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Something I never realized until you showed both MP Starscreams is that they have slightly different alt-modes. The original quite obviously turns into an F-15E Strike Eagle that has the CFT panniers along the sides, and they are pretty much just kibble in robot mode. It's harder to tell on the newer MP Starscream because he has a less accurate underbody, but from the looks of it it doesn't have the CFTs along the sides, probably meaning that his alt-mode is an F-15A/C

Still don't like Sandstorm, he's the only Voyager I didn't buy in the Pre-Combiner Wars Generations line. I don't like either of his altmodes (obvious treads around the propellers and wheels too narrow to be useful in sand) and that head couldn't be further away from my ideal head from the original figure, or even the cartoon that I want. To me the guy needs a square head, preferably with a mask. What Hasbro made would be like giving Brawn ears or Soundwave a mohawk in my eyes.

That all aside, here's one from Beast Wars that probably very few people looked close enough at to realize they weren't the same mold. In fact they don't even share a single part.






Beast Wars Wolfang gallery

Someone at Hasbro really liked dogs. Shame Tigatron didn't get this kind of attention.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:that head couldn't be further away from my ideal head from the original figure, or even the cartoon that I want. To me the guy needs a square head, preferably with a mask. What Hasbro made would be like giving Brawn ears or Soundwave a mohawk in my eyes.

Uh, no. While you're entitled to your opinion, just because it doesn't fit your ideal vision of the character does not mean it is not representative of the character itself. It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.

I think that people fail to realize with UM and PMOP is they were likely designed to have that semi-bendable soft plastic from the start because their transformations really wouldn't work without it. The transformation of the legs rely on the plastic to have a little bit of give otherwise they wouldn't be able to tab in correctly. Knowing the right places to use the right materials is part of toy design and the UM/PMOP mold excels in that.

IMO that's poor design. Relying on the flex of plastic over a hinge is just a bad idea; it negatively affects the plastic of the rest of the toy, and over time it WILL weaken and it WILL break.

Railbomb wrote:EDIT (again cause I'm dumb): The front of the legs aren't supposed to interlock on the back of the trailer. Those teeth are for the trailer panels that wrap around the legs. They didn't forget anything.

Thanks man, I had not realized that. That does improve my thoughts on the figure, especially since how they added those panels to the toy is my favourite part of the retool.
I am still not it's biggest fan though and preffer the Magnus version.

Oh and that's cool about k9 and wolfang. Reminds me of G1 BB and Cliffjumper.

I noticed that as Transformers fans, we always seem to LOVE nitpicking every single insignificant flaws we can find. I'm guilty of it too.

As if...

We just love to hate.


Yeah yeah, silly excuse to post this but I could'nt keep the awesome to myself.
Please don't hurt me!

-Kanrabat- wrote:I noticed that as Transformers fans, we always seem to LOVE nitpicking every single insignificant flaws we can find. I'm guilty of it too.

As if...

We just love to hate.


Yeah yeah, silly excuse to post this but I could'nt keep the awesome to myself.
Please don't hurt me!

It's a good thing you posted
I will not hurt

-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.

What does UFO even mean in this context?

Zeedust wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.

What does UFO even mean in this context?

Take it, chug it, and see people wondering WTF is this flying thing.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Zeedust wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.

What does UFO even mean in this context?

Take it, chug it, and see people wondering WTF is this flying thing.

This has only raised more questions. We need to go deeper.

Kurona wrote:It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.

You really think this...



...plus this...



...equel this?



Granted, I exaggerate by calling the figure head "square", I realize it's the same as Bumblebee or PM Prime and you have to ignore the unsculpted empty space. But the only things in common are the vents, the ridge on the forehead, and the colors. I don't like the way the helmet blends into the face vents rather than being two different parts. I don't like the lack of a mouth plate (I'm sure a TR version would fix this like all of the other G1-toy based stuff). And I don't like that he's missing his head crest, instead just vaguely sculpting something into his forehead. Plus I don't like how long his face is, I preferred his squat head, it gave him more character rather than looking so narrow and Springer-ish. For me the ideal head would have been a full 3D sculpt of the original head, complete with crest and mask, but if they had to do away with the mask then only remove the mask and keep the rest of the features.

And besides, the head sculpt was only one of several issues I had with that figure's design. At the end of the day it's my opinion and my money and I'm free to do with either as I choose.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Kurona wrote:It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.

You really think this...



...plus this...



...equel this?

Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.

Kurona wrote:Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.

Sourced, but not sourced well. Is it really successful if it's missing half the things that made the original sculpt interesting?

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Kurona wrote:Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.

Sourced, but not sourced well. Is it really successful if it's missing half the things that made the original sculpt interesting?

Emerje

To be fair, not many of the G1 headsculpts were too interesting later on. There were a lot of "not quite Optimus Prime" heads and Sandstorm was one of them. The new head takes a few more distinctive features from the head and makes it distinguishable.

not even a mention of titans return fortress maximus

Couldn't agree more with the inclusion of the Seeker Coneheads on this list. Even though I usually purchase Masterpiece figures to be my definitive version of a character, I don't see myself getting rid of my set of these after we get Thrust and Dirge in that form.

As someone who doesn't collect Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors, Blast Off/Strafe and Onslaught/Hot Spot both dropped my jaw when I found out they were shared molds.
I also think the Universe Sideswipe/Sunstreaker solution was brilliant, particularly given their original announcement as a straight-up new head redeco, as was the Generations Tracks/Wheeljack pairing.
The Masterpiece Starscream mold also deserves credit for more the recent Conehead remold.

I'm easier to please than most but I thought that power master prime is a great figure harking back to the original in a great way. I'd obviously have liked a robot transforming into a cab for both UM and prime. My main criticism is the legs are a bit screwed up without ankle tilts and the Takara version though addresses the issue doesn't look that great.

I thought sandstorm a pretty good toy, quite a nice update but I think that if they had to redo him now homaging the original toy more, they'd do a better job.

My favourite current retool has to be scourge into highbrow, from generations, sideswipe and sun streaker were pretty good as was weheeljack into tracks. From g1, think grapple and inferno were good uses of the same mould...

-Kanrabat- wrote:
Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.

That's why redecos is probably the better term than repaints. There might be figures where the changes are mostly or all paint ops, but usually it's changes in plastic colors.



I disagree entirely about Ultra Magnus. The original design was pretty good IMO, and they should have used that one on the show instead of the (IMO) fairly dull Optimus remold.

There should still be a UM on the list, but it should be G1. Even if the fiction never touched on it, having a guy who was Optimus in a different color that could merge with his trailer to make a supermode. All us kids thought that was just about the awesomest when we first saw it (well before the movie came out). It took an already great toy and made it better. What more can you ask of a retool?

Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.

Kurona wrote:Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.

Exactly. No new retool here.

Although I'd really love to get my hands on a original Diaclone Ultra Magnus to actually have "Optimus Prime" in what could have been his first super mode. But this will remain a dream because I'm not paying that kind of money for that. Even for the reissue.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Andrius wrote:I'm also particularly fond of the Dark Energon line. I'm not sure if they can be counted as true retools, since the modes are generally the same, but I'm willing to give a pass based on all the translucent bits. (Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)

Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.

No, they are reDECOS. They changed the plastic colors, as well as the paint apps. That's the deco. Redeco.

Andrius wrote:(Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)

Actually the most minor retool you could find would be something like enlarging a tab so it fits its socket better, or switching the gearing in CW Optimus's hips.

Kurona wrote:Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.

Yes, actually. They widened the front axle of the cab so he could lock into the trailer for armored mode.

Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.

Tiby wrote:Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.

Not everyone here really cares about the distinction, and it's a really minor one as they only differ in timing of the design: before/during vs. after completion . Besides, didn't the Top 5 Pretools get a list already?

Tiby wrote:
Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.


Not everyone here really cares about the distinction, and it's a really minor one as they only differ in timing of the design: before/during vs. after completion . Besides, didn't the Top 5 Pretools get a list already?

My point exactly. There is a clear difference.