The Energon Pub

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Twitchythe3rd wrote:They're critics though. It's their job to complain.

And it is our job to make our own decisions and ignore their complaints.

Which makes one wonder why they're still relevant. In this day and age I can read thousands of movie reviews from people who watch movies for the same reasons I do. Is the opinion of some crotchety old fart who watches movies like he's grading homework any better?

Film criticism is dieing, slowly but surely. The first nail in the coffin was the internet, making reliance on local film critics or the the big names in the business with TV airtime (like Ebert) obsolete. When they turned to the internet overtime they evolved toward aggregate review sites like Rotten Tomatoes. And therein lies the problem.

Let's take RotF as our example due to relevance to the thread: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/transfo ... he_fallen/

Out of 234 "professional" reviews (I use the term loosely for anyone who sits on their arse watching movies for a living) 47 liked it and 187 didn't. At first glance you see the film got an abysmal score of 20%, well below average.

And then you stop and think for a moment. There's still 47 critics who LIKED this film. What about them? Does their opinion not matter?

In short: yes it doesn't matter. Aggregate review sites essentially snuff out any review of the opposing opinion with the "final decision of quality" the percent score coughs up. Not because these critics are somehow wrong but because nobody will pay them any mind, even if they provide important counter opinions to the majority. It's gotten to a point were critics who liked to voice positive opinions about "bad" films are considered for removal from RT. Armand White is one example, who tends to give summer blockbusters an equal shot and is up for removal from the site because of it. You have a system where being against the norm gets you ostrasized by your peers.

This is ultimately leading to the death of film criticism as a profession. The individual opinions of critics no longer matter, just the "winning side." As the average movie goer begins more and more to steer away from all film critics in general due to disagreement with the majority film critics will soon find themselves no longer relevant, and it will be their own fault.

5150 Cruiser wrote:-his entire response to my post-

Thanks. Was hoping I wouldn't get banned for that post but I got tired of not making that rant. As someone who frequently has to remind friends it's ok to make jokes on a touchy subject around me (in this case: gay jokes) it gets a little tiresome. The less PC we are the closer we'll all be to getting along when we no longer have to worry about "offending" someone.

Im sorry but the I wasnt offended and Im black/got friends who are black, isnt an argument I am afraid.

You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but dont let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

As for the actor who played jar jar, hmm yeah he didnt complain about the role, I wonder why, its called playing the game. He debased himself with that role.

As for critics, yeah who cares what someone who has seen more movies than you and has spent their lives devoted to the cinema thinks, much better that we get local fan boys opinions, far more valid !

shamone wrote:Im sorry but the I wasnt offended and Im black/got friends who are black, isnt an argument I am afraid.

Except that it is perfectly valid. You do not speak for everyone, only yourself.

shamone wrote:You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but dont let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

I understand how the Hays Code said gay characters had to be punished onscreen for being such with death or worse. I understand how "gay" often is synonymous with "deviant, depraved," and "evil" for many movie characters even today.

Yeah, I just happen to know quite a bit more about the ignorance of other people than you. How dare you try to associate me with that kind of bigotry.

shamone wrote:As for the actor who played jar jar, hmm yeah he didnt complain about the role, I wonder why, its called playing the game. He debased himself with that role.

Sorry, this isn't the 1930's where a black man could only get an acting job playing up the Magical Negro trope. You're projecting more than there is to find onto the situation.

shamone wrote:As for critics, yeah who cares what someone who has seen more movies than you and has spent their lives devoted to the cinema thinks, much better that we get local fan boys opinions, far more valid !

And this just confirms you for a troll, and not a very good one. Individual opinion means more than the words of any critic. Kindly leave to troll another thread, please.

shamone wrote: I'm sorry but the I wasn't offended and I'm black/got friends who are black, isn't an argument I am afraid.

Yes, yes it is. If the ethic group that you claim were targeted and portrayed were not offended, then why should you?

shamone wrote: You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but don't let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

So now those that don't agree with your point of view are "ignorant".. Wow. Great way to get your point across. So if those that had no problem with the twins are as ignorant as you make them out to be, please...by all means. Educate us on what context of the twins behavior, as well as the imagery that associates them with black people.

Capt.Failure wrote:

shamone wrote:Im sorry but the I wasnt offended and Im black/got friends who are black, isnt an argument I am afraid.

Except that it is perfectly valid. You do not speak for everyone, only yourself.

shamone wrote:You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but dont let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

I understand how the Hays Code said gay characters had to be punished onscreen for being such with death or worse. I understand how "gay" often is synonymous with "deviant, depraved," and "evil" for many movie characters even today.

Yeah, I just happen to know quite a bit more about the ignorance of other people than you. How dare you try to associate me with that kind of bigotry.

shamone wrote:As for the actor who played jar jar, hmm yeah he didnt complain about the role, I wonder why, its called playing the game. He debased himself with that role.

Sorry, this isn't the 1930's where a black man could only get an acting job playing up the Magical Negro trope. You're projecting more than there is to find onto the situation.

shamone wrote:As for critics, yeah who cares what someone who has seen more movies than you and has spent their lives devoted to the cinema thinks, much better that we get local fan boys opinions, far more valid !

And this just confirms you for a troll, and not a very good one. Individual opinion means more than the words of any critic. Kindly leave to troll another thread, please.

address your points one by one

1. yes my opinion is only mine. But so are your "black" friend's so they do not speak for everyone either, which is point i was making

2. I dont know how homosexuality and the hays code has anything to do with the racism debate in ROTF. The Hays code was not responsible for the poor and at times downright offensive representations of minorities in old hollywood. its a straw man argument at best

3. An aspiring actor will not talk out or complain about roles no matter how humiliating they are. thats the game my friend, reputation sticks to you like mud in the business

4. The classic internt reply, someone doesnt agree with me, they must be trolling. Tell me why the fact that i prefer critics opinion ahead of fanboys reviews, makes me out to be a troll. I would love to know why, or do you have an issue with my opinions, and therefore they must be trolling as opposed to honest expression

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: I'm sorry but the I wasn't offended and I'm black/got friends who are black, isn't an argument I am afraid.

Yes, yes it is. If the ethic group that you claim were targeted and portrayed were not offended, then why should you?

shamone wrote: You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but don't let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

So now those that don't agree with your point of view are "ignorant".. Wow. Great way to get your point across. So if those that had no problem with the twins are as ignorant as you make them out to be, please...by all means. Educate us on what context of the twins behavior, as well as the imagery that associates them with black people.

1. A small portion of people, based on anecdotal evidence does not speak for an ethnic group, thats an offensive stance in itself.

I dont have to bey black to feel offended, jsut like I dont have to be japanese to be offended by mickey rooney, or any minority to be offended by the latest work of lucas and walliams

2. The fact that you arent aware of why the twins are depicted in a racist manner would suggest you are ignorant to the historical conontations present in their depection.

I am going to ignore their accents, behavior and the cant read line, and let bay have his defence that they learned to speak like that from the internet. Because all black people speak like they are from the ghetto, Mr bay, but I will let that pass.

However their physical appearance is the key point and the most glaring example.

Without going on and on about it, I will just give you some reference points

- Fleischer cartoons
- Southern friend rabbit
- Tintin and the Congo
- Mickey mouse annual when he visits africa
- Stepin fetchit
- Andy and Amos

All despicable simplistic portrayals of which the twins bear resemblance to.

shamone wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: I'm sorry but the I wasn't offended and I'm black/got friends who are black, isn't an argument I am afraid.

Yes, yes it is. If the ethic group that you claim were targeted and portrayed were not offended, then why should you?

shamone wrote: You may not understand the context, you may not be aware of the actual imagery employed in the movie and what it was referencing, but don't let your ignorance excuse those responsible for the abomination that the twins were.

So now those that don't agree with your point of view are "ignorant".. Wow. Great way to get your point across. So if those that had no problem with the twins are as ignorant as you make them out to be, please...by all means. Educate us on what context of the twins behavior, as well as the imagery that associates them with black people.

1. A small portion of people, based on anecdotal evidence does not speak for an ethnic group, thats an offensive stance in itself.

I dont have to bey black to feel offended, jsut like I dont have to be japanese to be offended by mickey rooney, or any minority to be offended by the latest work of lucas and walliams

2. The fact that you arent aware of why the twins are depicted in a racist manner would suggest you are ignorant to the historical conontations present in their depection.

I am going to ignore their accents, behavior and the cant read line, and let bay have his defence that they learned to speak like that from the internet. Because all black people speak like they are from the ghetto, Mr bay, but I will let that pass.

However their physical appearance is the key point and the most glaring example.

Without going on and on about it, I will just give you some reference points

- Fleischer cartoons
- Southern friend rabbit
- Tintin and the Congo
- Mickey mouse annual when he visits africa
- Stepin fetchit
- Andy and Amos

All despicable simplistic portrayals of which the twins bear resemblance to.

It's obvious we can't get through to you, so I'll sum everything up in two sentences:

You do not speak for others, only yourself, especially when the people you try to "defend" are not offended. If anything your claiming of ignorance on race issues on 5105 Cruiser's part when you are more than likely white is worse than anything Bay did in his film, much like your claim I know nothing of human ignorance when I've been the target of homophobia in the past when you are more than likely straight.

Now kindly take your ignorance to another thread.

shamone wrote: 1. A small portion of people, based on anecdotal evidence does not speak for an ethnic group, thats an offensive stance in itself.
I dont have to bey black to feel offended, jsut like I dont have to be japanese to be offended by mickey rooney, or any minority to be offended by the latest work of lucas and walliams
2. The fact that you arent aware of why the twins are depicted in a racist manner would suggest you are ignorant to the historical conontations present in their depection.
I am going to ignore their accents, behavior and the cant read line, and let bay have his defence that they learned to speak like that from the internet. Because all black people speak like they are from the ghetto, Mr bay, but I will let that pass.

However their physical appearance is the key point and the most glaring example.

Without going on and on about it, I will just give you some reference points

- Fleischer cartoons
- Southern friend rabbit
- Tintin and the Congo
- Mickey mouse annual when he visits africa
- Stepin fetchit
- Andy and Amos

All despicable simplistic portrayals of which the twins bear resemblance to.

You know, you can preety much find racism in just about anything. If you look hard enough. Sometimes is aparent. other times its not. But in the end its still up to the end user to relate said content. In this case, you and others that found the twins (Green and Orange mind you) looks and behavior in a racist manner,shows your personal ethnic veiws. The fact you, shamone, related their looks the same par as that Tintin and Congo shows and imediately acosiated said looks with black people is down right offensive and racist by itself. You really should be ashamed.

Captain Failure is right. Your nothing but a troll reaching for excuses to dislike Bay more than you have already demonstrated. Your a sad, sad individual who has shown his/her true side. I pity you. I really do.

5150 Cruiser wrote:
You know, you can preety much find racism in just about anything. If you look hard enough. Sometimes is aparent. other times its not. But in the end its still up to the end user to relate said content. In this case, you and others that found the twins (Green and Orange mind you) looks and behavior in a racist manner,shows your personal ethnic veiws. The fact you, shamone, related their looks the same par as that Tintin and Congo shows and imediately acosiated said looks with black people is down right offensive and racist by itself. You really should be ashamed.

Captain Failure is right. Your nothing but a troll reaching for excuses to dislike Bay more than you have already demonstrated. Your a sad, sad individual who has shown his/her true side. I pity you. I really do.

1. The one thing I agree with is that anyone can find something racist. Just like you have accused me of racism right there.

Now please explain to me exactly where I said the portrayal of the africans in Tintin in the Congo, and how they resemble the Twins, in anyway relates to an accurate portrayal of people of that ethnicity. Did I say that either depiction accurately resembled or even partially resembled the way "black" people look

Why I picked examples that I did was because they (not I ) portrayed black people as buck toothed, big eared, big mouthed, wide eyed. bear any resemblance to a set of twins you know.

I am actually saying that it is an unfair and gross depiction

2. I specifically said that i will cast aside behavior and language and purely go on the design of the twins so that negates you accusing me of relating their behavior to a race


3.The reason I use the word ignorant, is the definition is, someone who not be fully aware of the knowledge or information. hence why I gave examples, as I though you may not be aware of where the accusations of racism in ROTF comes from

4. The reason i chose Tintin and the congo was because of the gross portrayal of the africans in that book, and also the historical context. The book was written by a Belgian, in relation to a belgian colony. Why do you thinkt hat was, to portray a gross example of the locals to the colonisers, so the public could accept the atrocities carried out. Crimes which led to the rwandan massacre, such is the long lasting effect. Now when the dominant culture, portrays minorities in stereotypical manner, there is usually a subtext, lets look at ROTF, white director, white producers, white screen writers, one of the characters is voiced by a caucuasin. Im not suggesting that there is an agenda there, jsut noting that this is how white hollywood has decided to portray african americans, why... who knows

5. I exonerated Bay at the start, saying he didnt write the script, so that theory of yours is shot.

6. I respect fact you were not offended, and thats fine. But I was offended by it, we can only speak for ourselves. i have given you plenty of reasons why I and others found it offensive, you ahve responded with insults, which brings me to ...........

7. Finally and this is on a personal note. i have advised you before not to use personal insults when debating, yet it seems only way for you to converse. Save the lengthy PM's, I didnt read the last one, but the mods need to look at way you attack others. im a troll and a racist, why not complete the internet memes and call me Hitler and be done with it. but first of tell me where I displayed racism to any race or culture

Capt.Failure wrote:
It's obvious we can't get through to you, so I'll sum everything up in two sentences:

You do not speak for others, only yourself, especially when the people you try to "defend" are not offended. If anything your claiming of ignorance on race issues on 5105 Cruiser's part when you are more than likely white is worse than anything Bay did in his film, much like your claim I know nothing of human ignorance when I've been the target of homophobia in the past when you are more than likely straight.

Now kindly take your ignorance to another thread.

1. Exactly i dont speak for anyone else. neither do you, im expressing the reason why i found it offensive

2. Just because you are gay or black or whatever, does not mean you know more about the historical or cultural institionalised racism. If i were to use the N or F word to someone who never heard those before, would that be ok, if they didnt understand it, or is it still prejudiced to others who witness it.

3. I didnt say you knew nothing about ignorance, you ahve taken the wrong intepretation of ignorance

4. Why do you bang on about your sexuality, i dont care what where you put your C---, its not an issue to me, enjoy. What this has to do with the subject matters or the hays code I dont know, as the racial stereotypes are unrelated to the hayes code

Shamone - your posts are so full of FAIL its ridiculous. The depictions, accents, dialect, and behavior of the twins in ROTF can be attributed to any ethnic group walking around on the earth today. Why people select "blacks" and then wave the racist flag is beyond me.

I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

Ok, I lol'd. Thanks for that.

I'm black and all, and this may sound the wrong way; but I'm actually wishing the Wreckers would be racist red necks. That would be awesome! I would laugh my ass off at that; sadly, it would just turn more people against Bay, and more parents against Transformers.

People need to look and laugh at their stereotypes; because God knows that about 95% of the stuff is true in most cases.

Queenambeach wrote:Shamone - your posts are so full of FAIL its ridiculous. The depictions, accents, dialect, and behavior of the twins in ROTF can be attributed to any ethnic group walking around on the earth today. Why people select "blacks" and then wave the racist flag is beyond me.

so this is what debate ahs come to, throw out an internet meme "fail" without any substance and argument refuted

i only mentioned descrition, and then in relation to the way they resembled previously racist portrayals

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

well why not

you could also do it if you were

Latino
Jewish
French

shamone wrote:

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

well why not

you could also do it if you were

Latino
Jewish
French

joke (jk)
n.
1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.
v. joked, jok·ing, jokes
v.intr.
1. To tell or play jokes; jest.
2. To speak in fun; be facetious.
v.tr.
To make fun of; tease.

RhA wrote:

shamone wrote:

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

well why not

you could also do it if you were

Latino
Jewish
French

joke (jk)
n.
1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.
v. joked, jok·ing, jokes
v.intr.
1. To tell or play jokes; jest.
2. To speak in fun; be facetious.
v.tr.
To make fun of; tease.

"If you had to explain the joke to me then there IS NO JOKE!!"
-The Joker

Capt.Failure wrote:

RhA wrote:

shamone wrote:

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

well why not

you could also do it if you were

Latino
Jewish
French

joke (jk)
n.
1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.
v. joked, jok·ing, jokes
v.intr.
1. To tell or play jokes; jest.
2. To speak in fun; be facetious.
v.tr.
To make fun of; tease.

"If you had to explain the joke to me then there IS NO JOKE!!"
-The Joker

...a cold wind rises in the east.

shamone wrote:Now please explain to me exactly where I said the portrayal of the africans in Tintin in the Congo, and how they resemble the Twins, in anyway relates to an accurate portrayal of people of that ethnicity. Did I say that either depiction accurately resembled or even partially resembled the way "black" people look

Why I picked examples that I did was because they (not I ) portrayed black people as buck toothed, big eared, big mouthed, wide eyed. bear any resemblance to a set of twins you know.

Acctually, i didn't see any resemblance in the africans from "Tin Tin and Congo" as they were protrayed more like "Monkeys" and animal like. This is what initialy upset me about your comparison. But this is what really upsets me about your comparisons as well as this whole "Twins racist" topic...

-The twins had big ears, and buck teeth. Yes, no ones denying that.
-In the past people have portrayed black people in this manner.

I am actually saying that it is an unfair and gross depiction

Fine. But here's the problem that so many scan't seem to grasph...
The twins are not black. Their robots from another planet. Just because something has big ears and big teeth does not mean that they are black, or being portrayed as being black. But people see this characteristics and automaticly think of black people. Thats where people (like you have been doing) draw their own conclusions and relate their deceptions of the material. In this case, you saw big ears and buck teeth and thought of black people. Thats whats upsetting.

2. I specifically said that i will cast aside behavior and language and purely go on the design of the twins so that negates you accusing me of relating their behavior to a race

NO. It was bringing up their behavior and then attempting to get out of using it as a comparison by saying "You'll ignore it". If you truely didn't relate their behavior to said ethnicity, then why even bring it up in the first place?

3.The reason I use the word ignorant, is the definition is, someone who not be fully aware of the knowledge or information. hence why I gave examples, as I though you may not be aware of where the accusations of racism in ROTF comes from

Again, the Twins aren't black, and this isn't the 1930's.

6. I respect fact you were not offended, and thats fine. But I was offended by it, we can only speak for ourselves.i have given you plenty of reasons why I and others found it offensive, you ahve responded with insults,

1.-OK. Your right that i shouldn't be telling you and others what you should and should not be offended by. I can't control how you view things. But regardless i have a very hard time accepting those reasons. And those "insults" are not personal. If you look back on any topic involving the Twins and the "racist" debate, i have always said that those that found racisim in the twins are the ones who are the racist. Sorry, but that's my honest feeling on the matter.
2.- I'm not sure how many people really truely saw racisim in the twins. With so many people complaining how "annoying" they were, i think many were just upset that so much character development and screen time was devoted to such un popular characters instead of the main characters such as Ironhide, Ratchet, Jolt (admitidly, a wasted character) etc. As i said before, i'm sure some did truely find the twins racist. This goes back to my orignal statement that its up to the end user and how they relate said material to said ethicity.

7. Finally and this is on a personal note. i have advised you before not to use personal insults when debating, yet it seems only way for you to converse. Save the lengthy PM's, I didnt read the last one, but the mods need to look at way you attack others. im a troll and a racist, why not complete the internet memes and call me Hitler and be done with it. but first of tell me where I displayed racism to any race or culture

So its all me huh? Your perfect in every way. Cause every person in this thread as well as others have completely agread with your line of thinking huh? Maybe, just maybe its not the person your debating with that has the problem. Maybe you shouldn have read that PM. I tried to make peace, you you choose to ignore that. But that's ok. Cause in the end..
I don't care Sound familar?

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote:Now please explain to me exactly where I said the portrayal of the africans in Tintin in the Congo, and how they resemble the Twins, in anyway relates to an accurate portrayal of people of that ethnicity. Did I say that either depiction accurately resembled or even partially resembled the way "black" people look

Why I picked examples that I did was because they (not I ) portrayed black people as buck toothed, big eared, big mouthed, wide eyed. bear any resemblance to a set of twins you know.

Acctually, i didn't see any resemblance in the africans from "Tin Tin and Congo" as they were protrayed more like "Monkeys" and animal like. This is what initialy upset me about your comparison. But this is what really upsets me about your comparisons as well as this whole "Twins racist" topic...

-The twins had big ears, and buck teeth. Yes, no ones denying that.
-In the past people have portrayed black people in this manner.

I am actually saying that it is an unfair and gross depiction

Fine. But here's the problem that so many scan't seem to grasph...
The twins are not black. Their robots from another planet. Just because something has big ears and big teeth does not mean that they are black, or being portrayed as being black. But people see this characteristics and automaticly think of black people. Thats where people (like you have been doing) draw their own conclusions and relate their deceptions of the material. In this case, you saw big ears and buck teeth and thought of black people. Thats whats upsetting.

2. I specifically said that i will cast aside behavior and language and purely go on the design of the twins so that negates you accusing me of relating their behavior to a race

NO. It was bringing up their behavior and then attempting to get out of using it as a comparison by saying "You'll ignore it". If you truely didn't relate their behavior to said ethnicity, then why even bring it up in the first place?

3.The reason I use the word ignorant, is the definition is, someone who not be fully aware of the knowledge or information. hence why I gave examples, as I though you may not be aware of where the accusations of racism in ROTF comes from

Again, the Twins aren't black, and this isn't the 1930's.

6. I respect fact you were not offended, and thats fine. But I was offended by it, we can only speak for ourselves.i have given you plenty of reasons why I and others found it offensive, you ahve responded with insults,

1.-OK. Your right that i shouldn't be telling you and others what you should and should not be offended by. I can't control how you view things. But regardless i have a very hard time accepting those reasons. And those "insults" are not personal. If you look back on any topic involving the Twins and the "racist" debate, i have always said that those that found racisim in the twins are the ones who are the racist. Sorry, but that's my honest feeling on the matter.
2.- I'm not sure how many people really truely saw racisim in the twins. With so many people complaining how "annoying" they were, i think many were just upset that so much character development and screen time was devoted to such un popular characters instead of the main characters such as Ironhide, Ratchet, Jolt (admitidly, a wasted character) etc. As i said before, i'm sure some did truely find the twins racist. This goes back to my orignal statement that its up to the end user and how they relate said material to said ethicity.

7. Finally and this is on a personal note. i have advised you before not to use personal insults when debating, yet it seems only way for you to converse. Save the lengthy PM's, I didnt read the last one, but the mods need to look at way you attack others. im a troll and a racist, why not complete the internet memes and call me Hitler and be done with it. but first of tell me where I displayed racism to any race or culture

So its all me huh? Your perfect in every way. Cause every person in this thread as well as others have completely agread with your line of thinking huh? Maybe, just maybe its not the person your debating with that has the problem. Maybe you shouldn have read that PM. I tried to make peace, you you choose to ignore that. But that's ok. Cause in the end..
I don't care Sound familar?

1. if you dont see resemblance fine, thats your choice. I do

2. I dont see your point whith the black people were portrayed with buck teeth and big ears and the twins had same. I didnt make that way, the designers did, so in order to avoid unfortunate comparisons maybe they shouldnt have, and then give them patois accents and lingo

3. To be fair the reason people make the links is not just look, but look linked with behavior and accent and lingo. It seems highly unlikely that it is merely coincidence, if they had anglo saxon accents the link may not be made

4. They are given stereotypical racist mannerisms and looks of a certain ethnicity. Why ?

5. for you to throw out the racism charge to people is shorthand for this cant be debated unless you want to be called a bigot. it is an insult and you need to learn how to engage others without using the fall back of name calling and serious accusations. If pointing something out is racist then many black people who complained about the twins must be racist too. you dont think people are offended by the representation, well do some research and you will find significant outcry about it.

6. you want peace where there is no war. Dont get your back up because you offend in public and apologise in private. thats cowardly behavior. Do you need popular opinion to be right or wrong, thats the mentality of the mob, so people may not agree with me, that doesnt make me wrong.

shamone wrote:
4. They are given stereotypical racist mannerisms and looks of a certain ethnicity. Why ?

There you go again. Your the one that is reconising and associated said looks and behavior with black people. But the problem is THEIR NOT BLACK!!!!! For the life of me i don't get what is so hard to see about this!!

5. for you to throw out the racism charge to people is shorthand for this cant be debated unless you want to be called a bigot. it is an insult and you need to learn how to engage others without using the fall back of name calling and serious accusations. If pointing something out is racist then many black people who complained about the twins must be racist too. you don't think people are offended by the representation, well do some research and you will find significant outcry about it.

Call me what you want dude. I don't care. Cause I've defended my position and stand by it 100%. If you can't debate on a serious subject like this and not take the accusations that come with it then step out.
And yes, I'd say the same thing about a black person if their view was the same on this subject. Like i said, do some research and you'll see my view has been the same since ROTF came out back in 09'.

shamone wrote:6. you want peace where there is no war. Don't get your back up because you offend in public and apologies in private. thats cowardly behavior. Do you need popular opinion to be right or wrong, thats the mentality of the mob, so people may not agree with me, that doesn't make me wrong.

No, you saw it offensive. Others didn't seem to have a problem. I also, never apologized, cause i didn't do anything wrong. You Had a personal vendetta and I mealy wanted peace. But you choose to ignore that.

Whatever. at this point, you have your opinion on the matter, as i do mine. Continue to think like you will. I can't change that. But you claim i need to watch what i say. I strongly erg you to do the same if you wish to avoid future conflicts like this.

I'm with 5150 Cruiser on this. The twins aren't a racist stereotype unless you already see black people that way. I saw them as a couple of kids that watch too much MTV. Complaining about racism only makes the problem worse, it's just throwing gas on the fire.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote:
4. They are given stereotypical racist mannerisms and looks of a certain ethnicity. Why ?

There you go again. Your the one that is reconising and associated said looks and behavior with black people. But the problem is THEIR NOT BLACK!!!!! For the life of me i don't get what is so hard to see about this!!

5. for you to throw out the racism charge to people is shorthand for this cant be debated unless you want to be called a bigot. it is an insult and you need to learn how to engage others without using the fall back of name calling and serious accusations. If pointing something out is racist then many black people who complained about the twins must be racist too. you don't think people are offended by the representation, well do some research and you will find significant outcry about it.

Call me what you want dude. I don't care. Cause I've defended my position and stand by it 100%. If you can't debate on a serious subject like this and not take the accusations that come with it then step out.
And yes, I'd say the same thing about a black person if their view was the same on this subject. Like i said, do some research and you'll see my view has been the same since ROTF came out back in 09'.

shamone wrote:6. you want peace where there is no war. Don't get your back up because you offend in public and apologies in private. thats cowardly behavior. Do you need popular opinion to be right or wrong, thats the mentality of the mob, so people may not agree with me, that doesn't make me wrong.

No, you saw it offensive. Others didn't seem to have a problem. I also, never apologized, cause i didn't do anything wrong. You Had a personal vendetta and I mealy wanted peace. But you choose to ignore that.

Whatever. at this point, you have your opinion on the matter, as i do mine. Continue to think like you will. I can't change that. But you claim i need to watch what i say. I strongly erg you to do the same if you wish to avoid future conflicts like this.

1. I dont know if you read what i say, or you read what you want. If you parse a sentence and take one or two words out of it, it doesnt make an argument. What i said was that the twins resembled a stereotype hollywood has used, i didnt say they resemble any black people i know, jsut a bigoted view that hollywood has perpetuated in the past.

2. call you ant you want. I didnt call you anything, i dont label people, unlike you. I dont assume people are a certain race, or share my views. You debate something serious like this by calling someone a troll and bigot, thats a serious way to debate, defame and slander, hardly socrophatic is it

3. Im offended when you call me a bigot. i am entitled to feel that way, considering you dont know me and i have never said anything that could be explicitly or implicitly racist. as i said before, race, sexuality cant be discussed maturely, when people turn to labels when someone else expresses their view

4. I said you need to watch what you say, because your default response is to insult. This is not first time you have done this either.

I gave you a number of examples of the reasons i felt the twins were offensive to me, clue there is TO ME, you proceeded to let the insults fly.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:I'm with 5150 Cruiser on this. The twins aren't a racist stereotype unless you already see black people that way. I saw them as a couple of kids that watch too much MTV. Complaining about racism only makes the problem worse, it's just throwing gas on the fire.

Honestly, who cares if they are black anyway? I sure as hell don't.