders or Earthworm Jim had a robust toyline to accompany the series.



ScottyP wrote:Carwash of Doom was a US story!


Yes it is. The point still stands

ScottyP wrote:I actually didn't read any Transformers UK until about two years ago. The early (but post-"Man of Iron") stuff really fleshed out the US stories and provided some fun adventures for characters loke Brawn and the Dinobots. Some of the "epics" like Target: 2006 and Time Wars are fantastic, not to mention the enjoyment Death's Head adds to anything he's in! It was very worthwhile to go back and experience that material, almost made it like G1 comics were new again.


To what end? What does a fan of today who, for example, jumped on to Transformers through the award winning Beast Wars or Transformers Prime, let alone the pinnacle of IDWverse (IMO) Last Stand of The Wreckers, gain by reading the Marvel run?

Without nostalgia, as I said before, there is very little merit to G1 fiction to recommend.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby o.supreme » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:07 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote: It is how that industry works.


To a certain extend yes...but I'm pretty sure most of CN programming of the past 6 years or so (even though I don't watch any of it), do not have big toy lines to support them.

I don't hear my kids friends talking about toys when it comes to Teen Titans Go!, or Adventure Time, or (insert generic comedy show name here) toys...just the stupid shows themselves.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:12 pm

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
Always Guilty..."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
But.. Merchandise does still exist for everything you listed. Toys themselves aren't the be all and end all for kids they once were. It is still the model the industry uses, because it is something they understand.
"Better the devil you know" and all that.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:44 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Well this is a very good natured, robust debate :) why can't the rest of the Internet discuss like this?

For what it's worth I do tend to agree with what AllNew is saying. If fans actively look for more of the franchise then recommend away :) if not then live and let live. G1 is not gospel to me but I can understand that others are different :)
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:43 pm

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To what end? What does a fan of today who, for example, jumped on to Transformers through the award winning Beast Wars or Transformers Prime, let alone the pinnacle of IDWverse (IMO) Last Stand of The Wreckers, gain by reading the Marvel run?
Allow me to step in and answer this, speaking as one who entered this brand via Beast Wars and never got to read the Marvel run until he was 20-21.

As a young teen in the early 2000s, I was very much hyped up about all things Transformers and couldn't get enough of it. I wanted to absorb as much fiction as a I possibly could, though at the time I was also under the misconception that only the television/film-based works were what mattered since I had had zero exposure to any Transformers comics as a kid and up to that point as a teen.

So because I wanted to take in as much motion picture media as I could, I had already gotten through Beast Wars and Beast Machines and found myself wanting more. At the time, Kid Rhino was putting the G1, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Armada cartoons out on DVD, so I scooped all of those up without hesitation (RiD 2001 was--and still is--in Disney rights limbo at the time). And come 2004, Cartoon Network started airing Energon on Toonami (I was a dumb kid, so I was completely oblivious to most of that show's shortcomings).

I had also taken to getting Transformers news from fansites on the Internet at the time as well, around which point I'd discovered a few things that I'd never known about before. One of these things was the Transformers: The Ultimate Guide book publishing by Dorling Kindersley. Once I learned of its release date, I headed over the my local Borders (R.I.P.) and bought it. Reading that book fascinated me with what its contents detailed, as my ignorant brain initially thought it all pertained to the cartoon universes, until I later learned that most of its pages for the G1, Armada, and Energon sections were more specifically talking about the Marvel and Dreamwave comics (more correctly, the Dreamwave universes but with influences from Marvel).

I had never read any of the Marvel (or Dreamwave) comics, but what I'd learned about the Marvel run from both that book and on the early Transformers fansites of the 2000s intrigued me to no end. Especially the whole Primus and Unicron origin story that blew my blossoming adolescent mind way more than the cartoon's Quintesson origin did. I wanted to experience what these stories I'd heard about were talking about. I wanted to see the Dinobot Hunt, the Time Wars, the Megatron vs. Galvatron fights, The Legacy of Unicron, the Matrix Quest, the cult of Unicron, the Primus vs. Unicron fight, ALL of it!

And while I came to enjoy other new things as the years went on, I never stopped wanting to read the Marvel run, as my interest in reading it continued to linger in the back of my mind. It would not be until 2010-2011 that I finally got to read EVERYTHING from the Marvel run: US, UK, G1, G2, G.I. Joe crossovers, even Alignment! And while the US stories started to dull out around the middle of the run, the good parts were good enough to make me regret none of it. You ask what one who wasn't there for the original run gets out of going back to those old Marvel stories without the nostalgia for them to back them up? Well, I wasn't there, and what I got out of those old Marvel stories was:
  • The best version of Ratchet ever
  • The best version of Shockwave ever
  • The best "Unicron attacks Cybertron" story ever
  • One of the most hardcore depictions of Galvatron ever (and I don't mean Galvatron II)
  • The first Soundwave to ever make me even give a darn about him (in the UK comics only)
  • An awesome version of Blaster
  • A Grimlock who was both different from his cartoon counterpart and (when not being a bombastic bully) had a degree of intrigue and depth to his character (this was before RID 2015 came along and gave us its FUN Grimlock)
  • Awesome Decepticon leaders who weren't Megatron/Galvatron: the aforementioned Shockwave, plus Ratbat, Scorponok, Thunderwing, and Bludgeon
  • Storytelling that, even at its worst, kept things going in a way that showed how nearly each and every issue mattered to some extent in the long run of the series's ongoing narrative, as opposed to the cartoon's majority of filler episodes of rather pedestrian-by-comparison plots that could be skipped over due to how little overarching narrative the show had
  • Memorial character development for a good number of standout roles amid a sea of toys needing to be advertised (granted, this is not a concept unique to Marvel TF, but it's still noteworthy)
  • And on the whole, among many more things, a long-running substantial series of events that tonally felt more inline with the tones of Beast Wars and Beast Machines than the cartoon ever did, which was very poignant to me for how much I love the Beast Era ('course, this isn't to say that I subscribe to the notion of the Marvel comics, instead of the cartoon, being the G1 past of the Beast Era, no, I know good and well that the Beast Era's G1 is a mixture of cartoon/comic elements and is meant to be treated like Arthurian Legends rather than as literal history, with the exception of the contrary being the case for the Japanese Beast Era since the cartoons are absolutely the literal history of that version of the Beast Era, but I digress).
Last edited by Sabrblade on Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Top 5 Reboots in Transformers History

Postby ScottyP » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:31 pm

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^ Very well said! Marvel UK offers this sci-fi feeling with a more serious tone that is maybe the most infectious of all the G1 media.

My other thought on what it can offer: Legacy of Unicron. It's this super unique take on what it means to battle a God and I don't think anything else in transformers gets close to its depiction of weird mental warfare.
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