The Energon Pub

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:34 pm

RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

I did, and I still do. I went into the movie expecting something along the lines of Animated Blitzwing, just to be disappointed by how underplayed the accent was and that he wasn't around long enough to be super hilarious.

Also, I bloody hope so that the Wreckers are stereotypes, I mean seriously, when we first saw the Twins I was like "F**k yea, Red necks!", then they started talking like me when I was 15.... :-(

Edit: I didn't want to say racist stereotypes, wouldn't make any sense anyway, I mean are red necks a own race?

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:39 pm

Dead Metal wrote:
RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

I did, and I still do. I went into the movie expecting something along the lines of Animated Blitzwing, just to be disappointed by how underplayed the accent was and that he wasn't around long enough to be super hilarious.

Also, I bloody hope so that the Wreckers are racist stereotypes, I mean seriously, when we first saw the Twins I was like "F**k yea, Red necks!", then they started talking like me when I was 15....

Hell yeah! Me too!!! :twisted:

by **Red 50** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:49 am

SlyTF1 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:
RhA wrote:I'm part German. I will now raise a similar stink about Scalpel.

I did, and I still do. I went into the movie expecting something along the lines of Animated Blitzwing, just to be disappointed by how underplayed the accent was and that he wasn't around long enough to be super hilarious.

Also, I bloody hope so that the Wreckers are racist stereotypes, I mean seriously, when we first saw the Twins I was like "F**k yea, Red necks!", then they started talking like me when I was 15....

Hell yeah! Me too!!!

I just liked the twins because they were funny. Ill just wait and hope the wreckers will be also good to watch.

by **Capt.Failure** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:44 am

This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard. :twisted:

by **shamone** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:18 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard.

or it will suggest that bay is incapable of making a movie without characters which are narrow stereotypes instead of fully 3 dimensional characters

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:49 pm

I hope they're the most backwards, backwoods, rednecked, old boys possible.

I hope there's a scene where the entire conversation goes:

"Yep..."

"Yup..."

"mhrm."

"Yep."

The delicious angst this will cause among fans will be so very worth it.

by **JetOptimus23** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:11 pm

shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:
4. They are given stereotypical racist mannerisms and looks of a certain ethnicity. Why ?

There you go again. Your the one that is reconising and associated said looks and behavior with black people. But the problem is THEIR NOT BLACK!!!!! For the life of me i don't get what is so hard to see about this!!

5. for you to throw out the racism charge to people is shorthand for this cant be debated unless you want to be called a bigot. it is an insult and you need to learn how to engage others without using the fall back of name calling and serious accusations. If pointing something out is racist then many black people who complained about the twins must be racist too. you don't think people are offended by the representation, well do some research and you will find significant outcry about it.

Call me what you want dude. I don't care. Cause I've defended my position and stand by it 100%. If you can't debate on a serious subject like this and not take the accusations that come with it then step out.
And yes, I'd say the same thing about a black person if their view was the same on this subject. Like i said, do some research and you'll see my view has been the same since ROTF came out back in 09'.

shamone wrote:6. you want peace where there is no war. Don't get your back up because you offend in public and apologies in private. thats cowardly behavior. Do you need popular opinion to be right or wrong, thats the mentality of the mob, so people may not agree with me, that doesn't make me wrong.

No, you saw it offensive. Others didn't seem to have a problem. I also, never apologized, cause i didn't do anything wrong. You Had a personal vendetta and I mealy wanted peace. But you choose to ignore that.

Whatever. at this point, you have your opinion on the matter, as i do mine. Continue to think like you will. I can't change that. But you claim i need to watch what i say. I strongly erg you to do the same if you wish to avoid future conflicts like this.

1. I dont know if you read what i say, or you read what you want. If you parse a sentence and take one or two words out of it, it doesnt make an argument. What i said was that the twins resembled a stereotype hollywood has used, i didnt say they resemble any black people i know, jsut a bigoted view that hollywood has perpetuated in the past.

2. call you ant you want. I didnt call you anything, i dont label people, unlike you. I dont assume people are a certain race, or share my views. You debate something serious like this by calling someone a troll and bigot, thats a serious way to debate, defame and slander, hardly socrophatic is it

3. Im offended when you call me a bigot. i am entitled to feel that way, considering you dont know me and i have never said anything that could be explicitly or implicitly racist. as i said before, race, sexuality cant be discussed maturely, when people turn to labels when someone else expresses their view

4. I said you need to watch what you say, because your default response is to insult. This is not first time you have done this either.

I gave you a number of examples of the reasons i felt the twins were offensive to me, clue there is TO ME, you proceeded to let the insults fly.

Can't tell if trolling, or just stubborn...

I gonna have to go with 5150 on this.

In fact, is anyone on Shamone's side?

by **zenosaurus_x** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:18 pm

Counterpunch wrote:I hope they're the most backwards, backwoods, rednecked, old boys possible.

I hope there's a scene where the entire conversation goes:

"Yep..."

"Yup..."

"mhrm."

"Yep."

The delicious angst this will cause among fans will be so very worth it.

Amen to that...

I still don't get why people make such a big deal about this...

News Credits: 7 · by **Noideaforaname** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:06 pm

I am sorely tempted to rename Roadbuster Dale, Leadfoot Bill, Topspin Boomhauer, and Steeljaw Ladybird. Just need a Hank...

News Credits: 2 · by **Twitchythe3rd** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:39 pm

Noideaforaname wrote:I am sorely tempted to rename Roadbuster Dale, Leadfoot Bill, Topspin Boomhauer, and Steeljaw Ladybird. Just need a Hank...

Optimus as Hank. Megatron as Khan.

by **Evil_the_Nub** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:53 pm

Twitchythe3rd wrote:
Noideaforaname wrote:I am sorely tempted to rename Roadbuster Dale, Leadfoot Bill, Topspin Boomhauer, and Steeljaw Ladybird. Just need a Hank...

Optimus as Hank. Megatron as Khan.

Jetfire as Cotton.

News Credits: 7 · by **Noideaforaname** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:28 pm

Since the comparison refused to leave my head:

...and now these guys have gone from "maybe" to "must buy."

by **Iamwarhorse** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:30 am

^That's too funny. Hey, I heard them damn NASCAR engines in one of the trailers, and it really got me excited to see this flick!

by **Capt.Failure** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:38 pm

shamone wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard.

or it will suggest that bay is incapable of making a movie without characters which are narrow stereotypes instead of fully 3 dimensional characters

You do know that Bay is the director, not the writer of the screenplay or script, right? Basic knowledge of how to make a film would help your point of view. :roll:

News Credits: 1 · by **Starscream GaGa** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:08 pm

I've heard Bay works very closely with the Transformers-designers. Besides, he approves all designs and scripts.

News Credits: 5 · by **5150 Cruiser** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:54 pm

Capt.Failure wrote: This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard.

And i'll be right there laughing with you! :lol:

I really hope they do. And if Larry the cable guy, Bill Engleve, and Jeff Foxworthy by chance end up voicing them, then that will be a win! I don't care if people feel they will full fill any stereo types. So what? Its comedy relief!

shamone wrote:or it will suggest that bay is incapable of making a movie without characters which are narrow stereotypes instead of fully 3 dimensional characters

Actully, it would be the other way around. It would show personality and character in the wreakers.
Its funny, people complain about these bots not having enough character development, but when they get it they still complain! (this was not aimed at you shamone)

Capt.Failure wrote: You do know that Bay is the director, not the writer of the screenplay or script, right? Basic knowledge of how to make a film would help your point of view.

Yes, but its soooo much eaiser to just blame bay instead of the people that are actually responisble for their said jobs.

Starscream GaGa wrote:I've heard Bay works very closely with the Transformers-designers. Besides, he approves all designs and scripts.

NO, HASBRO, the company that owns the TF name, has final say over all robot designs. NOt bay. Cause at the end of the day, they still need to be able to sell toys and merchandise. I don't doubt that Bay works with them, but ultimatly, hasbro is going to give the final go. So if you have a problem with designs, then blame them.

News Credits: 1 · by **Starscream GaGa** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:10 am

5150 Cruiser wrote:NO, HASBRO, the company that owns the TF name, has final say over all robot designs. NOt bay. Cause at the end of the day, they still need to be able to sell toys and merchandise. I don't doubt that Bay works with them, but ultimatly, hasbro is going to give the final go. So if you have a problem with designs, then blame them.

He still does have a say in them, if not the final say. I'm pretty sure it goes Designers > Bay > Hasbro

They were talking about it on the Special Features of the first movie, I believe?

Besides... Hasbro approved Spastic, they're not the brightest sparks.

News Credits: 5 · by **5150 Cruiser** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:52 am

Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:NO, HASBRO, the company that owns the TF name, has final say over all robot designs. NOt bay. Cause at the end of the day, they still need to be able to sell toys and merchandise. I don't doubt that Bay works with them, but ultimatly, hasbro is going to give the final go. So if you have a problem with designs, then blame them.

He still does have a say in them, if not the final say. I'm pretty sure it goes Designers > Bay > Hasbro

They were talking about it on the Special Features of the first movie, I believe?

Besides... Hasbro approved Spastic, they're not the brightest sparks.

Exactly. In the end, its Bay, not Hasbro. So even if Bay loves the design, in the end if Hasbro doesn't like it, it gets changed, left alone, etc. But people still want to put it all on Bay if its something they don't like.

by **shamone** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:44 am

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote: This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard.

And i'll be right there laughing with you! I really hope they do. And if Larry the cable guy, Bill Engleve, and Jeff Foxworthy by chance end up voicing them, then that will be a win! I don't care if people feel they will full fill any stereo types. So what? Its comedy relief!

shamone wrote:or it will suggest that bay is incapable of making a movie without characters which are narrow stereotypes instead of fully 3 dimensional characters

Actully, it would be the other way around. It would show personality and character in the wreakers.
Its funny, people complain about these bots not having enough character development, but when they get it they still complain! (this was not aimed at you shamone)

Capt.Failure wrote: You do know that Bay is the director, not the writer of the screenplay or script, right? Basic knowledge of how to make a film would help your point of view.

Yes, but its soooo much eaiser to just blame bay instead of the people that are actually responisble for their said jobs.

Starscream GaGa wrote:I've heard Bay works very closely with the Transformers-designers. Besides, he approves all designs and scripts.

NO, HASBRO, the company that owns the TF name, has final say over all robot designs. NOt bay. Cause at the end of the day, they still need to be able to sell toys and merchandise. I don't doubt that Bay works with them, but ultimatly, hasbro is going to give the final go. So if you have a problem with designs, then blame them.

I see what you are saying, but i dont think attaching simple stereotypes to characters and then just not developing these stereotypes into real personalities is a lack of development

And yep i dont blame bay for everything, he works with what he is given, but there is more to that, which i will explain in my next post :-)

by **Triphammer** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 pm

They may be stereotypes of red necks, but red necks are a safe target. Being a southern man myself, I don't think anybody is going to rally to the defense of red necks and call this racist. It's just the way things are. Also, red necks will not whine about it themselves, because they're not exactly known for their whining, so it's win win.

News Credits: 12 · by **robofreak** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:44 pm

I have removed the posts that were signs of trouble happening.

If any more potential flame bait happens in this thread, warnings will be issued. Is that clear?

by **Capt.Failure** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:51 pm

shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote: This is technically me reposting something I posted at the start of this thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If the Wreckers turn out to be a pair of rednecks, which when you get right down to it are racist portrayals of white people, then Bay's officially won the "Troll of the Millenium" award.

And I'll be smiling the whole time. Gotta love it when someone points out a double standard.

And i'll be right there laughing with you! I really hope they do. And if Larry the cable guy, Bill Engleve, and Jeff Foxworthy by chance end up voicing them, then that will be a win! I don't care if people feel they will full fill any stereo types. So what? Its comedy relief!

shamone wrote:or it will suggest that bay is incapable of making a movie without characters which are narrow stereotypes instead of fully 3 dimensional characters

Actully, it would be the other way around. It would show personality and character in the wreakers.
Its funny, people complain about these bots not having enough character development, but when they get it they still complain! (this was not aimed at you shamone)

Capt.Failure wrote: You do know that Bay is the director, not the writer of the screenplay or script, right? Basic knowledge of how to make a film would help your point of view.

Yes, but its soooo much eaiser to just blame bay instead of the people that are actually responisble for their said jobs.

Starscream GaGa wrote:I've heard Bay works very closely with the Transformers-designers. Besides, he approves all designs and scripts.

NO, HASBRO, the company that owns the TF name, has final say over all robot designs. NOt bay. Cause at the end of the day, they still need to be able to sell toys and merchandise. I don't doubt that Bay works with them, but ultimatly, hasbro is going to give the final go. So if you have a problem with designs, then blame them.

I see what you are saying, but i dont think attaching simple stereotypes to characters and then just not developing these stereotypes into real personalities is a lack of development

And yep i dont blame bay for everything, he works with what he is given, but there is more to that, which i will explain in my next post

I can't believe I'm about to agree with shamone, but I am. Something I dislike about DotM already is that the Twins are either not showing up at all or will simply be killed off instead of developed as characters. Considering the characters of the Twins (immature kids fighting in a war) I would have loved to see them show up having learned a thing or two. Hell, they could have taken lessons from Ironhide and become major bad***es, and avenging his death at Sentinel's hands could have worked toward further character development.

But a few people crying foul got them removed instead. Shame really, because all it did is cause a moment of shoddy storytelling the likes of which Bay is often acused of as a director. The blame falls on Hasbro for approving the characters and not being ready to deal with the (unnecessary) flak they caused with their presence.

Short version: They shouldn't have created the characters, then just get rid of them. It's bad writing and bad storytelling.

News Credits: 5 · by **5150 Cruiser** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:13 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
Short version: They shouldn't have created the characters, then just get rid of them. It's bad writing and bad storytelling.

Agreed. But to be fair, like you said, whenever the race card is pulled, its ussualy more trouble than its worth. Hence Bay and Hasbro's offical press release of them being pulled from the film to keep everyone quiet. In a way i understand Bay & Co. position, but i still agree that it was a piss poor decision to not at least have them killed in the begining. At least let them die an honorable death.

by **Capt.Failure** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:21 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
Short version: They shouldn't have created the characters, then just get rid of them. It's bad writing and bad storytelling.

Agreed. But to be fair, like you said, whenever the race card is pulled, its ussualy more trouble than its worth. Hence Bay and Hasbro's offical press release of them being pulled from the film to keep everyone quiet. In a way i understand Bay & Co. position, but i still agree that it was a piss poor decision to not at least have them killed in the begining. At least let them die an honorable death.

It's compounded with the other point you made that ultimately, Hasbro approves these characters and how they are portrayed. They made the call to put the Twins in the film, but they aren't willing to deal with the consequences. This whole thing is half the reason Bay's suddenly started badmouthing his own film (RotF). Hasbro wants to somehow be "forgiven" by the vocal minority of critics and hardcore fans. As Bay himself put it something must have been done right in order for it to be such a success, a clear sign of his own insincerity in the "we screwed up" view he's taken as of late.

I'm just glad Hasbro isn't going to screw this trilogy up too much before it's over, but it makes me fear for the next installments.

News Credits: 5 · by **5150 Cruiser** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:54 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:It's compounded with the other point you made that ultimately, Hasbro approves these characters and how they are portrayed. They made the call to put the Twins in the film, but they aren't willing to deal with the consequences.

Agreed. Ultimately hasbro made the decision to put the twins in the movie, there for they should have carried them all the way. But to be fair, (and i think you can agree to this), i doubt they anticipated the portrayal that critics and some fans saw them. They saw them like we did. Im-mature teenage robots. Nothing else, nothing more. If they knew the **** storm it they were going to bring, wether or not they agreed with it or not, i'm sure they would have changed them around a bit. But again, because some feel the need to be overly politicaly correct, we have characters that had great personalities ditched without an explanation.