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A list on engineering todos, for our favorite toy makers to work on!

1) Truly kibble-free real-life jets

We've seen some great work with SDCC 2016 Exclusive Transformers Soundwave transforming into a flat Android tablet. When can we see a jet that repurposes wing mass ala Titans Return Mindwipe?

2) Truly backpackless fembots

I'm thinking a third party designer will get there first. We've seen magic like Unique Toys Peru Kill!

3) "Suit Up" with telescoping thighs and upper arms that fit the scale of the suited-up robot

This should've been possible from the beginning - why aren't they?

What else? Add to this!

albnok wrote:A list on engineering todos, for our favorite toy makers to work on!

1) Truly kibble-free real-life jets

I think HFTD leader Starscream did a hell of a job at it. I think at the time it was as close as possible to get to a real F-22 Raptor, and IIRC he didn't have any kibble to speak of in either mode.

I think in order to achieve perfect modes, it's probably necessary for a figure to be leader class or larger. Maybe not?

Also, I think it's practically impossible to pull off real-life accuracy while maintaining any semblance to character models, which is what Has/Tak seems to be striving for, in all their lines.

Exactly. With a lot of characters, it's kind of impossible to have kibble free jet mode while still having limbs. New character designs can try to mitigate that, but legacy characters are what they are and there's no getting around it, and even with new designs there's only so much that can be done. Especially in toy form - some engineering just does not scale.

I know how to have backpackless ladies: Give up on insisting on robot modes that are curvy when the vehicle modes aren't, and don't cop out on what integration is possible.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I know how to have backpackless ladies: Give up on insisting on robot modes that are curvy when the vehicle modes aren't, and don't cop out on what integration is possible.

Pretty much this, yeah. It's not like none exist. Prime Arcee is a great example.

It might be a stretch, but Animated Arcee also has very good alt. mode integration. She has a bit of a backpack, but only in the way you'd actually want.

She's also controversial, but I like the Legend Slipsteream / Windblade mold. Wing kibble, but I like wing kibble on plane bots.

Nowadays it seems like the designers have given up. Or, at least, that they're obsessed with making Arcee look G1 in both modes.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I know how to have backpackless ladies: Give up on insisting on robot modes that are curvy when the vehicle modes aren't, and don't cop out on what integration is possible.

Pretty much this, yeah. It's not like none exist. Prime Arcee is a great example.

It might be a stretch, but Animated Arcee also has very good alt. mode integration. She has a bit of a backpack, but only in the way you'd actually want.

She's also controversial, but I like the Legend Slipsteream / Windblade mold. Wing kibble, but I like wing kibble on plane bots.

Nowadays it seems like the designers have given up. Or, at least, that they're obsessed with making Arcee look G1 in both modes.

Animated Arcee is one of the best fembot toys we've ever gotten IMO. Perfect balance of a feminine design with a workable transformation (the "bell bottom" legs are a stroke of genius). More fembots designed like Animated Arcee would be great, at least providing we didn't go back to the dark times of every fembot being a motorbike. Hopefully, with ER Arcee hopefully having satisfied the mandated requirement for a G1-accurate Arcee, the next rendition of her in a collector line will be more creatively designed.

Regarding jets, HasTak used to be much better about them. ROTF Breakaway/Thrust has a stellar jet mode and a cool robot mode, for example. As a matter of fact, given how similar the transformations are (cockpit sucks into torso with canopy revealing head, engines and wings forming backpack etc) I wish they'd used that conversion as the basis for SS Blitzwing blown up to Voyager, rather than what we got. Now to be fair on HasTak, jets are very tricky to get right, as despite being very big volume-wise there's surprisingly little mass to work with (especially slimmer jets without F15 styled box bodied fuselages), but there's definitely room for improvement. Ironically, ER Starscream has a pretty decent jet mode with a rather dire robot mode, but that's largely by virtue of being an upscale of a 14 year old toy reworked to have the bare minimum of acceptable articulation on a modern figure. Ironically, TR Blitzwing has a pretty decent jet mode, especially for a triple changer, with the only kibble being small tread chunks under the wings and the tank turret on the underside.

What I've noticed HasTak AND 3Ps doing a lot these days is relying heavily on faux parts rather than going the extra mile to have the transformation done properly. Personally I'd rather the robot mode not be 100% proportionally accurate to the character model but have the "correct" transformation than have a marginally more accurate robot mode at the expense of fake parts, a cheating transformation and often a compromised alt mode. This is bad enough with CHUG/SS (did Runamuck really need a fake chest?) but when you see things like modern MPs faking the entire alt mode, that's pretty disgraceful. Minor bits like Prime's grill stomach I can accept (albeit less so now that Magic Square's Prime did it with no faux parts at all AND a sensible transformation AND a really good robot mode) but when you see things like MP-44 with an absurdly overcomplicated transformation that blatantly cheats and disregards the spirit of the original conversion scheme- never mind one of the simplest and most iconic in the brand- it's hard not to think "Where did we go wrong?".

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I know how to have backpackless ladies: Give up on insisting on robot modes that are curvy when the vehicle modes aren't, and don't cop out on what integration is possible.

Pretty much this, yeah. It's not like none exist. Prime Arcee is a great example.

It might be a stretch, but Animated Arcee also has very good alt. mode integration. She has a bit of a backpack, but only in the way you'd actually want.

She's also controversial, but I like the Legend Slipsteream / Windblade mold. Wing kibble, but I like wing kibble on plane bots.

Nowadays it seems like the designers have given up. Or, at least, that they're obsessed with making Arcee look G1 in both modes.

Well, I think G1 Arcee can pull it off if they really work at it (since her altmode is curvy too), but it'd take better kibble compression and going for the T30 toy's integration level at absolute minimum.

Chromia, Firestar, Moonracer, etc. on the other hand... That's where HasTak should just plain give up on most or all of the robot mode curves.

Well, I'm not a big fan of the female limb mode in general. It's a shame they used it to make nearly every female Autobot lately.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, I'm not a big fan of the female limb mode in general. It's a shame they used it to make nearly every female Autobot lately.

Well, people wanted a complete dedicated limb set for Elita, and the rest of her squad, so recycling that mold and engineering was the cheapest way.. It's particularly disappointing for me with Firestar, since it's nothing like her truck mode.
In any case, the integration would be a lot better if they gave up on the super curvy robot modes. Like, if you look at Chromia's animation model you can clearly see the halves of her windshield on the front of her legs. And Firestar's legs very obviously form her truck bed... Stuff like that.

Regarding the OP bringing up clean fighter jet modes, just check the Maverick thread. If they take the steps needed to make sure the jet mode is perfectly clean, then the effect that has on the robot mode aesthetic will have everybody whining WAAAA IT WOOKS WIKE A KNOCKOFF WAAAA

That complex/fiddly does not automatically equal good.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Regarding the OP bringing up clean fighter jet modes, just check the Maverick thread. If they take the steps needed to make sure the jet mode is perfectly clean, then the effect that has on the robot mode aesthetic will have everybody whining WAAAA IT WOOKS WIKE A KNOCKOFF WAAAA

To be fair, the plastic on that thing looks nasty. A shame as the actual mold looks cool, but the weirdly see-through beige plastic is pretty KO-y.

Black Hat wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Regarding the OP bringing up clean fighter jet modes, just check the Maverick thread. If they take the steps needed to make sure the jet mode is perfectly clean, then the effect that has on the robot mode aesthetic will have everybody whining WAAAA IT WOOKS WIKE A KNOCKOFF WAAAA

To be fair, the plastic on that thing looks nasty. A shame as the actual mold looks cool, but the weirdly see-through beige plastic is pretty KO-y.

1. Oh, I saw plenty of people bashing the design for things like the thin arms, the hollow bottoms of the forearms (even though cover panels for foldaway hands have always been a luxury and we haven't seen sliding hands in ages; the current design team avoids those just like they avoid telescoping legs), and the knees being invisble when the legs aren't bent (necessary for the engines to look perfect in jet mode).
2. I'm pretty sure that what everyone thinks is see-through plastic is just an optical illusion created by the weathering and the lighting. If the plastic was actually see-through, he'd have paler and possibly even tinted shadows.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:That complex/fiddly does not automatically equal good.

I think that's partly fans' fault, since so many people have thrown strawberry wobblers over toys not being complex (especially larger ones) in reviews... Although it's not entirely fans' fault. Sometimes it's trying ludicruously hard for cartoon accuracy. *looks pointedly at MP Lio Convoy*

Rodimus Prime wrote:

albnok wrote:A list on engineering todos, for our favorite toy makers to work on!

1) Truly kibble-free real-life jets

I think HFTD leader Starscream did a hell of a job at it. I think at the time it was as close as possible to get to a real F-22 Raptor, and IIRC he didn't have any kibble to speak of in either mode.

I think in order to achieve perfect modes, it's probably necessary for a figure to be leader class or larger. Maybe not?

Also, I think it's practically impossible to pull off real-life accuracy while maintaining any semblance to character models, which is what Has/Tak seems to be striving for, in all their lines.

To acheive the PERFECT jet, the jet must take top priority.

Super Gobots Leader 1 did it.





MP-03 Starscream





ROTF voyager Startosphere


Transformers Revenge of the Fallen Stratosphere Gallery


Transformers Revenge of the Fallen Stratosphere Gallery




And so much more.

Stratosphere and Lugnut have a much easier time of it, though, since they're fat-fuselaged jets (a heavy cargo plane and a bomber, respectively). The real trick is doing it with fighter jets, because they're a lot slimmer and so often there's that hollow alley or the plane's just outright thin. The MP-03/MP-11 mold still has to compromise on that part, filling that space with parts of the central body.

Leader-1 achieves it, but Leader-1 is A. a brick and B. Uses a feature that Warden's team avoids like the plague: Telescoping legs.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Leader-1 achieves it, but Leader-1 is A. a brick and B. Uses a feature that Warden's team avoids like the plague: Telescoping legs.

To be fair, there's that 1980's compromises. I'm pretty sure we could achieve a Leader 1 with great articulations with modern tech. It always depend on the bot mode reusing all the parts of the plane as it's core design, rather than being an afterthought like for the champion, Universe Silverbolt.

The marvelous HFTD Highbrow is also one of the cleanest planeformers ever.


Transformers Hunt For The Decepticons Highbrow Gallery

Transformers Hunt For The Decepticons Highbrow Gallery

Transformers Hunt For The Decepticons Highbrow Gallery

There's also Generations Scourge, who is the ultimate in clear underbelly.


Transformers Generations Scourge Gallery

Transformers Generations Scourge Gallery

Transformers Generations Scourge Gallery

But proper JETS? Appart the old Super Gobots Leader 1, I'm stumped. Jets are by nature, very thin and it will be really hard to hide a whole robot in this usually thin vehicle.

Eeyup. Well, things like fighter jets and the Concord at least. The most that most fighter jets have below are the engines and the intakes, usually with a hollow alley between (the F-22 is a rare exception, it has a relatively beefy undercarriage for a fighter jet).

And so when someone requires, say, an F-14 Tomcat to be as close to accurate as physically possible, top and bottom... That's going to have an impact on the robot design.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:And so when someone requires, say, an F-14 Tomcat to be as close to accurate as physically possible, top and bottom... That's going to have an impact on the robot design.

That's why we need to go back to most of the 1980's designs, where it was the vehicle first, then the robot came from the vehicle. Not the other way around.

This goes for cars too. There's way too much robots that only wear a "car suit" rather than a car becoming a robot.

I own and LOVE Hubcap, but he's the best example of a bot just wearing a car suit:




Most of the movie bots have that problem because of the overcomplicated design of the bot mode.





The Gobots were bricks, but most cars could be passed as normal Matchbox cars with no clue it even transform. From all sides. This dosent make the bot suffer at all and some incredible designs can come up. Like the stellar Gobots Tux.





Or Gobots Crasher.





For me, Transformers are at their best when they reuse a maximum of vehicle parts in their bot mode instead of discarding them like muschrooms on a rotting log.

Thing is, when you lean too hard that way, you get figures that are less "Metal people who turn into cars/whatever" and "Cars that happen to take humanoid shape" (at the worst, stuff like the Battlechargers and Throttlebots). And some designs like that can be hard to articulate...
I think the Diaclone cars struck a fairly decent balance.

I don't think using part of the altmode for aesthetic flair (like Crosshairs' coattails) is really discarding it, although the AoE designs have a bad case of "robot in a car suit" or a "slightly car-themed suit" (*cough*Optimus*cough*)

I have a love/hate feeling with Knight Optimus. I love a Knight Optimus and it's super cool. But having to take out a magnifying glass just to find the tiny truck bits is stupid.

However, that design is PERFECT for Knight Megatron because he's just a spaceship from the start so he's allowed to hide everything.

Oh and yes, the Diaclone Transformers are perfect all over. Even Ratchet and Ironhide, if we consider them to be non-sentient mechs piloted by humans.

Something HasTak have grasped on occasion but keep forgetting about: Not phoning in the ladies

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Something HasTak have grasped on occasion but keep forgetting about: Not phoning in the ladies

The female form is hard to make out of cars. So it's shellformers central. But bikes are way more easy. TF Prime Arcee and even Energon Arcee are just perfect.

Speaking of fem-bikes, I want the Shiva sisters from FF13. Yuri transformation and all!

-Kanrabat- wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Something HasTak have grasped on occasion but keep forgetting about: Not phoning in the ladies

The female form is hard to make out of cars. So it's shellformers central. But bikes are way more easy. TF Prime Arcee and even Energon Arcee are just perfect.

Speaking of fem-bikes, I want the Shiva sisters from FF13. Yuri transformation and all!

Hot take: As boring as FFXIII is, the creature designs are top notch. I still flick through the strategy guide for XIII-2 for the bestiary, I love some of those critters (the frogs especially).

Regarding doing fembots right, I think the key is finding the right balance between alt mode integration with applied shellforming and proper distribution of kibble across the bot mode. It's possible to still convey a feminine body type without just piling all the vehicle kibble onto the backpack and making the robot mode into a mechanical barbie doll; it just requires good sculpting for key parts and getting the base proportions right (that is, the shoulders not being too much broader than the hips).

FF-13 was not great and I regret Vanille was not the true main character. Lighting is bland and stale like a butter less toast that lay forgotten on the plate for a week. I barely played 13-2 and never bothered to buy 13-3.

And if I cheat a bit and talk 3P, Fans-Hobby Athena is a prime example of a car fembot done right. Sure, she have the "top car" backpack, but it's not uncommon among movie figures. Plus she's a headmaster too!

She will soon be in my hands. Can't wait!

Yeah, she does look rather excellent, doesn't she? I still wish we'd get a CHUG Minerva...

Black Hat wrote:Yeah, she does look rather excellent, doesn't she? I still wish we'd get a CHUG Minerva...

A missed opportunity in TR because we could also get Nightbeat out of it too. But as Siege and Earthrise proves it, Headmasters are far from done. So there's might be a chance we will get an official one sooner or later.

Speaking as a show fan, I think she looks like garbage because the transformation is back to front.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Something HasTak have grasped on occasion but keep forgetting about: Not phoning in the ladies

The female form is hard to make out of cars. So it's shellformers central. But bikes are way more easy. TF Prime Arcee and even Energon Arcee are just perfect.

1. It is if you say "To hell with them needing to be curvy like human women." Especially when the altmode has no native curves.
2. Laying aside the shellforming caused by insisting on curves when the altmode had none, there's also the thing of making them moldmates with minimal to no altmode changes even when they had very distinct altmodes as well as size differences. We saw it with PotP Moonracer and Firestar, and now ER Arcee and the Netflix Elita.