The Energon Pub

As soon as I saw the MP Seeker mold on the list, I stopped reading.

There should be a list of toys who start out hot and wind up being hated over time. "Top 5 dated toys" list?

MP Seeeker - I have just the original of this. It's interesting that the original is the remould, purposefully giving us those hip kibble things after the original prototype was shown. What a mistake! I liked him well enough, but not enough to rebuy constantly.

AOE Grimmy - This guy looked terrible to me when I saw him on the shelf. Is there some fun factor I'm unaware of with this guy? Meanwhile I did buy the voyager as part of the G1 redeco sets and found myself liking that guy. Not perfect, but much more fun than I thought he'd be (same with the other Dinos in the set, really).

FoC Seekers - When they came out everyone was dumping on the Classics Seeker mould and hyping this up as the next best thing in Seekers and I was considering getting the main three since I knew I could do so quickly. I picked up Thundercracker and was pretty disappointed. For the reasons mentioned in the list, actually! Still happy with my classic seeker army. Flawed mould? Dated? Poorly articulated? Way too small? All true, but I guess I still like him, especially in numbers. Still want a G1 styled Voyager, but it will never, ever happen.

Megatron - Yeah, this guy has problems. And he's too big. Why is he leader class? Why so much larger than Prime? Why are his shoulders set so low on his body?? The sticks jutting out in the wrong place kill this guy for me.

Thunderblast - I saw her once at a con and was surprised at how lackluster she looked. Sure I'd like more female representation in my cons, but she has a giant boat on her back and that's all she is. I'm surprised she's so liked.

MP Prime - The hole int he crotch bothers me, but I feel like you missed out on other, more serious, issues. Like the nack of the truck more being all wrong. Basically the legs are just too thick to make that part convincing. Unlike other G1 cabs you NEED that trailer to make the truck mode convincing. And this is not a problem found on the original, so it kinda sets the mould back a bit.

CaptainMagic wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:MP Prime as an honorable mention makes me cringe. I got that mold and it is wonderful. I love the frikkin balls off that thing.

Does this mean the crotch hole is your fault?

oh Primus...

But really though, with that MP mold, I don't really see the complaints with the back section. The visible crotch to me is forgivable, but there really doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the rest. I think the feet look fine on the back and the multiple hinges to move leg details out the way makes the back end look good overall

Reading the comments it seems that I overestimated how much the community likes (or simply is ambivalent towards) Thunderblast. Like someone mentioned, I guess when you dont care much for a mold and dont like it much, you wont really say anything, which is fair. I still think it gets a pass it shouldnt get and my opinion over the mold didnt change, but it being number 1 doesnt make much sense anymore, so I switched the order around, just so that this list works better for future reads. Thanks for all your great feedback! And yes that means number 1 is now Leader Megatron

Qwan wrote: And the head in the cab? You can't see it when the windows are closed, and I can almost guarantee that actual trucks don't open up like that - they're a Matrix-door/way to put Spike in, not a display option. Saying that the head being visible when those are open makes it bad, is like saying that TR Bumblebee is bad because you can see his head when you open up that whole roof-cockpit-thing.

Maybe I wasnt clear, but that part about the head being visible was more in terms of comparing it with MP 1. The idea is that this toy should be an update so be better in every way (at least, I assume thats what we hope for) but yet it introduces flaws where there werent before. Its not a huge flaw, sure, but its still something that was done better before.

Tyrannus Megatronus wrote:*cries at the mention of CW Leader G1 deco Megatron on list*

Though I did find myself agreeing with the points expressed actually. Nice job on this list.

Thats very kind of you thanks!

Oh man so many great comments to respond to, like that gen armada starscream comment. That mold didnt come up in my head, but why? I have to play with it again. And the idea of a toy being really hot at first and then dieing out, maybe most overhyped? Though I do feel that it all still falls within overrated. Its like our taste has evolved but the reviews and praises are all from when the toy was first around. Some toys age better than others. What is hilarious about that MP seeker mold is that it is both a toy that has died in hype over the years BUT that is also current, since that mold is still being used

Any other toys that were super hot but that died down big time?

I feel that's a thing that happens a lot and far too much for a list to be compiled; the culture we live in focuses extremely heavily on hype. Just look at how many movies people hype up and then a week or two after their release they're rarely talked about again. Hell, it's to the point we get hyped for trailers. As a culture we're simply obsessed with hyping things up.

Kurona wrote:I feel that's a thing that happens a lot and far too much for a list to be compiled; the culture we live in focuses extremely heavily on hype. Just look at how many movies people hype up and then a week or two after their release they're rarely talked about again. Hell, it's to the point we get hyped for trailers. As a culture we're simply obsessed with hyping things up.

This is also how people get into actual debt buying third party toys. I know this isn't the 'right place' for it, but that scene is driven off of almost nothing anymore but bloggers and youtubers hyping up releases with review samples at an absolutely insane churn rate. Completely unsustainable to actually keep up with the Joneses unless that's your only collecting focus.

Anyhow, back on topic, the more I chew on it the more it irks me to see MP-10 mentioned anywhere on here. Closest thing to a perfect depiction of G1 cartoon Optimus ever = overrated? That's total tripe and I just had to say something else, sorry. Probably been beaten into the ground already in this thread.

ScottyP wrote:

Kurona wrote:I feel that's a thing that happens a lot and far too much for a list to be compiled; the culture we live in focuses extremely heavily on hype. Just look at how many movies people hype up and then a week or two after their release they're rarely talked about again. Hell, it's to the point we get hyped for trailers. As a culture we're simply obsessed with hyping things up.

This is also how people get into actual debt buying third party toys. I know this isn't the 'right place' for it, but that scene is driven off of almost nothing anymore but bloggers and youtubers hyping up releases with review samples at an absolutely insane churn rate. Completely unsustainable to actually keep up with the Joneses unless that's your only collecting focus.

I don't think this is true at all. I am pretty new to the third party scene, and I don't watch youtube reviewers or read reviews at all, and I've based all my 3P buying so far off of things I've seen in person and then other products that look interesting from the same companies. That's not any different than just buying official Hasbro products, the obsession with which will/can/has also driven people to debt. If the 3P scene really is driven by 'nothing more' than what amounts to be fans, it's because it's a small scene and they are smaller companies. Not every toy maker has a propaganda wing like Seibertron at its disposal.

Quickly stepping in here, to redirect to the 3P section here: unlicensed-and-ko-transformers-toys-f215.php

The (very interesting) discussion may continue over there.

william-james88 wrote:

Qwan wrote: And the head in the cab? You can't see it when the windows are closed, and I can almost guarantee that actual trucks don't open up like that - they're a Matrix-door/way to put Spike in, not a display option. Saying that the head being visible when those are open makes it bad, is like saying that TR Bumblebee is bad because you can see his head when you open up that whole roof-cockpit-thing.

Maybe I wasnt clear, but that part about the head being visible was more in terms of comparing it with MP 1. The idea is that this toy should be an update so be better in every way (at least, I assume thats what we hope for) but yet it introduces flaws where there werent before. Its not a huge flaw, sure, but its still something that was done better before.

Ah, that makes more sense. I think it was less that you were unclear, and more that I missed the point.
I'll give you that then, that an "updated" toy shouldn't introduce new flaws - but then again, we just had a whole list about that didn't we? Seems like it happens a fair bit more often than it should.

On toys that were hyped up onto a pedestal that they then promptly fell off of, I think a lot of the Movie toys fall under this category thanks to the addition of an external hype machine on top of what the fandom normally creates for itself. Take AoE Scorn, even if he's actually a bad example, but we'll see. Around when he first came out, he was the best thing ever and everyone needed him because he was an absolute masterpiece (and I fell into that too, picking him up for an exorbitant price as soon as I possibly could). Then time goes on, the movie comes out, Scorn is in the background for all of twenty seconds (was he in the movie? I don't actually even know. I rest my case), and people just kind of... forget about the toy. Sure it's still good, and (rightfully) often seen as the best the AoE line had to offer, but I'm doubtful that it's anyone's collection centerpiece at this point. In the spirit of this list - things that were okay but seen as much better, rather than just bad things seen as good - I think Scorn is a good example of that hype mentality dying down pretty much straight away.

(And now it looks like we're all set to do the same sort of thing again, with Voyager Scorn this time. I don't even remotely want or need another - larger, more expensive - figure of a character that I give literally zero cares about, and yet I'm still starting to consider buying him; because the new figure has reignited the hype for the previous Scorn, and in some weird circular fashion, that resurfacing love for the old toy is making me assume that the new one's once again going to be the best and greatest thing ever.)

CaptainMagic wrote:But here's my question: why doesn't Gen Armada Starscream get the same kind of attention? That's a toy that shares every single flaw of the FoC mold: the visible head (now in translucent orange for extra visibility!), the legs are a poorly defined lump at the back, the plastic on the weapons is terrifyingly fragile, and it introduces new problems to boot. Namely, the arms just hang off the jet, the cockpit droops down at a sad angle, and the arm articulation is pretty wonky, which will always enrage me on a toy with swords. And yet, the few times I've seen him discussed, it seems like people generally like him. I'm guessing everyone else stays quiet because they don't like the toy and don't care about it, but this is the one that deserves more attention and ranting IMO. It takes the FoC mold's flaws and makes them a precedent to be followed.

Problem is all of the things you call flaws are considered its high points since they're all found on the original Armada figure. The visible head and legs and drooping cockpit are there by design. The sword isn't really that fragile and the joint is "made to break" and can pop back together easily. The articulation could be better, but you can say that about most deluxe figures, this isn't a unique flaw of the figure. This is a figure that does exactly what it's supposed to do, update the original Armada jet mold, and it does that very well.

So I'm thinking, if visible heads and legs are what makes a figure overrated then what does that say about Classics and Generations Jetfire? Not only are the legs visible, but so are the entire arms and hands on the Classics figure. I realize it's all part of trying to recapture the look of the original figure (which hid the arms away, instead having a visible head), but why is it OK for Jetfire but not OK for the FOC Seekers or Armada Starscream?

Emerje

I didn't like Megatron until I saw it in non-stock photos. Then I liked it well enough to take a chance on buying. It's underrated if anything. It's clearly the best g1 based version of the character

Too few steps? Then go play with an alternator aka frustratonator. It's not like it autotransforms or just gets stood up. It looks good in both modes, and has enough steps to get between them without any unneeded weirdness.

honestly, the classics seeker mold deserves to be on here. the thing has garbage articulation (no biceps swivel, no thigh swivel, hindered elbows, you really can't pose it in a way that looks good), the guns get in the way of what arm articulation there is, and it has a nosecone hanging off the back of it's head! it's not the worst mold, but why on earth does everyone say it's so dang good?

why on earth does everyone say it's so dang good?

Because it's the only choice if you want a G1-ish Seeker that fits into a Classics collection where you can get all six Seekers. It's also the only choice if you want to make a Seeker army, thanks to exclusives and knockoffs filling the ranks.

But that's a good example of what I mean by toys that were once praised and have fallen out of favour. I haven't seen anyone praise that mould in years aside from it's capacity of "looks like G1," "is about the right size," and "can army build".

And it's me doing most of that, lol.

Any other toys that were super hot but that died down big time?

A lot of 3Ps. Like, all the early ones are considered duds now by the general community. Rule of thumb: if it's been replaced it's considered a dud. I don't get it, but there it is.

Non-3P, Classics Prime springs to mind. Generally I see a lot of negativity towards anything connected with this mould now whereas it used to be considered great.

I see a lot of Alternators hate too. Can't point you to any specific thread.

I want it on record that I brought up the Classics Seekers first.

Seriously, though, it's nice to see I'm not the only one who hopes they never dredge that mold up again.

william-james88 wrote:

bvzxa wrote:I have Thunderblast...its a shell former of the worst kind. However it has a certain appeal being a female and a Decepticon.

So is Prime Airachnid and yet people see no appeal in that toy right?

I think people didn't take to Airachnid because she was such a poor match for her CGI model and she couldn't do that spider mode she was always doing on the cartoon (and was kinda named after).

CaptainMagic wrote:About the FoC seekers: I agree that they're overrated.

(snip)

But here's my question: why doesn't Gen Armada Starscream get the same kind of attention? That's a toy that shares every single flaw of the FoC mold: the visible head (now in translucent orange for extra visibility!), the legs are a poorly defined lump at the back, the plastic on the weapons is terrifyingly fragile, and it introduces new problems to boot. Namely, the arms just hang off the jet, the cockpit droops down at a sad angle, and the arm articulation is pretty wonky, which will always enrage me on a toy with swords. And yet, the few times I've seen him discussed, it seems like people generally like him. I'm guessing everyone else stays quiet because they don't like the toy and don't care about it, but this is the one that deserves more attention and ranting IMO. It takes the FoC mold's flaws and makes them a precedent to be followed.

Because it's meant to be an update of the Armada toy. And if you hate where the arms are on this one, be glad they don't jut out in front like the one it was based on.

ScottyP wrote:Anyhow, back on topic, the more I chew on it the more it irks me to see MP-10 mentioned anywhere on here. Closest thing to a perfect depiction of G1 cartoon Optimus ever = overrated?

The G1 cartoon should be [BLEEP]ing banned until everything else stops getting treated as filler. Same goes for those stupid Bay movies, too.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Non-3P, Classics Prime springs to mind. Generally I see a lot of negativity towards anything connected with this mould now whereas it used to be considered great.

This may be an especially odd set of circumstances, but I've never owned any version of the Classics Prime mold and I'm still on the lookout to get one. From my standpoint (not yet having any Optimii that fit the bill for "CHUG Prime" for me), I honestly feel like Classics Prime still does the best job as a CHUG version of the great leader. Of course, with Power of the Primes coming up I don't doubt we'll get another version of old Oppy, and maybe this one will be the new "definitive" version - but at this point from an 'outsider perspective', I actually do still think it's great (or at least, the best Optimus we have available from the line/s).

Zeedust wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

bvzxa wrote:I have Thunderblast...its a shell former of the worst kind. However it has a certain appeal being a female and a Decepticon.

So is Prime Airachnid and yet people see no appeal in that toy right?

I think people didn't take to Airachnid because she was such a poor match for her CGI model and she couldn't do that spider mode she was always doing on the cartoon (and was kinda named after).

Well, that and she's an actually awful toy. (Remember the head situation, in particular?) Thunderblast at least is an "okay" robot with a giant boat on her back; Prime Airachnid is just...


...yeah...

Hoo boy, what a thread! I actually don't have too much of an issue with the list, but I'll go on and add my own thoughts to the subject matter.

I agree whole heartedly with CW Megatron. I got really caught up in the hype train for this figure and was really looking forward to it. Once I finally got it in hand, all I ever felt from it was disappointment. Really, all it has going for it are the working treads, and head sculpt. Virtually no articulation, proportions are all out of place, that worthlessly puny excuse for a fusion cannon. This toy was just pure fail.

While I really like the MP-11 mold, I agree with your thoughts on it. MP-10 I love, but even it has room for improvement. My guess is MP-40 will be a new Optimus mold.

Here are the figures I would have put on the list:

MP-33 Inferno

For the life of me, I don't get the extreme love this figure gets. Especially when there are obviously superior 3rd party versions out there, no matter how badly this site management wants to pretend otherwise. Inferno is way to plain to be a Masterpiece figure, though he would make a great Chug figure. Grapple has only the tiniest bit of added detail to the mold, and ends up looking soooo much better. Seriously, I think fans of this mold are in denial.

Combiner Wars, the whole line

Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few CW figures I like and have, but the overwhelming amount of repaints forced by the line wide gimmick really limits this line. I don't think it deserves the level of love it gets.

Masterpiece Shockwave

This is another figure I was excited for, but felt nothing but disappointment. Masterpiece figures are supposed to be something exceptional, and this one was little more than a slightly updated G1 version. It too seemed to suffer from the silly direction Takara seems to be taking the line in (hyper cartoon accuracy) Shocky was quickly sold. Unfortunately, I'm also not overly fond of the 3rd party offerings for him, so my MP shelf may permanently be lacking a Shockwave.

Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors Devastator

I love the idea of this figure, but the individual bots were too simple looking for the size. I like how they wanted to make Devey nice and big, but the constructicons end up looking like Tonka play toys. If they had made the bots deluxe size, this would have been perfect. As is, its big for the sake of being big, and just kinda out of place in a collection.

You know Densh, I'm sorry to hear that you don't love ol' Devy. I absolutely firkkin love the balls off (stealing that one, D-Max! ) of my Unite Warriors One. In fact, I even prefer to display the Constructicons individually rather than combined.

Unite Warriors Devy is almost perfect as Masterpiece filler, especially with the current cartoon trend. The individual Constructicons scale well at Voyager class and the 18" Devy is just about right (especially if you go by the Marvel Comics scale which didn't have the ridiculous mass shifting of most modern comics).

Emerje

Nemesis Maximo wrote:You know Densh, I'm sorry to hear that you don't love ol' Devy. I absolutely firkkin love the balls off (stealing that one, D-Max! ) of my Unite Warriors One. In fact, I even prefer to display the Constructicons individually rather than combined.

Well if you had left the balls on him, then he would've been more Movie-accurate than G1 and nobody wants that.

I adore my UW Devastator too, though I understand what the Denshmeister is talking about with the individual robots being too big. They look fantastic as a lone group, alright with MP but they really are way too big to feel "right" with a Generations lineup. I would've liked a "large deluxe"-ish size for each of them (with Long Haul maybe coming out to a regular-to-large-Voyager), which I imagine wouldn't have been to hard since they're their own molds that don't have to fit into pre-existing size classes, but oh well.

He's still a fantastic toy though, and I wouldn't say he counts as overrated - he really does deserve most of the praise that gets heaped at him and if you find that most people have one gripe with Devy, it's the size (UW at least; CW has its own flaws which, again, people tend to be quite quick to acknowledge). Something can be considered great in spite of a flaw and not be overrated - it's only if something is considered great, because those saying so are ignoring vital flaws, that I think it becomes so. (Just my own definition as I see it of course. I may or may not have an obsession with trying to constantly define terms as accurately as possible. )

Wow, I'm pretty shocked by the inclusion of MP-10 as even an "honorable mention" on this list. It's easily the best representation of G1 cartoon Optimus Prime we've ever had, so of course people like it a lot! Yes, it has some flaws, but to me, MP-1 had even more. MP-1 had VERY wonky proportions and the truck mode looked really funky. MP-10's cab is pretty flawless. The trailer bed is, of course, just his robot legs and pelvis, but such is pretty much the lot of EVERY G1 Optimus Prime. Attaching the trailer proper hides most of that. I don't really mind the "hole" behind the clear yellow plastic in the pelvis of MP-10 either.

I feel similarly about MP-11 Starscream and company too. They're easily the best we have for representations of the G1 characters. There are some flaws, yes, but I don't see them when they're standing on my shelf. Unlike my Classics/Generations figures, I don't really play with my Masterpiece figures at all. They're less toys and more high-end collectors items that you can carefully convert between two different modes for different display options. They're not meant to be "played with," IMO.

I think a great idea for a future list might be "top Transformers that people expect too much from." Basically, what Transformers are great but maybe get knocked for things like "faux kibble" for a compromise or two in design when, realistically, having a "perfect" version would be practically impossible.

I registered mainly to comment this article.

I'm so happy to see somebody who thinks the same as me on CW Megatron.
At some point I thought I was the only one who didn't purchased it.

How about Alpha Bravo? I'm so tired of the rotor on that mold. Using that mold for Spinister with the extra weapons just irritates me since it combines awful targetmaster molds with a mold that can't accommodate them. Then I have to deal with that rotor all over again.

kurthy wrote:How about Alpha Bravo?

How very dare you.

Va'al wrote:

kurthy wrote:How about Alpha Bravo?

How very dare you.

i have to agree
hes a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad... you get the ideA

ExciKaiser wrote:I registered mainly to comment this article.

I'm so happy to see somebody who thinks the same as me on CW Megatron.
At some point I thought I was the only one who didn't purchased it.

Thank you so much for writing in, my eyes are getting all watery.

Optimum Supreme wrote:Too few steps? Then go play with an alternator aka frustratonator. It's not like it autotransforms or just gets stood up. It looks good in both modes, and has enough steps to get between them without any unneeded weirdness.

We have moved a long way from Alternators. Just look at Ultra Magnus, the other Leader that came out at the same time as Megatron. there were many steps, but nothing was needless and it was fun intuitive and made for a great looking robot. And with MPs, many need those extra steps to work with the kibble they have and refine the look. There could have been some extra steps on Megs to help with the proportions and look of the figure, like flaps to fold up kibble and give it a different look. Stuff like that.

Emerje wrote:So I'm thinking, if visible heads and legs are what makes a figure overrated then what does that say about Classics and Generations Jetfire? Not only are the legs visible, but so are the entire arms and hands on the Classics figure. I realize it's all part of trying to recapture the look of the original figure (which hid the arms away, instead having a visible head), but why is it OK for Jetfire but not OK for the FOC Seekers or Armada Starscream?

Emerje

Wait a sec, people like gen Jetfire? I know they liked classics (especially at the time) but I thought that more recent toy was generally panned due to how hollow it was. I thought i was the only one who liked it.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I see a lot of Alternators hate too. Can't point you to any specific thread.

Thats a great example of toys that were once hot. The secondary market price was quite high once but now it fell due to the MP line taking over that class size.
Although I dont know if that Prime was very liked, I hate that Alternators Prime so damn much.

Because it's meant to be an update of the Armada toy. And if you hate where the arms are on this one, be glad they don't jut out in front like the one it was based on.

Yeah, its hard for me to find it overrated when I have the original and see all the improvements in design they did with this one, especially with articulation.

ScottyP wrote:Anyhow, back on topic, the more I chew on it the more it irks me to see MP-10 mentioned anywhere on here. Closest thing to a perfect depiction of G1 cartoon Optimus ever = overrated?

But on the flip side, is it fair to say a toy is great simply because it is the most g1 looking toy of a character? I remember you really liking that Botcon Ironhide for instance and often saying that it was because it is the best Ironhide for a classics collection. But I dont know anyone else who thinks its a great mold or holds up at all for a classics collection. Of course, MP 10 is a great figure, but we shouldnt ignore its flaws simply because it looks the most like the Prime we want, so far. Just wanted to represent the flip side of the coin. I mean, there was a time when MP 01 was hailed as the best TF toy ever, would you have liked them to stop there?

Zeedust wrote:I think people didn't take to Airachnid because she was such a poor match for her CGI model and she couldn't do that spider mode she was always doing on the cartoon (and was kinda named after).

Fair point! And thats because the order of production changed since in the Cybertron line, the toys were done before while for Prime, the toymakers were stuck having to replicate the show models which wasnt always obvious (as Airachnid proves).

Ironhidensh wrote:Masterpiece Shockwave

This is another figure I was excited for, but felt nothing but disappointment. Masterpiece figures are supposed to be something exceptional, and this one was little more than a slightly updated G1 version. It too seemed to suffer from the silly direction Takara seems to be taking the line in (hyper cartoon accuracy) Shocky was quickly sold. Unfortunately, I'm also not overly fond of the 3rd party offerings for him, so my MP shelf may permanently be lacking a Shockwave.

I too was dissapointed by him but i feel a lot of us are, hence why I didnt feel he was overrated. And I dont think its becasue its a bad toy at all, but its just fairly straight forward and yet was priced quite high. So that combo didnt work too well with me. I still dont really know what they could have done to make him more worthwhile aside from dropping the price

Wolfman Jake wrote: They're not meant to be "played with," IMO.

The seekers definitely give that feeling, yes, especially since they are based on that MP 03 mold which really felt more like a showiece figure at the time. What blows though is that since then we have gotten MP toys which can be played with and have quicker and less finicky transformations like MP 10 and the cars (especially Wheeljack) so you end up with MP toys that feel like they can be played with more than others, which is a bit too bad (but hey, I guess thats what those Leader seekers are for )